Quick Gameplay Thoughts: November 22

RiotMeddler·11/22/2018, 5:29:39 PM·1 votes·166,056 views

Hi folks,

Usual Disclaimers

These posts will often contain talk about future work we're doing, or planning to do, that isn't yet guaranteed to ship. The nature of the work could change or, depending on what we discover, projects mentioned may get delayed or even stopped. If you'd like to see a Tweet whenever a new one of these posts goes up: https://twitter.com/RiotMeddler


Overall Game State

We're getting some initial impressions of how the preseason changes have landed. Thoughts on those below. Early days still, so not putting too much faith yet that what we're seeing is representative of how things will necessarily settle down. Still getting some really useful early data and observations though.

As a quick repeat our big goals were:

  • Reduce cases of outer towers going down too quickly, while still rewarding early aggression/advantage
  • Make comebacks more achievable
  • Have games that are a foregone conclusion end quicker (less time waiting for a statistically inevitable loss)
  • Allow more flexible rune choices by decoupling rune stats from paths

What we're seeing so far:

  • Outer towers are falling a minute or two later on average, resulting in fewer laning phases over extremely early
  • Average game length hasn't changed meaningfully however, despite those later outer tower falls. That suggests some of the game resolving changes, like those to Epic Monster spawn times, are helping decided games get closed out.
  • Looks like teams aren't quite as likely to win as they were previously after taking early/mid objectives, suggesting early snowball might be down/comeback chance up. Need to dig into data here a lot more though, more on this next week most likely.

Once we've got a clearer picture on things we'll dig more into how each individual change in 8.23 is working, see whether we should be adjusting numbers on things like turret plating gold, tower stats, bounty calculations, individual camps etc or not.


Champions in 8.23 so far

Stronger Champs

Ezreal is looking a bit stronger, though not enormously so. Initial impression is that the Klepto change doesn't change its attractiveness that much for him, which might suggest we need to refine Klepto's CD, trigger rate etc further. We did also just straight buff Ezreal this patch though, so don't want to judge prematurely until we've got a better handle on what did what.

Lissandra also seems slightly stronger. We're expecting Lissandra players will also get better at taking advantage of her changes, playing around things like changes to her mana access, E speed, new passive. Wouldn't be surprised if she looks a bit stronger again in a week or two. Having said that also expecting opponents to get better at avoiding Frozen Thralls (seeing a lot of people ignoring them and paying for it right now), so possible those two effects cancel each other out power wise. Looking at the different positions she's played in mid/top are still dramatically more effective than support, so so far at least doesn't look like her scaling's too weak or her inherent utility too strong.

Karthus is performing noticeably better too. Could just be small sample size, also possible changes to game pacing like the extended laning phase are particularly beneficial for him though.

Weaker champs

Gangplank has been hit pretty noticeably. Possible that reflects changes to Runes. Klepto's likely less effective on him given difficulty getting the second proc off. The Resolve tree's potentially less appealing to him too, given Chrysalis's removal, and we're still seeing him take Grasp and Klepto roughly equally. Also possible something's just bugged with him though, we did rescript him a bit behind the scenes to fix some other issues. Digging into those possibilities and more to see what's going on, seeing him weaker's not something we were targeting.

Irelia is looking a bit weaker in mid specifically, which is encouraging given her over performance there. Need to investigate more, both to understand what's driving that change and assess her overall state now.

Taliyah jungle seems to be quite a bit weaker so far. Possible we hit her too hard there, expect her to bounce back though as junglers adjust to the changes. Cautiously optimistic that this set of changes will have helped with balancing her for both mid and jungle.

All Other Champs

Most champs have had their performance impacted a bit, those not listed above don't seem to have changed significantly though. We'll be back to looking at regular balance in patch 8.24 and onwards. We don't have 8.24 changes planned just yet, going to let things settle a little more and then pick targets early next week.


Runes in 8.23

Dark Harvest was clearly out of line. We hotfixed on the first day as a result, hitting both base damage and scaling. Now assessing it again.

