Quick Gameplay Thoughts: May 30

RiotMeddler·May 30, 2018·1 votes·53,638 views

Hi folks,

Usual Disclaimers

These posts will often contain talk about future work we're doing, or planning to do, that isn't yet guaranteed to ship. The nature of the work could change or, depending on what we discover, projects mentioned may get put delayed or even stopped. If you'd like to see a Tweet whenever a new one of these posts goes up: https://twitter.com/RiotMeddler

Why the PBE's not good for judging balance

A question we see crop up pretty regularly is 'why don’t you balance off PBE testing more?'. We'd love to get a better read on balance changes while they're still on PBE so we can catch more things before they're live. PBE's not a good representation of normal LoL play though unfortunately.

To dig into that a bit more though let's take a look at some data that compares impact of balance changes on the PBE versus those same changes later on the regular servers. The Live servers are the top set of data here, PBE the lower. Champs listed are those we made changes to in 8.9. The Live data's from just after the patch went out, the PBE data's from most of the PBE patch cycle. Win rate differences listed are relative to where champs were during the previous cycle for the respective servers (e.g. PBE Mundo in 8.9 is being compared to PBE Mundo in 8.8, not Live Mundo in 8.8). Apologies these aren’t the easiest to read graphs, they’re just slightly modified screenshots from one of our tools.

https://imgur.com/a/QroQ5Ij

As you can see in some cases impact of a change is pretty similar in the data sets (e.g. Talon at +1.5% PBE and +2% Live). Most changes however are pretty different, sometimes extremely so (Shyvana, Mundo, Leona, Rammus etc show very different changes on PBE here versus Live).

That difference between PBE and Live performance is due to a range of factors:

PBE has a lot of people trying weird stuff, not trying to win, lots of afking etc
PBE has low quality matchmaking (very large skill discrepancies between players). That's due to both a low server population and lack of match history for most players to accurately gauge their skill.
Even if people are trying and are appropriately matched there just aren't enough games on most champs for a good sample size. With a couple of hundred games for a champion margin of error is really large, even more so if a lot of those games come from one or two players spamming that champ.
We also see a lot of people trying things for the first time (e.g. AP Shyvana in this example)
Etc

That's not to say PBE isn't really helpful. What's it's good for though is generally not balance related though. Things like:

Identifying and reproducing bugs
Generating perception feedback on changes, both from people who've tried it in game and those who've read about it elsewhere (sites like Boards, Reddit, Surrender@20 etc)
Assessing intuitiveness and usability that aren't dependent on the actions of other players much. Does this ability feel smooth to cast? Is this tooltip intuitive?

Yorick

We’ve got a change going into 8.12 where Yorick’s summons will update their stats as Yorick’s stats update. In particular that means things that give/remove AD post cast (Sterak’s, Conqueror, Mocking Shout etc) will be more relevant.

Early Game Snowball

We’ve seen an increase in early game snowball over recent patches, both statistically and in player feedback. We’ll be looking at that as one of our highest gameplay priorities for a while as a result. Some preliminary details about what we’re thinking later in the week. One of the challenges there will be managing both an increase in solo carry potential (another goal) with reducing early game snowball, given things that do one will often clash with the other.

http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/6.24.1/img/champion/Ziggs.png

263 Comments

ShaianMay 30, 20189 votes

Did the Zyraplantchanges make it for 8.11? I havent seen anything related to that.

Another question about the meleechamp interaction. Do you think its ok, if Champions like Irelia or Yasuo can use them as a free gapcloser/reset on their dashes and oneshotting the plants at the same time?

RiotRiot MapleNectarMay 30, 20183 votes

They didn't. In testing the implementation we had made it so you couldn't block skillshots with plants anymore - then the designer working on it was out for a bit sick. It's unfortunate since on paper the change seems pretty easy, but hasn't proven as simple when looking at implementation.

