Quick Gameplay Thoughts: March 28

RiotMeddler·Mar 28, 2017·1 votes·59,608 views

Morning all!

Some thoughts below. Next time (Thursday?) should be ready to take a look at what some more of the things we'll be working on in 7.8.

Magic Damage Shield UI

During Galio's development we identified that on tanky targets it was too difficult to tell how much damage they were taking if they had a long duration magic damage shield up, because of the similarities in color and tone between the enemy healthbar red and magic damage shield purple. As one of the steps to improving that we tweaked the magic damage shield bar color. Internal feedback on that change was that it read better. PBE feedback, as is often the case for changes that go out mid PBE cycle, was minimal. After the patch went live however we started seeing a lot of feedback from players who felt that the new color was too close to the regular shield UI, resulting in a different mislead instead. We'll be adjusting magic damage shield color use again as a result, both to find a point that avoids overlapping enemy health bars/regular shields and to put in some specific tunings for colorblind mode.

Things moving to 7.8

A couple of things that have been in testing during 7.7 will be moving to the 7.8 patch cycle instead:

Lissandra - Testing a new passive (tear style mana stacking and enhanced auto attacks post spell cast). We'll either ship that or, if it's not working out, the backup changes (Q AP ratio, maybe something else) next patch. Needed more time to test that passive properly.
Shen - We've been looking at making some adjustments to Shen's kit to make him more balanceable in organized play versus regular match made games (if balanced for one ends up pretty unbalanced in the other, a long running Shen problem unfortunately). Those won't be ready for 7.7 as originally targeted though.
Bard - Changes to Bard's passive (adjusting which rewards at which Chime counts, more possible meeps) look promising. We've got some concerns the numbers in testing are too strong a power boost however, so we'll probably be taking another patch to look into those too (chance this does still ship in 7.7 though depending on how testing goes).

Unusual Playstyles Update

For anyone that hasn't already seen it we posted a runthrough yesterday on how we'll be approaching unusual playstyles like Smite Support Nunu that come to player support's attention going forwards. From the gameplay side most important thing there is that trying to win is what counts. Link below which is well worth a read, we'll be talking more about how we distinguish between intent to win and trolling soonish too/

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/EtXQhs5J-weore-updating-our-policy-so-unusual-play-styles-dont-get-14-day-bans?comment=00030000

180 Comments

SociopathFriendMar 28, 20179 votes

Can we have a hint at the next new champion please? Just a hint? A little crumb in information for the rumblings in the metaphorical tummy?

(Apparently Black Cauldron is sitting heavy in my thoughts today)

RiotMeddlerMar 28, 201721 votes

Completely understand the desire for hints, that's something I'll avoid though. The teams that work on new champs spend a lot of time on them and their teaser campaigns/promo materials and I hate to undercut their chance to do a cool introduction.

Positioning KingMar 28, 201720 votes

Hmm, which part of this is the hint? Undercut can't be coincidental. Karate champion incoming?!

RiotZenonTheStoicMar 28, 201726 votes

Fuck!

IxtaliKingMar 28, 20172 votes

RiotMeddlerMar 28, 201718 votes

You had one job Zenon, one job!

DessemMar 28, 20179 votes

Worried Lissandra's passive change isn't quite what she needs. Her AA animation is pretty slow and I don't think AAing her opponents really fits in her playstyle or teamfight presence.

Thanks for taking a look at her, though!

VayatirMar 28, 20177 votes

Hey Meddler,

I was wondering if the balance team has any current thoughts on Diana? She appears to be performing really poorly in the jungle, and isn't doing so hot in mid lane either. Is there no perceived problem or is she in line for an evaluation?

ReworkUdyr2020Mar 28, 20177 votes

Would appreciate an update on the Udyr situation. You mentioned he was being looked at in 7.7 but things have been quiet since.

Thank you.

RiotMeddlerMar 28, 20179 votes

We're going to try and target Udyr changes in 7.8. Work on him in 7.7 got delayed by other higher priority tasks for the team.

6SfoolMar 28, 20176 votes

Have you decided on the MR route of nerfing Graves, or are you still testing? You said you had 2 routes but only one is on the pbe.

RiotMeddlerMar 28, 20173 votes

We'll be going for removing the MR bonus from True Grit.

