Quick Gameplay Thoughts: August 29

RiotMeddler·8/29/2018, 3:08:49 PM·1 votes·195,078 views

Hi folks,

Usual Disclaimers

These posts will often contain talk about future work we're doing, or planning to do, that isn't yet guaranteed to ship. The nature of the work could change or, depending on what we discover, projects mentioned may get delayed or even stopped. If you'd like to see a Tweet whenever a new one of these posts goes up: https://twitter.com/RiotMeddler


Next post: Some Early Preseason Details

For the second post later this week we're gonna have Scruffy jump in again with some further details on things we're experimenting with for preseason. Potential changes include buffs to early tower durability, changes to bounties based off learnings this year and snowball/comeback focused work.


Current thinking on balance for Worlds

We did some planning recently to identify initial targets for Worlds balance. Run through of that below. As usual this is subject to change. Worlds will be played on the 8.19 patch, though we're aiming to have a lot of the changes in for 8.18 in case any of them need followup. We believe the pro meta's in a decent spot overall. The overall targets we're using for Worlds balance are:

  • An interesting and fun to watch experience is most important from a viewer perspective.
  • A diverse meta's good, but not as important as interesting matches (better low diversity and exciting games than high diversity and slow, uneventful play repeatedly)
  • No champions should be 100% pick/ban, or very close to it
  • No major disruption (minimal systemic changes especially, changes to individual champs especially are more appropriate)
  • While we're putting more attention into pro balance for the next couple of patches, ideally any changes made should be positive for regular play as well. If not they should at at minimum not be highly harmful to regular balance. That's the case in particular when it comes to buffing champs, with a fair number we believe could buff into pro play relevance but only by making them inappropriately strong for regular players.

Based off those principles the changes we're currently looking at making are as follows.

Nerfs:

  • Trundle - Jungle dominance
  • Gragas - Jungle dominance (though does lead to interesting early play, especially with increasing common Predator builds)
  • Gnar - pushing champs out of top lane
  • Ryze - limiting mid picks
  • Braum - dominant support pick

Buffs:

  • Renekton (lacking from top and has some room for buffs in regular play as well)
  • Vayne (unseen in pro, on the weak side in regular play)

Some other points:

  • Top Lane - Watching a range of champs for their performance top, though nothing currently slated for them (Aatrox, Sion, Ornn, Cho, Mundo). Also want to ensure we're not balancing in a way that leaves blind picking a tank for top each type the default, low risk behavior.
  • Mid lane - While it would be cool to see Zed we don't have the room to buff him in regular play. Ekko would be interesting too for playstyle diversity, also lacking in regular play room though, plus has some tendency to low risk play at times (wave clear with Q, R to prevent deaths happening etc). Attractiveness of Galio is likely to change a lot depending on how safe tanks are as picks in other positions.
  • Electrocute/Dark Harvest - We're expecting some migration from Electrocute to Dark Harvest, especially for junglers, given they don't get much benefit from the lower Electrocute CD but certainly feel the damage nerf. Watching to see who that benefits/hurts.
  • Akali - Suspect we'll need to nerf her, want to give her a bit longer to see where she settles though, to better understand both how strong she is with a more experienced player base and how large the delta between pro and regular play is or isn't
  • Sejuani - A likely pro issue, especially with nerfs to Gragas and Trundle planned. At the same time she's in a pretty sad state in regular play. Might be able to find changes that lower pro value without further hitting regular, those sorts of changes are riskier to land accurately though which is a concern at this time of year.
  • Kai'Sa - Possible we chip her down given her consistently high presence and usefulness. Still discussing however. She doesn't have strong lane counters, marksmen in general are fairly blind pickable however.
  • Tahm Kench - Trying to get a better understanding of where the 8.16 changes left him. Was certainly a concern beforehand, unclear how big an issue he currently is. TK's a particular concern if too common a pick given he can dampen action more than most champs.
  • Annie - Possible we see some support play from her again, given the AA range nerf was what previously pushed her out of the meta. Also very possible things are just different enough now that that won't matter too much.

http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/6.24.1/img/champion/Ziggs.png

496 Comments

Ninetales8/29/2018, 3:20:49 PM28 votes

Hi Meddler,

Now that the Yorick nerfs have been put into place, what is the time frame we are looking at before you review and determine the next plan of action? I'd hate for you to gut him with this change and leave him for dust for a few months.