Personal opinion is that champs should be able to target them for moveblocks, that's part of the counterplay - you place a plant, I can use it to get to you, but feel less strongly about them being able to oneshot them at the same time

ShaianMay 30, 201811 votes

I think theres a general misconception of how much counterplay zyras plants should have. It should never be worth to step into the zone of a champion. Thats part of the champions identity to create a zone. But, if the zone has too much counterplay people just charge into you.

What i suggest is to give her E a debuff for a short time (like 1.5sec) in which they deal reduced damage to plants.

https://twitter.com/Shaian1112/status/968652789713915905

Especially melee carries with attackspeed/autoattack resetabilities, like yasuo, tryndamere, rengar, fiora etc., should get punished for getting rooted. And my suggestion doesnt fix the problem against mobile melee champions, where u dont want to throw your E immediatly, but start with QWREW. Its like almost impossible to get 2 enraged plants at all or for even 2 attacks.

Your changes were aimed to make Zyra weaker in lower MMR, where people have issues to fight against damage done by AI, but it was waaaay more impactful for higher MMR games.

I think with the issues Zyra got she needs way more time and resources to be fixed than she currently gets. Every change seems to be rushed without too much indept brainstorming how to help her out. Her gameplay design deteriorated in the past 2 years with almost every change. You kept keeping her power down and compensated it with passive buffs, so much that shes not the champion people loved to play. Zyras biggest issue used to be her passive and we wanted a new one, a better bonus to this well rounded and designed kit. But nowadays everything gets balanced around her passive and i think shes not the champion im onetricking since level 22, since season 3, which i spent several thousands of games with. Its just sad to play her this season.

Edit: One more thing i want to point out: Zyra had alot of clunkyness issues for a long time with her spells. The only reason she was still playable was because of the amount of damage she could deal. But in the past 6 months she received 3 major damage nerfs (Runes Reforged, her plants, Liandries being the best first item and her only powerspike). Her spells dont harmony with each other because of their numbers. She got compensated with big buffs to her passive, which loses relevance after 20 minutes and is the least exciting part of her. There is no way Zyra would be released like that nowadays. She lacks exectution of her gameplay by herself.

5050BSMay 31, 20182 votes

I really want Zyra fixes done right. One thing is that she is a Zone mage. But you keep nerfing her Zone. You seem to WANT and feel its OK for someone to go into her Zone. Ask yourself do people want to go into zone? This is what Zyra wants and SHOULD have too.

Im fine with her plants being Unkillable but targetable for a short duration. Its stupid that her plants have HPs AND a Duration. She is getting Double hit for her plants and they are not as smart and not as effective as Heimerdinger turrets.

There has been a ton of great ideas put forth on the boards and Reditt. Take a look.

VekknaMay 31, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Maple Nectar,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=EQ6VnjTH,comment-id=00360000,timestamp=2018-05-30T17:08:07.119+0000)

They didn't. In testing the implementation we had made it so you couldn't block skillshots with plants anymore - then the designer working on it was out for a bit sick. It's unfortunate since on paper the change seems pretty easy, but hasn't proven as simple when looking at implementation.

What's the problem with reverting their health? I know the playtesters claimed that old hp values were oppressive with the W refund, but there are a lot of reasons why that doesn't make much sense. Context:

In mid season 7, Afic stated that Zyra was not playtested in mid because she was not "theorycrafted to be viable." The W buff added one seed per 30-second wave. How is that one seed capable of swinging the pendulum from non-viable to oppressive?
How does 1 seed per 30 seconds justify plant hp nerfs, let alone the extreme nerfs that were implemented?
The hp nerf mainly benefited melee, and all of Zyra's hardest counters in mid are melee (Kass, Fizz, Zed, Talon, Ekko, Akali). Why did she need to be weaker against the set of champs that have always been the gatekeepers of her viability?

I would love nothing more than to understand why it isn't as simple as a revert (or having plant hp decay from 24 > 8 over two seconds). I don't understand the logic behind any of the changes to Zyra since the end of last season.

