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Quick Gameplay Thoughts: July 11

RiotMeddler··1 votes·55,727 views

Morning all,

Should be back to our usual couple of times a week routine now for a while :)


Usual Disclaimers

These posts will often contain talk about future work we're doing, or planning to do, that isn't yet guaranteed to ship. The nature of the work could change or, depending on what we discover, projects mentioned may get put delayed or even stopped. If you'd like to see a Tweet whenever a new one of these posts goes up: https://twitter.com/RiotMeddler


Ping Updates

In an upcoming patch (7.15 maybe?) we have some additional work done on the ping system. As previously mentioned there's a warded ping coming, we'll also be making it so you can ping any item to chat, not just certain ones. We originally only added some items to the pingable list out of a concern there'd be a lot of pointless chat spam from people pinging stuff like Longswords. In retrospect players aren't using the ping system like that much and those that do have plenty of things to spam anyway (Ally dead, Recall ready etc). We'll be removing that restriction as a result to support some genuine cases of communication it currently blocks (e.g. trying to ping meaningful components to signal power spikes to allies).

We'll also be taking at a look at allowing some skills to display their ammo in chat instead of their CD (e.g. GP Barrels or Corki rockets) since that's the actually relevant part of the spell. Not sure yet if that'll make this round of ping changes or not though.


7.15 as Worlds Qualifiers Patch

As previously mentioned 7.15 is the patch most of the Worlds Qualifying games will be played on. That means we'll be focusing more on balance for pro play than usual. Part of that will involve small changes to a large number of champions who are either a bit too dominant in that context or nearly viable but not quite there. Things like a base health nerf to Thresh or higher GP passive damage are possible candidates there. We'll likely have somewhere between 10 and 20 champs getting changed in that way in the patch, though not all will be on PBE immediately. Also worth noting that there's also an assessment of impact in regular play that goes into whether to buff/nerf in situations like this, with some champs who are pretty strong already in regular play (e.g. Panth) not getting buffs even though they're not pro viable for example.


Other 7.15 Balance Changes

We'll also be doing some work on other stuff in 7.15 of course. Some of that stuff, even if it appears on PBE, might end up getting pushed back to 7.16 though, given the limited amount of testing time and potential size of the patch. Things we're considering include:

  • Nasus - Changing E to % shred and making it so while R is active Q has a lower CD. Intended to be overall buffs, in particular to Nasus's ability to fight other tankier folks (often all he can reach).

  • MF - Potential buffs to her attack speed, supporting more auto attack heavy playstyles. More experimental, so moderate likelihood some or all of the changes don't make the cut.

  • Lux - Potential buffs to her teamfighting (looks a bit weak overall, goal would be to put power into her utility more than her one shot ability though).


More Runes Stuff

We should have another look at a new Keystone coming this week (probably tomorrow), with a comparison between Perxie, which we talked about previously, and a different Sorcery Keystone.

For those interested in the development side of Runes we've also just finished running a series of player research labs in Korea, with players who are pros, streamers, ex-pros, managers of community sites etc testing out the new system. Got a bunch of useful feedback from that we're excited to act on. Previous rounds included labs in China recently with randomly selected players in two groups (Silver/Gold and Plat/Diamond) and before that in NA with both the LCS teams and randomly selected other players who live in the LA area. Given how large the impact of Runes is likely to be we want to ensure we're getting in person feedback from a really wide variety of players along a range of axis (regular players and pro, different skill levels, different regions, theorycrafters and non theorycrafters etc). We run similar labs for a lot of other content, including things like new champions/VGUs and features like Tournaments or Honour. Runes is one of the biggest (or possible the biggest) and most global sets of labs we've done though, which has been both very helpful and pretty cool so far.

228 Comments

fuffychan15 votes

This is a fairly lackluster set of changes.

Nothing about Zac at all, who has 3 different forms of CC unaffected by merc treads or tenacity, and deals a disproportionate amount of damage for how tanky he is and how much CC he has? Personally if he gets nerfs I would like to see nerfs to his usability, because his engage skill (E) is far too simple to use for how powerful it is, especially as a non-ultimate ability with a low cooldown. The range on the cone is very wide and forgiving, and he can hold the charge for a long time, or even cancel it completely.

How about more punishment for Zac players who dont play carefully? I propose the cone width get severely nerfed, if you want to allow its ridiculous range, and work like a "slingshot" kinda like Rumbles ult? so he has to make a quick decision. You can even increase the travel speed if you do this. Another idea could be to make him have a self-stun upon impact if he fails to hit an enemy, so Zac players are punished for bad plays.

After all, this is a champion that has literally over 100% banrate.

RiotMeddler19 votes

Zac's one of the champs, like GP and Thresh, that'll likely be changed as part of the large number of simpler changes pass in 7.15. As per usual these posts aren't a full set of everything in a patch, but context on a number of things as to what we're thinking.

