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Quick Gameplay Thoughts: June 20

RiotMeddler··1 votes·58,516 views

Hey all,


Usual Disclaimers

These posts will often contain talk about future work we're doing, or planning to do, that isn't yet guaranteed to ship. The nature of the work could change or, depending on what we discover, projects mentioned may get put delayed or even stopped. If you'd like to see a Tweet whenever a new one of these posts goes up: https://twitter.com/RiotMeddler


Rek'Sai

We've got some follow up changes for Rek'Sai in testing, though a bunch of them will be pretty hard to datamine. Mainly bug fixes and useability, though we're also testing an AD ratio buff on the ult, belief being that's still underperforming a bit versus where it should be.

Q - does a better job of spell queueing W - Standardized unburrow time for W reactivation versus right click (right click was slightly slower), knockback for secondary targets now clears the CC properly on knockback end (was lingering sometimes) R - Ratio 1.6 -> 1.85, CD updates properly for allies, visual effects clean up.


Ezreal

Ez looks pretty weak at the moment. Some of that makes sense with the current meta, state of items in particular, which aren't so favorable to him. Something we'll want to consider before buffing him however is whether this is finally the time to do some work on his W, make it a more satisfying spell. Lot of value from doing that, main downside is that we've got some other small updates in the queue already (Azir, LB being the main two). Would be looking for a W that had interesting skill expression, still felt right thematically for Ezreal and didn't remove gameplay or intended weaknesses from him (so not just W affecting minions or W removing the skilltest on who E hits for example).


Rift Herald

Rift Herald looks to be in a pretty good space still. We'll be making a slight buff most likely in the next patch however, increasing the gold reward for the kill from 25g to 100g. Goal there is to put a bit more power in for taking the camp in the first place, bringing up the baseline value a little even if you don't get much out of the summon itself (e.g. if your team's behind and can't support the push well). Also puts a bit more reward in for the jungler (usually) specifically.


Inhib Tower XP

We'll also be removing the XP inhib towers give at present in an upcoming patch. We removed most tower XP a while back, but looks like we missed that specific case. It's not a major impact, but it's a bit of extra snowball, that won't be appreciated or played around, in a situation where one team's already getting themselves into a powerful position (they've taken an inhib tower). Snowball's got its place, good play should increase your chance of winning after all, but we still want it to be at the appropriate levels, clear, satisfying etc.


Xayah

Small bit of follow up on Xayah coming in the next patch too, with her Q lockout now reducing with the amount of attack speed she's got. The lockout looks like it's having the appropriate impact in lane, but longer than needed later in the game.


Death Sounds

Shortly, most likely in 7.14, we'll be testing out updated sounds for nearby allied and enemy champion deaths, aiming to make those a bit more distinct so team fights especially are easy to track. Bunch more details on those coming in the next week or two, feedback then much appreciated as to how clear they are/how they sound in general.

243 Comments

Slyx the Rat23 votes

Hi Meddler,

TwitchTwitch is out of the line for a long time so far. Im just curious: Is he even on the radar? Any thoughts? I dont like it if he is too strong.

Thanks in advance! :)

RiotMeddler11 votes

He's on watch, don't currently have nerfs in for him or nerfs planned for the coming patch at least though.

Cosnirak11 votes

I highly suggest making his ult not work with Runaan's Hurricane. You should have to work to line up shots that hit a lot of people, not just get a MF ult that you can constantly reposition and move between shots of.

KANYE OBAMA GOD1 votes

His ult doesnt work with Runaan's, it just extends the range of the bolts the same way RFC and Caitlyn traps do.

Cosnirak2 votes

So what you're saying is... it works with Runaan's.