There has to be some missing piece of information that makes sense of all this, right? From where I sit, it looks like the playtesters were surprised by Zyra's solo lane threat because they were unfamiliar with her baseline. That's an easy assumption to make when you look at how much damage she lost from pen runes compared to the damage she gets from one seed per wave.

I'm not even that salty about this anymore, tbh. I'm just genuinely curious because I've thought a lot about this and cannot imagine a set of facts to make sense of the above, nor can I imagine why the problem requires a complex solution. You don't owe me a response, but I'm ready to have my mind blown.

fabfanMay 30, 20187 votes

Hi @Meddler, I have a question, if a post on the forum or Reddit is made to ask you to help Garen and it gets many many votes, will you listen to his players and do some change on him? If yes, how many votes do you need on the post and what specific content do you want on it, to take it seriously?

RiotMeddlerMay 30, 201815 votes

Number of upvotes is relevant in that it helps us see the post in the first place.

What matters in terms of whether we act on something is how good the argument is though. A thousand upvotes on 'buff Garen, he needs to be stronger' just says there are people out there who want Garen buffs with fewer people willing to downvote such a request. That's usually the case for any champ not currently considered overpowered. A not upvoted thread at all however, if it has great points about when Garen's weak, why that's inappropriate, how he could be changed in ways that are consistent with who Garen is/how he plays etc has better odds of getting traction (provided it gets seen in the first place that is).

XIII VanitasMay 30, 20184 votes

About Garen, does Riot feel like he needs a GU to give his gameplay some more depth? And if the answer is positive, how high on the rework list would he be?

OmegasisXMay 31, 20183 votes

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/1eHwaK4m-meddler-why-garen-is-weak-how-we-can-fix-him

SpideraxeMay 30, 20183 votes

Hey Meddler, can I ask for your thoughts on Predator now that it's starting to gain traction amongst Olaf and Skarner

RiotMeddlerMay 30, 20184 votes

They seem like appropriate users. Expect it's always going to be more niche than most keystones, given its got a more limited potential user pool (those who'll sacrifice a lot for initial target access). It's also not a primarily damage focused keystone and that, regardless of whether it's a good choice or not, also makes a fair number of players immediately ignore it.

KyunseiMay 30, 20185 votes

{quoted}

They seem like appropriate users. Expect it's always going to be more niche than most keystones, given its got a more limited potential user pool (those who'll sacrifice a lot for initial target access). It's also not a primarily damage focused keystone and that, regardless of whether it's a good choice or not, also makes a fair number of players immediately ignore it.

I feel like Predator made Rammus less Rammus, as a lot of champion can have the identity that before was solely reserved to Rammus and somewhat to Hecarim.

RiotMeddlerMay 30, 20185 votes

Fair call out IMO. That's a challenge we run into with a lot of design spaces like this, how much to keep them unique to one or two champs versus broaden them out to give interesting options and interactions to others as well. In this case we felt it was an appropriate trade off to make, but especially if you play a lot of Rammus or Hecarim entirely understand where you're coming from.

Solari FortuneMay 30, 20183 votes

Whats your guys thoughts on this whole funneling strat that has been popping up lately in that a jungler gives all their camps to a laner with smite leading to the laner being far ahead of everyone in the game, or the reverse of a support laner giving all their farm to the jungler and following them around while they can freely invade because they are often 3+ levels up on the enemy jungler

Also any thoughts for Rek'Sai? You think she in an OK spot atm?

