Quick Gameplay Thoughts: October 25

RiotMeddler·Oct 25, 2017·1 votes·55,489 views

Morning folks,

Usual Disclaimers

These posts will often contain talk about future work we're doing, or planning to do, that isn't yet guaranteed to ship. The nature of the work could change or, depending on what we discover, projects mentioned may get put delayed or even stopped. If you'd like to see a Tweet whenever a new one of these posts goes up: https://twitter.com/RiotMeddler

Runes back on the PBE

We're in the home stretch before runes go live and they're back on the PBE again now we're past the 7.21 testing period. We've made significant changes to a number of runes since the system was originally revealed, some of which haven't got as much visibility (and therefore testing) as others. Feedback, particularly from people who've played them in game, highly appreciated on:

Guardian - Now triggers on spell casts on allies/priority, compared to version initially shown which was right click on ally.

Sudden Impact - Now also works after exiting stealth, not just on dash/teleport.

Press the Attack - Now deals damage after 3 auto attacks on the target, followed by amping all damage against them for 6 seconds (was stacking AD/AP).

Presence of Mind - Now gives you free spell casts for 5 seconds after level up or takedown (used to restore mana by auto attacking when lowish on mana).

Arcane Comet - Cooldown now reduces whenever you damage an enemy champion with an ability (should be much more appealing on champs with frequent spell casts or DoTs)

Adjusting Jungle XP and Catch up XP in pre-season

We'll be adjusting how jungle XP's earned somewhat in pre-season as is probably already on PBE at this point. TLDR is only catch up xp on large/epic monsters instead of all, some changes to individual camp xp, less ambient catch up XP. More details and our thinking about why these changes in a separate dev corner post to come shortly.

Edit: Looks like that post's out already and had plenty of discussion already. Link for anyone that's missed it though:

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/24K8ORZQ-catch-up-experience-and-jungle-changes-in-722

Minions/Monsters spawning 10s earlier in pre-season

Another change we'll be making in pre-season is having minions and monsters spawn 10s earlier than they normally would (e..g red/blue buff spawning at 1.30, not 1.40). Goal there's to remove a bit of time that's usually just spent by people afk/alt tabbed. At the same time we don't want to make jungle invades too hard to pull off, so to preserve similar timings on those we'll be increasing the speed bonus from the game start Homeguard effect as well.

Couple of pre-season changes moving to 7.23 instead of 7.22

Almost all of the pre-season stuff will be in 7.22, we'll have a few things though that will be a patch later however. Those are a slight increase to minion movement speed after 20 minutes and minion damage to towers (helps with split pushing for champs who don't themselves do as much tower damage in particular), plus a small increase to overall tower health (leaving towers as tough, or slightly tougher, overall, even accounting for the extra minion damage).

http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/6.24.1/img/champion/Ziggs.png

207 Comments

ImaginesTigersOct 25, 201728 votes

With jungle camps spawning earlier, dont forget to make Bard's chimes do so too! Last time it slipped your minds

RiotMeddlerOct 25, 201714 votes

Definitely. We've got a check list of a lot more things this time :).

AnataBakkaOct 25, 20171 votes

i don't know if you can do something about this, but i always planted Illaoi's Tentacles before minions spawned, this will ruin everything :(

TheHappyReaperzOct 25, 20172 votes

You will have faster home guards, so you will get to lane before the minions still, and still have time to set up your tentacles.

AnataBakkaOct 25, 20172 votes

let's see how fast tho xD thx!

EROTIC RAID BOSSOct 25, 201717 votes

so when you hotfixing galio's Q damage?

also, why the change to guardian? I thought it was pretty cool you could use the shield by rightclicking and have that much control over when to use it. sounds like now you cant really use it on someone like thresh, though he has other good options anyway

RiotMeddlerOct 25, 201714 votes

We'll be looking at Galio today to see if something's needed there or not.

We liked the right click approach to Guardian too in theory. In practice it led to far too many accidental activations though.