TheSingularityMar 28, 20173 votes

Has riot considered removing his knockback vs monsters? Thus forcing him to actually kite with E as opposed to using it for a quick reload.

EROTIC RAID BOSSMar 28, 20175 votes

What are your thoughts on ryze? Obviously he's having similar shen/azir type issues, but do you think it's as simple as less power in the ultimate or is he also just too complex to fight with for most players?

RiotMeddlerMar 28, 20175 votes

Not sure on Ryze direction frankly, need to put some extended thought into that when time permits. Agree he's certainly a Shen/Azir style of problem. I think there's a lot more to it than just the ult though (highly reliable and responsive hard CC, significantly better improved performance at low latency than most champs, lack of ult CD dependence for optimal damage pattern etc).

WoblyMar 28, 20172 votes

I'm sure you can't promise when you'll work on him again, since it seems like even the scale of the work is TBD, but I'm very eager to hear more thoughts on Ryze's situation when you have them. He's been in a bad spot for so long, going from rework to rework. Being a Ryze main is tough.

RiotMeddlerMar 28, 20176 votes

Will certainly talk once we've got some more concrete things in mind.

LingoDingoMar 29, 20173 votes

Do you think that maybe if you added a travel time to Ryze's W (i.e. like the E) that it could help improve the health of his kit?

RiotMeddlerMar 29, 20176 votes

We tested that as a change a few patches back. It had much higher feel costs, including to average skill Ryze players, than we'd hoped. Would like to revisit it as a concept at some point, given how difficult Ryze has been to balance, it's not the clear improvement of a change we'd been hoping it was though alas.

Illâoi Evê SiônMar 29, 20173 votes

Have you tried out making it targeted but delayed like Lucian's Q so enemies can dodge if they flash/dash at just the right moment?

LingoDingoMar 29, 20173 votes

Perhaps a mix of the two? Targeted but delayed, but also without a prolonged cast animation. Have him set up part of the cage with his current animation, with the target able to move for a fraction of a second before they are actually stunned (i.e. flash/dash away before the lockdown so that it's harder and sometimes impossible for Ryze to follow up on it, like what happens when someone dashing gets caught by an Ahri E)

Chromatic EagleMar 28, 20173 votes

Why does his root tend to stay in most reworks? Why not design it like a trap or skillshot?

ŁucîdMar 28, 20175 votes

Hi Meddler,

Could you comment on any plans or ideas for Udyr? As someone who has played since season 1 and used to main him, he feels the weakest he's ever been. The nerfs following the abusable AP-jungle item + boots of swiftness meta can still be felt and stink for those of us that favored cinderhulk regardless. He used to be a swiss army knife, master-of-none. Now it feels like he performs each role slightly below average.

TheHappyReaperzMar 28, 20172 votes

Which is what a jack-of-all trades, master-of-none is supposed to do though. You don't do one thing as well as anyone else. However, you can do multiple things ok.

Gumbo FileMar 28, 20175 votes

“A jack of all trades is a master of none, but oftentimes better than a master of one.”

A jack of all trades in game design is supposed to be able to choose one of X routes to build said character, each with their own upsides and according downsides for speccing a certain way.

It is NOT a character that does lots of things poorly.

Think Red Mage in final fantasy, vs Udyr in league of legends currently

ZodiacSheepMar 28, 20175 votes

Are you still trying to give Morgana a small buff? I saw the addition of grievous wounds to her W got put on then removed a while back. Any other idea floating around for her in the next few PBE cycles?

AdalvarMar 28, 20174 votes

Have you guys considered decoupling the heal from Lissandra's ult and make it her passive instead? Here's an idea:

Iceborn: When Lissandra is hit by a hard crowd control effect she is restores 20-250 (based on level) +35% AP health which increases by 1% for every 1% of her missing health (Numbers may be shifted). This can only occur once every X seconds (maybe make it so when you CC an enemy the CD is reduced). Lissandra also gains this healing effect if she self-casts Frozen Tomb.

You maintain the playstyle of burning time with her ult/Hourglass combo engages, but at the same time you can also survive critical times when your ult is down.

