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Quick Gameplay Thoughts: September 19

RiotMeddler·9/19/2018, 3:41:02 PM·1 votes·145,962 views

Hi folks,

Usual Disclaimers

These posts will often contain talk about future work we're doing, or planning to do, that isn't yet guaranteed to ship. The nature of the work could change or, depending on what we discover, projects mentioned may get delayed or even stopped. If you'd like to see a Tweet whenever a new one of these posts goes up: https://twitter.com/RiotMeddler

Some more 8.19 context

Our thinking on a few more things we're looking at for patch 8.19:

  • Janna - As mentioned last week we're testing a buff to her passive's contribution to AA and W damage. Trying a larger buff this week (35% at all levels, instead of just late game), though might well go back to scaling values. Looking to get a clearer read on exactly how much power this lever gives.
  • Kog - We're been testing out buffs to Kog's Q shred, aimed at strengthening him a bit more as an anti tank pick, given he's currently a bit weak, that's been one of his historical niches. We’ve got some concerns about pushing a shred too high though, especially on a champ with reliable damage output like Kog. More likely we go for safer buffs at this point (e.g. potentially a bit of base MS and R range)
  • Thresh - Looking at giving Thresh a bit more power in the early game in extended trading/fishing, without buffing his all in when it happens. Testing Q mana cost and CD buffs as a result.
  • Nunu - Putting a bit of power into AP builds, since we're seeing those be quite a bit weaker than tank builds on average. Aiming to add only a small amount of power to tank builds and avoid buffing AP so much it becomes the only build you should choose. Also worth noting that what appears to be a significant nerf to his healing off champs is actually just a tooltip change (was always lower on champs, but tooltip didn’t reflect that)

Kassadin

We're also looking at Kassadin, though his changes will probably be in 8.20 at this point. Likely direction is that we chip a bit of damage off his Q and/or E AP ratios, make him a bit less dominant when he really gets rolling, given he's now got an easier time getting there with the lower ult CD early on. Haven't playtested those changes for him yet though, so possible our approach changes depending on how that goes.

Odyssey Leaderboards

In case you haven't seen them already we've been regularly posting Leaderboards for the Odyssey high scores, both top 10 by region and globally.

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/6J4vJkNs-the-odyssey-extraction-leaderboards-updated-sep-17

Something that's been particularly cool to see is the variety of different comps players have been using to post said scores. We were seeing a lot of Yasuo stacking early on, recently we've seen other things creep in, like a 1 Sona/4 Jinx strat that a couple of teams have pulled off really effectively.

Why we don't always buff a champion's defining strengths

A question I saw crop up quite a bit last week we when first talking about buffing Janna's AAs and W was why we were giving her damage instead of buffing her protective/peel spells, given those are why you pick her. We do often target a champion's defining traits when buffing them to try and get/keep distinction between different champs. In some cases though we'll get to a point where adding more power to those strengths starts creating other problems. Adding too much peel and shield to Janna or healing to Soraka for example can lead to excessive safety for the allies they're protecting and low interaction/consequence play for extended periods as a result. That means if we want to buff them that finding other places to put that power's sometimes the way we think we should go. Some of our recent buffs to some assassins have also involved a similar situation. While they're characters defined by their ability to burst down a target that doesn't necessarily mean that buffing their burst damage is always appropriate. We'll then go for things like ult CD for target access on Rengar, or increased slow % on Kha'Zix W for utility as a result.

http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/6.24.1/img/champion/Ziggs.png

209 Comments

Suero9/19/2018, 5:30:05 PM20 votes

Hello Meddler~

I've played about 5,000 games of Sona and since her Aura rework I've always felt like there should be a damage indicator when allies use her Q aura, Same to have how Leona's passive and Ardent shows the Allies damage. I noticed that on Odyssey Mode Sona has this visual effect and it feels really nice, especially since you'll see it a lot in a average game, I'm wondering if you keep/add this on Sona! Thank you

I don't know if i should put this here but there are some Sona Passive bugs that occurs to me nearly every game, e.g quickly using a basic ability after using your power chord wont apply a stack which messes your rotations completely (can easily recreate). power cord sometimes wont change if you auto attack quickly after using a basic ability.

