Quick Gameplay Thoughts: December 7

RiotMeddler·Dec 7, 2018·1 votes·151,555 views

Hi folks,

Usual Disclaimers

These posts will often contain talk about future work we're doing, or planning to do, that isn't yet guaranteed to ship. The nature of the work could change or, depending on what we discover, projects mentioned may get delayed or even stopped. If you'd like to see a Tweet whenever a new one of these posts goes up: https://twitter.com/RiotMeddler

8.24b and 9.1 changes on PBE

For the next couple of weeks you'll see a number of changes on the PBE, some of which are candidates for 8.24b (December 18th), some of which will be in 9.1 (early January). We're still assessing what should go into 8.24b versus what needs more testing. Additionally various types of changes, mainly those that change anything that isn't just a number (e.g. different words on a tooltip, modified visual effects etc), aren't able to be included in 8.24b so will be in 9.1 as a result. Should have a fairly clear idea of what's going out this month and what's later late next week.

Quality of Life Work in 9.1

Speaking of 9.1 something else we're working on for it is range of improvements in a few categories.

Improved info when pinging certain abilities

For many global and semi global abilities, which targets are in range (Nocturne R, Caitlyn, Pantheon R etc)
Potentially extra useful info on other abilities, like ammo remaining on Heimer Q, whether Soraka is blocked from casting W due to lack of health (not just lack of mana) etc
Probably won't include ability to ping passives like Draven's to show number of stacks in 9.1. That's on our list of things to add, but likely requires some engineering work because of the way passives are set up differently to spells.

More use of the spell icon countdown border like Zoe Q uses to more clearly show duration of various effects to the player casting them.

Lot of potential users for this. Examples we're currently testing include Braum E, Jax R, how long Karthus has to start casting his R while in passive, Trynd R, Yasuo Q3 etc.

A bit more spell buffering

In addition to the buffering with Kat and Gunblade mentioned earlier in the week we're also testing out a bit of buffering on Zyra (QW and EW) and Jayce (QE)

http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/6.24.1/img/champion/Ziggs.png

209 Comments

Rıots Bad ClientDec 7, 201821 votes

Do you think its possible to add the spell buffers for Zilean

shofazDec 7, 201813 votes

Hey meddler good morning!

I just wanted to ask how you think Viktor landed with his changes. Do you think that you guys will try to help AP Viktor some more?

Because the changes so far are hurting Ap Viktor more than Tank Viktor because of his weak early game. Do you guys intend to fix this anytime soon or will you continue to see how he has landed this patch? What are your thoughts?

Salvor HardınDec 7, 201811 votes

Could you say something about the state of the tanks, especially those in the jungle?

Daddy AntsDec 7, 20189 votes

Revert IE. ty

omnicron007Dec 7, 20188 votes

dont fucking buff jayce wtf? he already destroys all melee characters top lane

RiotMeddlerDec 7, 20187 votes

One update since time of writing - might have a solution for Draven Passive after all. Possible that, and some other passives, do end up in 9.1.

DCYOUNG888Dec 7, 20184 votes

Will the team also try to allow pinging for Sejuani's passive?

Oxinior from LANDec 7, 20187 votes

What about Sejuani? Working on her?

RiotMeddlerDec 7, 201811 votes

Yep. 9.1 candidate.

AtaraxasDec 7, 20186 votes

Some questions about potential permanent game modes:

If Nexus Blitz succeeds will you guys cancel trying to beta test other possible permanent game mode ideas you may have had?
If not, how many game modes can succeed before you stop trying out new ideas?
And how many ideas needs to fail before you give up trying all together?

ALSO could you guys do a poll so you know which type of game modes the community would prefer? I personally would love a PvE mode.

RiotMeddlerDec 7, 20185 votes

If Nexus Blitz proves to be a good fit as a permanent mode then we would scale back work on other options. NB would still need some work to get to polished enough for a full release. It's likely we'd still be doing some exploration into other possible modes even in that scenario, though couldn't make any promises they'd necessarily go anywhere beyond some internal prototyping.

We have run some surveys on what players are looking for out of different game modes. What about PVE appeals to you in particular?

AtaraxasDec 7, 20189 votes

{quoted}

If Nexus Blitz proves to be a good fit as a permanent mode then we would scale back work on other options. NB would still need some work to get to polished enough for a full release. It's likely we'd still be doing some exploration into other possible modes even in that scenario, though couldn't make any promises they'd necessarily go anywhere beyond some internal prototyping.