The other point i wanted to bring up was the absurd statement that was made alongside his nerf.

Top laners have unearthed Yorick as a dominant pick, in part due to the threat of his Mist Walkers. Players who understand the Mist Walkers' behavior and actively play around it avoid a lot of damage, while players who don't find themselves digging their own graves. We're toning down the damage of Mist Walkers to decrease his low level pubstomp potential.

I do not understand the logic behind this. if you can acknowledge that counterplay exists to the extent that a percentage of the playerbase does not have issues dealing with him, then would it not make more sense to help adjust his kit's functionality so that this counterplay is more obvious to the average player?

While we're at it, what exactly is the behaviour that the reference was even relating to?

l Evan I8/29/2018, 3:10:54 PM18 votes

Any thought about the recent lag in game?

Paz8/29/2018, 5:23:34 PM14 votes

Gnar is sitting in the lowest winrate in toplane solo queue he's only been seen in pro plays as attack speed gnar which does NOT work in solo queue at all. nerfing gnar will cause this champ to DIE in solo queue. the ONLY way to make gnar somehow work in solo queue is by pulling out insane mechanical outplays and some insane 3-5 man ulti every single fight or else the enemy top laner which is most likely either : More tanky with more damage and CC or just has straight out more damage , pushing potential and fighting potential will demolish you and your team.

Wukong Airways8/29/2018, 3:29:08 PM13 votes

@MEDDLER, I've recently read Reav3's comment regarding Wukong and he won't get any updates because the Chinese playerbase like him the way he is. doesn't this contradict with your game design and philosophy regarding outdated champions>

and why wukong out of all champs wont get touched because of popularity in china? almost all champs are getting reworked/updated, but not the monkey, and when will he get a reliable passive if not gonna get reworked?

Daddy Ants8/29/2018, 3:29:34 PM11 votes

Hello Meddler.

I'm a Vayne Main with over 1 million mastery points between both my accounts as well as a Discord Admin and Reddit Moderator for r/VayneMains.

Can I ask what you're looking at with Vayne?

Are you looking at laning phase? Possible revert on Ultimate and AS per level?

Now you've nerfed a lot of things that made her a problem to begin with (Targon's, Fleet Footwork, Statikk Shiv) maybe some reverts on the nerfs?

** Please DO NOT buff Silver Bolts. Vayne's not struggling at killing Tanks and Bruisers.**

ModWulf Helhammer8/29/2018, 3:23:25 PM10 votes

Hey Meddler!

I was wondering if there's been any discussion about caster style marksmen and Essence Reaver? It used to be a core item for most of them (Ashe, Xayah, Sivir), but the new passive as well as the low scaling of the new version puts it out of reach for those champions.

Has there been any thought towards maybe bringing back the "CDR from crit" passive in some form to the game?

Daddy Ants8/29/2018, 7:07:30 PM8 votes

summoner 14 summoner 14 summoner 14 summoner 14 summoner 14 summoner 14 summoner 14 summoner 14 summoner 14 summoner 14

When is this shit finally gonna get nerfed?

Kairoptra8/29/2018, 3:38:16 PM8 votes

Two questions:

  1. Is it still planned for there to be a fourth Sorcery keystone?

  2. You said that you’d like to separate the bonus stars from which trees you choose. Will those stats still be restricted to adaptive AD/AP, HP, and attack speed, or will other options such as resistances be available?

Gnarcotic8/29/2018, 5:28:57 PM8 votes

Hello meddler, aspiring Gnar main here.

I'm not going to try and argue against the nerf since I can see where it's coming from with the increase of his pickrate in competitive and him preventing certain champs from being viable in top due to his kit. I was just curious if you could expand on those gnar nerfs so that us Gnarmains can get a general idea of how much Gnar is getting touched next patch. I understand that Gnar is somewhat of a similar case to ryze where the difference in winrates from soloQ to pro play can be quite high so I would be interested to hear your thoughts on the changes so that we can get a rough idea on how much the changes are going to impact Gnar's strength in soloQ. Cheers!

atlıkarınca8/29/2018, 3:18:37 PM7 votes

I would be happy to see Worlds Lissandra.

