Quick Gameplay Thoughts: July 6

RiotMeddler·7/6/2018, 3:44:21 PM·1 votes·94,539 views

Hi folks,

Usual Disclaimers

These posts will often contain talk about future work we're doing, or planning to do, that isn't yet guaranteed to ship. The nature of the work could change or, depending on what we discover, projects mentioned may get put delayed or even stopped. If you'd like to see a Tweet whenever a new one of these posts goes up: https://twitter.com/RiotMeddler

Impact of 8.13b

We've been looking at the impact of the mini patch from earlier this week (8.13b). Looking reasonable so far, with moderate amounts of power as hoped added to Trist, Cait and Varus. We're keeping an eye on Aatrox, since we're starting to see some really strong performances from him on players who've got passed the initial learning curve. Also watching a couple of ADCs who were doing well before the changes who've benefited a bit from the Stormrazor change (e.g. Draven). No immediate plans to make changes to them, but want to make sure we haven't over buffed.

Lissandra

As mentioned previously we've been testing a new Lissandra passive internally for a couple of weeks. It's been going fairly well, so figured I'd share a look at it as a result, despite some risk it still might not work out. Given this is still earlier in testing I've also omitted some numbers and those that are listed are more to give an example of how it works than because they're necessarily what could ship.

"Iceborn

When a champion Lissandra has damaged within the last 3 seconds dies they become a Frozen Statue. Frozen Statues slow nearby enemies by 30%. After 2.5 seconds Frozen Statues shatter, dealing X (+Y AP ratio) magic damage to nearby enemies."

Intent is to help Lissandra's contributions to multi enemy fights after she's used her initial CDs. Use cases include getting a zone of control after diving in and killing a backline target and helping zone enemies after killing enemy divers or other front line. Doesn't have as much impact early game, but has proven useful in some early 2v2s when both junglers show up and early objective fights. If going ahead with it would be paired with some mana cost reductions to her kit. Statues also count as terrain, so they'll both block pathing slightly and can be combo'd with things like Gnar ult, Poppy E etc.

In terms of time frame, we'll probably have a clear enough read on whether the gameplay's solid pretty soon, so will likely make a call on whether or not to go ahead within a week or two. One of the downsides of changing abilities like this however is that, where it's a big departure from previous functionality, there's a need for a bunch of art and audio work. Not sure yet what the likely timeframe on that would be, would take a while though.

More 8.14 changes to hit the PBE today/next week

For anyone wondering why the PBE's been pretty quiet and where followup changes to various mages stuff's still coming. Should be some more balance changes to champions getting into the patch today and in the first half of next week. Since 8.13-8.14 is a 3 week patch we've been taking some time earlier in the cycle to work on other things, champ changes still coming though.

http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/6.24.1/img/champion/Ziggs.png

249 Comments

Yesterdawg7/6/2018, 3:48:01 PM38 votes

Wow! That is an inspired passive and fits the Ice Witch theme perfectly. Kudos!

Frozen Diva7/6/2018, 4:01:09 PM25 votes

The Lissandra passive is impressive. Holy this would make her so unique, she would be the teamfighting queen. And it fits so perfectly omg. This needs to happen and I wanna try it ASAP. :)

You‘ve mentioned a few changes to W end E. Can we get some details? Do you think it‘s possible to move some dmg from her E to her W?

Good Job! Honestly reading this made me happy.

NyzoiB7/6/2018, 3:56:29 PM13 votes

Hey Meddler,

This new passive sounds great on paper imho, this is the first time it's actually thematically on point, and interesting. I think this is the right direction to take. Thanks for the update on it, and hopefully we'll know for sure soon.

Lissandra

Raxistaicho7/6/2018, 3:51:51 PM9 votes

How's Irelia looking now that the results from her nerf are clear? What about with thr upcoming teleport nerf? That might hit her extremely hard, owing to her being very much not a dominant laner.

ImaginesTigers7/6/2018, 3:49:19 PM8 votes

I feel awful asking again, because I know you're inundated by these requests every time you post, but did you land anywhere in particular on Syndra?

Additionally: the TP nerfs hit PBE yesterday. Those are big nerfs. Do you have some context? :)

And last but not least: do you think, if these Lissandra changes (which I like) are to ship, she'll have her mana costs tweaked a little?