Klepto wise we're waiting a bit before drawing any conclusions. Possible Ezreal's still too bound to it. Seeing some new champs perform reasonable with it but nothing out of line. Lucian for example is effective with it, but it's certainly not mandatory for him or excessively powerful so far.

http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/6.24.1/img/champion/Ziggs.png

290 Comments

Holgranth11/22/2018, 5:42:52 PM41 votes

Leaving win rate and balance out of the equation and focusing purely on design. The fact that shroud gives "true stealth" under enemy turrets gives massive agency to Akali while removing agency from her opponent(s). Do you think the added agency given to the Akali player outweighs the agency taken from her opponent? Is there "enough" counter-play?

Buff Riven Plz11/22/2018, 5:31:37 PM21 votes

Hey meddler any thoughts on the scaling cdr rune? It seems to scale a bit slow.

Sad Robot Amumu11/22/2018, 5:38:50 PM19 votes

Current thoughts on Celerity? Popular consensus is that it's pretty weak now, but I'm interested in seeing if the data backs that up.

Mordepool11/22/2018, 5:31:15 PM18 votes

Overall Defensive Buffs When.

I mean actual reduction in damage not the twofaced nerfs to defenses we have seen thus far.

RiotMeddler11/22/2018, 5:32:23 PM15 votes

Update since time of writing: Looks like a lot of the GP issue was a bug with his ult. That's been hotfixed, we'll see how he does now and whether other stuff's also hit him too hard.

how do i clímb11/22/2018, 5:41:12 PM10 votes

Hi Meddler, what happened to item 3161 since I thought it was supposed to be released in the pre-season?

Buff Riven Plz11/22/2018, 5:35:50 PM10 votes

Also can the item 3071 build path get changed? It feels pretty bad having to sit on 15 AD untill the item is completed. Maybe something like item 3133 item 3067 or something? Thoughts on this?

Wukong Airlines11/22/2018, 7:48:57 PM9 votes

So you say Irelia is "weaker" in midlane, and that's not ok so you will [[ investigate more, both to understand what's driving that change and assess her overall state now ]], you instantly rush to fix whatever is in favor of meta, but you can't decide/bother with a clearly outdated champion [Wukong].

Speaking of Wukong, what do you think of his state now that new Runes put him on a 57% win ratio? lemme guess, [possible nerfs]. amiright?

Lord Fury11/23/2018, 12:48:23 AM9 votes

When are you going to tank junglers out of the shitter? Sejuani/Gragas/Zac/Skarner have been at the bottom of the barrel since scuttle changes (besides sej who has been at the bottom since nerfs and by a huge margin). Then you have Trundle and Olaf. Trundle is garbage because tanks are not played nearly as much anymore since the bruiser update and Olaf just can't compete with the highly aggressive junglers that have far better gank potential. Not even worth mentioning "off meta" shit like Diana or Rumble who have absolutely no chance since the scuttle update.

Queen Sèjuani11/22/2018, 5:33:40 PM8 votes

Any news on the Sejuani and other tank changes that were suppose to come back this pbe cycle?

Malza11/22/2018, 6:22:52 PM6 votes

Revert singed nerfs, make towers stronger if they give so much gold.

Jinkuzu11/22/2018, 6:07:30 PM6 votes

Hey Meddler

I know you're a busy person and probably wont see this question.

But here I go. How well is tradtional marksmen performing? I recently hit the breaking point from how poor crit marksmen feels to play, Stormrazor feeling like a early game bandaid that you rather sell around 3 items cause you rather have another zeal by that point.

I know it's a meme from Tyler but plz revert crit items....

Shinrai11/23/2018, 2:18:08 AM6 votes

Hi, any idea to bring back Taliyah mid ?

Leroswend11/23/2018, 6:42:36 AM6 votes

Thoughts on Lucian atm? he seems to be far and away the best marksman right now with no-one else able to realistically compete with him. Also thoughts on possibly making Electrocute and Dark harvest deal purely magic damage? just feels like most AD assassins get way too much value from stacking lethality because they do so much more physical damage than before the rune changes due to adaptive damage being affected by lethality.

