Boards›Dev Corner

Quick Gameplay Thoughts: July 12

RiotMeddler·7/12/2019, 3:19:32 PM·1 votes·155,163 views

Hi folks,

Usual Disclaimers

These posts will often contain talk about future work we're doing, or planning to do, that isn't yet guaranteed to ship. The nature of the work could change or, depending on what we discover, projects mentioned may get delayed or even stopped. If you'd like to see a Tweet whenever a new one of these posts goes up: https://twitter.com/RiotMeddler

Patch schedule for the rest of the year

Haven't done one of these in a bit so figured it was a good time to talk about our approach to patches through 2019. (For those who haven't seen, we have a schedule of this year's patch dates published on the support site: https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/360018987893-League-of-Legends-patch-schedule) First up, the standard LoL side of things (SR etc). This is all from the perspective of balance/widespread meta impacting work. New content like skins, champs etc will continue to release as usual.

9.14 - A pretty large patch with a lot of different champs getting work. Expectation is we'll probably do a small follow up micropatch a few days after 9.14 releases since with around 30 champs getting changed odds are there'll be at least one who needs some quick correction afterwards.

9.15 - 9.18 - Smaller patches, focused on stability and lower scope balance work. We'll be looking to avoid things with big systemic impacts here in particular (e.g. reworking items, changing strength of different positions significantly relative to each other, changes to objectives etc).

9.19 - Worlds patch. Focus here is on stable, reliable.

9.20 - 9.22 - Patches between Worlds and Preseason. Some work, including some behind the scenes technical stuff that's a bit risky to put in the Worlds patch, goes here. Generally we try not to get the Worlds patch and the state of the regular game get too out of sync though, so large work will be usually held for preseason.

9.23 - Preseason. This should be mid November. We'll start talking details about what's in it before though, probably sometime late September or early October.

TFT Patching

On the TFT side of things by contrast we've got a lot of plans for both balance and ongoing feature development in the 9.15-9.19 sort of range (and onwards of course). During the mode's initial release we've been doing a lot of balance through micropatches as we get things generally into an ok state. Going forward plan is to do more balance through regular patches, including with patch notes so it's much easier to track what's going on. Still expecting we'll hotfix extremely out of line things quickly though of course, especially where they're warping the whole meta around themselves.

As a quick recap in terms of TFT in 9.14 we’re expecting we’ll ship:

  • DPS meters
  • A new unit (Twisted Fate, 2 cost Pirate Sorcerer with Pick a Card)
  • A lot more visible stats when you inspect a unit
  • A lot of balance changes
  • A lot of bug fixes
  • Changes to how PVE rounds drop rewards
  • Reworks of some items
  • Win/loss streak UI improvements
  • And more

Looking at Irelia in 9.15

We're putting most of our 9.15 time aside for follow up on 9.14 and longer term work on preseason projects. It's likely we'll at least look at Irelia from the angle of her being too dominant in pro play in particular. Not sure yet what changes that might or might not result in though.

http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/6.24.1/img/champion/Ziggs.png

260 Comments

squirleon7/12/2019, 3:25:51 PM49 votes

Do you have anything planned for toplane tanks? Outside of Tham Kench who is getting nerfed hard, they have low winrates and very low pick and ban rates. They are also not seen in competitive much. Tanks in toplane basically only have one keystone option and that is grasp of undying. Tanks struggle against melee enemies because conqueror is stronger agaist a tank than grasp is for a tank. Grasp is also very bad against any ranged matchup resulting in tanks just being free gold because of kleptomancy. Turret plates are also an issue for tanks because tanks will rarely have the opportunity to get them because of lane pressure, resulting in falling behind too much.

NEEKOOO7/12/2019, 3:23:39 PM27 votes

Hello Meddler, do you think one day we will have a mod kit for creating game modes like Dota is giving or just like Overwatch does. Autochess is born from mods but you are not giving player opportunity to create content for League which is sad.

AIQ7/12/2019, 3:37:41 PM26 votes

Any chance that Shyvana could Scale with Elder and Gain fury while dead?

Any Chance Warwick can get his W bug fixed when he's running at a unit is between him and his target he loses all bonuses?

Irelia seems fine for normal play is the direction that she be changed and power moved around or just legs broken like Azir and Kalista?

