Patch Chat with Playtest Team - 6.14 (Ryze, Leona, Sona, and more)

RiotSkarnye West··1 votes·114,735 views

Welcome back to Patch Chat!

I’m Gentleman Gustaf, and here with me is Riot’s Playtest Team, a group of high-ranking League players whose job it is to play the hell out of things and give actionable objective feedback to designers. Think of us as your high-Elo friends who happen to have played the new patch, rework, or champion long before it ever came out.

Every two weeks (concurrent with the release of patch notes), we’re going to be hosting a discussion here on Dev Corner. Take this opportunity to ask us any questions about how we feel about the game or what it's like to work as a Riot playtester.

**Curious about the Ryze rework? ** Ben “Cezium” Burkhardt and Blake “S0be” Soberanis have been figuring out how to best use the new Ryze Ultimate, and we'd love to share success cases - and horror stories.

**Want to know how new Leona or Sona feel? ** Have any questions about how we feel about the most recent patch? Check out the Patch Notes and ask us any questions you have about the new feel of updated champions!

We will be around for the next few hours and will try to answer as many questions as possible.

Additionally, ex LCS pros and current playtesters Miles “Daydreamin” Hoard and Nicolas “Gleeb” Haddad will be streaming Wednesday, 6/29 from 6PM to 9 PM PDT, so if you want to join them for custom games, or just continue the discussion there, tune in to the stream tomorrow!

Adam "Afic" Cohen Preston “Hinder” Bunker Ben “Cezium” Burkhardt Shawn “I Am The IRS” Currie Don “Aesah” Ding Nicolas “Gleeb” Haddad Dan “Penguin” Hardison Miles “Daydreamin” Hoard Bao “Bao” Lam Robert “RobertxLee” Lee Nicholas “Nickwu” Smith Blake “S0be” Soberanis Trevor “ThEntropist” Thernes

318 Comments

Yuumi or Lose9 votes

Will Heimer potentially see another rework or changes? Maybe at least to his passive? I wish I could see Heimer played in tournament. :(

imVash4 votes

Heimer has been in the gutter for a while.

Bao4 votes

AFAIK -- I haven't seen any changes or reworks planned yet (you can checkout the list here: https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/202294884-Champion-Update-Schedule)

That being said, from time to time, we DO have small reworks/Quality of Life changes that can affect play-patterns/balance for champions.

It's not a no... but for right now, it's not on our docket... sorry to disappoint :(

Seyunx2 votes

Wait yoricks update is listed BEFORE the assassin update? Am I dreaming?

Riotplaytestpenguin2 votes

Nope, you're not dreaming! Yorick is definitely supposed to be earlier than assassins -- more people just like talking about assassins.

Vaydrin8 votes

Wait, whats a yorick?

Utility Veigar6 votes

Speaking of turrets, is Ohmwrecker actually getting changes or will it finally be removed like it should have been long ago?

FAR CRY DREAM6 votes

Hello to you guys.

Would like to chat with you outside of this specific patch. You guys have been working hard with class updates, new champs and reworks. There is alot of new stuff in the game. I personally feel like I haven't been able to keep up with everything ( specifically I have a hard time with the ad items and to understand which one benefits you also depending on the champion ofc ). I am assuming other players especially low elo ones have that problem too. So I noticed some people have been asking about a good tutorial from Riot. I was wondering that too lately, have you guys thought about taking a short break from all this huge content and focusing on a good tutorial for all players sometime in the future, tutorials on objective control and items etc, I would guess that would help the entire player base, all the different elos, in general alot.

Cheers to you guys.

RiotS0bey9 votes

That's an interesting topic.

On one hand I like the idea that we could offer players some basic way to guide them if they want help, particularly with more of the arcane stuff like itemization, build order, runes, and masteries.

On the other hand I don't think most players want us telling them what to build and how to play, and there is a massive wealth of LoL guides out there to help players (although it can be a pain trying to delve into that mess and find a good guide, especially if you're not already familiar with the topic of the guide eg. only a good Kayle player will be able to recognize a good Kayle guide while a noob might not be able to tell the difference between the two).

Ultimately the decision of whether or not we create Riot supported guides for things like itemization, objective control etc is not up to our team (Playtest) but I like the thought behind your idea and think players could benefit from such a thing.