Smartness Immune11/22/2018, 7:30:09 PM5 votes

Any buffs on the radar for Corki and RekSai ? Maybe some mana changes for Azir ? I'd love to see something changed bout' these dudes.

YaShIr011/24/2018, 11:28:58 PM5 votes

if Irelia got a buff, I'm gonna quit this game, you can't be this blind about how that champion is not balanced.

Pastor Yorick11/22/2018, 6:58:46 PM5 votes

What happened do Ornn passive rework? Can we see it come live soon? Yorick's Ghouls are now terrible to let them push by themselves and even if you help them they get killed way faster by mage minions,since all the minions have been buffed,can we expect a buff to him or his ghouls?

ModAcademy Kayn11/22/2018, 10:56:32 PM5 votes

I remember a long time ago, you posted a graph showing the percent of games that are "Decided" yet drag on, versus games that are quickly decided, versus games that are roughly "undecided".

With the new changes, and any future changes to the system, would it be possible to see another graph of the same kind later on sometime?

Eldeazar11/23/2018, 12:16:04 AM5 votes

I am going to wait to play League until Dark Harvest gets another hotfix. The fact that it can proc with EVERY damaging ability is too much. Then what are comet, electrocute and fleet footwork doing in the game? Dark harvest answers all your bursty needs in pretty much any damage based champion. Lyandri's procing dark harvest and ranged champs getting the same stacks as melee. Jesus take the wheel and drive me away

Jinx and Twitch11/22/2018, 5:58:50 PM5 votes

Hello meddler was wondering if the relic shield bug where the holder of relic gets +2 CS and the bot laner gets +0 is intentional or are you looking into fixing it? Thanks for your time meddler

lil chuan11/23/2018, 1:36:26 PM4 votes

Any thoughts on Corki? He's still hardly seeing play, hes one of the only champs not listed on OP.GG due to lack of sample size

Pokemonred20011/22/2018, 5:36:02 PM4 votes

I know you're not on the Nexus Blitz team, but do you have any ideas on how item 3154 could potentially stay in the mode while satisfying the original fantasy of the item? August said his version not satisfying the original item's fantasy is the reason it's been removed, but given it was a jungle item for a majority of its time in the game (with its old lore even stating it was crafted specifically for jungle navigation), I'm not sure how this would best be done, given it seems like it would clash with existing jungle items in the mode, most notably item 4105 and item 4102.

Ornnhub Premium11/22/2018, 7:06:15 PM4 votes

Any plans to buff Shyvana or maybe somewhere in the future the possiblity of a small scale rework again so that she isnt overbearing when good or just plain mediocre

Netorare11/24/2018, 3:36:49 PM3 votes

So, u guys will still ignore the playerbase when they talk about the state of the game being trash and dmg needs to be nerfed.

Laceration11/22/2018, 9:34:14 PM3 votes

how are lethality champs doingthis patch>?!? care to comment??! zeds q does 38 damage if they hide behind minions btw :)

FusRoDah11/22/2018, 5:35:33 PM3 votes

Any news on the state of LeBlanc? You guys mentioned that you were going light on nerfing her since you suspected these preseason changes would also negatively affect her!

VLADS NOT HOT11/24/2018, 6:51:31 PM3 votes

So what is about bringing the bruiser items out like atmas ?You said after you didnt brought them out on 8.12 that they will come out in the preseason again.So why we dont have bruiser items in the ´preseason ?

Tantarboy11/22/2018, 5:41:44 PM3 votes

Hey meddler, what’s your favourite platformer game? Also is there a chance of League collabing with other games/media? (An example that comes to mind is Shovel Knight cause that dude is everywhere and I love it lol)

loli nukes11/22/2018, 5:37:40 PM2 votes

So meddler do you want to support taliyah jungle as a permanent thing or is it completely secondary to mid taliyah. Sucks when new champs come in then end up considered unhealthy and removed out, just wondering thoughts on taliyah jungle overall.