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Quick Gameplay Thoughts: July 13

RiotMeddler·7/13/2018, 3:44:31 PM·1 votes·89,195 views

Hi folks,

Usual Disclaimers

These posts will often contain talk about future work we're doing, or planning to do, that isn't yet guaranteed to ship. The nature of the work could change or, depending on what we discover, projects mentioned may get put delayed or even stopped. If you'd like to see a Tweet whenever a new one of these posts goes up: https://twitter.com/RiotMeddler

** Gold Funneling Questions**

When talking about our changes to address gold funneling earlier in the week I saw quite a few questions that that post didn't cover cropping up. Figured it would be good to cover them today as a result. Apologies for those of you who've read some of this before, likely to be a fair bit of repetition, would rather err on the side of talking too much than too little on this though.

  • Why nerf funneling, what's wrong with another strategy being used?

We're hitting funneling because of what it does to both early game interaction and power curves. It certainly creates some interesting variety of team comps and strategy. It does so by turning mid lane into a low interaction position though, instead of a really active one and by pushing a lot more gold onto champs than they've been balanced around. In some cases that holds up fine, in others it removes too much counterplay from playing against them.

  • Why is funneling fine in bot lane then, but not when it's mid/jungle?

While in both cases there are two champs on one team, with one of them taking all the farm, things are noticeably different. In bot it's one champ getting all of one gold stream, rather than pushing two gold streams onto a single champ. Additionally bot lane still has a lot of interaction going on, with both sides trading/harassing and at least one side generally looking for kill opportunities.

  • What about Twisted Treeline, funneling has been going on there for a long time

It has, and that means changing it's a pretty substantial upheaval, given it's so core to how TT's been played for quite a while. At least in the short term we'll be keeping these changes that nerf gold funneling on SR only.

  • Why not nerf support gold instead since they're the problem?

We're seeing funneling create mid laners (or mid funneled junglers) with 50% more gold than the enemy mid at the 15 minute mark. Even if we reduced the amount of gold supports were getting substantially (e.g. 500 less by 15:00) that doesn't address the core issue here that's making funneling powerful. That's not to say supports necessarily are or aren't in the appropriate place power wise in general, but that for this particular problem we don't think they're the primary cause.

Some 8.15 changes

Some of the things we'll be looking at in 8.15 below. As usual some more stuff will be added as we work on the patch and some things will get dropped, either because they're not ready or because we conclude they weren't the right direction in the first place.

  • Annie buff - We're pulling Annie buffs out of 8.14 to take some more time on them for 8.15. First thing we'll be testing is giving Annie back at least some of the extra AA range she used to have.
  • Liandry's buff - Similarly the Liandry's buff has also moved to 8.15. Will likely still be exploring ways to make it a better choice for many champs without having to pair it with Rylai's, while still keeping some degree of CC synergy. Details TBD>
  • Gold Funneling and TP nerf followups - Expecting there'll be some polish needed, putting time aside to do a lot of monitoring of how those changes land at the least.
  • Playoffs Balance - Some regions will be playing their Summer Split playoffs on 8.15. We'll be keeping change pretty low as a result overall, with potentially a targeted nerf or two to really pro problematic champs if needs be (Play off patches are one of the times we prioritize looking at pro balance more than usual).

Working to update LoL’s tooltips

For anyone that missed it yesterday we’ve got a gradual project underway to update LoL’s tooltips. More details at the link below, this is something where we’ll be trying various different approaches in upcoming patches and gathering feedback over time before settling on a final version. https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/yIBUoyaP-tooltips-update

http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/6.24.1/img/champion/Ziggs.png

281 Comments

RenanRein7/13/2018, 4:03:16 PM11 votes

What about Irelia Meddler? Her top lane experience isn't enjoyable anymore. Have to stay safe and farm it's not a fun way to play, especially on top lane.

Seviel Vorose7/13/2018, 4:01:48 PM9 votes

Hi Meddler. Many of you mentioned potential Syndra buffs, since she's one of the worst performing mid laners, but since then everything has been silent. Can we get any insight? We Syndra mains would really love some informations.