Omituinen9/19/2018, 3:50:49 PM17 votes

Hi Meddler.

Any plans for toning down Ignite any time soon? Statistically pretty much every single support in the game is taking it at the moment over Exhaust and it usually pulls in better winrates than Exhaust too. Not to mention its popularity in mid and top lane too. As a support main I've started running it even though I much prefer taking Exhaust because early 2v2 fights where they have an Ignite and you don't just don't feel worth taking.

Any hope of it being nerfed at least a little soon (maybe after Worlds?), or seeing some buffs to more defensive summoners to make them more competitive? The whole issue of having 3 ignites per team in a fair few games can't be helping with the perception of damage being too high.

meteorbreaker9/19/2018, 3:50:17 PM8 votes

Hello!

Is there any news about Zyra? What will be for her?

And in my opinion we need nerfs LeBlanc, she now has quite a strong pressure.

Keìron9/19/2018, 4:48:17 PM5 votes

Dead man's plate feels pretty underwhelming at the moment. I think making the passive proc only on monsters and champions would make it less punishing to farm in the mid-late game.

ModJango Mage9/19/2018, 3:45:36 PM5 votes

Hey! You mentioned back then that you were planning to add more dragons to teh game. Can we perhaps expect them next year?

jocomotion9/19/2018, 4:41:05 PM5 votes

How’s the Karma revert/rework coming along?

Not going to stop till I get an answer.

Blupor9/19/2018, 3:53:31 PM4 votes

Regarding the Thresh buffs being tested, I think it’s important to note that the all-in damage does change if the player uses the Q buff as an incentive to put 3 points in Q (before diminishing returns), and add additional points to E. Something to consider if you want to avoid changing total damage after a hook, since Flay base damage increases by 30 for each rank, in addition to the stored autoattack damage. Thresh players will be less punished for more points in E after the Q buff; just something to think about if you want to avoid increasing damage in the all-in.

Zoli Ben9/19/2018, 4:06:49 PM4 votes

Hi Meddler! Can I ask you what happened to Urgot ult exection Pyke like indicator?

armatsu9/19/2018, 3:50:56 PM4 votes

Can we wait zyra changes in pre season or season 9?

420 grams9/19/2018, 3:56:26 PM4 votes

I know every one asks about their champ, but is there any minor rework plans for Fiora? Early game back side vitals are more punishing than rewarding, and being able to 1 v 1 mid/late game isn't too impressive because that's when team fights happen. Last season she was good for a while, but now that damage and mobility are super high, she doesn't fit into the game as well.

Fiora Fiora Fiora

King Livid9/20/2018, 10:28:21 PM4 votes

MORDEKAISER MORDEKAISE MORDEKAIS MORDEKAI MORDEKA MORDEK MORDE MORDEK MORDEKA MORDEKAI MORDEKAIS MORDEKAISE MORDEKAISER?

Mordekaiser summoner 3

Keshaun9/19/2018, 7:00:33 PM4 votes

The problem with Kassadin is he's able to get through laning phase really easy now since Fleet synergizes really well with him. Obviously, you can gank-gank-gank and shut him down that way, but most of the time your jungler won't do that for you. So now you're left in a 1v1 that favors Kassadin since Fleet heals for so much and you normally start Dorans shield. The sustain is too high and we can't forget about the reduced damage from his passive vs magic damage. If you're playing an AD champion, the passive doesn't relate to them, but it's Kassadin can still sustain decent in lane with all the resources.

Nibbie2179/19/2018, 3:59:42 PM3 votes

Hi Meddler! How has the aatrox buffs landed in the team's opinion? And is there any more work lined up for him?

Fízz v29/19/2018, 4:24:11 PM3 votes

Im curious what Riot thinks about low vs high elo balance? For quite a long while now, you mostly have to play high skill cap champs like Ryze, Taliyah, Cassio, Camille, etc. in high elo, since they wont be a problem in lower elos even when overpowered. (lane) Assassins are semi-troll picks minus some outliers like Kassadin for a while (maybe now again) and Talon recently.

Is this a problem you want to fix/is even possible to fix?