Quepha10 votes

{quoted}

  • MF - Potential buffs to her attack speed, supporting more auto attack heavy playstyles. More experimental, so moderate likelihood some or all of the changes don't make the cut.

Why would you buff her in that direction? She seems incredibly boring as an auto attacker.

La Bello3 votes

this

I cringe whenere I see people build MF as a crit/lifesteal marksman full lethality armor pen is the way to go for me. you dont really lose that much damage (being able to still one shot someone with a Q bounce) while being a HUGE threat in every teamfight.

Cosmic Warper3 votes

{quoted}

Why would you buff her in that direction? She seems incredibly boring as an auto attacker.

just as boring as an ult bot

Quepha7 votes

nah, triple kills with her ult are super exciting.

IxtaliKing9 votes

Hey Meddler, any comment on Karma? She's currently sitting on a 45% win rate in both Mid and Support, and you've recently spoken about the possibility of her receiving small work at some point.

RiotMeddler13 votes

Can't recall off the top of the head, I'll check with the team once I'm at work. I know she was under discussion as a candidate for small balance work, can't remember outcome of that though.

RiotMeddler15 votes

Update: No, no plans for Karma changes in 7.15. She'll need work at some point, won't be buffing her next patch though given we're still seeing her as a pretty dominant mid pick in pro play.

Winterkill6 votes

{quoted}

Update: No, no plans for Karma changes in 7.15. She'll need work at some point, won't be buffing her next patch though given we're still seeing her as a pretty dominant mid pick in pro play.

On what planet? Clearly yet another excuse to not work on her for another 4 years. Too busy making Lux amazing right? She is part of your champion pool that gets something every year. Like Ryze. I just want to say you care so much about all of your champions. A delusional win and play rate you pull out of your buttcrack is another reason to not work on her. What will the excuse be next time?

Sahn Uzal30 votes

Meddler takes the time to make these posts in his free time, Meddler takes the time to respond to our awnsers, he even bothered to check with other Rioters to check on something.

I totally feel like entitled comments with an aggressive tone are in place here.

PeponiPoro3 votes

I'm sorry, I think you took my comment the wrong way. You can look at my profile, I'm not a troll! I just meant that your last line, "I totally feel like entitled comments with an aggressive tone are in place here.", was seething with sarcasm. I love that Meddler does these and answers questions and stuff. I read these every time they post one. ;w;

Sahn Uzal3 votes

Don't worry my dude, I didn't downvote ya :P

I Just Suck TBH2 votes

Faker has still been playing Karma mid. Also, Karma has a low win % for one patch and it's the end of the world? I'm a support main who is glad to see her out of meta. Shielding supports are not fun to play in my opinion so I'm totally okay with a change of meta coming up. Lux is a champion with lots of potential if they give her more utility and less one-shot so I'm okay with that. Chill out bro

IxtaliKing5 votes

Karma is one of those champs who have a big disparity between coordinated/pro play and solo Q, so Faker can still play her mid. Older Karma players are dissatisfied with her being reduced to a shield bot support, so Winter is mad at them for forcing her down that path.

IxtaliKing6 votes

Fair enough. So I'm guessing Karma needs more than just small balance work then?

Thank you for taking the time to respond and give an update :)

WarWork6 votes

So does this mean Lee sin and Caitlyn nerfs? They are too dominant now.

And whatever happened to a champ called Sion

RiotMeddler10 votes

Lee and Caitlyn are being looked at at least for possible nerfs. In Lee's case we also need to do a sweep of some other champs who jungle in general (otherwise we're just pushing play from Lee onto Elise/Gragas/Rek'Sai/Zac potentially). In Caitlyn's case we need to see what impact the 7.14 nerfs do/don't have.

ProfDrDeath3 votes

So, Elise and Rek'Sai are also among the 7.15 balance pass, potentially?

RiotMeddler7 votes

Potentially yeah.

LankPants4 votes

otherwise we're just pushing play from Lee onto Elise/Gragas/Rek'Sai/Zac potentially

And then you just push all the play onto Graves/Kha'zix.

This isn't an issue solvable by worlds, it requires larger systematic changes. Basically the jungle changes at the start of S7 were bad and drastically limited the pool of playable junglers, there was already a huge discrepancy between early pressure junglers and other junglers and the changes making ganking more attractive made this 10x worse.

Still I'd love to see those first 5 champs taken down a notch, even if the jungle still remains mostly stagnant it might at least open some room for other picks, but I think to sustainably have junglers other than early pressure gank machines in the jungle there will need to be sweeping changes to the jungle going into S8.

TTK Dreadnought5 votes

Nasus - Changing E to % shred and making it so while R is active Q has a lower CD. Intended to be overall buffs, in particular to Nasus's ability to fight other tankier folks (often all he can reach).