Hipster SoraOct 25, 201716 votes

"if something's needed there or not"

lol uh, he's the burstiest champ in the game while also being one of the tankiest. Yes, something needs to be hotfixed.

RiotMeddlerOct 25, 201741 votes

I'll stand by that phrasing yeah. Even if he were to turn out to be the most ridiculously busted thing in the game ever we should still be looking at what's actually going on in game, not just what's being argued on Boards, Reddit etc to make an assessment on what to do.

Urane KingOct 25, 20175 votes

that's it Mr.Meddler

Rovert duBelmontOct 25, 20172 votes

Hypothetically, if you guys were to hotfix galio, what numbers would you tweak? A slight dial-back of the AP ratio buffs? Or something else?

I suppose y'all also have to wait for data to confirm what needs to be hit, if hit at all.

RiotMeddlerOct 25, 20179 votes

Depends on the issue. If his Q is just doing far too much damage over its duration then I'd expect AP ratio on the % damage most likely.

Or if he's now too tanky, maybe the W AP ratio.

Or maybe he's on average balanced, but when heavily snowballed does inappropriate things even for a snowballed state, which might mean looking at his power curve in general.

Malicious MetalOct 25, 201716 votes

That's unacceptable! I demand you Gut him on the spot! His changes have been life for a few hours, that's more than enough time to give him a taste of the Nerfhammer!

RiotMeddlerOct 25, 201765 votes

BRB, nerfing Morde.

Kei143Oct 25, 20174 votes

[slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

Malicious MetalOct 25, 201712 votes

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/4Vd1JP56G2w/hqdefault.jpg

~~I bloody love you Andrei~~

NightWind42Oct 27, 20173 votes

YOU TAKE THAT BACK RIGHT NOW

Zero Skill TankOct 25, 20174 votes

I really don't want to be rude, but AP Galio's Q literally does enough damage to one shot superminions, and it doesn't even take any crazy build, just regular RoA mage - how did it even make it outside of PBE? Isn't anyone monitoring new content ATM? I get that this is the busiest time of year for you Rioters, but really, AP Galio is your biggest slip in a long, long time.

I just hope you will find time for a hotfix. At VERY least, minion damage needs to be capped, one shoting superminions just should not happen, much less be a standard for any champion. [katarina-love]

GMLexaOct 25, 201714 votes

Please bring back the old press the attack.. why does everything has to look/feel like thunderlords? The ad stacking was way better and fun to play with.. This one feels like thunderlords for adcs .. like cmon now

RiotMeddlerOct 25, 20177 votes

The main issue with the old Press the Attack was how heavily it shared space with Lethal Tempo. Both were increased auto attack damage, over a sustained period of time. That meant that, with some exceptions, which to take was too often just a mathematical optimization.

Secondary benefits we saw to this change also include making the Precision tree more accessible to non marksmen/skirmishers (the team damage amp helping a lot with that) and addressing some edge cases with split pushers getting the prior Press the Attack to enormous stacking AD/AP values.

This Is My ZoneOct 25, 20173 votes

Why didn’t you change lethal tempo then? To me this Keystone seems like the most generic option for most ADCs without making any distinction in terms of your play style. I like the part that the attack speed cap is broken, but getting huge amouts of attack speed is just too good. Thoughts?

TormentulaOct 25, 201711 votes

May I ask if there's potential room for an Evelynn change? Evelynn

I see extra buffs on the PBE, but personally and looking at the eve mains reddit, what we really hate is her wave clear. Most assassins can split push or siege else where if they're not able to team fight properly (especially in tankier team comps). I've personally been picking eve up and I think I'm getting the hang of her, she's a skill cap champ and her damage is there, the one shot potential if you know who to go for and setup on is pretty good, she just has the same issues other assassins have right now. (tons of shields to go through).

I can't even hold lanes and about every time I'll be lucky if I manage 1 CS out of just holding my laner's tower.