We have run some surveys on what players are looking for out of different game modes. What about PVE appeals to you in particular?

It's less stressful than PvP and is good when you want to play laid back
Sometimes there's a want to work together with other people rather than verse against them, a PvE mode would fill that void.
People are generally less toxic and more forgiving in a PvE environment.
It's fun to feel really powerful, which you can't do in PvP due to balance issues
It's also fun to one-man many monsters and make plays in PvE, 1v5s go poorly in PvP

Many other reasons too but currently don't have the time to list.

LordRedStone Nr1Dec 7, 20186 votes

Your 3 and 6 are the same, might want to edit one out ;)

I agree with all of them, this basically is the appeal of a MMO but without the tedious stuff like grinding an epic, ancient sword before tossing it away for a more epic, more ancient sword, endless open worlds with almost nothing to do, min-maxing your character (kind of similar to grinding), excluding players from raids because of certain stats below a threshold etc.

Open world is impossible because we jumped straight into the raids with both the Star Guardian and Odyssey, and I hope it stays that way for future PvE modes.

Most of the other stuff is related to progression or power. In League, our character is basically set and there is little progression over the course of an event. Sure, we had augments, but they were never a requirement, as the missions to do Onslaught with less than x augments showed. They were a reward, not a gameplay requirement. They did add a reasonable amount of power, but it was not impossible to beat with "weak" augments, there were lots of viable builds and most of them were equally powerful (for most of the players, I am not talking about the abuse cases in the Onslaught high score list and that one Ziggs thing).

In addition to the above list, some of my reasons for PvE include:

It's more fun to work together than to work against someone. You can test your skill in other ways while playing with someone, you don't need a flashy Lee Sin or Zed outplay to prove that you are good. (I might be biased here because I like playing support and this is one of my main reasons for that)
It's a good entry point. Playing PvP for the first time can be really hard, and I struggle with that in any new game I play. I recently bought Titanfall 2 and I was really anxious about playing multiplayer for the first time. I got wrecked (obviously) and then I discovered the PvE mode which was an instant relief for me. (This plays into 1 and 3 of the original list, because it's often low-stakes.)
A feeling of unity. Sure, you work together on SR, but you don't really feel united. That's one of my high points in PvP: When you coordinated a fight really well and everyone did their job and that's why you won the fight (and maybe even the game). However, that is not always the case in PvP, especially when solo carry potential exists. When it's PvE, you genuinely care about the other persons, because it's you against the world and you need to rely on them. This feeling of hopelessness, against all odds, your group against the world can much better be conveyed in a PvE mode.

Well, this was much longer than I expected it to be, but please, give us more events like Star Guardian or Odyssey. PvE can be really fun, especially if it's connected to the lore so few people care about.

AtaraxasDec 7, 20182 votes

To add even more points to my previous ones:

You don't have to verse similar things to what you already are. With PvP the two teams must be on similar grounds, but with PvE there is a A LOT more creative freedom to make things enjoyable.
Concept of raiding is fun as well. It's exciting to unite with friends to fight big bad op boss.

Seraphim117Dec 7, 20186 votes

Is gangplank still a candidate for buffs? Are you expecting the crit changes to buff him?

Aurelion PlafondDec 7, 20186 votes

What do you think about Asol ? He got too much nerfs imo :(

xCrunchyDec 7, 20184 votes

Any news from crit changes or marksmen ?

RiotMeddlerDec 7, 20186 votes

Crit item adjustments sometime early next year. Don't have details yet, especially with a lot of folks helping out with All Stars this week.

Some individual marksmen changes likely in 8.24b, others in 9.1 and/or 9.2.

DW DianaDec 7, 20184 votes

Meddler, any plans for Diana? She has bugs on 3 out of 5 of her abilities and no core itemization except "something AP". Any attention planned?

DeannaDec 8, 20182 votes

I have noticed every diana question being ignored since like past 10-20 quick gameplay thoughts. I think if he wanted to reply , he would do it immediately, just like he was asked about sejuani changes and he replied a time frame. Since he doesnt have a time frame or something new to reveal , he wont reply. I think your chances are higher if you post immediately after the thread is published, and if you dont get an answer soon after that, then i guess you are bing ignored. good luck

strivegodxDec 7, 20184 votes

Hey meddler!

