Quick Gameplay Thoughts: December 14

RiotMeddler·Dec 14, 2018·1 votes·168,223 views

Hi folks,

Usual Disclaimers

These posts will often contain talk about future work we're doing, or planning to do, that isn't yet guaranteed to ship. The nature of the work could change or, depending on what we discover, projects mentioned may get delayed or even stopped. If you'd like to see a Tweet whenever a new one of these posts goes up: https://twitter.com/RiotMeddler

Taunt Lines

Something we've been trying for a while is having some champion taunt VO play automatically when champions first see specific other champions. We think that's been pretty successful, with taunt lines set up that way getting played more than champ specific lines that require the player to use the taunt emote near the correct enemy. We're looking at shifting a lot of those older lines to automatic triggers early next year as a result. Current plan is some will still remain as manual triggers where the line's out of context, immersion breaking etc, but most would get moved over.

Feedback, both on the concept and once changes hit PBE much appreciated. Champions likely to benefit in particular are those who are fairly new, so have a lot of taunt lines recorded, including Aurelion Sol, Azir, Ekko, Evelynn, Galio, Illaoi, Irelia, Jhin, Maokai, Sion, Swain, Tahm Kench, Taliyah, Urgot and Xayah. We might also have every champ use a general taunt line the first time they see an enemy champion nearby, still debating that.

State of Neeko

Neeko's been out for a bit now and, win rate wise at least, started off looking very strong for a just released champ. She hasn't ended up being extremely dominant however. Much of her kit's pretty easy to pick up if you've played a lot of mages before, with familiar skill tests and play pattern. The main difference from other champs as you'd expect is her deception play, the passive especially. So far it looks like the playing against Neeko learning curve might be scaling at around the same rate as the playing as Neeko learning curve for once, which is quite unusual.

Balance wise, we are planning on cutting a bit of base damage off Neeko's Q in 8.24b. No other plans beyond that at present, though we're still keeping an eye on the R ratio in particular.

Last post of the year

Thanks for reading folks! Since 8.24b's going out and we're nearly at the holiday season this is going to be the last of these posts for the year. We're still in the office for a while of course, but will be focusing on some longer term work for a bit before the break. Hope the remainder of 2018 treats you well, I'm really looking forward to all the stuff we've got planned for 2019 and getting to talk about it with you all. Should be back to the normal posts twice a week routine in early January.

http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/6.24.1/img/champion/Ziggs.png

263 Comments

Frosted TipsDec 14, 201817 votes

Shyvana has one of the worst passives in the game. Up there with MonkeyKing . Anyone looking into either of them?

D4M2X0Dec 14, 201812 votes

armor items are useless and bruiser itemization + conqueror are overpowered.

SpideraxeDec 14, 20188 votes

Hey Meddler Mort mentioned on Reddit that you guys are planning on spinning up some balance changes for ARAM in 2019, would you be able to share any details on that. Also cheers for a year's worth of communication, really appreciate these posts. Do you have any holidays plans yourself

RiotMeddlerDec 14, 201821 votes

We'll likely do a balance pass on ARAM sometime in the first half of 2019, assuming things with the Nexus Blitz balance pass continue to go well. Plan would be a similar approach of harder to feel things (e.g. some base stats) so that champs don't feel like they play differently but are brought down in power a bit. No specific details available yet though, that work hasn't started.

Holiday wise it's going to be Christmas with my GF's family, some time with friends and hopefully a lot of video games :). Might get out of LA briefly, no specific plans for that yet though.

SpideraxeDec 14, 20185 votes

Have fun!

True GarenDec 19, 20183 votes

{quoted}

But, where are our "emote" sales?

ARE YOU PC BRODec 14, 20188 votes

Karma stares in Ionian

MudintheWaterDec 14, 20188 votes

Are you guys going to let Jax maintain a high pick rate and winrate in multiple lanes like it's not problematic?

Salvor HardınDec 14, 20187 votes

Do you guys have anything planned for Rek´Sai? I think it needs changes to make it easier to use for new players, especially the sonar.

RâyaneDec 14, 20187 votes

Up udyr plz

beanyDec 14, 20186 votes

Any thoughts on the difficulty balancing Viktor for different skill orders and item builds in the last couple months? He keeps being pushed towards scaling which seems a detriment considering the faster pace of games.

I recall at some point you said viktor could use some ability redesign.

XeRan0thDec 14, 20186 votes

Any plans for a new yordle champ?

ModKnightsKemplarDec 14, 20185 votes

Thanks for the communication that you've brought to the community in these posts this year, Meddler. I know it's a commitment to do these and to maintain a schedule for them. I have really appreciated my Wednesday and Friday afternoon mini-breaks from work to read your updates.