Winterkill7/12/2019, 4:21:46 PM21 votes

What are Developers doing about player concerns in regards to Developers, like you honestly, who are catering to the same subset of champions and now new champions? Here you are talking about Irelia again and her problems, but ignoring the vast majority of comments about other people's champions. You talked about Akali last week and the week before that Ryze and Lux. You and so many other Developers really need to be held accountable for your bias choices and work ethic. This game has over 140+ champions in it and it seems like Developers like you and other ones only care about popular champions, new champions and recent VGU ones.

Karma

It's been close to 6 and a half years now and there are still major problems with her kit, gameplay identity and incomplete art assets. Karma was actually to receive a GU earlier this year but Developers, like you, refused to address the problems and it was cancelled because of player backlash. Just like the excuses you used in previous years, time and the fact that there is a huge division in the Karma community is the reason why Developers like you cannot stand the champion or the community. You waited way too long to address her problems and now the community is conflicted within itself on what to do with her.

  1. Give her a proper GU that doesn't bottleneck her into one role specifically and finds a way to unify both support and mid players.
  2. Address player concerns that her Mantra doesn't offer much skill expression and the fact that the majority of her abilities exist on other champions and item actives.
  3. Address player concerns that she is being abused in roles and lanes she shouldn't be in, like top lane Karma.
  4. Address her incomplete art assets, lack of a shield casting animation, rushed and incomplete VO, and in-game models that don't match the splast arts.
  5. Her lack of a gameplay identity other than sitting in the back and shielding or hoping a Mantra Q lands and deals damage.

I know I'm going to be down-voted and harassed. I know players are not going to agree with me when they have their own favorites. I just want people to really understand something. Try being part of a champion community where your concerns, questions, feedback, passion and creativity is ignored from the very beginning of a VGU to the very end of the VGU to present day. Try watching a Developer with no knowledge of champion design, art and someone who doesn't even play the champion be in charge of a VGU that gave her half arsed content and an over the place kit and gameplay identity. Really think about all of the players who voiced their concerns and opinions about their champion and it goes largely ignored for 6 years, where the vocal majority that hated the problems with her left the game because they were unsatisfied. Fast forward to present day where Karma has back and fourth buffs and nerfs, a cancelled GU, a Development team that has commented on her problems and admitted that she needs a lot of work, and a divided community of mains that are all at each other because a Development team refuses to do their jobs and focus on another Ryze VGU or rework.

Riot, when it comes to Karma you can care less. When it comes to new champions and popular ones you prioritize all types of work on them. It's been 6 years and there has been almost zero communication, work, and an actual care by you. What are you doing?

swansie7/12/2019, 3:24:27 PM14 votes

Do you know when the wukong rework that was in the PBE is going to launch, or was that shelved? I personally thought it was taking him in a really good direction

FootFetishRyze7/12/2019, 3:30:22 PM12 votes

You promised you'd share some thoughts on Ryze in a previous quick gameplay thoughts, did you forget? he's already getting changes on the PBE and us Ryze mains are really divisive on the rework, particularly having gripes with how ''brainless'' it feels no longer having any incentive to EEQ & WEQ being nerfed so he's so simplistic, alongside him being way too squishy for his range Oh and also, any reasons why you avoided changing his ult? :C Ryze

Hatter Maddigan7/12/2019, 6:23:00 PM11 votes

Please. Stop fucking with Irelia just because pro players are good. It gets so old to constantly have your champion pool modified by players who are not remotely in your league. Pro and casual play at all levels is extremely different. You guys have no idea what balance really means as is proven by the problems of Tahm too, Mordekaiser for atleast his first month of being out after rework, and now you guys are putting a shield breaker (that thing you took from Irelia passive because it was to punishing) on Renekton W and it's the entire shield, not just bonus damage. I get that you guys think you're helping or fixing things or doing anything useful balance wise but you have done such a piss poor job over and over with no real impact why should it be believed that you remotely have an interest in balancing things. You're looking at Irelia for patch 9.15, are you going to fix the shit you ruin in 9.14 at the same time or will that can be kicked down the road till we all can't remember when the champions we play weren't beholden to the whims of pro players

We are not pro players What they do is not equivalent or similar to solo duo or casual play Stop basing balance of pick and ban rates Learn from your fucking mistakes

Albertoplus7/12/2019, 4:01:49 PM10 votes

Hello.

There are tons of Warwick bugs that are making people call Warwick "the new Morde 2.0".

When are they being fixed?

Thanks.