SirJonjo2 votes

What he is saying is that runaan's extends the range on twitch's ult. He still only fires 1 bolt but runaan's fires the other two, just like it would with a normal auto attack. If you don't like that it's not his ult that needs to be changed its runaan's, and affecting runaan's would cause a lot of other problems.

sayhisam13 votes

I think that Twitch's early game is a bit too strong at the moment; However, I believe this is mainly due to three factors:

  1. Other strong earlygame adcs were nerfed (lucian, cait, and jhin)

  2. Doran's shield allows for incredibly passive laning

  3. BotRK and IE were buffed significantly

The most I would do would be to hit his E damage or Q steroid (make it scale more) so his spike is delayed. I wouldn't touch his lategame though; It's what makes playing Twitch so fun.

Comrad Black9 votes

...Could we get one of these with more info on tanks? Or top lane meta/balance in general?

Not to repeat myself too much, but It just feels bad to be sold a huge pitch about how midseason would be amazing for game health and balancability, then follow up work takes the form of incremental damage buffs. Not better in-lane access to skillful parts of their kit, or tuning to improve itemization flexibility so an entire type of champion doesn't live and die by the state of Sunfire, just damage buffs.

It's not a very fun time to be a tank/bruiser.

Chønklord2 votes

Don't bother asking about serious balance or gameplay update concerns; it's quite clear Meddler and other Rioters cherry-pick what/who they want to respond to, as evidenced by my comment down below being close to first posting, and it's just completely flat out ignored.

There's no literal possiblity that Meddler didn't, at the very least, scan my comment (now or previously) -- Meanwhile, single sentence "easy" questions are randomly answered in real-time in front of my face.

It's like if you had someone shouting and waving their hands next to you and instead of just acknowledging their presence, you greeted random passerby's.

It's a real slap in the face to someone who has genuine concerns and also possible ideas/suggestions. Even a simple "Thanks, we've received your suggestions and comments", would be appreciated; if only out of simple courtesy.

Sir Nope7 votes

They're called "Quick Gameplay Thoughts" for a reason. This isn't a lengthy debate he's having here, he's scanning the questions and answering the ones he knows the answers to because that's probably all the time he has for. I'd love to see some of the questions here answered more thoroughly, but this thread is not the place for a good chunk of them.

Chønklord4 votes

I understand that; I'm not asking for a debate from Meddler/Riot -- I'm asking for a quick, short answer (if possible); hence why I laid out my concerns in as detailed and an organized manner as I could, to provide clear context to my question and facilitate their responses.

It's not my first post on the subject -- it's a copypasta from a month ago when they announced the new rune system -- yet every single Rioter has systematically either outright ignored or did not bother to read my post.

As I've said multiple times, I'd be happy with even a simple "yes we've seen your post/comments".

It feels like a slap in the face because with this "quick gameplay" post, I managed to chance upon it the moment it was posted, quickly found my comments and pasted it in. There's no way Meddler didn't at least glance at it -- it's not that easy to miss, you know -- yet other comments directly after mine were immediately replied to.

As a long time player/customer who cares greatly about the future of League, I've invested not only a lot of time and money, but energy into trying to be useful in my limited capacity as a singular voice -- through offering what I can in the way of my own insights, ideas and creativity for Riot to make free use of, if they find any merits within them.

RiotMeddler12 votes

If you can give me a short version of the post I'll be able to give you a quick answer. When there are dozens of different things being asked about it's a really large time demand to respond to such a post in a way that doesn't just skip most of it.

TLDR: Short posts are much more likely to get answers.

Chønklord2 votes

Very well then.

Q1: Will we still have some sort of granular control over base stats? Either through runes or some other means. Current system obviously has limitations and lacks that in-game "visual 'oomph'", but we still get 9x runes and 3x quints of everything.

Q2: Will there be any major base stat modifier runes transitioned over, such as AD/AS/AP, MS/MR/HP; Scaling or Flat, etc? If so, will they be the same now just in "bigger chunks" (i.e. instead of 9x runes giving 8.5AD, having 2x runes give 8.5AD)?

Q3: Will off-meta playstyles/builds be taken into consideration with the new system? E.g. On-hit/Tank Teemo (needs a lot of upfront early resistances and scaling hp); full crit dmg runes on Jhin/Panth; Spellvamp Karthus JG; stuff like that?