Happy holidays to you and the rest of the Riot team, and I'm looking forward to an eventful season 9! Cheers!

Wukong AirlinesDec 14, 20185 votes

@Meddler, so Xin Zhao mini-rework was successful, Ezreal mini-rework was a success too.

Can we invest in Wukong now? He seriously needs: -Model update -Ability icons update -Completely new passive -Change to his damage to be less bursty -Give him some %HP damage or any other scaling so he doesn't rely on lethality

At some point you'll have to work on him, he's one of the champions in the game and you can't keep ignoring him for more than 5 years, it's already more than 1700 days, we're nearing 5 years of 0 change to Wukong.

JoeAnarchyDec 15, 20185 votes

please shave some damage off of Neeko's R

Point MatchDec 15, 20185 votes

Hi, Meddler. What about Aatrox nerf? Just bring the hammer already... his Q is way too powerful.

Neeko: The core problem with Neeko is her ultimate. It actually has no cooldown when we compare her ultimate to Fiddle, Amumu, Zyra. Neeko base damage has twice damage as them (with no cooldown) and better ap ratio. Her W has no cost too, Why is that? Did you forget how you nerfed Kog W because it was without mana cost too?

here are the stats /without cdr items: Zyra cooldown: 130 / 120 / 110 - Damage: 180 / 265 / 350 (+ 70% AP) Fiddle cooldown: 140 / 110 / 80 - Damage (per sec): 125 / 225 / 325 (+ 45% AP) Amumu cooldown: 150 / 130 / 110 - Damage: 150 / 250 / 350 (+ 80% AP) **Neeko **cooldown: 90 all ranks (90/90/90) - Damage: 250 / **425 **/ **650 **(+ 130% AP)

Of course, it makes no sense to mages to not buy cdr at all so let check it! By lv16 with full cdr (40) - Neeko still has the best cooldown (12s) expect Fiddlesticks (6s) and yet, what a massive difference of damage without the ap ratio.

Zyra cooldown: 66s Fiddle cooldown: 48s Amumu cooldown: 66s **Neeko **cooldown: 54s

By the way, Kennen lv16 with max cdr (40) = 72s ultimate. Please do not forget Neeko gain a shield too unlike the rest.

PandaNator43Dec 14, 20184 votes

Is Agency the same as Power?

Seen this debate pop up a few times recently, would love to hear your take.

RiotMeddlerDec 14, 201818 votes

I don't believe so. Something can be really powerful, in terms of how it affects the outcome of the game, how others play around it etc, without the player controlling it necessarily having a lot of personal agency. To take an extreme example, if we imagine a champion who does nothing but move slowly and melee auto attack towers killing them instantly they're likely a very powerful champion. Their team mates and enemies actions will matter a lot in terms of how impactful that power is (peel, rotations etc). There's not much the player of said tower killing champ can really do themselves though, so while the champion's effect on the game will be very powerful the player controlling them doesn't have that much agency over how things turn out relative to other players.

Night 25Dec 14, 201819 votes

Did you mean: Nasus Nasus

Very Cash MoneyDec 14, 20186 votes

However is the opposite true? Can you have high agency without it leading to power?

At that I feel the answer almost has to be a no, if you have agency it invetiably mean you have the power to push further and dictate the pace.

Do you think that is true? Or can you have low-power agency.

BaritoneBardDec 14, 20182 votes

I think you can have agency without power, although the two typically go hand in hand. If we're defining power as "the impact that the champ has when played well", then agency is "the ability to raise/lower your champ's impact through choices, skill, and gameplay". An inverse example of the tower-killing robot would be a champ that can do pretty much nothing but fly around placing wards, you have lots of control over how much of an impact this has (dropping all your wards in spawn vs. efficiently tracking the enemy jungler and maintaining vision in important places), but the most you can do is give your team vision in a 4v5 game. Neither extreme is good, the best champs have similar power levels when played optimally, with a range of skill levels so that newer players have options to play champs that they can't screw up easily, while veteran players can take a champ with high agency and make the most of their game knowledge, skill, and reflexes.

9NINEDec 16, 20184 votes

and still no word of removing akali's true invis? why? What argument does half of you make for it to remain?

XxxLumberJackxxXDec 14, 20183 votes

@meddler Will Rammus' taunt be automatically triggered?

RiotInterlocutionerDec 14, 20183 votes

Since his taunt is an animation, no. First Encounters are currently only set up to trigger VO. Trick question?