EROTIC RAID BOSS6 votes

You know what i think would be good is a few more tutorials or at least one when you unlock smite. Have some bots that leash for you, you pick one of 3 easy junglers, and get walked through a first clear with explanations on what smiting each monster does. It would also be nice to do without the tips to practice a first clear on a new champ you've gotten

Jungling was one topic that I really needed to ask my friend to explain very in depth when I started playing, there's a lot of upfront knowledge needed

Myrlian4 votes

I believe that although it's a good idea, Riot is unlikely to be willing/able to do something like this very soon. Riot isn't going to stop changing the game, one of the reasons it stays popular and fun for most of us is that it's almost a new game every two weeks, and once or twice a year it changes substantially. In order to make guides or tutorials they would have to assign a fairly large team to maintaining them with every update. They are barely keeping up with updating the recommended item pages for each champion when something changes substantially. There are guides out there that are helpful, and as SoBE mentioned the good ones aren't always easy to find but you can always try more than one until you find something that works for you. There are also a lot of video's out there to help with basics.

In regard to the "new" AD items, I can give a quick rundown:

items that build off of Zeal: (All Zeal items increase attack speed, crit, and movement speed, the exact amounts vary by item)

RFC (Rapid Firecannon): This zeal item builds up a charge, when fully charged it increases your max attack range for a single attack, this attack also does bonus damage. RFC in my opinion is somewhat over rated. But there are times when that extra range can be exactly what you need. Statikk Shiv: This zeal item builds up a charge like RFC, but it doesn't affect your attack range. When Statikk Shiv reaches full charge it releases a burst of AOE damage. This AOE damage can crit, and does extra damage to minions. Shiv is the best zeal item for AD champs that need extra wave clear. Runaan's Hurricane: (ranged only!) Causes your auto attacks to also hit two additional targets for 25% of your base damage, effectively increasing your auto attack damage by 50%. This Zeal item is intended to provide maximum aoe damage during team fights, it is most effective on champions that have an "on hit" effect like Kog'maw with w active, Ashe with Ranger's focus active, kindred with... stacks, Jinx with rockets active, it will apply poison from Twitch and Teemo. PD (Phantom Dancer): This is the "dueling" Zeal item, it provides the most benefit in 1v1 scenarios, it provides the least movement speed of all the zeal items except when close (550 range) to an enemy at which point it provides the most movement speed of all the zeal items, it also makes you take 15% less damage from the last person you auto attacked.

Blood thirster still provides the most life steal. Infinity edge still provides increased crit damage. Death's Dance provides 15% health back on physical damage, and converts 15% of incoming damage into damage over time. It's an interesting item but I only use it in certain cases. Essence Reaver is the main item to build for CDR and mana regen for AD champions, it gives crit, and requires building more crit to reach full potential, so it's mostly good on champions that are going to build IE (if you're going to build crit, might as well make the most of it) and at least one Zeal item. Blade of the Ruined King hasn't really changed much, it still helps against champions who stack a lot of health.

The newest AD item is Duskblade of Draktharr, it's intended for assassins, but it provides a good amount of AD and flat armor pen, I will often build it instead of a last whisper item against a team with no real tanks. Youmuu's Ghost blade also provides damage and flat armor pen, with 10% cdr and a nice attack speed and movement speed active with a fairly short cool down.

Black Cleaver is a good mix of offense and defense with stacking armor pen and 20% cdr, it's good if you want cdr on an AD champ but don't need crit. Or if you want a more defensive armor pen item.

I didn't think about just how much there is to cover. There's also Maw of Malmortius, Mortal Reminder and Lord Dominik's Regards

Maw provides some defense against being burst down by AP champions, plus AD and flat armor pen.

Lord Dominik's Regards (LDR) is the go to item to allow you to do damage to tanks. Mortal Reminder builds off of Last Whisper and Executioner's Calling and is the item you want to counter insane life steal and healing (ie vlad/swain/soraka/aatrox)

I haven't even covered Trinity Force, Iceborn Gauntlet, sterak's gage, Frozen mallet, Ravenous Hydra, Titanic Hydra... but I've spent way too much time on this already, good luck, have fun!

warpenguin5554 votes

Who is more crazy, the new champ(that thingin the bush) or the ryze rework. Reworked ryze is looking pretty crazy

RiotRiot Afic20 votes

the new champ is literally crazier

warpenguin5557 votes

gasp new champ info XD

RiotSkarnye West12 votes

I haven't played recent iterations of the new champion, but I played with them on my team recently and enjoyed the hell out of the experience. To be fair, I enjoy very specific things about LoL

TacoBrain2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Gentleman Gustaf,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=HRveja4e,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2016-07-12T20:31:42.713+0000)

I haven't played recent iterations of the new champion, but I played with them on my team recently and enjoyed the hell out of the experience. To be fair, I enjoy very specific things about LoL

Could you tell us who's designing him?