When will you Fix the Heimerdinger Bugs? f. e.

R+Q auto attacks dont scale with AP anymore The Turrets dont proc Rylais or Aery etc. anymore quite often your turrets dont fire their lasers even tho they have 50/50 charge and the only way to fix this is by replacing them R+Q auto attack or lasers sometimes disappear midair.

can you say anything to this topic? :)

Thanks

godfl0wDec 7, 20184 votes

Why not give Akali shrowd the Azir soldier treatment and make it so when she is within tower range in her shrowd the shrowd has its duration cut by a certain amount?

ElispionDec 7, 20184 votes

Any plans to add buffering to Yasuo's E dash?

200ms South African

ZerenzaDec 7, 20183 votes

Hey Meddler!

In regards to Neeko, it feels like Neeko was meant to be a jungle/mid mage but after testing it seems she falls behind when jungling due to not having good ganking tools. Was this intentional?

Second note, Pyke has the opposite issue in which his ganks are A+ but his clear is terrible. I know this one was intentional but would you guys ever considering giving Pyke a small change to make his clear better? (Such as having his Q get a lower cooldown on monster hit.)

RiotMeddlerDec 7, 20188 votes

Neeko was intended to work well as a solo laner, with jungle and/or support play a possibility but not a primary goal.

Wouldn't want to make Pyke into a stronger jungler, that kit's got a lot of stuff that's going to be pretty unfair if he has additional ability to farm and control gank timing. Even right now his mid lane performance is somewhat concerning, given he's got strengths we normally wouldn't feel were appropriate on an assassin kit if he wasn't heavily limited in other ways (double hard CC in particular).

World EnderDec 7, 20183 votes

Hi Meddler, would be really cool to see some more popularity/mastery curve stats with the reworks such as Aatrox, Akali, and Nunu now that they've been out for a while.

RiotMeddlerDec 7, 20184 votes

Ah, good call. I'll get curves for recent releases into an upcoming post.

QuinncidenceDec 7, 20183 votes

Hey Meddler, any bugfix so Heim turrets can proc rylai, dark harvast and aery again? :)

RiotMeddlerDec 7, 20182 votes

Lemme check in with the designer who worked on the Heimer hotfix, see what the deal there is.

RiotMeddlerDec 7, 20183 votes

Yeah, that's unintentional, looks like how that damage is categorized got changed. We'll get that fixed.

fabfanDec 7, 20183 votes

Hey Meddler is it possible to make Garen Q animation scale with attack speed like other empowered AA ?

xxxDogmanxxxDec 7, 20183 votes

Nocturne Ult is currently bugged, it sends Nocturne to the target's original location when the Ult is cast, not the target's current location, meaning the target can just dash away or get a speed boost and Nocturne Ult ends up being wasted and doing no damage.

ModDesonanceDec 7, 20183 votes

Hi Meddler let's talk about Kayle. Will we be seeing any additional info on her rework anytime soon?

NananyfoDec 7, 20182 votes

Hey meddler

Are you going to add the zoe Q thingy to lux's E too?

And do you think that star guardian lux's recall music needs to be updated to match the other star guardians?

RiotMeddlerDec 7, 20182 votes

Yeah, Lux's E is one of the abilities we're trying it on. We've got a list of around 25 champs we're testing it for right now. Assuming it goes as expected easy enough to add to anyone we miss in 9.2 as well.

DW DianaDec 7, 20183 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, Lux's E is one of the abilities we're trying it on. We've got a list of around 25 champs we're testing it for right now. Assuming it goes as expected easy enough to add to anyone we miss in 9.2 as well.

Is Diana among those?

Pokemonred200Dec 7, 20182 votes

Any reason why Kalista 's W AD is gone on PBE, or was that done in error?

RiotMeddlerDec 7, 20184 votes

Part of a set of experimental changes that includes higher base AD and reduced damage to epic monsters on E. Not sure why just that's on PBE. Changes don't have a timeframe or validation yet.

OBL1VIONDec 7, 20182 votes

Will we see new items in early 2019, to help out adcs or are you just changing items ads use?

RiotMeddlerDec 7, 20183 votes

Addressing issues with existing items will be our priority. New items aren't impossible, but we don't believe the issue is so much lack of choice as it is satisfaction and pattern issues with existing items.

ProfDrDeathDec 7, 20182 votes

Does that include Essence Reaver? Feel like that item would be more satisfying if the buff only activated on attacking champions/epic monsters/cannon minions.