Sexy Jack Rabbit7/12/2019, 3:26:02 PM10 votes

Hey Meddler I've noticed you've been less active with your gameplay thoughts recently, any reasons for this?

Not complaining, just asking out of interest

LiL Bunnie FuFuu7/12/2019, 3:39:41 PM7 votes

Hi Meddler,

You (or a different rioter) mentioned some work that might be being done on support items. Can you share what this could involve i.e. changing item gold generation?

Also are there any plans to improve tank runes/buffing the resolve tree?

Thanks

meteorbreaker7/12/2019, 3:50:05 PM6 votes

Hello Meddler!

News for Zyra? Solo carry, no support position. Maybe it's time to seriously change it as a mage. It's time to sharpen another position and gameplay.

Generic Ninja7/12/2019, 6:15:40 PM6 votes

Its been 2 years now since we were told by Ghostcrawler that we would get a crit rework that removes its RNG to fix the issue with output randomness. Since then, not only has that rework not materialized, there has been complete radio silence. Can we please just be told if this rework, undoubtedly one of the best and most important changes league would ever see is still happening? Or if the hope of fixing crit, and its design of promoting luck and devaluing skill is dead, and that those who dont want a game where luck can win a game on its own can just leave. Its frustrating holding out for years for a fix that might never happen, with a game that without that fix, simply isnt enjoyable enough.

The Teemo7/13/2019, 10:38:22 PM5 votes

Any news or updates pending for Teemo ? You guys implamented updates to his kit a few patches ago and just left him in the dark again with no news on what's going on with this severely outdated champion. With every new champion release his kit is becoming more and more difficult to effectively use in a game where everyone else has a number of dashes, roots, stuns, etc. on just a single champion. He really needs to just be completely reworked/updated and there's nothing updated about him. It's frustrating to main a champion that's constantly losing viability in this evolving game.

General Sherman7/12/2019, 9:02:09 PM5 votes

As a pre rework Irelia player I just wanted to throw my thoughts out there since she's seeing more work. I haven't really connected with the new Irelia and I feel like that's due to her playstyle leaning more assassin than bruiser right now, even if she still builds on the bruiser side. Personally I would like to see the dash mark removed from her e, as I feel that's what currently enables her to go for a bustier patter on people. This could be compensated with some buffs to utility, like a longer stun duration and giving some functionality back to her w.

While the marks are an interesting mechanic I feel like they work better as a high moment on her ultimate to gain target access to the backline by going through the front, and less as a constant play pattern where she fishes for a mark to all in on.

Regardless of any of this if you talk more about Irelia in a future post I would love to here your thoughts on how she currently straddles the assassin/bruiser line.

Thanks, always love these posts!

Daddy Ants7/13/2019, 1:52:15 PM5 votes

Hi Meddler.

item 3108 gives 35 ability power but when you upgrade to item 3174 you only get 30 AP.

Is this intended or a bug because it's existed ever since Athene's got changed into a Support item.

PowerOfDrainAge7/12/2019, 3:47:38 PM5 votes

Irelia doesn't need a nerf, she needs a small rebalance. Her passive is just too strong early game once stacked. Nerf it HARD early game, make it the same lategame and buff the rest of her kit. She basically has a strong early game, is good into both melees and ranged champs and has strong teamfighting so ofc she will get abused in pro play.

Something like 20% AS at lvl1, scaling back to 60% at lvl 13, with 10-70 (7 + 3.5*lvl) on hit dmg. Revert E nerf, buff Q ratio by 5-10% and boom.

Rumblenii7/12/2019, 3:25:16 PM4 votes

Thoughts on Rumble's performance both on mid and top since his last set of buffs?

Minishcap17/12/2019, 5:48:51 PM4 votes

Meddler, I think that Celerity should be reverted back to 3% movement speed and the AP/AD conversion. The rune currently is extremely underwhelming and weak. DoT champions also need a keystone rune. Runes reforged needs more Keystones in general.

IlyaK19867/13/2019, 3:21:13 AM4 votes

If you nerf Irelia for pro play, her numbers are going to be through the floor anywhere else. There's no winning here.

D4M2X07/12/2019, 4:40:18 PM4 votes

thoughts on minion block?

thoughts on tanks being more trouble then they are worth?

thoughts on stealth 1 clickers?

thoughts on autofill vs duoQ?

Neνermore7/12/2019, 3:58:02 PM4 votes

Any thoughts on Heimerdinger?