InTheory7/13/2018, 3:48:42 PM8 votes

Hey Meddler, what do you think/have to say about the following statements:

  • League is being changed too fast (too big changes every 2 weeks). You change the game faster than players can adapt to it.
  • Instead of giving players time to adapt and find solutions to the game, you throw in your own solutions and just change the game.
  • Please refuse to adapt because they know that things are going to be changed anyway at some point.
  • The more you change things up the more players ask for changes that benefit their own playstyle and picks.
Kosmish7/13/2018, 4:25:21 PM8 votes

Lol so by "short-term" what you really mean is Twisted Treeline is never going to get attention like its always been. K

ısa7/13/2018, 6:10:47 PM7 votes

Hi Meddler, Any buffs to Galio? I was thinking more anti-mage kinda buffs, like rewarding him for building more magic resist. Maybe become the "rammus of mages"

Koboldgeomant7/13/2018, 4:30:16 PM7 votes

Hi Meddler,

are there any Ivern buffs planned ?

Blue Comfort7/13/2018, 7:49:23 PM6 votes

Planning to make Karma more of a midlane mage than a support? And what about Zyra's plants still being deleted before a fight begins?

Dog of Pavlov7/13/2018, 4:03:03 PM6 votes

Hey Meddler,

Multiple tweets/posts talked about Syndra definitely being looked at for buffs. Her playrate is lower than it's ever been (since I can remember before MYMU), her winrate is not great for only mains playing her (even I stopped playing her last month), and her pro-play win rate in season 8 is only 42% according to the website that offers proplay statistics.

The Syndra mains subreddit had to condense a ton of posts because everyone is just so frustrated that she's been ignored for a potential buff since so long. Back before the item changes, it was stated she was looked at for a buff but the team wanted to "see where she ended up" - and her win rate/play rate have gone down quite a lot since then.

We aren't asking to make her pick/ban status, but when she has that low of a win-rate in pro-play, causes that much frustration for the mains, and has been on the decline for so long now, just a small buff could help (maybe something similar to Ahri/Viktors buffs)!

Thanks.

Sparr1267/13/2018, 4:18:09 PM5 votes

Do you plan some tweaks to ap items that are underperforming?

Mainly hextech glp-800,no one build this item,now without the catalist passive. Archangel and ludens are always better options.

And what about banshee's veil? It has an unappealing path,sitting on a null mantle isn't enought against some heavy ap champ. And now that luden is a first item,the passive effect is really easy to break.

What are your toughts about nullifying orb?Is it possible to make the shield adaptive? The combination of it and hextrinker is totally unfair in a burst/snowballmage(like syndra) vs ad assassin.

Packun Flower7/13/2018, 9:24:03 PM5 votes

Hello Meddler,

May I have your thoughts on the assassin crises in Midlane, namely the dominance of both Talon & Zed.

Sir Nope7/13/2018, 4:02:33 PM5 votes

Two questions:

When will we see Akali hit the PBE?

Are any tanks that can jungle being looked at for buffs?

Spideraxe7/13/2018, 4:10:32 PM5 votes

Hey Meddler will Lissandra skins be getting new particles with her passive

Severla7/13/2018, 4:51:21 PM5 votes

{quoted}

  • What about Twisted Treeline, funneling has been going on there for a long time

It has, and that means changing it's a pretty substantial upheaval, given it's so core to how TT's been played for quite a while. At least in the short term we'll be keeping these changes that nerf gold funneling on SR only.

But.. arent the Treeline players wanting it nerfed there, too?

Like every instance I see of them noting it having been there forever are ended with 'and it sucks.'

Fasmodey7/13/2018, 3:50:00 PM5 votes

When can we see mages buffs and Lissandra changes?

atlıkarınca7/13/2018, 3:47:40 PM4 votes

Is the lissandra pass definite?

Spearsus7/13/2018, 9:35:08 PM4 votes

Hi Meddler, thanks for existing and creating Syndra, one of my favorite champions to play with <3

Ossify7/13/2018, 3:51:57 PM4 votes

Hi Meddler, is there any reason Riot is choosing to nerf the non problematic part of Swains kit and also his most satisfying? (His R explosion damage). Why not try and take care of his passive in a duo lane, as in halve the heal by applied allied cc or up the cooldown on his passive?