Chubbles7/6/2018, 3:47:59 PM8 votes

AHhhhhh I'm finally on time! Many true tanks like Zac, Sej, Naut, etc seem to be weak in solo queue (imo). Does that match what you see and if it does do you have any plans to buff them?

Jhinseng Strip7/6/2018, 3:48:32 PM8 votes

Hey Meddler, are you guys planning on doing some Vi buffs?

IxtaliKing7/6/2018, 3:57:32 PM7 votes

That Lissandra passive is a lot better than I expected, can't wait to try it out xD.

Also, I've seen the Karma changes that Rickless is trying out and I'm concerned that they're missing the point again. Particularly the fact that he wants to increase the hitbox of Q and nerf RQs base damage without scaling compensation, and lower the cost of her shield.

Her shield is weak and unreliable, wouldn't it make more sense to buff the MS component of her shield? For example; extending the duration of the MS to match the shield (2.5s) with a decay.

FrostySkipper7/6/2018, 5:42:56 PM7 votes

Hey Meddler, Any plans on Talon nerfs? He's been pick ban lately. His winrate and playrate skyrocketed after the Q "hotfix". I suggest looking at one of these options:

  • Remove half of the Q range buff that u gave him (I AM sure most of the Talon mains had no problems playing him pre-hotfix. Ppl that asked for this "hotfix" were either bad at him or didn't know how to position themselves)
  • Revert his MR buff from one of the earlier patches
  • Do something about his W + Tiamat instant waveclear (Increase CD of W or mana cost)
mkwstar7/6/2018, 3:55:56 PM7 votes

Hello Meddler. Thank you for the communication with the community.

Nautilus Top is currently sitting at a 46.6% winrate and a 0.3% pickrate at Platinum and higher according to lolalytics. In past seasons, Nautilus Top has been a low-damage, high-CC tank top laner to accompany teams with much damage, but low crowd control.

Are there any current plans to give Naut top a power boost so he can come back to 1v1 laning, but without making him overbearing as a support, where he is not that bad of a pick?

Thanks!

Solari Fortune7/6/2018, 4:06:35 PM6 votes

Oh that Liss Passive seems really neat

Also would it be possible to allow Leona to be able to E onto at the most Epic Monsters perhaps? Large monsters be neat but I am not sure the impact it would cause. It would just be nice to have some kinda way to escape if you are being chased alone and don't have flash or a blast cone available

DaPinkPanther7/6/2018, 4:07:16 PM6 votes

For lissandra passive, would an ornn E destroy it? And if it does would the shatter still happen

Sparr1267/6/2018, 4:05:36 PM5 votes

OMG!I LOVE THE IDEA! I think this passive fits lissandra and her gameplay perfectly!

The Iceborn7/6/2018, 4:18:01 PM5 votes

Speaking on Lissandra... That passive sounds amazing... Her biggest issue is that when she dives she has still long cooldowns on her w and e so that passive would be perfect to make sure she isnt useless in that period of time. A minor reduction in mana cost would still be appreciate but the passive is definitely a cool idea!

midorii7/6/2018, 4:25:25 PM5 votes

What a totally dope passive.
Literally from most underwhelming passive to potentially horrifying ice garden of frozen corpse bombs.

Hope Ahri's passive gets upgraded to something as cool as this.

GigiFabulous7/6/2018, 6:05:52 PM5 votes

I don't even play Lissandra and I'm excited for that passive. It sounds incredibly cool (pardon the pun)

Punish betrayers7/6/2018, 8:33:53 PM5 votes

Hello Meddler, any plan to nerf Talon? He seem too strong atm.

square seven7/6/2018, 3:51:33 PM4 votes

Hey Meddler, love the idea on the new Liss passive! Her kit's great but it does sometimes feel a little simple when you've played a lot on her, so throwing something spicy like that into it would go a long way to make her more fun and distinguished imo.

On another note, any update on the timings of Karma's bandaid buffs on PBE and also her mini-rework? I know you mentioned that some more mages would be on today's update, so does that include her?

Love the work you've been doing lately, keep it up!

FafliX7/8/2018, 2:35:39 AM4 votes

I know a lot of people have praised the new Lissandra passive, but honestly this sounds so bad. I don't know, it sounds so gimmicky. It doesn't actually help her with anything meaningful. If you already killed someone, you already won most of the time. If you hit the 4 man ult in teamfights, you already did so much you win most of the time, and if not then you are usually so far behind or outnumbered that it doesn't matter anyway. It is useless in lane, one of her biggest weaknesses right now. It is useless in any 1vs1 scenario, and even with more people you would need to hit an ability that you can't aim and that has a 2.5 second delay. Not to mention that creating terrain that you might not want can easily be a downside.