Solidair37/12/2019, 3:24:48 PM4 votes

Hi meddler.

Pretty excited for the coming patch, for both SR and TFT changes.

Curious about your thoughts or the balance teams thoughts about Qiyana's state, as we haven't heard much since her hotfixes went out.

Ruined Marksman7/14/2019, 1:50:12 AM3 votes

Any opinions on Kalista ?

Wendígo7/12/2019, 3:26:41 PM3 votes

Any context on why 9.14 was decided to be so big?

RekSai CoffeeCo7/12/2019, 4:40:08 PM3 votes

{quoted}

Non SR Game Modes

And finally also seeing quite a few questions or suggestions crop up about non SR game modes recently, particularly Nexus Blitz, ARURF, ARAM and TT. We should have some details to share next month on how we'll be approaching those modes late next month, including when the non permanent ones will next be available.

Still waiting

DCYOUNG8887/12/2019, 3:28:12 PM3 votes

Hi Meddler, how is the progress on the AP bruiser items? I remember they were getting revamped with a new passive where it builds up ap the longer you are in combat but I was wondering if the iteration was modified or changed and if it is still coming out during preseason?

Ritjan7/12/2019, 4:28:46 PM1 votes

Hello!

Not sure if you can tell us this but will the new Pantheon be playable in Worlds? :)

ThiefKing137/12/2019, 4:14:21 PM1 votes

{quoted}

Hi folks,

Usual Disclaimers

These posts will often contain talk about future work we're doing, or planning to do, that isn't yet guaranteed to ship. The nature of the work could change or, depending on what we discover, projects mentioned may get delayed or even stopped. If you'd like to see a Tweet whenever a new one of these posts goes up: https://twitter.com/RiotMeddler

Patch schedule for the rest of the year

Haven't done one of these in a bit so figured it was a good time to talk about our approach to patches through 2019. (For those who haven't seen, we have a schedule of this year's patch dates published on the support site: https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/360018987893-League-of-Legends-patch-schedule) First up, the standard LoL side of things (SR etc). This is all from the perspective of balance/widespread meta impacting work. New content like skins, champs etc will continue to release as usual.

9.14 - A pretty large patch with a lot of different champs getting work. Expectation is we'll probably do a small follow up micropatch a few days after 9.14 releases since with around 30 champs getting changed odds are there'll be at least one who needs some quick correction afterwards.

9.15 - 9.18 - Smaller patches, focused on stability and lower scope balance work. We'll be looking to avoid things with big systemic impacts here in particular (e.g. reworking items, changing strength of different positions significantly relative to each other, changes to objectives etc).

9.19 - Worlds patch. Focus here is on stable, reliable.

9.20 - 9.22 - Patches between Worlds and Preseason. Some work, including some behind the scenes technical stuff that's a bit risky to put in the Worlds patch, goes here. Generally we try not to get the Worlds patch and the state of the regular game get too out of sync though, so large work will be usually held for preseason.

9.23 - Preseason. This should be mid November. We'll start talking details about what's in it before though, probably sometime late September or early October.

TFT Patching

On the TFT side of things by contrast we've got a lot of plans for both balance and ongoing feature development in the 9.15-9.19 sort of range (and onwards of course). During the mode's initial release we've been doing a lot of balance through micropatches as we get things generally into an ok state. Going forward plan is to do more balance through regular patches, including with patch notes so it's much easier to track what's going on. Still expecting we'll hotfix extremely out of line things quickly though of course, especially where they're warping the whole meta around themselves.

As a quick recap in terms of TFT in 9.14 we’re expecting we’ll ship:

  • DPS meters

  • A new unit (Twisted Fate, 2 cost Pirate Sorcerer with Pick a Card)

  • A lot more visible stats when you inspect a unit

  • A lot of balance changes

  • A lot of bug fixes

  • Changes to how PVE rounds drop rewards

  • Reworks of some items

  • Win/loss streak UI improvements

  • And more

Looking at Irelia in 9.15

We're putting most of our 9.15 time aside for follow up on 9.14 and longer term work on preseason projects. It's likely we'll at least look at Irelia from the angle of her being too dominant in pro play in particular. Not sure yet what changes that might or might not result in though.

http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/6.24.1/img/champion/Ziggs.png

Where are the Teemo quality of life changes! Don't ignore him just because he'll never be meta!

shofaz7/12/2019, 5:59:06 PM1 votes

Also when is the next champion roadmap?