EDIT: Formating

FenikkuroMar 28, 20172 votes

I love Lissandra, but this is ridiculous. She would likely become another permaban. I think the heal should be restricted to that clear window (the ult). This isn't a terrible idea though, maybe every time she CCs and enemy she stores that or gains charges, don't know or care what to call it, and this would enhance the heal on her ult? Rewarding her for being aggressive and landing CC.

RiotMeddlerMar 28, 20176 votes

The heal's specifically only available on ult self cast because in order to get access to it you therefore have to give up ult enemy cast. That trade off's helped make the choice between the two options richer and resulted in less 'just go in and burst a target' as the dominant team fight play (some of that's fine, want other options as well though).

CyberBaltMar 28, 20173 votes

How do you guys feel so far about the ZZ'rot changes that hit a few patches back? Did it meet your goals, or do you still think it needs some tweaking?

Personally I would like a small buff to the distance the voidlings can travel -- even if it comes at a cost of reduced damage to minions or something.

RiotMeddlerMar 28, 201713 votes

Zzeems reasonable. Wouldn't swear it was at the perfect numbers, but close enough other things are much higher priorities. ZZ'Rot's intended to be a somewhat niche item, so seeing it used less now makes sense (if it's being used by everyone its numbers are likely way out of line in part).

Sexy Jack RabbitMar 29, 20176 votes

{quoted}

Zeems reasonable.

Christ Meddler... [zombie-brand-facepalm]

RiotMeddlerMar 29, 201714 votes

Improved it further!

Sun Wu RyuumokuMar 28, 20173 votes

Any thoughts on item 3107 item 3190 item 3109 ?

iahim98Mar 28, 20172 votes

@meddler what are your thoughts on ww, he seems on the strong side, any intent to nerf him, and if yes, are guys gonna address the QoL the community has asked for a while (clearer ult hitbox and the q awkwardness) with it?

JeitsuMar 29, 20172 votes

How do you feel about Aatrox changes?, you mentioned he was being looked at in 7.7 but we don't have more information about it since. Have you had enough time to check his performance in the Summoner's Rift or you are going to wait for 7.8?

In my opinion i think that his passive still needs some tweaks, at least for early game. Thank You.

VagueManMar 29, 20172 votes

Hey! It was my birthday this past week, and I celebrated it on /r/JaxMains a bit and was wondering if as a late B-day gift you could give me some special insight about how Jax and Jax related questions. If you're strapped for time, please only answer the questions marked "IMPORTANT"

Obligatory: How is Jax right now performance wise? Any plans for buffs, nerfs, distant ideas for a an update of any sort? Is he even on the list of champions needing attention? What kind of attention would said attention focus on? VGU? Whole package?

IMPORTANT Why does Jax's (W) Empower not give him extended range like so many other auto attack resets? It feels so bad to activate the spell then flub the auto reset because of the range. What's the balance costs for giving his W or his ult autos bonus range on those specific autos?
IMPORTANT Why does Jax have 125 Range for his basic attacks? (This is one that I hear a lot from /r/JaxMains that I think is really silly. "giv mor rang pls") I suspect it to have something to do with his versatile and long range mobility spell being on a relatively low cooldown as well as his access to hard CC.
IMPORTANT (sub questions are not) Who even is supposed to build ? It doesn't feel like Jax is supposed to build it but It seems like such an amazing item for jax to want to prioritize it. AS, AD, AP, Ghostly doubleAutos. But I can't even feel good about building it in 1/20 games because of the stack management and cost. Why does an item that cost so much have one of the strangest feeling gated usages?

Why does Guinsoo's have 6 stacks? Is that the sweetspot for Ranged and Melee Champs?
Why can't it have 8 stacks but generate 2 stacks per auto?
Is there a reason why a lot of stacking items/stats don't have the same "falling stacks" mechanic that Jax's passive has?
I actually really liked the AOE version of rageblade a while ago, Was it just too powerful in general, or where there just abusers of it's power that were too effective (cough, kog/jax)? Is there a reason why ranged champions just can't have a smaller AOE. or AOE scaling with range?