Glory to God9/19/2018, 4:09:23 PM3 votes

I'm gonna ask again about Sivir since she was on the bottom of the list you provided last time, just above Nunu. Are you planning to make her gameplay more appealing? She's a pretty interesting character to me and her bandit theme is pretty resonating in her voicelines, yet it's lacking in her kit.

PumpPenta9/27/2018, 6:25:10 PM2 votes

nobody likes to see a ranged master yi thats disgusting so stop asking for adc buffs they don't have a reason to add damage to them.

Gnart Even Close9/19/2018, 4:01:52 PM2 votes

Can you tell us if any work is planned for Gnar? Back in patch 8.4, Riot Endstep mentioned that some work was in development that never got pushed to PBE or live.

“We have some really promising exploration for Gnar potentially coming in a future patch that we wanted to put in 8.4 but didn't have time to properly validate. It's intended to be a set of win-win changes to make Gnar's gameplay feel more fluid and rewarding but also give him more windows of opportunity to use against him and in general make playing against him a more interesting/fun experience - can't say more than that but personally I really like the direction. It's currently looking unlikely we'll get to it soon but I'm hoping we'll manage to get it in a future patch at some point.” https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/Js0ngspm-patch-chat-with-the-playtest-team-84?comment=00430000

Any information on this whatsoever is greatly appreciated, even if it's just that the work is cancelled. =)

Gondall9/19/2018, 11:49:59 PM2 votes

Hey Meddler,

Wondering on the thoughts behind the Darius buffs given his reputation for dominating low ELO, recent success and LCS play, and the recent Yorick nerfs?

SnugglePuggle949/20/2018, 12:03:59 AM2 votes

Hey Meddler,

We really need to talk about Sejuani. I get that she's a major LCS champ, but why nerf her so atrociously just for Worlds? She didn't need her ult duration nerfed over half it's original amount! 3 seconds down to 1?! I really have to shake my head in disbelief, but then again not much surprises me anymore until you all come up with the NEXT horrible change.

You could've done like 3 down to 2 and or something, not shave two whole seconds off. I hope this nerf is reverted after Worlds is done because we don't need another "Sejani'd #2."

kys balance team9/20/2018, 1:38:02 AM2 votes

Hi Meddler! About Darius buffs, he doesnt need them. If you are trying to make a champion capable of dealing with tanks, why don't you go other way around. Darius has enough high ban rate and those buffs will only amp it up, so why don't you try to take some power off from tanks. And there doesnt have to be particular champion nerfs, just make Grasp deal 1% less dmg, and heal for 0,5% less (4%/2% > 3% > 1,5%).

Martian Spartan9/20/2018, 1:59:52 AM2 votes

Udyr's phoenix please

Sagee Prime9/20/2018, 4:35:49 AM2 votes

Meddler... man what is going on with Nidalee? You tell us maybes and maybes but she's been sitting in the gutter for a long time. She's a paper tiger trying to play as some odd combination of poke, brawler, and assassin while failing at all of them and her only defense is mobility and her mobility is becoming more and more of a joke with every patch you guys release. You keep indirectly nerfing her with each buff and rework you give to her counters. You haven't undone any of the past nerfs to her kit which in league's current state would have been completely unwarranted.

She's not the fastest jungler, the safest jungler, or even a good early game jungler and she doesn't shine in team fights or late game.

You get this nice sweet spot somewhere in the accelerated mid game where she might be great but it's so hit or miss that you are almost always relying on your teammates to execute a perfect early game just so you can be relevant.

She's too slow and too squishy for how hit or miss/feast or famine her kit is. She's too squishy and you expect us to do this whole melee deal with 0 CC, average to below average mobility, no CC reduction, no reliable anything to her kit. She's supposed to be one of the epitome of skill expression champions but you've taken to trying to balancing her via clunkiness, sluggishness, and squishiness.

Her combo's are difficult to achieve especially on the ridiculous level of mobility currently in the game and even harder to even get started with her binary hunt mechanic. Isn't is hilarious how mobility creep has been hurting a champion that used to be among Leagues most mobile champions? Half the champion pool can run us down and murder us with very little effort if we lose the element of surprise and it's so easy to lose the element of surprise. A guy that fights people with a lamppost shouldn't be able to run us down or beat us in a race across the map... a horse sure but a guy with a freaking lamppost???