JimmyRevSullivan7/13/2018, 5:50:05 PM4 votes

Hey Meddler

Since DrMundo is a pretty strong pick right now even after his recent nerf on E i know you guys are looking into more changes in order to balance him so i have a sugestion: How about add scalings into his kit and reduce his base dmg? I mean,Mundo builds full tank because is the best option since he can't really use an offensive item like his juggernaut brothers like Darius so he ends in a pretty tough spot in terms of itemization because his only scaling is laughable and it's not going to be relevant unless you somehow manage to get 1000AP. My idea is basically make Mundo a proper juggernaut and make him build atleast one offensive option in order to keep his dmg relevant instead of smacking people to death with base dmg while also being unkilliable because you build full tank. I suggest ap scalings in order to make Mundo more unique,you know? We have a lot of ad juggernauts but only Mordekaiser is an proper ap juggernaut so i think Mundo can join him and build things like Liandry(i'm pretty sure liandry was one of his recommended itens for a while :P ) or any other Ap + Health item.

English is not my main language but i hope you can understand what i'm trying to say ^^

JH Barsaiqua7/13/2018, 5:58:00 PM4 votes

Hey Meddler, how has your day been going? ^_^

kaemani7/13/2018, 9:03:00 PM4 votes

hello, really curious about thoughts on amumu or just tank junglers in general being almost useless in the early game

Salvor Hardın7/13/2018, 3:51:27 PM4 votes

Hi Meddler!

I would like to ask you if the Nerf to Conqueror will be on next week's patch, and if not, ask you to at least do a partial nerf to Conqueror for that patch.

BigVi7/14/2018, 2:04:33 AM4 votes

Oh, nice, so you guys are just doing literally nothing to address any of the issues. NICE!

Operator3B7/13/2018, 4:47:53 PM3 votes

Hey Meddler, i wanted to know what your opinion was on Syndra. Particularly, are you worried she might become to frustrating to lane against if buffed? For example, her Q is not performing too well according to other players but i wanted to also hear what you think is the cause for her underperforming

ShadowParker7/13/2018, 4:57:46 PM3 votes

Meddler please have the team look at TT. Now is the perfect time since you’re already looking st the gold funneling strat.

I implore you to please reconsider.

Ralanr7/13/2018, 6:10:43 PM3 votes

Hey Meddler, I've been meaning to ask about the Sion Q buff. Why are you guys focusing more on his Q than his other abilities? I know you guys probably don't want to buff up his E, and I guess his W is a bit tricky, but Q max Sion (while hurting) is very unreliable as a playstyle for lane Sion.

Maybe it used to be a thing upon release, but when I started maining him (around season 6) I was told E max was the primary way to go. This was because his base stats were weak for early melee trades, forcing him to farm and harass from afar. This was more or less fine until comet (and later the hitbox bug) made it too good.

Have you thought about buffing some base stats instead of targeting his Q?

AirKingNeo7/13/2018, 8:56:27 PM3 votes

Liandry's buff - Similarly the Liandry's buff has also moved to 8.15. Will likely still be exploring ways to make it a better choice for many champs without having to pair it with Rylai's, while still keeping some degree of CC synergy. Details TBD>

People already buy this item a ton like Orianna. Don't buff the already strong AP items. Buff garbage like ROA.

The Pizza Bag7/13/2018, 10:56:34 PM3 votes

Hey meddler, any news on Zac? Seems to be underperforming and his place in the top Lane is practically dead :c

Solari Fortune7/13/2018, 4:09:34 PM2 votes

Also some time ago I asked bout Leona you guys had noted she still on the radar given her ability to go from "Oh its a Leona" to "Wtf this Leona just solo'd me" at times

has that changed at all?

Reign of Squid7/14/2018, 10:16:34 PM2 votes

Hey devs, Actually, do you think that Sivir has a satisfying kit? Her passive feels quite weak with all those stuff which can make the same thing (fleetfootwork, stormrazor, celerity)