Could you please tell me, statistically, if the new version of that's live right now better for Jax than older versions of BotRK?
What 3 stats do you feel are most important for Jax? Personally, my top 3 stats are.
Attack Speed (Not all of it, just having enough attack speed is very important.)
Health (Jax already has a lot of damage mitigation tools, so just get HP to make it matter)
CDR (Jax feels really good with low CD's)
IMPORTANT ABOVE ALL ELSE Could you please harass the skin team, or send Krepo and Froggen to do some sleuth work to find out if there are any skin ideas for Jax? (I don't like warden, sorry. Another Nemesis tier skin pls.) Is Jax's age holding him back from getting skins? Or just lack of good ideas? In order of importance imo. Please ~~flame them~~ pass it on to them.

BattleBoss (or RaidBoss) in the arcade/boss line of skins. an EPIC weapon, Jetpack Q, and shiny particle effects for WER. Maybe he has an everything proof sheild text effect, or the skin gives off a general vibe that he's "Cheating" or not playing fairly, even though he's just better. "omg ur hacking", 'no i'm just really good hehe'
Project Jax. Lots of purple and blue please and an Amazing Future BASHING weapon.
Blood Moon Jax. Seems like a nobrainer considering all of the ionia champs and how he sorta has ties to Ionia? (Most ionian champs are graceful and elegant, but jax is a bash master who's in game mechanics, despite his lore of him being skillful, just plays and looks like a brute.)
Dragonslayer Jax (I'd like to imagine Jax trying to solo dragons in search for bigger badder prey)
D&D Warrior Jax. I have no ideas for this but I do like this.
Monster Hunter Jax (TBH I wasn't stoked about this line of skins, but same reasoning as dragonslayer)
El Macho Jax. He wears a mask, He boasts about finding worthy challenge, seems great! (Going to find a hard time looking for a weapon though :thinking:)
Nightmare Jax. I think that skin for tryndamere is really dope and would like to see one for jax, but I understand Trynd has the whole Pyramid head thing going for him with his massive sword.

Jax Expanded VO like lux. Is Mr Erik Baa still able to be brought in for VO work in the future?

I also got some Jax ideas that are PROBABLY pointless, but I'd still like to ask you to indulge me and see how this shifts jax's power. EVEN if some of these changes don't fit him thematically.

Jax's (W) Empower feels really simple, noninteractive, and not entirely great sometimes. I have some ideas to make the item "Overloaded" and "Cool"

Empower gives other abilities special effects!

Empower Q reduces it's CD in exchange for damage, or some other effect like. APPLYING ON HIT EFFECTS, PLEASE LET JAX'S Q APPLY ON HIT EFFECTS.
Empower E increases the stun radius, damage, or stun duration based on how many attacks were dodged
Whenever Ultimate is cast Jax's W and R autos have very small AOE (like, malphite (W) Brutal Strikes sized.) for the duration of the ultimate.

Pink WardMar 30, 20172 votes

What direction are you guys trying to take Shaco? With the current nerfs on the pbe, I feel it will just incentivize the playstyle that has the current high winrate. This nerf really is only going to hit the early game Assassin/Lethality/Crit Shaco and Ap Shaco. The current build that is has that high winrate is the tank/onhit build, Trinity into Titanic then tank. Shaco's winrate in the early game is high till around 25-30mins, that's usually where crit/lethality Shaco falls off. Yet, it pops back up post 35mins when tank/bruiser Shaco is coming online. These early game nerfs are just gonna force those players into farming the early game and ganking when it looks easy. I feel he's becoming what Ekko and Fizz were a few patches ago, build tank on an assassin.

DarkPh0enixMar 30, 20172 votes

Can you stop Gutting Rengar? His damage is not the problem with his kit and I don't even understand why you are attempting to gut him more and more.

If you want him to be more of an assassin with an escape, revert W, give him CC immunity when he kills a champion, massively increase AD ratios on Q but gut the base damage.

DCYOUNG888Mar 28, 20171 votes

When will the mid-season patch update be?

RiotMeddlerMar 28, 20176 votes

Almost certainly 7.9.

LongHair FoxMar 28, 20171 votes

So are you expecting to put things up on the pbe during patch 7.7? or first at patch 7.9?... A week worth of testing seems too short for mid season changes.

RiotMeddlerMar 28, 20176 votes

We might put some mid-season stuff on the PBE during the 7.8 PBE cycle, but still not ship it until 7.9. Depends on what's ready when though.