RiotMeddlerMay 30, 20188 votes

Funneling wise, that's one's pretty interesting IMO:

It's a new strategy emerging, which, all else being equal, we think is pretty cool. Would like to support different playstyles more than we have in the past.
Having said that, it's not clear yet whether there's sufficient counterplay to it or not. Not seeing people use it optimally or play against it optimally yet (does demand adaptation)
We certainly seeing some player frustration with it. Need to determine that's temporary pain around the state of the meta changing and something new getting found or that it's a strategy that even long term will lead to a less fun, deep game.
Funneling of resources risks creating game states where one or more players gives up a lot of their agency and fun so someone else can be stronger. Some of that can be fine, possible this crosses the line though (not personally sure yet)
It's also putting additional focus on Yi's counterplay and whether, if he gets far enough ahead/has the right allied support, there's potentially just not enough there (repeatability of untargetability plus burst being the things most on my mind at least).

Rek'Sai - yeah, seems reasonable at present. As with all champs will see after 8.11 hits. Seeing pro play resume should also be informative there, given she's generally performed stronger in that context than others.

Solari FortuneMay 30, 20183 votes

about that last point regarding Yi, it not even with just him

You just have a support laner like Lulu Ori Karma Taric and because of their kits they remain revelevant in the game as merely just heal/shield bots

and for the jungle funneling camps into the laner it just ends up being a more supportish jungler like Nunu

Recently fought a Graves Lulu doing this and Graves has nearly 100+ farm up on me as a jungler by 10 min and was freely entering my jungle, meanwhile Lulu is still able to provide a large amount of use to her team with only 36 farm because she just spams shields

dome025May 30, 20182 votes

Recently had a game against jungle Twitch and midlane Kayle. We won through the synergy between those 2 champs was strong. But they didn´t play very well. I think this funneling strategy isn´t really new. I can remember how 2 youtubers used this strategy (kayle top and yi jungle) like 1 or 2 years ago for only one game. It might be a thing that occurs randomly or temporarily after balance changes.

SkilllessbiscuitMay 30, 20188 votes

{quoted}

Funneling wise, that's one's pretty interesting IMO:

It's a new strategy emerging, which, all else being equal, we think is pretty cool. Would like to support different playstyles more than we have in the past.

What? funneling is definitely not a new strat. high elo 3s has been dealing with this bullshit meta for years now. Absolutely unfun.

ScruffyScruffzMay 30, 20184 votes

I dont see why people continuously bring up 3s as if its relevant, its very hard to play around a hypercarry when theres less players in the game with tools for that job.

ShadowParkerMay 30, 20183 votes

We keep bringing it up because the strat is the dominant strat in that gamemode.

Literally all 3v3 players want that strategy gone.

GnartastropheMay 30, 20182 votes

As someone else said the funneling of resources isn't new, it's what the meta has been for higher elo twisted treeline for a long time. Especially because the fact there is still support items in 3s and 3v3 would really be so much better off without them. If you look for most responses of TT most people don't usually enjoy the hypercarry and it really shouldn't come to 5s. It essentially makes junglers useless and is oppressive to the jungling meta.

dome025May 30, 20183 votes

@Hi Meddler

Just wanna hear your thoughts about what if crit would give a chance to deal true damage instead of higher damage? This wouldn´t make crit as much as a problem to squishies and with the new infinity edge you are using a slightly similar approach. Sorry if you spoke about this in a previous gameplay thoughts post.

And another aspect. What do you think about increasing variety and conditions of shields?

First example: A shield which is granted to all allies in the targeted area. But all allies would use the same shield -> for example: maximum shield value is 500, sona uses it for 50 damage and now the shield value goes down for everyone to 450.

Second example: A shield which could be cast like Viktor´s ult. It´s a missile which gives the nearest ally a shield and the user needs to follow his ally with the missile otherwise it doesn´t shield his ally anymore.

RiotMeddlerMay 30, 20189 votes

Crits dealing true damage - we did try that last year. Did improve the squishy versus tank issue you talk about. Most players of crit champs were extremely unsatisfied with the change however, due to a combination of much weaker farming, too large a drop in damage versus squishies and difficulty assessing how much benefit they were getting even versus tankier targets in the moment (clear what crit does by contrast). The change to IE in 8.11 by contrast we think gets some of those benefits with much lower costs. Possible we revisit the issue at some point, don't want to make any promises though.

