Patch Chat with Playtest - Comet Dragon

RiotSkarnye West··1 votes·116,348 views

Hey all,

Welcome back to Patch Chat! We’re Riot’s Playtest Team, a group of high ranking League players whose job it is to play the hell out of things (lane tests, competitive testing, etc) and give actionable, objective feedback to designers.

Every two weeks (concurrent with the release of patch notes), we’re going to be hosting a discussion here on the state of balance on the current patch. Take this opportunity to ask us any questions about the state of the game.

Today, we’re here with Miles “Daydreamin” Hoard, to talk about playing a roaming mid, and Ben “Cezium” Burkhardt, our resident Aurelion Sol expert.

**Miles, roaming mids like Twisted Fate find consistently higher success as the level play goes up. What do you think players need to know to decide to roam instead of staying in lane? **

It’s all about risk assessment. Can you leave lane without losing out on too much CS or do you risk the enemy mid taking your turret? You just have to identify windows of opportunity. > If you have pressure in your lane, you need to shove out your wave before roaming. Set up vision denial with pinks on the sides of mid. That way you can see if your path to another lane is clear, and you know you won’t be spotted the moment you leave mid.

**What do you look for in a champion when deciding whether to roam or not? **

Any high mobility kits are great for roaming. By the time they spot you, you should be able to close the distance and force a fight. Your ideal roam champion will also have CC, but mobility is the more important of the two, as lanes you roam to often have CC as well.

That being said, there aren’t any “roam only champions” other than maybe Quinn or Twisted Fate, so you don’t really play any differently. Exert as much map pressure as you can when you can, but don’t force yourself into it.

It’s a very high-risk, high-reward playstyle, and if you fall behind in lane, you become a liability since you will have less farm.

**Ben, you probably have the most Comet Dragon games of any LoL player in the world for now. What unique strengths does he bring to the game? **

First and foremost is his ability to roam from level 4 onward, thanks to the high move speed and the ability to use flight to gank from awkward positions and creative angles. He is able to apply pressure to other lanes earlier than just about any other roaming mid.

He also brings early wave clear with his W, which allows him to roam without losing too much farm.

**Let’s say being a giant flying dragon isn’t your thing; what weaknesses does Comet Dragon have to exploit? **

Aurelion Sol is defined by the low - and relatively static - range of his W orbit. Anything that can dash in close will perform well against him. As well, anything that can reposition him (knockbacks) removes the consistency of his damage. Aurelion Sol wants to keep his opponents at a specific range; if they can reposition quickly - or force him to - you lose a lot of your damage output and have to use your mobility to regain it.

Lee Sin absolutely gave me in fits in playtests because his high mobility allowed him to avoid my damage, and the ult knockback destroyed my hard-earned positioning.

**How do you prep for a roam on Aurelion Sol? **

When roaming, I’ll usually do a quick waveclear, hitting both the melee and caster minions with my W. It shouldn’t take more than 2-3 passes early on. After that, I head down the river towards a lane, and halfway there decide what I want to do. If they’re pushed up, it’s time to activate Flight and ruin somebody’s day. Otherwise, you can just turn around and use the movespeed buildup to get back to lane quickly.

**How do you decide which lane to gank? **

Usually bot (insert 4-man bot joke here), but it’s really just a question of which lane is most likely to help your team. Immobile champions are the best to gank, but other games I might roam onto a mobile top laner like Renekton because I know my top Nautilus can set me up with his CC. Keeping your options open and looking for the optimal play before committing is the most important thing. >

**Do you have any cool tips and tricks about playing Aurelion Sol that you’ve picked up over time? **

I like to come in through lane because of how easily I can use flight + Q to land a big stun. Plus, because I’m already flying in the direction they’ll have to run, at worst I’ll end up close to them.

I prefer the skill order W -> E -> Q. The W gives all the damage you need, while the E brings the mobility you need to make plays around the map. Rylai’s is my favorite item because it allows you to kite melee champions for days, or keep them from escaping. The more move speed you get the more reliable you become, so Luden’s Echo is a fantastic early buy on him if you’re snowballing. Add Boots of Swiftness on top of that and nobody is escaping the dragon.

Finally, don’t be afraid to use the ult pretty liberally. It may seem a little underwhelming on paper, but it actually does a little bit of everything. Peel? Check. Chase? Check. Damage? Check. Utility? Check. It’ll knock enemies into your orbs for damage, keep them away from you for survivability, and slow them from a distance so you can close the gap and whittle them down.

Do you have any questions about what it’s like to work as a Riot playtester? As usual, feel free to ask any questions about balance or what exactly our job is! We will be around for the next few hours and will try to answer as many questions as possible.