Don't get me wrong, thematically this is nice, and her old passive was strong, but it was basically just a lot of mana regen. If her base costs are lowered this would be a non factor. But anyway. It just sounds so... weird. Maybe I was just hoping for something more skill and outplay based. Like getting rewarded for hitting many Qs in a row or something, or for hitting a specific window of opportunity, or not getting hit. This rewards you for doing something difficult, sure, but you don't really have much control over it. You can't really control how much use you get out of this by playing well.

It's almost like Cho passive (okay, not that bad, but still). You get more for doing something you already want to do. It doesn't actually change your play pattern. You can't go "Yeah I used my passive this way and got something for it!".
When you get a kill because of it, it's more like "Yeah, I didn't do anything different, and got this kill just because!" Unlike reset passives, you don't actually get to do something after getting the kill. You just watch as it happens and maybe works... or not. Not like you can do anything to help really. You may in very few situations be able to hold them in place with your W or R, but how often do you really kill someone with one of those still up and them standing next to someone. If people stand together you already want to use your W and R on them. You don't want to wait and hope one of them dies to then use your spells to hold them in place. It's not like waiting to kill your opponent or something like that is actually a good idea, no matter how good this passive is. You just have to hope your opponent dies in a good position.

I love the idea for her E though, that sounds like it would really help and be very fun to use.

Captain Mainguy7/6/2018, 6:28:37 PM4 votes

This sounds like a super cool thematically relevant and interesting game play passive. If this does ship, which it may not we know that, but if it does. It'll be super fun.

Sw4de7/6/2018, 8:27:03 PM4 votes

are riot really going to continue to ignore fizz's illogical ultimate? Why is a completely 100% melee champion being punished for engaging within his fighting range, can 1 single person from riot actually try and explain to me how that makes any sense, i doubt i will ever get an answer.

Foucz7/6/2018, 3:58:13 PM4 votes

Hello, ever since Soraka rework her E - Equinox has been bugged. It is supposed to silence if you stand in it however if you put it under someone in statis Bard Aatrox PoppyZilean item 3157item 3026 they will be able to flash out of it or buffer some escape skill like Tristana -W or Ezreal -E before silence is applied.

Same for freshly teleported targets

if Vlad teleports into soraka E he can W anyway

Equinox should be one of the most skill expressive spells of Soraka this bug makes it incredibly frustrating. Could you please try and fix it ?

Sherpa mule7/6/2018, 5:06:21 PM3 votes

I love that the Liss passive is like an icy version of Brand's. It makes their antagonism that much spicier.

meteorbreaker7/6/2018, 4:12:59 PM3 votes

Hello Meddler! Any plans about Zyra? Where the plant changes that should have been? When will the changes be relative to her solo position? in particular midlane Zyra.

Dusky Stars7/6/2018, 11:15:53 PM3 votes

Pleeeeeassse make this a thing

Hachira7/6/2018, 3:49:20 PM3 votes

How's the cursor update going?

Non-gameplay related, but think we might see some new button art for items soon? Always loved seeing those updates.

Zac in Black7/8/2018, 5:15:48 AM2 votes

Hey Meddler, any chance the Zac mains community could get any type of communication about our feelings on the rework? One of our Master players, Gankr, has made a substantial comment reflecting his and the community's thoughts on the rework and we would all like to hear if you have any plans for Zac for the future.

Thanks in advance if you do get around to answering any of our concerns. Zac

Solidair37/6/2018, 3:49:35 PM2 votes

Thoughts on Syndra and Karma?

Both are in a pretty weak spot, even for champions who have classically needed to be a little weak due to pro-play.

I know you said Karma will need more work down the road, but can we expect some numbers buffs in the meantime until she can get the love she needs?

T8 Speedwagon7/6/2018, 3:55:30 PM2 votes

Quick question about liss new passive: if an enemy ornn (or even ally) charges towards a frozen statue, does he destroy it or will he proc the shatter earlier and so taking damage (or pop damage on enemies if ally)?

Saphirex7/6/2018, 3:56:00 PM1 votes

When can we expect the cursor update to hit live? Pre-season?

Another question: Is the learning curve of a champion still important in today champion design?