Shield shared with allies - that one crops up pretty regularly as something someone wants to try on a prototype. Main issue is that optimal play is to just only have one person in the shield ever. If it gives useful values to a full team, it'll be pretty nutty if concentrated on a single person. If it's not useful to a full team you've made either a worse Locket/Lux shield or a regular shield with extra awkwardness of use.

Viktor ult like shield - that's pretty cool IMO. Wouldn't want to just replace an existing shield with that, given it's a distinct skill that would take a fair bit of mindshare, but would be very interested in trying it whenever the right champ to prototype in on comes along.

BP SmLMay 30, 20183 votes

@Meddler

Hi! Do you have any changes for Shen planned? He is not really in a great spot for SoloQ right now.

RiotRiot MapleNectarMay 30, 20185 votes

I'm not Meddler, but we don't currently have any plans for Shen. We've been focusing a lot more effort into all the larger scale changes you've been seeing coming out recently, and de-emphasizing champ specific tuning in a lot of cases until midseason patches are done and out of the way. We're still doing some small champ stuff, but it's usually things we can validate quickly. I'd imagine that post midseason we'd be taking a pass on all champs that are sitting lower than ideal.

Reign of SquidMay 30, 20183 votes

I remember you talked about Karma lore and gameplay update. What's new about that ?

RiotMeddlerMay 30, 20186 votes

Still looking to do some gameplay changes sometime this year. Not sure if there's anything on the narrative side planned or not, if so would be independent of that gameplay work.

NinetalesMay 30, 20183 votes

Hey Meddler,

Is there any talk about the future of yorick now that steraks is being gutted of its trinity combination?

He loses out on roughly 100-190 damage every 1.5 seconds with that change, and as he has no bonus AD scalings, the changes do not benefit him in any way.

RiotRiot StashuMay 30, 20189 votes

Heya! Not Meddler, but I've been working on Sterak's with Lowbo. Yorick's the main champ on our radar for Sterak's compensation (if we decide to go through with the Base>Bonus change, it's still a bit contentious). Me and Yorick's designer (SolCrushed) have been talking about what changes we can make to open Yorick's ability to itemize offensively when it makes sense. Won't go into details because it's all very speculative still, but we've got some options we're excited about it if Sterak's goes through.

edit: Misspelled 'Lowbo' as 'Lobow,' rip.

NinetalesMay 30, 20183 votes

That's amazing to hear, thank you so much.

If you ever feel like you need a third ear, a whole bunch of us Yorick Enthusiasts at the Yorick Mains subreddit would love to help however we can.

Thanks again!

GewaltherrscherMay 30, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Stashu,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=EQ6VnjTH,comment-id=00260000,timestamp=2018-05-30T17:26:20.902+0000)

Heya! Not Meddler, but I've been working on Sterak's with Lowbo. Yorick's the main champ on our radar for Sterak's compensation (if we decide to go through with the Base>Bonus change, it's still a bit contentious). Me and Yorick's designer (SolCrushed) have been talking about what changes we can make to open Yorick's ability to itemize offensively when it makes sense. Won't go into details because it's all very speculative still, but we've got some options we're excited about it if Sterak's goes through.

edit: Misspelled 'Lowbo' as 'Lobow,' rip.

Hello Stashu/Meddler and the Riot-Team, what about Garen his splitpush viablity is also getting nerfed with the Steraks-Trinity nerf and do you have any compensating for Garen because of the crit item changes. The crit items do now have alot gold effiency in AS and for Garen thats completely useless now. IMO his E should scale with AS to compensate (more AS->more dmg per tick for his spin). The ability of his E to be able to crit is now basicly useless because crit items are now useless for him.