Adam "Afic" Cohen Ben “Cezium” Burkhardt Isaac “Azael” Cummings-Bentley Shawn “I Am The IRS” Currie Miles “Daydreamin” Hoard Scott “Sickoscott” Hong Mattias “Gentleman Gustaf” Lehman Nicholas “Drecker” Shapiro Nicholas “Nickwu” Smith Blake “Ex Shepherd” Soberanis Trevor “ThEntropist” Thernes

609 Comments

dozerfrelich28 votes

where's taric

RiotRiot Afic111 votes

Between Talon and Teemo in champion select

RiotJordash79 votes

Talon Taric Teemo

Checks out.

Racism Bad31 votes

im not a horrible person so my champ select looks like this: Talon Taric Thresh

ShadowedLucifer17 votes

What are you planning to do to Teemo for this patch? seeing as it's one number off from 6.66.

RiotRiot Afic52 votes

I plan on feeding him to Aurelion Sol. Seems like he would be a delicious dragon snack

kaltenashes16 votes

plot twist teemo's w counters A.Sol

from kitties to kings to stellar dragons, no one can stop teemo...not even buffed irelia

summoner 14 Teemo summoner 14

HomeRegion14 votes

Bring us Taric or riot! (pun intended)

RiotRiot Afic27 votes

Here, have a Taric

HomeRegion14 votes

I hope his new form will be outrageous with all that waitingitem 3070

RiotSkarnye West28 votes

Oh don't worry, it will be.

His dance is definitely top 3 in my favorite champion dances.

Zackeryss6 votes

Will it be as Outrageous as I have dreamed?

RiotJordash17 votes

More outrageous.

ultra boosted12 votes

Coming from a support main, it feels like supports are never on the higher end of the overall power spectrum. Unless you know the person youre vsing is a Janna main, oftentimes bans and priority picks go into champs like Udyr or Zed. Could this be a reason why people find support to be an undesirable position?

RiotSkarnye West14 votes

I think support characters tend to have their impact go less noted. You notice it when Udyr refuses to die or Zed gets a 1v2 double kill, but unless you only play juggernauts you may not notice the consistent impact of Janna (despite her being one of the winningest champions in the game).

I feel the same way about a lot of tanks, and I think it takes a certain type of player to want that feeling.

EDIT: but those who do love that feeling, or at least I do.

RiotJordash7 votes

There's a few things that go into support being an undesirable position for many players, in my opinion. A lot of this comes from my time in the competitive DotA scene, where supports exist on WAY less gold / EXP than they do in League of Legends, so if I sound heavy-handed please keep that in mind.

  1. Support is kind of a thankless job for many; very rarely will people look at a score sheet and see "0/1/14" on a winning team with 20 kills and be like "wow that Braum did work", they'll look at the Riven with 9 kills.

  2. You don't get as much gold, ergo you're not doing as much damage or living as long as others. Your GPM is going to suffer tremendously simply because you're not getting cs and shouldn't be getting kills. You have to do just as much work as the other players on your team with fewer resources to work with.

Retillin7 votes

Why don't the support items have a passive XP gain when supports are lower level than allies?

prohf9 votes

Then laners would buy early support items and be leveling far too quickly, so then you'd have to nerf the stats offered by the items heavily in which case the extra levels don't really mean much unless the champs have high base stats, but if champs have high base stats then they'll just be OP laners.

It's a slippery slope to give items XP boosts

IAmNeverViable12 votes

How about zed oppressive laning phase? Nothing meaningful in decision making. Too safe for the amount of damage and poke he offer.

ModWulf Helhammer7 votes

He's supposed to have a strong laning phase

Sett Me Free UwU25 votes

His energy mechanic makes him have infinite harrass. It often feels like mages deal an underwhelming amount of damage while playing against him due to his ridiculous burst at lvl 3 and 6 with thunderlord's. It really feels unfair that an assassin with such a flexible kit and ranged harrass destroys you often times while missing skills, especially considering the hexdrinker buildpath that makes him baically unkillable to ap champions. There's a difference between a strong laning phase and an oppressive one. item 3070

RiotRiot ThEntropist21 votes

Zed is being looked at for next patch. Currently exploring a few different options like W cooldown increase and Q damage decrease. Nothing set in stone as of yet.

RiotJordash17 votes

We're looking at Zed, specifically his early laning phase. Fear not, hopefully whatever ends up going through will be enough to address a lot of the frustration felt by getting Zed'd pre-6.

he rips dabs9 votes

What do you all plan to do if aurelion sol is too strong (as predicted)?

RiotRiot ThEntropist77 votes

Nerf him.

RiotJordash51 votes

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Best Foxx NA2 votes

Nerfing champions seems to be the go-to way for Rito to handle a lot of things. Do you guys consider buffing over nerfing as a way to balance the game, or nerfing over buffing?

RiotSkarnye West13 votes

I actually don't know if there have been more nerfs than buffs (my guess would be no, or all champions would do 0 damage by now). Our job is to analyze the potential effects of changes more than it is to drive balance (that isn't to say that we don't have an impact on that, merely that it isn't our primary or dominant role).

But here's my two cents as to why nerfs might be more common (or at least perceived as such) than buffs.

