Quick Gameplay Thoughts: April 28

RiotMeddler·4/28/2017, 3:48:54 PM·1 votes·31,901 views

Hey all,

Usual deal, thoughts on some stuff below. Next week should be looking a bit more at 7.10 stuff and then thoughts on how the mid-season changes have landed/what followup's needed.


Twitter Updates

From today on in addition to posting stuff here I'll also be tweeting out a link to these posts. @RiotMeddler / https://twitter.com/riotmeddler should you wish to follow for those. Will probably use the account for the occasional other thing as well at some point.


Possible 7.10 work

Now that the 7.9 patch has been locked (we're in the final testing period, so can't put any more changes into it) we've started looking at 7.10 changes. It's likely there'll be a fair bit of followup to mid-season needed, so it's hard to speak definitively about what will be in 7.10, work we're looking at though includes:

  • Malz - W changes to make his solo laning more rewarding, reduce unhealthy impact of his support play (lack of good counterplay especially)
  • Heimer - Still looking at him, with focus points being late game effectiveness, better gameplay around turrets for enemies (melee ones especially) and being a better mid laner.
  • Rammus - Looking at some tweaks aimed at giving a bit more satisfaction/skill expression to ability use, clearer counterplay and a bit of modernization (e.g. more consistent collision checking on Powerball)

Talking about potential work like Heimer's

A little while back I mentioned we were going to try and get some work on Heimer in during 7.8 if time permitted. That didn't end up being possible though and 7.9 was busy enough it didn't make it in there either. As above It's still something we plan on doing at some point, but doesn't yet have a guaranteed patch date and that's something I wanted to talk about a little.

When talking about upcoming work we've got two options. The first is to only talk about something when it's got an all but definite release date and is in a pretty final state. The second is to talk about things we're working on or planning to work on, but don't necessarily know exactly when we'll finish or what the exact changes might be. My inclination is to at least some of the time talk about work, like that Heimer stuff that's subject to change, on the theory that that both lets people give feedback earlier when it matters more and gives better insight into what we're thinking about. That does have the downsides though that sometimes stuff will get mentioned without details, get mentioned and not happen or get mentioned but take quite a while to happen. That seems like an ok thing to me, would love to hear people's thoughts though.

158 Comments

Mordepool4/28/2017, 4:09:52 PM28 votes

As for talking about potential work down the line for some champions. Or nothing until locked in
##Just keep talking alot of We Board enthusiasts help spread the word. To people who miss the memo

MrBuffington4/28/2017, 4:42:22 PM6 votes

{quoted}

When talking about upcoming work we've got two options. The first is to only talk about something when it's got an all but definite release date and is in a pretty final state. The second is to talk about things we're working on or planning to work on, but don't necessarily know exactly when we'll finish or what the exact changes might be. My inclination is to at least some of the time talk about work, like that Heimer stuff that's subject to change, on the theory that that both lets people give feedback earlier when it matters more and gives better insight into what we're thinking about. That does have the downsides though that sometimes stuff will get mentioned without details, get mentioned and not happen or get mentioned but take quite a while to happen. That seems like an ok thing to me, would love to hear people's thoughts though.

Why not a bit of both, with disclaimers/section headings? And if something gets delayed/cancelled, a quick update like "Heimer changes delayed" would be sufficient. I know you want to keep these informal/not be patch notes and just have discussions about upcoming stuff, but I feel like a bit more rigid structure wouldn't hurt. Like have an running list of things y'all are looking at and update the items as necessary, something like (completely hypothetical here):

In Beddler with Meddler: 4/20

[standard quick gameplay thoughts]


Upcoming changes Anivia : passive looking a touch too weak, working on ways to improve interactions without giving too much power item 3170 : looking to take power out of stats and put more power into active/passives to increase interaction


Future directions

Fiddlesticks : Fiddlesticks mini-rework postponed (see In Beddler with Meddler 4/14 for more information) Nasus : currently exploring ways to increase lane interactions and jungle strength summoner 30 : exploring ways to implement in SR, perhaps as a skin for epic monsters

Zielmann4/28/2017, 4:07:43 PM6 votes

Any chance of allowing Rammus to activate blast cones while in powerball? And maybe Kennen while in lightning rush (similar situation)? Or is that potentially too much added power?

Regarding talking about future stuff, I'm all for it. I think it would help understand your team's thought processes when considering major changes, and the goals behind those changes.

iahim984/28/2017, 8:36:22 PM5 votes

Meddler about the Gargoyle Stoneplate case with true damage, instead of making gimmick changes to it that will hurt everyone so it won't be abused by 2-3 champs, make it an exception and reduce the true damage dealt OR just make it so it gives a shield instead of actual hp (sorry Vandiril), and it would solve the hp scaling problem too.

The Yetii Rider4/28/2017, 4:27:41 PM4 votes

Will we see any work on Rek'Sai in 7.10?

Forhonor3214/28/2017, 5:15:25 PM4 votes

Out of curiosity what ever happened to the changes to Cass with the smoother tail movements like Sol? Did they get scrapped, are still being worked on, or just forgotten? It's been quite some time now since we've heard about it.

Also, can we get some news or updates on Urgot, like teasers coming soon or an expected PBE patch to see him in?

LankPants4/28/2017, 4:19:03 PM4 votes

Malz - W changes to make his solo laning more rewarding, reduce unhealthy impact of his support play (lack of good counterplay especially)

Can we expect any similar changes to Zyra who's also seen her mid role become increasingly marginalised in favour of her support role and who's support role honestly has similar problems with her whole "drop 3 plants instantly win any trade" thing she has going on?