And there was talk about adding more power to Garen that could be done with removing of the Villian mechanic which is too powerfull and unfun to play against and its randomness to target the Villian makes it also useless for Garenplayers in many cases its frustrating for both parties. So the Villian mechanic should be entierely removed and AS scaling should be added to his E to compensate the IE/ER and Trinity/Steraks that nerfed his splitpush and critbuild viability.

Quality ContentMay 30, 20183 votes

Now that Pyke is about to released what is the timeline for Aatrox looking like? How soon can you guys start talking about him?

RiotRiot MapleNectarMay 30, 201830 votes

soontm?

A champion is never late, nor is he early, he releases precisely when he means to

warpenguin555May 30, 20182 votes

Why does this sound like some weird teaser for Aatrox's rework?

RiotRiot MapleNectarMay 30, 201812 votes

Oh it's definitely not. I just watched LOTR this weekend and that line is fucking stuck in my head again :(

HópeMay 30, 20189 votes

[{quoted}](name=Maple Nectar,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=EQ6VnjTH,comment-id=0031000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-30T17:48:18.459+0000)

Oh it's definitely not. I just watched LOTR this weekend and that line is fucking stuck in my head again :(

Just curious, you stated that Zyras plant health didnt make 8.11

Does that mean you guys arent looking at her plant health anymore?

atlıkarıncaMay 30, 20182 votes

I'd like to see something about Lissandra at PBE today.

RiotMeddlerMay 30, 20187 votes

So would I, but it's not going to be the case unfortunately. I've got changes to W and E I think are in a good spot and could be PBE'd. Passive isn't coming together though. Given player frustration whenever we do anything with Lissandra that doesn't include a better passive going to hold other changes until it's ready, whenever that be.

SalsonMay 30, 20182 votes

What can we expect from Atma and Spear of Shoujin is the next PBE patch? Same things or maybe some adjustments?

RiotRiot MapleNectarMay 30, 20185 votes

We're still iterating on them - though likely to not be drastic changes before 8.11.

catjugMay 30, 20182 votes

You previously talked about Kindred and how there may be buffs to her, any news about that?

RiotRiot MapleNectarMay 30, 20186 votes

These changes are going live for her in 8.11

Mark of the Kindred Mark Respawn Time :: 50 seconds >>> 40 seconds First Mark Time :: 2:20 >>> 2:05 [BUGFIX] :: Assists on Rift Scuttler now appropriately collect marks

MurderousMonarchMay 30, 20182 votes

Hey Meddler. Anything on Evelynn ? She seems very weak after the scuttler meta rolled in and while the change to Runic Echo's will surely help, It feels like she could use a bit more love.

RiotRiot MapleNectarMay 30, 20184 votes

We'd be waiting until the change to Runic goes live with 8.11 and evaluate after that. If she's still weak, she'll swing through a patch cycle at some point I'm sure. We're paying a lot of attention to magic damage dealers in the jungle atm.

zecastarMay 30, 20185 votes

[{quoted}](name=Maple Nectar,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=EQ6VnjTH,comment-id=00390000,timestamp=2018-05-30T17:05:41.546+0000)

We'd be waiting until the change to Runic goes live with 8.11 and evaluate after that. If she's still weak, she'll swing through a patch cycle at some point I'm sure. We're paying a lot of attention to magic damage dealers in the jungle atm.

Is Ekko still getting some jg help for AS? I see some others are but I can't even go Machete first on him anymore successfully because it's harder to proc. passive effectively. In general, Ekko jg suffered A LOT from the changes. His winrae is sub 47% in plat+ and diamond+. It used to be 49% in plat+... which is still pretty bad considering it's a sub 1% play rate and mostly mains but he just can't fight for scuttlers well and doesn't clear fast or scale like graves.