SpideraxeDec 7, 20181 votes

Hey a Meddler can I ask how well Neeko landed so far

RiotMeddlerDec 7, 20185 votes

Reception seems pretty positive and some of the deception play seems to be working as hoped.

Looks like she's probably noticeably too strong. Going to assess on Monday after both Neeko players and their opponents have had a bit more time to adapt, see what changes look appropriate.

Guts ManDec 7, 20184 votes

{quoted}

Reception seems pretty positive and some of the deception play seems to be working as hoped.

Looks like she's probably noticeably too strong. Going to assess on Monday after both Neeko players and their opponents have had a bit more time to adapt, see what changes look appropriate.

Hi Meddler,

Just piggy backing off this, I actually have a quick question about her kit.

I noticed that her Shapesplitter ability cost no mana; what is the rationale behind this? Although it is short lived, she gains bonus magic damage, movement speed, invisibility and has a controllable clone.

For comparison, both Wukong's Decoy (stand still clone and magic damage) and Pyke's Ghostwater Dive (camoflauge and movement speed) both cost mana. I understand LeBlanc's clone cost no mana, but its also located on her passive.

Just wanted to know the rationale behind the no cost for this ability.

Thanks

RiotAzuBKDec 7, 20186 votes

Hey, I can field this one because I happened to suggest it to SolCrushed late in Neeko development. W has minimal combat benefit during lane, so using it offensively when it had a mana cost was usually negative value—that mana could go to waveclear or poke instead (you would mostly only press W when you were getting ganked). W is also pretty hard to use effectively and takes some learning, so it was important that she want to use it frequently in lane in order to get practice on the ability in a non-life-or-death settings. Removing the mana cost and moving that cost to Q/E meant that Neeko players are encouraged to try and trick people with her W in lane as much as possible (using it to set up tricky E angles especially), giving players way more practice both with and against the spell and offering a different laning experience from the more standard mage pattern.

Guts ManDec 7, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Hey, I can field this one because I happened to suggest it to SolCrushed late in Neeko development. W has minimal combat benefit during lane, so using it offensively when it had a mana cost was usually negative value—that mana could go to waveclear or poke instead (you would mostly only press W when you were getting ganked). W is also pretty hard to use effectively and takes some learning, so it was important that she want to use it frequently in lane in order to get practice on the ability in a non-life-or-death settings. Removing the mana cost and moving that cost to Q/E meant that Neeko players are encouraged to try and trick people with her W in lane as much as possible (using it to set up tricky E angles especially), giving players way more practice both with and against the spell and offering a different laning experience from the more standard mage pattern.

Ok cool, thanks for your answer. So how I understand the rationale is that if this ability had a mana cost, it'd be used primarily to get away from ganks during the laning phase, rather than a "deception" tool on her enemies. I guess the way I saw it in my head, was Neeko is getting a free engage/disengage, with multiple benefits at no cost other than a cooldown - I thought this was a bit odd but the way you explained it makes sense.

I guess that brings me to my next question, if you're able to answer, about other abilities in the game that have a similar purpose (albeit a different effect), such as Decoy. I'm only asking because I feel like the Decoy ability is similar in numerous ways, but still costs mana which would affect waveclear and timing on when the ability can be used to deceive an opponent.

Once again, thanks for your answer! I appreciate it and it definitely helps understand why this was done.

RiotAzuBKDec 7, 20185 votes

I haven't given Decoy much depth of thought, so there may be something I'm missing, but I think it's a bit different in that it's a more mandatory part of Wukong's combat pattern. He is encouraged to cast it aggressively, because his trading pattern as a melee champion with no other disengage or mitigation makes it very valuable, so there's no need to take the somewhat unconventional step of making it free so that he feels like he should cast the spell (which was required for Neeko). It's still possible that there are enough reasons that it might make sense as a free/very low cost spell, but that would certainly come at a some cost to his other abilities or the actual output of Decoy.

To sum it up: it might make sense, but at face value I don't think the final changelist would make Wukong a meaningfully better champion, because he'd still play very similarly but with some values shifted around (could be wrong here). For Neeko, it was super important because players felt like using her most unique spell in lane was the wrong choice, and removing its cost made that no longer true. Additionally, she's just very difficult to gank when her W is available, so there's value in prompting her to put it on cooldown for reasons aside from escaping.