Jus de Castagne4/28/2017, 4:45:03 PM4 votes

Do you plan any change on Rakan ? He seems kinda weak atm

Onkel Malte4/28/2017, 5:03:14 PM3 votes

I'm excited to see those Malzahar changes, because his W is so inconsitent in terms of damage and it's his main damage source overall.

Allthough I don't really think you can fix something that is broken beyond repair... :/

Winterkill4/28/2017, 5:24:08 PM3 votes

I don't know much about the new support item changes but did Spelltheif lose its damage increase against other champions? I am really not believing that you guys are going to continue putting off the support role for another year, since it was already announced that divers will be next. You have tried several times to make the starting items more interesting and it all has failed. What do you plan to do next after this turns out to be a failure as well?

sonics shadow5/2/2017, 12:36:17 AM2 votes

The LOL League system needs to be adjusted. There needs to be a new rule where people that have less than a 40% win rate be banned from ranked games till next season. Or if they constantly feed, forever. This will make it so that the ranked pool is not toxic for thoes in bronze. The way the system is now; you cant climb out of bronze what so ever. It is not possible. I have come close and got to the 100lp. However i lost two games and now i cant ever get out of bronze because people think that it is just a place to f around. Kick all the people that cant play out of bronze and then it will be fixed. Or make it a double kind of thing. If someone has a 0lp score more than 40% of the time then ban them. something to get the worst players out of the system, so that they dont drag everyone down with them.

Linna Excel4/28/2017, 4:16:53 PM2 votes

Why does riot hate Caitlyn? I thought that she looks fine aside from maybe needing a slightly newer model. Why are you trying to gut her visuals when people like her?

Palemon III4/28/2017, 4:30:57 PM2 votes

What are your guys thoughts on Kled? Is he in a good state?

Càne4/28/2017, 4:33:29 PM2 votes

Still waiting on that rek'sai update you promised some months ago

RNG Zinou4/28/2017, 5:03:10 PM2 votes

MEDLLER What are your thoughts on gangplank Popularity,win rate,crit and bruiser builds?and are there any future plans for tri force item 3078 ?

Meep Man4/28/2017, 5:07:51 PM2 votes

What if you guys just removed the normal shot portion of Heimer's turrets? This would make them weaker against melee champions, while buffing them against ranged units. It also makes them be a little bit less of "mini stat checks" since you can avoid their damage. This would:

  1. Make turret placement much more important to make dodging the lasers harder
  2. Make melee champions have an easier time fighting turrets
  3. Make turrets have a better chance when fighting ranged champions
  4. Make Heimerdinger think about whether he wants to sit behind his turrets or go in to mark champions with AAs to make turrets perfectly prioritize them

It seems to be a huge win to me, especially if you bump up the projectile speed, charge time, and range on the laser aspect of the turrets, making Heimerdinger a much better "Siege Champion" since he would put the enemy under a constant barrage of lasers, but not really wreck the tower. This would translate to him being a better late game champion since his main problem late game is when the "my turrets instantly die due to huge, indirect late game damage" situation happens. If turrets were longer range, this would make them usually not be in the front line/"middle line" so any damage reaching them would be deliberate and with purpose.

Something like: Damage- 40/60/80/105/130 (+55% AP) -> 50/75/100/125/150 (+65% AP) Range- Increased by 66%~ Projectile Speed- Increased by 80%~ Delay- Increased slightly Charge Time- Now gathers 25/31.25/37.5/43.75/50% charge per second (possibly increased by cool down reduction) Normal Attack- Removed

P.S. Maybe also make turrets that are currently active automatically rank up whenever you level the ability OR make them scale by level. It's annoying to have to replace all of your turrets to make them stronger whenever you level the ability.

MunchCrunchLunch4/28/2017, 5:09:11 PM2 votes

What about Ahri's generalisticism? also Lucian's item 3071 item 3047 item 3046 makes him harder to kill than frontliners. due to mobility and those items

warpenguin5554/28/2017, 5:10:26 PM2 votes

OMG Riot talked about Malzahar. I can die happier now

Skyroar4/28/2017, 6:57:15 PM2 votes

Can Riot also look at making Malz's E a bit more satisfying outside of being a tool to control his voidlings?

For example, putting points in E increases its mana cost, but offers very little to make up for that (the base damage is low). It's also a very slow skill at clearing waves late game, and it's really bad against super minions and baron minions.

Against players, it's generally a fine skill after you build up some AP and mana, but against minion waves, it's not as satisfying as it used to be.

warpenguin5554/28/2017, 8:28:04 PM2 votes

Will Azir and Kalista have to wait longer for their mini updates because of all the delays Rek'Sai is getting?

FatMansRevenge4/28/2017, 3:52:43 PM2 votes

How has the Shen changes looked from your end? It seems that a split pushing/duelist with Ferver build is popping up in Korea. Is that a direction you're comfortable with for him, or would you like him to stay primarily a tank?

4GLTE4/29/2017, 8:24:19 AM2 votes

And not even the sands of shurima know when Azir returns to the rift...

DCYOUNG8884/28/2017, 4:43:14 PM1 votes

A few questions. When will the new subclass list be posted? I remember you said sometime around May. What new changes will we see in the new subclass list besides new champs added in there?

EDIT: Will existing champions that have their playstyle/kit changed such as Maokai and Rek'sai be moved to a different subclass?