Is there potential room for something along the lines of 25-50% bonus damage to minions? I don't see lane eve becoming prominant nor do I see it breaking jungle eve, it would at least give her one feeling back old eve had, wave clear. If something messy happens mid/top with her I suppose it can get reverted anytime.

CàneOct 25, 201710 votes

Please buff camille's jungle clear like you did with ekko. She's so much fun in the jungle!

I am RazgrizOct 25, 20173 votes

If they did I'd actually play her.

La BelloOct 25, 201710 votes

Can you please make item 3050 interact with AP again somehow? One of the coolest things about pre-rework Zekes was that it gave both 50% crit chance AND a 30% bonus to ability power thus the item was still viable in more...obscure lanes

and Annie Nami and Leona Morgana and Malzahar
Mordekaiser and Trundle are all some more unconventional AP focused lanes me and my friends enjoyed trying but with the new update to Zekes its interaction with ability power was lost. It would be nice if more support itemization and effects benefited a wider pool of champions rather than just being geared for Right clickers (The already have Stoneborn Pact and item 3504 which is directly more effective with AS) .

So can you guys look into allowing the "Burn" part apply on magic damage or maybe giving its burn a AP ratio too? thanks in advance

Evil YasuoOct 25, 20178 votes

I'm going to write this here in hopes any of you care since i'm so passionate about assassins Obligatory ADC meta talk and ADC's/mages burst faster than assassins at a safer distance with life steal or cc SLOWING ASSASSIN'S BURST SPEEDS DOWN WAS A MISTAKE BECAUSE The only thing this did was making them more cancerous in the laning phase and harder to kill ADC's. Assassins thing was they get fed and snowball, whether people consider that annoying or not. They're supposed to counter ADC's, just as you've said tanks counter assassins. Now rengar and leblanc are ruined, I dislike talon and shaco is, well you guys know what happened to shaco. I've already posted many really good ideas of how to keep Talon's current kit while giving him his old ult and rake so I won't bother reposting. Leblanc and Talon were only annoying while fed (like every champ, heh?) It was only after the rework she became a problem.

Basically what i'm saying is, at least please consider giving assassin's their burst speeds back. There really was no point to it and now we have this overwhelming ADC meta that no one can kill.

09 04 1336Oct 25, 20176 votes

Thoughts on Fizz and his rework ? Can he possibly get a small rework like rek'sai ? His kit is clunky and made like a bruiser.

RizHippoKhanOct 25, 20176 votes

i've played galio only a few times just before the rework , and i can say that the new changes make it feel like im playing the old galio again, soo much better and fun!

also what do are your thoughts on Shyvana , Shen & Talon ?

SpideraxeOct 25, 20175 votes

Hey Meddler can I ask which champs you want to take a look at with mini reworks when you get back to them?

RiotMeddlerOct 25, 20177 votes

We'll talk about a candidate or two there in a while, for now though we're really focused on pre-season and I don't want to start making implied promises about updates until we've got some proven direction for them.

Better JunglerOct 25, 20175 votes

Jungle camps are all worth the same creep score. One consistent issue in judging the impact of a jungler v. jungler match-up is that creep score can mean vastly different things. This is especially true if one champion specializes in single target camps while the other is an AoE monster. Now each camp in its entirety will grant 4 creep score, which generally matches the camps’ value and should provide for easier comparison of a jungler to their direct opponent.

Can we get some insight to this jungle change? It's being torn apart by the boards, and is terrible from every perspective I can see from. I would REALLY appreciate red text on if this is written in stone, or if the feedback from the community is being taken into action. You're removing a MAJOR part of what makes a jungler good or bad, in that they can track the enemy jungler by cs.

DameshiOct 25, 20174 votes

Any future plans for summoner spells? It's been a long time since they've been touched much or a new one has been added. I know right now runes are the big project just wondering if it's on the radar at all, especially with the Summoner Specialist rune.

StarGuardianWeebOct 25, 20174 votes

Hey Meddler any comments on being able to allow rune adjusting in the practice tool? Also can we get a comment on voice comms? Mainly curious if that's still a thing, and if so I'd it a next year or "sometinetime soon (TM)" thing?