NepgearDesuDec 14, 20182 votes

I wouldn't mind Rammus' E - Frenzying taunt to trigger on encounter. Well, if I'm the one playing him, that is.

RiotInterlocutionerDec 14, 20185 votes

Oh, that taunt. Yeah, we'll make that happen. [slayer-jinx-wink]

XzetaDec 14, 20183 votes

Any thoughts on nexus blitz ranked

RiotMeddlerDec 14, 201817 votes

Seems like a poor fit for the mode overall, in terms of how it would change perception and expectations. NB is aimed at being less about win/loss record, precise balance etc and more about high moments, a shorter experience, easier to play with friends of a range of skill levels etc. While I would expect adding ranked to appeal to a subset of possible players would expect it to be the wrong thing to do for the majority of likely NB players.

Support 4 LyfeDec 14, 201812 votes

Yes please, never make that mode competitive, it's meant for fun and it should be kept like that, we don't want anymore people getting tilted/mad whenever their team loses, they're there to blow off steam and it should be kept like that.

Support 4 LyfeDec 14, 20183 votes

Hey Meddler, personal question, do you prefer utility/enchanter supports (Soraka, Sona, Janna, Nami), aggressive supports (Zyra, Brand, Vel'Koz) or engagers/all-in supports (Alistar, Leona, Nautilus, Blitz, Braum)?

Have a great evening by the way <3

RiotMeddlerDec 14, 20187 votes

As in for my personal play? I've overall tended to favor less damage focused champs, with Nami and Alistar the two supports I've played the most of in recent years. Leona, Zyra and Brand are fallsbacks for me though who I'm happy to play whenever it makes sense team comp wise (cause you know, too many people picking tanks happens all the time in solo queue...).

SnowbrandDec 14, 20182 votes

Why isn't there any information about the range of Lissandras passive in the description of it or when you hover over it like Vayne for example? Intended or unintended? If intended then why?

RiotMeddlerDec 14, 20188 votes

At the time when I was implementing it the mouse over indicators weren't functioning on the prototype server we use internally. I'll see if I can add that in today, skipped my mind.

Range is currently the same as Lissandra's vision range. It'll also trigger on enemies who've been damaged by Lissandra within the last couple of seconds, so someone getting away but dying to Ignite etc still becomes a Frozen Thrall.

SyllvanasDec 14, 20182 votes

I always wondered why do the Thralls briefly stop and do the AA animation before exploding, I've had people running out of the explosion circle many times because of that and combined with the fact that they're pretty... slow.

Have you ever considered removing that and just make it so the Thralls keep chasing enemies until they explode?

RiotMeddlerDec 14, 20184 votes

The animation's in there to draw the eye to them as they end and provide a brief 'final chance to use an ability' window. The speed of the Thrall's has been tuned around that brief pause at the end (they'd be a bit slower overall if the kept moving right until the moment of detonation).

Kata Ga KillDec 14, 20182 votes

Pls Nerf Vladimir and Udyr Udyr , both have almost no weakness or can't be outplayed.

Its hard to play against them.

Vladimir is on Lane a hard Bully, no Mana and HP problems and becomes really strong with alot of Tankyness too. Further then he cant be ganked and item 3165 isnt helping much against heal too, and dont helps on your mana problems early. Hes really unfair in every state of game and time.

And Udyr faster then anything, he can literally overun every flasher and escape dirty from every bait. Also hes shielding every second and stunning makes him the Endboss, even Tryndamere is nothing to him.

Ouer only luck is, that they arent played so much, but if theyre picked good Players can always win with them.

NeekðDec 14, 20182 votes

Any updates on Akali so far? Are you still planning to go with the 3 W nerfs that were posted on twitter?

RiotMeddlerDec 14, 20182 votes

Yeah, current plan is to have those in 8.24b next week. After seeing how effective those are in adding shroud counterplay we'll then discuss whether to make other changes as well or not early next year.

NeekðDec 14, 20182 votes

Alright, thanks for the update. Longer time to stealth and a shimmer after stealthing sounds like a lot tho, I just hope Akali can stay strong/viable after all the changes.

RiotMeddlerDec 14, 20185 votes

At some point, whether after this round of shroud changes or additional ones if necessary, I expect we'll need to put some power back in somewhere else on her kit.

TheSingularityDec 14, 20189 votes

Why not remove the true stealth though? I want to play her and these nerfs will do nothing to her ban rate. No one cares if they can beat her, no one ever has. All they see is true stealth and ban her. They see a frustrating experience, like yasuo and his bloody windwall which you still haven't worked on despite past claims of work to be done. She could have a 20% winrate and people would STILL! ban her.