Q4: Is there anyone or place where one can submit keystone rune concepts for the team to look at and maybe get inspiration from? If not, would you be open to providing such a avenue?

Q5: Followup Is there a better way to be noticed / get in contact with you and other higher ups than the boards/reddit, and/or is Riot open to input from individuals in the community that may have valid suggestions or interesting concepts to work with?

Q6: Finally, any thoughts on Rammus' W slow being reduced from 60% to something more manageable like 30%, or scaled per level or even removed altogether? He feels very..... asinine to play with when his whole identity revolves around going fast and sticking to players, yet completely dismantles that playstyle with the aggressive W slow which literally makes him crawl on the rift.


Thank you for replying and for your time. Feel free to answer all or some of my Q's, as your time permits. Much appreciated.

RiotMeddler23 votes

We've got different definitions of short. Few responses though since you've trimmed down a fair amount:

  • There'll still be some ways of modifying starting stats, through runes that give stats in some form, probably additional starting items etc. Some champs will also have their base stats or rank 1 abilities adjusted to ensure they still feel right and are balanced.

  • There'll be a lot of runes that enable off meta playstyles. Those won't necessarily be the same identical off meta playstyles as today though, with different content supporting new ones and likely not covering at least the more obscure old ones. On hit builds should have stuff they can spec into for example that helps them out, both offensively and defensively. With more specific stuff, like Spellvamp Jungle Karthus, I'd expect there'll be things that help Karthus jungle, though they won't necessarily be the exact same tools (e.g. could be other forms of survivability/sustain rather than starting spell vamp for example)

  • Posts on the Boards or Reddit are your best bets if trying to get discussion going with Rioters. We generally prefer to keep discussion public, both because the community often helps filter good ideas from bad and because there's a lot more benefit in having a conversation others can read too. Topics in question are normally of interest to a range of other people too.

AMYS GRAVE14 votes

You are a patient man Meddler, thanks for continuing to do these things.

TeCoolMage6 votes

...I look up to you now because my post would've been:

That's not short.

RenanRein7 votes

Any thoughts on Sivir? She feels very unsatisfied to play on soloq.

PaperNay6 votes

Rek'Sai - is it intended that her Q auto attacks do not stack Energized Attacks?

RiotMeddler6 votes

Nope, if that's happening it's a bug. We'll get it fixed.

Zykklon B5 votes

When can we expect Singed buffs?

He is so weak and with that Righteous glory change made him even worse then before

RiotMeddler4 votes

Probably still something in 7.13.

IxtaliKing5 votes

Hey Meddler, 2 questions:

  1. If you update Ezreal's W, would you also give him a visual update to accompany it?

  2. Someone on the boards claimed a few days ago that in a 2016 twitch stream, that you and Ghostcrawler said you were saving Karma for a full rework next year, is this true?

RiotMeddler4 votes

We wouldn't be doing a full visual update on Ezreal no, this would be something more like the Rek'Sai update by the Live Gameplay team, not a full overhaul.

We don't have a full Karma rework scheduled or planned at present no. Think there are reasonable odds we do some smaller work, but give we only get to do around 5 full reworks a year we think there are other champs in more need than Karma.

EROTIC RAID BOSS2 votes

Hell I think ezreal needs it more than karma if only for the visuals. Or almost anyone.

RiotMeddler5 votes

I'd agree with that, though then argue there are other champs (Nunu for example) who need both visual and gameplay work even more.

IxtaliKing5 votes

I'd definitely agree that Karma doesn't need another VGU. For the smaller work I really hope we don't have to wait for too long. Thanks for the reply :)

CrabPeopleReform5 votes

dear meddler item 3812 Draven please say your opinion ty ty ty ty ty ty

Sw4de5 votes

What is the role of an assassin? They can't teamfight and bruisers are better split pushers, none of them have any place in the game except snowballing on bad players on the enemy team, if you dont get a bunch of kills all assassins are just straight up bad champions with no clear role in the game, they need some strength that isnt "punish bad players", it's why we almost never see a balanced assassin in competitive play, you can't rely on getting fed on bad players in competitive, and they have no other real strengths that they bring to a team. The assassin rework added counterplay to their only strength and didnt give them any clear role in the game.