DwarvenGiant3 votes

Riot Harrow is the technical designer (He confirmed it on stream with Scarizard a month ago). He actually used to be a Narrative Writer but switched to Champ Design sometime in the past year and few months.

Stories he contributed to, at the time, are of (old) Hecarim, Jayce, Aatrox and slightly to Kalista's.

Crazed Bunniez2 votes

so the champ is LITERALLY crazier does that mean he is crazier than jinx or is that too far?

RiotSkarnye West11 votes

[slayer-jinx-wink]

ScrubLordSarah3 votes

This is more a general question than a "patch 6.14" question, but I'll ask it anyway...I am a Bronze 5 player, and I was wondering how you can find your way out of bronze. It seems like a really difficult place to be because it's where all the~~ trolls ~~are and all the people who aren't very experienced are. I have played with many Anivia trolls (playing on my team, putting walls in front of me when I am about to get a kill, putting a wall on me as I'm teleporting, etc.). I also wonder, when patch 6.14 comes out, will Ryze become a big threat to lower elo players? [slayer-jinx-catface] Ty for any answers guys!

RiotS0bey11 votes

1.) Best way out of Bronze 5? Get all the cs. ALL THE CS. Kill gold may look appealing, but the real power comes from creep gold. Get those last hits!

2.) I'm not 100% sure how Ryze will affect low elo games, but in my experience he's been quite hard to master as he's much more combo based and much less faceroll-on-the-keyboard based. You have to think hard about what spells you use and in what order you cast them to be most effective. That being said his basic combos are intuitive and powerful (weaving Q's between every spellcast type stuff), so I think he'll do well at Bronze but I doubt he'll be a freelo monster.

Bao7 votes

I don't think there is an "easy" way to climb elo at all... a lot of times, people are very very close to their true elos so they are probably losing ~50% of their games. If you are actually better than your elo by a significant amount, you'll naturally climb over a large portion of games.

The easy ways to improve are to pick comfort champions, even if their are "counterpicks". I've found that players at low elo will try to "counterpick" and find themselves on an uncomfortable champion, instead of being able to put themselves on a comfort pick with a higher win rate.

There are millions of ways to "improve", as long as you try to play with a positive attitude and continually be critical of your play, you'll improve!

When Patch 6.14 comes out, I don't think Ryze will be "super OP in low elo" or anything, I think players will find adjusting to him a bit difficult, but will play him regardless because he is super fun.

Hellioning2 votes

Isn't Sona just gonna OOM herself every teamfight late game? It's like they're wanting us to build tear...

RiotRiot Afic3 votes

Late game she can realistically have enough mana items to make it a lot less of a problem. In testing it hasn't been an issue thus far

Hellioning1 votes

What mana items can she even build, though? Lich bane? Everything that's good on her is a mana regen item, which isn't gonna help you in the course of a teamfight.

Quepha3 votes

{quoted}

What mana items can she even build, though? Lich bane? Everything that's good on her is a mana regen item, which isn't gonna help you in the course of a teamfight.

What makes the most sense to me is athene's for support sona and morello -> lichbane for "support" sona. In addition to the mana they give you incredibly valuable cdr and either the AP or utility you want.

Hellioning2 votes

Yeah, but again: That's mana regen, not mana.

Quepha3 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, but again: That's mana regen, not mana.

how does that not count?

FAR CRY DREAM4 votes

I am not a Sona player but I have played against her often. Is it just me or is this champion unfair? I don't quite understand these buffs. Her only skillshot is her ult which hardly misses, it's incredibly frustrating to deal with her unless you have an adc and support that push really hard. Would like to hear from other players, though fair comments.

RiotSkarnye West21 votes

[{quoted}](name=FAR CRY DREAM,realm=EUW,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=HRveja4e,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2016-07-12T20:44:26.863+0000)

I am not a Sona player but I have played against her often. Is it just me or is this champion unfair? I don't quite understand these buffs. Her only skillshot is her ult which hardly misses, it's incredibly frustrating to deal with her unless you have an adc and support that push really hard. Would like to hear from other players, though fair comments.