SaphirexOct 25, 20173 votes

Any information about the Ancient Coin item? I feel like it a low risk high rewarding item if you compare it to Relic Shield or Spellthiefs Edge. Champions like Janna, Lulu or Sona can use it without having a huge risk, if they pick up the coins.

Rayjay RedfangOct 25, 20173 votes

Can we expect itemization changes, new items, or any other large changes before season 8 or will these changes and the runes be about it( in terms of overall gameplay, not champs)?

This is sort of a random thought, but what are thoughts on having support items that allows sharing gold for all cs hit between two people. I ask because I always enjoy seeing a diverse duo lane, and due to how the game works, two carries cannot be in the same duo lane due to gold sharing. I came in season 6 so I do not know if this was tried and failed.

Solari FortuneOct 25, 20173 votes

Just kinda curious will Leona be getting Base Stat increases like the other tanks cause so far she has not gotten them yet.

EinarUlfarOct 25, 20173 votes

If the minion damage increase shortens current game time, will it be looked at? Very happy to see some kinda turret buff, but terrified of the game length being reduced any further. ):

TomiMan7Oct 25, 20172 votes

Hey

What are Your thoughts on Brand after the buffs? Are You guys happy how he turned out or will he see some adjustments after runes go live?

RiotMeddlerOct 25, 20175 votes

Looks like they helped him slightly, but he's still got a lot of challenges as a solo laner. That's not surprising, given didn't expect we'd be able to solve things that much with a quick change like this. We'll assess him, like all other champs, post Runes.

TomiMan7Oct 25, 20172 votes

Looking forward to it :)

Youre Outta LuxxOct 25, 20172 votes

Any particular reason why you changed compensatory AD buffs to champions from a universal +8 AD to anywhere between 7 - 8.5 for different champions?

I don't understand why Zed needs to get 8.5 AD (more than any other champ), ability buffs, HP buffs, and armor buffs while other damage dealing champs get nothing but 7 AD and armor.

ZerverakisOct 25, 20174 votes

lethality is gone from the rooms

HenzoAFOct 25, 20172 votes

How does the refund on Comet works? What if my DoT is ticking and I use a AoE or Single Target, what will be prioritized? Can AoE MultiTrigger?

RiotMeddlerOct 25, 20176 votes

If you have a DoT ticking and use a spell both will reduce the CD. AOE spells that multihit will reduce the CD per target hit. Single target spell hits reduce the CD more than AOE spell hits, with each individual DoT tick reducing the CD by less again.

Also worth emphasizing that as a fairly newly added mechanic this one's still being tuned too, so the exact values in right now might need work.

ThryaleOct 25, 20171 votes

what about teemo poison? his E is triggered via AA's, not a castable ability. will it still reduce the cd of comet?

AtanchanOct 25, 20174 votes

I imagine it's based around whether an ability procs spell effects, so if you can proc Rylai's with it, it'll lower Comet's CD. Which Teemo E doesn't.

ÆnÐeavørOct 25, 20172 votes

any news about leblanc rework guys ?

Stevev45Oct 25, 20172 votes

Presence of Mind - Now gives you free spell casts for 5 seconds after level up or takedown (used to restore mana by auto attacking when lowish on mana).

Now that it doesn't restore mana using Auto attacks it doesn't fit in the precision tree. Since that's the tree that features "Improved attacks and sustained damage" That rune is a better fit in the sorcery tree that is suposed to feature "Empowered abilities and resource manipulation".

Gen the RengodOct 25, 20172 votes

revert rengar pls

champagnearci7Oct 26, 20172 votes

I am really disappointed about the planned changes for Ryze that should have hit before 7.22. Hope this time those will hit and be impactful on the champion, maybe increasing his skill floor because it is really unhealthy to play against and feels really week when is picked. May Ryze players have at least some leak about what is going to happen meanwhile we wait 7.23?