SecondComing5 votes

Nothing on Garen? You seem to have buffs incoming for every single top laner (and others already in a good spot) while leaving him dead last to struggle

DarkPh0enix5 votes

Meddler, when i asked you some time ago about Rengar and Garen updates you said that while nothing was planned for Rengar, you were planning to work on something for Garen.

"Could be soon, could be world's patch".

World's patch is approaching if I recall correctly, any updates?

ChargeItDownMid4 votes

[deleted]

RiotMeddler6 votes

Likely stuff in 7.14 or 7.15.

AmenPerson3 votes

I want my big boy Cho'Gath to return to the good ol' days of being a powerful and large beast. Thank you for giving me knowledge that you guys are at least looking at him.

Spideraxe3 votes

Hey Meddler can I ask for what Reav3 is planning on putting in his blog post and when it will come out?

RiotMeddler7 votes

Bit of talk about upcoming VGUs, few thoughts on new champs, an update on class updates. Should be pretty soon, not sure of exact day though.

Shadow Hazard1 votes

If it is possible would you be able to ask him to include something about what the thoughts are for what is being considered for the jungle?

RiotMeddler3 votes

It's a blog looking at new champs and champion updates, so systems like the jungle won't be covered there.

Shadow Hazard2 votes

I just saw the post. I only asked because the new rune system is going to force a drastic need to update the jungle/junglers. Also I was assuming that the diver update was the next thing on the block and with a drastic majority of them being junglers it was a good timing to kill 2 birds with one stone.

RiotMeddler4 votes

No details yet, we'll definitely be making changes though to at the very least jungle items, and probably jungle camps/individual champs, so that jungling still works appropriately post Runes changes.

Sir Nope3 votes

Hey Meddler, any word on the possible fifth dargon that was being discussed a few months back?

RiotMeddler3 votes

Still a possible next year thing, as per previous discussion definitely not this year (Runes work's taking most of our pre-season focus).

Ars3lyn3 votes

there was such a thing? can i get a link to that please?

Aisle3 votes

Didn't you say last week that you'll be sharing some new info on Runes Reforged this week? Is that still happening?

Sersch3 votes

On Ezreal: wouldnt it be time to give some love to item 3004 ? Ezreal is pretty much the only champ using it so right now a manamune buff might make it more interesting for other champions without breaking ezreal as the plan is to slightly buff him either way.

SlasyMcSlashton3 votes

Hey Meddler what is your current thought on the state of Fiora ?

She seems very strong but with a high skill ceiling, but at the same time seems hard to punish a lot of the time. Have you considered nerfing or tweaking her numbers at all? I think that she is for the most part a fair champion other than two things-- mana costs and healing from passive. her abilities are very strong and have a lowish mana cost and it seems to be trending in nerfs of champions to be hit in their mana costs (e.g. Lucian Q). There is also the issue of so much lifesteal in her kit which already plays well into her items. i dont know where i'm exactly going with this, but is there any possible changes for her?

Mad Hit Monkey3 votes

Woah woah woah! Meddler, dude, what are these Singed changes on the PBE?

I MEAN. Thanks for buffs and all, but everyone on /r/SingedMains, myself included, are in agreement that these changes pale in comparison to the changes we briefly saw on the 7.12 cycle! Which were giant steps in the right direction!

How do these reward Singed players for being Singed?

DuckyDoom3 votes

Hello, Riot

I just got an idea for removing confusion during champ select in Draft Pick, the confusion wherte people don't know if they clicked rank or normal so just an add up during champ select says normal or rank game would be pretty cool and useful for people you forgot the game type they chooseà

--DuckyDoom--

Shahamut2 votes

any updates on Yasuo changes?

gtechbaek2 votes

Can you guys somehow rework some of Chogath abilities? His Q is sooooo unreliable since it's so hard to land one on a champion due to the windup animation and the long cast time. Also, he's a bit too squishy in my opinion

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