Look you don't need a massive team effort to look into her. You have people that would love to work on her at RIOT and you have tons of Nidalee players that have been trying to give you feedback for years but you've been ignoring us and balancing her in ways that are counter intuitive and just outright nearsighted. We've had plenty of ideas and feedback for you but no one is listening.

Please stop trying to turn an apex predator known for being extremely nimble, evasive, mobile, and deadly and trying to turn them into a sluggish clumsy toad with a cat skin. Cougar feels like playing game of frogger against oncoming traffic too often

Please listen to what we have to say and actually consider our input instead of taking the input of a few that have no idea what Nidalee even is.

So many people hate the idea of Nidalee getting most to a point where she's a competitive pick in ranked and the competitive scene but most of those players do not want a Nidalee in their game unless it's on the enemy team and there's a good reason for that. You ignored us before, you messed up, and now we're paying the price for it.

That's it. You're probably not going to respond but man we've been waiting and waiting and waiting. She doesn't need massive buffs or reworks just to be functional. A skilled hunter, and apex predator, a battle cat not a prey item.

rtbf2256182419/20/2018, 11:46:42 AM2 votes

Why the hell would you put damage into the only Support that shouldn't even have damage in her kit? Janna's an utiility Support. AP damage scalings have basically ruined her into a braindead champion who most people abuse shit like Ardent and Grail on by spamming W and E.

Either rework her W or stop giving her damage. In my opinion, she shouldn't be even encouraged to buy damage items as they are inferior in every way to utility items with actives.

FusRoDah9/19/2018, 3:45:22 PM2 votes

Hey Meddler could you let us know what you think about Orianna after her latest nerfs?

Tazxzx9/21/2018, 1:39:51 PM2 votes

Hello Meddler I just wanted to ask you one thing, are you going to touch ap shaco someday? item 3364 and item 2055 really counter him and his ap scalings on E are really bad.

Blakiepug9/21/2018, 8:51:12 PM2 votes

Buff Tahm Kench. This balance team is the worst.

Sire Hippington9/23/2018, 1:28:48 PM2 votes

I don't think buffing kogs anti tank power is a good aproach. Kogs issue isn't that he doesn't kill tanks well enough, his issue is that it's prettymuch all he does. This wouldn't be an issue if it was a meaninfgull strength, but right now nearly all adc can bust tanks with little to no effort, especially kaisa and varus(the two most ontested adc in pro...), so why pick kog who pays alot for his damage when you can get nearly the same dps with much more aditional strengths/less weaknesses on other champs? Maybe small buffs to his E or finally makeing ap viable on him again would be nice, but his dpos is big enough, it's just other carries that have to much dps for what their kit offers on top.

HellionX29/24/2018, 10:02:44 PM2 votes

Hi Meddler, Can we please consider a Grave rework revert, or explore bringing back his old kit onto a new character. One other option is that in champ select you could choose which gun you want to take out with graves

  1. Rifle - his old kit and mechanics, keeping some things in place maybe reworking his passive and toning it down on his e for adc graves. keeping r knock back.
  2. shotgun load out- allows you to play as current graves.

The problem with new graves in my eyes isn't his idea or how hes supposed to work. The shotgun is actually very fitting, however hes a nightmare to balacne and is always op when in meta. He 1 shots squishes, shreds tanks, survives assassins, scales well, out duels early, clears fast and healthier than any jungle. Hes just overall an issue in my eyes, and Id prefer a full revert but if thats not an option id like to see a compromise for players like me who would LOVE to play old graves.

I've been trying really hard to get this opinion to reach a dev and those with power in the games production. I just really want you guys to know that there are a % of us out there who would really love something like this.

I miss adc graves Please Consider Thanks!

NegaRed9/19/2018, 4:01:23 PM1 votes

Hello Meddler, a year ago you said in a post that Ezreal wil get a spell change, what is the state of the rework actually if it's no't too much to ask?