Will the R change affecting the Q CD affect the base CD like Illaoi's W, in which additional CD wont affect it? and how comparable will the % shred be to the current E considering nasus doesnt build black cleaver, while darius and garen both have armor % shred/pen in their kits

RiotMeddler19 votes

Currently testing a version where CDR does stack with the ult Q CD reduction, given CDR's a pretty core part of many (most?) Nasus builds.

Numbers in right now for the E are 15%-35%. That's also non final though.

Rovert duBelmont6 votes

Very exciting. These changes ought to push Nasus into the juggernaut space he's been struggling to be in.

TTK Dreadnought8 votes

next up.

Mordekaiser and Volibear

Martian Spartan3 votes

It makes me smile to see nasus buffs tbh.

càncer champ2 votes

That armor pen is regular % armor pen, and not % bonus armor pen, right? Changing it to % bonus pen would kill his ability to actually kill squishies.

RiotMeddler8 votes

Correct, total % is what we're testing.

Shadow Hazard1 votes

Considering "Nasus's ability to fight other tankier folks" is the reason for the change wouldn't it be more appropriate to make it bonus%, especially since nasus has zero issues being able to deal high damage to squishies even without his shred.

santaclawzer3 votes

Man i dont know if you realise but this is actually a nerf to his ability to kill squishies. Previously he shredded 40 armour at max rank with spirit fire. on a lot of champs who dont tend to build much resistance thats equivalent to about 80%/100% armour shred. now its a flat 35% armour shred. His 1 shot ability is reduced.

Fake Sai1 votes

Hey Meddler, does this means that if I got 45% CDR from mastery and runes, will I get 95% CDR with the 50% plus of the R?

[slayer-pantheon-rainbows]

Apex Support2 votes

Pretty sure its going to be 72,5% else you would have 0,2 second cd what basicly means 2 times the max att speed.

CD nasus q with max points in it 4 sec. CD with nasus ult 2 sec CD with nasus ult and 45% cdr 1.1 sec

Fake Sai2 votes

This is very interesting. Thank you! [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

CrazFight 5 votes

Just throwing a question out there, Does riot think that making it so sivir w transfer to targets (Maybe just minions) that are out of vision worth a QOL buff, personally I don't understand why something like static shiv is allowed to but not sivir w can't.

Also any more info on yorick skins XD (Hey man have to ask)

Electro5224 votes

Just out of curiosity, will Kayn and Urgot be available for worlds? Or, is that something your not familiar with?

EDIT: I mean, will they be available for pros to play on the worlds stage?

RiotMeddler15 votes

Yes, plan is they'll be available.

nosafterburn2 votes

oh god I can't wait for that first on stage live at worlds Urgot ult execution. The crowd is gunna piss themselves lol

Spideraxe4 votes

Hey Meddler can I potentially ask about what's going to be included in Reav3's upcoming champion roadmap

Glory to God4 votes

Anything on Sivir?

v good pupper4 votes

Can Nasus's E please get an armor shred indicator? Nasus has a lot of poorly communicated power and this is the least you could do. Also isn't there any concern that Lux will become a monster after being buffed repeatedly?

RavenHusky4 votes

I believe that they're trying to make Lux better at higher levels of play without making her even more pubstompy at low elo, as was the intent of the ult cooldown reset, hence why they're buffing her utility rather than her raw damage.

Kloqdq3 votes

Meddler is there any word on Quinn? There were changes put up a couple of months ago and no news on it! I would love to hear if there is anything planned!

Raxistaicho3 votes

It's been about two months since you first mentioned the new Ahri/Amumu icons, any update on those? :D

RiotMeddler9 votes

Yeah, that looks like it got bogged down somewhere. I'll check in on what's happening there.

Scopé3 votes

Hey Meddler, any thoughts on Kindred? How are they doing after all the buffs? Are you planning to give them a little bit more power?

RiotMeddler9 votes

No current plans.

BacardiBatman3 votes

Can you make it so that when you ping smite it also shows how much damage it will do? Would love to not have to take my hand off my mouse during a baron or dragon fight ( I'm not a fast AND accurate typer)

GAARĂ3 votes

Are there any plans for Lissandra? Her 7.8 buffs only helped her with like 0.6% increase in her WR! And that's it.

ZaneShadow1 votes

This makes me happy. Thank you guys for increasing champ diversity in pro meta. I hope the pros take advantage of it. (Though they can be a bit slow to change tested methods I've learned). Anyways, thank you and I'm excited to see all these small tweeks, with some hopefully helping some pocket picks us Normies play.

Oh and I'd love to see 15+ changes, just because I love watching champs get closer to maybe earning a world champion skin.

ZaneShadow2 votes

Oh and I would weap tears of joy if you buffed Lux's shield. I've loved playing her a long time but her unviable shield makes it so support lux only pretends she's anything but an extra mage. Please, all I really want is a small buff, just for the early game at least to help act as a support then shift into a burst late game.

I'm begging here. Please give her shield an early game buff/viable in teamfight otherwise.

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