Let us akali players have our champ back, we don't need the bloody true stealth, we just need a lower ban rate

NandonutDec 14, 20181 votes

Not exactly on topic, but can something be done about automatic voice lines in response to taunt/joke? I'm all for the idea of bringing out more unique voicelines, particularly specific champion interaction ones which I feel like 90% of I've never heard in-game, but the ones that automatically trigger whenever, and every time, someone taunts or jokes become really obnoxious. I'm talking about 'Haha, I just got the joke' and 'Everyone has something clever to say...until the blades find their throat'.

It's cool every so often, but when it plays literally every time a nearby ally jokes/taunts, it becomes annoying and abusable pretty quickly... and if you're playing the champion in question, there's nothing you can do about it because it's controlled by an ally (I've found this happen most often in ARAM). I feel like i already have trauma from hearing those lines so ridiculously often. Excited about the stuff in this post though.

RiotInterlocutionerDec 14, 20185 votes

Yeah, these could probably be set up better to prevent abuse... (I wrote the Lux line, sorry. [zombie-brand-facepalm])

We're changing the way we work on VO behind the scenes, and this is the kind of thing we might be able to improve moving forward, thanks for the post!

Jericho AzariahDec 15, 20181 votes

you guys plan on going further in depth for frejlord, i read the details related to both ashe and tryndamere, and was surprised to know that ashe was actually forced to marry tryndamere in order to not start a fight between his tribe and hers; and when i started reading sejuani's lore it almost looked like sejuani would've gladly joined ashe's tribe, if it wasn't for the big mouth of the envoy that ashe sent in her place while she was attending other visit to neighboring tribes; sejuani was surprised to see such kindness offered to her tribe where many other tribes committed banditry towards them and raiding what little sejuani's tribe had for themselves.

And when i look at lissandra, i feel like she isn't the real villain but being misunderstood of her objective, the creature of which she is keeping frozen in ice was apparently so powerful that lissandra has to sacrifice the power of which her sisters possess and even then it still wasn't enough to end the creature, but magic infused ice was able to keep the creature in place and frozen, at this point she made it her objective along side surviving members of the conflict to search these magic crystal and use it to keep the void creature frozen; though i do not believe that worked as well, who is to say that the void creature isn't feeding off of the magic infused ice crystal and isn't far from powerless but has the capabilities of manipulating the minds of those around it, but fears of manipulating lissandra cause she was a good tool to go out and collect these crystals and if lissandra feels she is being manipulated into doing this she will completely stop the search for these crystal and find other means to destroy it, so instead of manipulating her it decided to take control of the survivors known as the "Frozen Watchers". With the cinematic video that was related to ryze and his goal, it showcased a creature within a frozen wall (of which the creature became frantic in obtaining the power of which ryze was holding), who is to say that this was the same creature of which lissandra put so much effort into stopping, and if this is the same creature then it only proves that lissandra's efforts is all for not and the creature is far from powerless and may be a more lethal breed of void creature then what is already known. [zombie-brand-mindblown] My head hurts after i did so much research within the lore behind the frejlord, though this isn't the first time i dove too deep within the lores inside of this game or the lore in another game.

RiotInterlocutionerDec 15, 20183 votes

We just announced a partnership with Marvel comics!! WAAARGHbobo is working on the first one, which will have some Freljord goodness!

https://www.marvel.com/articles/comics/marvel-and-riot-games-reveal-new-league-of-legends-special-edition

Jericho AzariahDec 15, 20182 votes

i did notice the news about it, but i fear they may do something that the community will be very disappointed about this whole partnership, and the question that i basically said to myself when i saw the couple of comic pages they had already developed; "why is ashe a blonde instead of having albino white hair".

RiotInterlocutionerDec 17, 20185 votes

I'll put it this way: WAAARGHbobo don't do accidents. I hope as more info trickles out, you'll start to get hyped!! [slayer-pantheon-rainbows]

intraDec 18, 20181 votes

My guess is that Ashe was blonde before she was transformed by grabbing Avarosa's bow which spread "cold" throughout her body.

Jericho AzariahDec 18, 20182 votes

but the issue is when i look at all the characteristic that frejlordian possess, i noticed that the females of frejlord always had white or a pale colored hair along with having clear light blue eyes; the males don't share the same hair color as the females, the males are more darker in their color of their hairs. I have found female characters that did had darker hair but many known characters that were female never showed a more brighter or vibrant hair color (blonde, carrot, etc. colored hair), the people of frejlord are mainly singled out in a single hair colors. the skins for the female champions of frejlord does change their hair color, but the true hair color that is mainly the majority for the female frejlords has always been revealed to be albino white hair.