one of my biggest struggles with him is that ap itemization is just too punishing in jg. I just get 1 shot by kha/rengar/shaco etc. so I have to build tankier on Ekko but then my damage really falls off and I tend to lack cdr. also, if I don't build tankier, I become far too gold dependent for a jg champ + 1 slight mistake or them simply not staying in my w/q/r etc. and I essentially wasted all that gold on damage since I can't frontline at all either. I tried ibg but I don't need 800 mana from my first 2 items and then I'm very vulnerable vs magic or I do far too little damage if I go mercs. it's a real itemization struggle. I'd much have preferred 500 mana but 7% ms to gank and position well. I liked deadman's plate after runic but it falls off mid game and again cdr is a problem. if there were an item with defense vs magic and 20% cdr, my builds would be fixed but I know sv once had 20% and that was reduced. long story short, I can't find a good build for Ekko in he jg. I think he needs MR & Armor as well as penetration and an early game spike. right now, the easiest way to get cdr is to buy items like ibg or fh but those items are really shitty without a lot of HP and it's not like I can go warmog's first item either. I think ad champs have it so much better for itemization. team wide utility with black cleaver + a nice HP stick so you can then get resist items like maw or thorn without feeling bad about it. meanwhile as an AP jg, what do I do? roa? trash because of too much mana and no cdr. ibg? too much mana and no ms or defense vs magic? deadman's? minimal damage and again no cdr. protobelt? lacks team utility like black cleaver has with the shred, only 10% cdr, not that slot efficient and I don't want an active item that doesn't scale. the % pen on black cleaver is great no matter if behind or ahead or if you are doing badly but your adc is at least doing well. jg needs to be somewhat bruiserish to be viable in team comps beyond just hoping to snowball or to have a ton of gold and APs have shit itemization for it. I've even considered rylai's + liandry's but no resists are an issue and no cdr is even more problematic.

Corki and 8.11. Do you think this will be worse for him overall? I gave up on him since the base AD nerf but true damage crits. might be useful since he doesn't really want to build void staff anyway.

SpodosMay 30, 20182 votes

Have you guys considered adding a second AP jungle item? Part of the challenge is that not all AP champions want the same thing in the jungle. The extra mana and CDR is great for some, but for a champ like Eve that doesn't struggle with mana but really craves movespeed, some stats are wasted on the new Runic.

The parallel would be Warrior vs. Bloodrazor. One is for more burst or ability oriented AD junglers, and the other is more oriented to sustain / auto attack champs. Maybe a similar structure for AP items - one focused on mana and sustain, and another focused on movespeed / mobility - would help?

GurdiMay 30, 20181 votes

One of the challenges there will be managing both an increase in solo carry potential (another goal) with reducing early game snowball, given things that do one will often clash with the other.

I would really like to get more information on how you guys want to increase solo carry potential with respect to snowballing being tightly linked to that in the current system. Are you looking for champion, items or other game mechanic changes to increase solo carry potential while reducing snowballing?

SirPurrrMay 30, 20187 votes

{quoted}

I would really like to get more information on how you guys want to increase solo carry potential with respect to snowballing being tightly linked to that in the current system. Are you looking for champion, items or other game mechanic changes to increase solo carry potential while reducing snowballing?

I was optimistic about the shut down gold but it's often pretty random so it seems to just disproportionately favor kits with more frequent damage ticks.

I really hope they fix the atrocious rng scuttler design. I don't want rng elements in jg and it's hard to give a shit about this game when seeing such absurdly terrible decisions in a competitive "strategy" game. One minute is not enough to properly path to scuttler or plan anything. I should know its spawn location at all times even if it alternates randomly. It can be marked on the ground like in the dragon pit. The more I see changes like this, the more I realize that the danger in Riot ruining their own game is so high that they probably need to slow down. The game is only usually good for 3 months in the year and S4 felt way more fun than this (the season with camp smites was cool too).

WindLord7070May 30, 20181 votes

Any news on lane nidalee getting help?

RiotRiot MapleNectarMay 30, 20185 votes

She's on our short list of potential projects - no timeline for it atm, since it's a really solid opportunity, but it's also harder to land in a good way.