[{quoted}](name=FAR CRY DREAM,realm=EUW,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=HRveja4e,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2016-07-12T20:44:26.863+0000)

Her only skillshot is her ult which hardly misses

[{quoted}](name=FAR CRY DREAM,realm=EUW,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=HRveja4e,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2016-07-12T20:44:26.863+0000)

her ult hardly misses

You've never seen my Sona :(

elzipoika6 votes

[deleted]

Faceroll Tactics23 votes

{quoted}

My usual build with sona is: item 3092 item 3117 item 3504 item 3222 item 3174, then something likeitem 3285 or item 3100 for some damage

item 2049 item 2049 item 2049 item 2049 item 2049 item 2049 item 2049 item 2049 item 2049 item 2049 item 2049 item 2049 item 2049 item 2049 item 2049 item 2049 item 2049 item 2049 item 2049 item 2049 item 2049 item 2049 item 2049 item 2049 item 2049 item 2049 item 2049 item 2049 item 2049 item 2049

elzipoika2 votes

[deleted]

Faceroll Tactics6 votes

You can only have one pink ward on the map at one time, there is no reason not to build sightstone.

Thrésh Princé7 votes

You talk about how they don't understand Sona support, yet you don't build a Sightstone... I feel like you're the one that doesn't quite understand support.

Vision is key, if you see enemy team all 5 at Drake, free Baron. See enemy jungler at his buff, your jungler steals his other. Also good for keeping vision of the river so you know if the enemy mid is roaming/jungler is ganking.

If you just want to output damage then support isn't for you. Take her to the mid lane, because lack of vision costs games.

Riotplaytestpenguin4 votes

I played Sona with these changes and she mostly plays the same with the exception of when she gets a ton of items -- she tends to be basically another AP Carry if she gets rolling really well.

coniciua2 votes

What would 1 gold per SECOND increase do to the game ? By minute 20 you have 1200 so a component item, and seems like it will speed up the game a bit and make relevant some late game champs , please a answear ? :D

RiotS0bey29 votes

It would throw the Runeterran economy into COMPLETE AND UTTER CHAOS

Sad Toymaker6 votes

^^ This is exactly why I like you guys

Rimi2 votes

Is 5 seconds really enough to get off all the autos at rank 3 for Leona?

RiotS0bey21 votes

Auto attacking refreshes the duration of the buff, so you have 5 seconds between each auto attack to hold onto your incandescence stacks

Lord Desert2 votes

Have you done playtests on TT?

RiotRiot ThEntropist4 votes

Our team focuses on changes for SR each patch.

TerraRising2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot ThEntropist,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=HRveja4e,comment-id=001e0000,timestamp=2016-07-13T01:31:07.095+0000)

Our team focuses on changes for SR each patch.

So... Twisted Treeline is the new Dominion, the map that the company ignores because it's not Summoner's Rift? RIP Treeline...

RiotRiot ThEntropist7 votes

"new" is an interesting choice because Playtest, to my knowledge, has never tested anything but SR. However, just because our individual team does not focus on this map, does not mean that other teams are not. For example I know the balance team took a look last patch.

Sakuri Ono1 votes

You're unfamiliar with your own company's history then. Please go research Rioters Nome then ManWolfAxeBoss circa 2012-2013.

Not only was there a group (albeit small) SPECIFICALLY devoted to Dominion-only changes but they also pushed what used to be our top MMR players through with priority passes onto the PBE to have those changes also tested by them.

Wobly1 votes

What situations do you find yourself using the new Ryze ult in? The reveal said it something about it being used more often mid-fight than to engage; how do you utilize it effectively during a fight?

Riotvo1d seeker9 votes

{quoted}

What situations do you find yourself using the new Ryze ult in? The reveal said it something about it being used more often mid-fight than to engage; how do you utilize it effectively during a fight?

From the games I've played with it, it was most commonly used to initiate fights and position divers behind enemy lines. It can also function well as a team wide escape mid fight or a tool to out rotate the enemy team for free turrets. The coolest way I've seen it utilized though was pairing it with Sivir and Taric ult so that a super fast invincible death squad suddenly appeared next to the enemy team's carries.

Apostasial1 votes

I'm not sure if I'm allowed to ask this but is there any details you can give us (the community) about the new champion (the bush one)?

RiotRiot ThEntropist19 votes

You're more than allowed to ask.

I'm just not allowed to answer :D

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