#1 - Disproportionate Impact

Overly strong champions have a way of skewing the game more than overly weak champions. If a champion is too strong, they force out champions who do the same thing. They force out champions they counter. They have a huge impact whenever they get picked or they draw an automatic ban.

If a champion is too weak, they just don't show up in all that many games, and if they do, it's probably in the hands of somebody who mains that champion and knows what they're doing enough to make up for their weakness. There is one exception, and that's the case where one champion was the gatekeeper: they were keeping other champions in check. This has happened to a degree with Renekton; his current weakness could be perceived as allowing a number of champions with unhealthy playstyles but relatively weak laning phases to become dominant top laners simply because there are no competent lane bullies to take them down in lane.

#2 - Olaf'd

If a champion has been weak for multiple patches, that tends to be because its playstyle (when strong) was causing significant gameplay problems. In that case, the champion is more worthy of a rework than of a buff.

On the other hand, if a champion has been strong for multiple patches, it hopefully doesn't have a super toxic playstyle (or letting it dominate so long would have been a mistake), so it's more likely to get a simple nerf.

Consider the following game: I ask you to flip a coin. If it's heads, you flip again. If it's tails, you stop. Over time, even though heads and tails are equally likely, you will end up with more tails flips than heads flips.

In other words, buffs and nerfs may be equally likely, but I'd consider it far more likely that a champion's last change was a nerf, because the majority of reworked champions received a nerf last rather than a buff (this may not prove to be true, but it passes my intuition check).

Overall, I think this leads to a perception that Riot prefers nerfs when we actually just want to avoid unhealthy strong champions having a significant impact on an otherwise healthy game state.

SuppsNeedFarmToo8 votes

Illaoi

RiotRiot ThEntropist17 votes

Indeed

BigSquirrell7 votes

A wise choice.

RiotJordash7 votes

Braum

HomeRegion10 votes

Dude, are you shipping them?

Myrkrvaldyr6 votes

I would like to know the reasons why Shyvana's W is getting nerfed hard for the jg. Also, why the nidalee's nerf for the jg. And WHY is Lulu's W getting nerfed a bit? 5 secs speed boost to 4, what's the point of that? Dx

RiotSkarnye West11 votes

In both cases, this is about consistency.

What Lulu does mid-late game isn't inherently broken, but Lulu can get away with not interacting with the enemy lane, which gives her opponents little power to stop her from doing what she wants to do. One big reason for that is the massive amount of lane safety she has thanks to the massive W movement speed buff. Most champions have to choose: hang back in lane and be safe but have less ability to join a gank, or be up far in lane and be gankable. But if Lulu is hanging back, she can use Whimsy to join ganks easily, and if she's far up, she can use Whimsy to escape ganks.

Shyvana's Q (not her W) is getting nerfed for similar reasons; her highs are good to have, but right now it's too easy for her to reach them. In the jungle it's hard to deny her scaling thanks to her incredible clear speed and dueling strength. If you take away the clear speed, you take away her ability to reach her power highs. On the other hand, by taking away her dueling, you merely allow other champions to fight her over her jungle camps. She can still reach her highs, but she has to make sure she's not prevented from reaching them. That's bad and is - in my opinion - the reason we shifted from a W nerf to a Q nerf.

TL;DR you should be able to stop a champion from reaching their highs, and Lulu and Shyvana aren't very interactive thanks to a safe laning phase and a farm-oriented jungle respectively. Opening them up to pressure from other champions secures their highs but gives their opponents to try and prevent them from reaching them.

UnLiT HaRvEsT6 votes

So how about an illaoi buff that make your tentacles only visible if you've seen them before or illaoi is in view. Also make them stay dormant if illaoi isn't visible.

RiotRiot Afic12 votes

I believe illaoi is currently being looked at. Can't share any specifics, but tentacle related changes are certainly a possibility

Kei1434 votes

btw, a question of curiosity and lesser about the patch.

Do you guys have set roles / positions you test in? Or is it like a rotating role and see what works ?

RiotRiot ThEntropist13 votes

We all have different things we are better at but in no way are we all constrained to one role. Personally I play mostly Mid/Jungle/Support and if you want to find out if an ADC is super OP you get me to play it, if I win that shit is broken for sure.

LeagueOfBagel3 votes

you should nerf azir and minion and IIIiol tenticle she should be able to put 3 down at a timeIllaoi Azir

RiotRiot ThEntropist33 votes

I'm not really sure what you are trying to say here.

Kei14319 votes

"Nerf Azir Soldiers and keep Illaoi tentecles at a max of 3"

II ZÉD II3 votes

I was playing Talon earlier today and saw his ultimate dint do a lot of dmg D:Talon please buff just a bit [slayer-jinx-wink]

RiotRiot Afic27 votes

Someone made and linked me this video a while ago. I like hearing stories of Talon NOT doing damage

RiotJordash11 votes

GET COUNTERPLAYED.

Carnicore4 votes

Was that really you? You poor bastard.

RiotRiot Afic14 votes

Let's just say the video was appropriately named

More from Dev Corner

More by Skarnye West