QmegaSquadVeigar8/29/2018, 3:23:30 PM7 votes

Any hints about Veigar's future update?

lMilchmannl8/29/2018, 3:37:33 PM7 votes

Hello Meddler,

are there any plans on how to nerf Gnar? He is already not that great in regular play and another nerf will just make him one of the worst if not the worst Toplaner for regular play.(According to winrates)

garen is great8/29/2018, 6:16:09 PM6 votes

MORE Gnar nerfs? I understand he is performing well in pro play, but my god, he has a 46% winrate in Solo Queue...

What is the plan here?

Fízz v28/29/2018, 4:32:03 PM6 votes

Im just here to say that MF stacking Dark Harvest, Duskblade, and Stormrazor to do 1k+ damage with 1 auto attack is stupid and should not be allowed even if she isnt the strongest adc in the game, thanks.

s1rK8/29/2018, 3:13:48 PM6 votes

I want to see Kalista on worlds any chance?

Diablo v28/29/2018, 3:13:13 PM6 votes

ZED BUFFS? :D

Mister Nyuni8/29/2018, 6:22:58 PM6 votes

But gnar has a 46 % winrate already... (ik pros can play him god like. But still)

hpp38/29/2018, 4:07:22 PM5 votes

Is Liandry's still getting looked at?

Vekkna8/29/2018, 3:49:14 PM5 votes

Are the changes to Zyra plant health coming this season?

If not, why not? If yes, what is the current direction of the fix?

[sg-lux-2]

Milvus 8/29/2018, 3:57:32 PM4 votes

Hey Meddler,

If I may wonder, what buffs do you guys plan on giving Vayne and Renekton to make them more appealing in pro play, while also keeping them balanced in regular play? While Vayne can use some love in terms of regular play, Renekton on the other hand can become overbearing even after the slightest buffs.

Kaori8/29/2018, 3:13:42 PM4 votes

Can i ask why yesterday we didn't have any PBE new content?

Gnart Even Close8/29/2018, 6:26:13 PM4 votes

Is there anything you can tell us about the changes to Gnar? Also, is there any update on that work to Gnar that was planned a few months back?

It feels really bad as a Gnar player to see our champion nerfed over and over again for pro play, especially when there haven't been any real attempts at fixing the disparity unlike Ryze, Azir, and Kalista.

Frosttz8/29/2018, 4:24:51 PM4 votes

Hey Meddler do you have plans to revisit balancing some of these champs for solo queue once world's patch is out? I love playing Gnar but it still pains me to see he's getting hit with nerfs again when he's already rather weak in solo queue. Do you have any larger plans for Gnar coming preseason or the future? It's really depressing seeing him join the ranks of ryze and azir?

OmegasisX8/29/2018, 3:17:27 PM3 votes

Hi Meddler,

About 2 months ago, you told me that you "would certainly be interested in adding a bit more skill expression at some point" into Garen's kit (just not as a burst of MS on his Q). Does increasing his passive sustain sound like a form of skill expression you would consider?

Garen's in a decent spot right now (you're even nerfing his Q a little), but his laning phase lacks luster before level 11, and his team presence falls off late game. These enhancements would let him scale into, & stay relevant throughout, all stages of the game. It would look something like this:

Passive - Perseverance: Garen regenerates 2/4/8/12% of his maximum health every 5 seconds (levels 1-5, 6-10, 11-15, 16-18) after not receiving damage for 8/6/4/2 seconds. This regeneration is increased to 4/8/16/24% when he is below 25% (Levels 1-10) / 50% (Levels 11-18) maximum health. Perseverance isn't stopped by minions, & from levels 11-18 is no longer stopped by non-epic monsters (unchanged).

Garen

A More Straightforward Look: Levels 1-5: 2% max HP / 5 sec, increased to 4% below 25% max HP. 8-sec CD Levels 6-10: 4% max HP / 5 sec, increased to 8% below 25% max HP. 6-sec CD Levels 11-15: 8% max HP / 5 sec, increased to 16% below 50% max HP. 4-sec CD Levels 16-18: 12% max HP / 5 sec, increased to 24% below 50% max HP. 2-sec CD

Taimanin Irelia8/29/2018, 3:18:47 PM3 votes

See ,this is what pisses me off about you Meddler:

Nerfs: Trundle - Jungle dominance Gragas - Jungle dominance (though does lead to interesting early play, especially with increasing common Predator builds) Gnar - pushing champs out of top lane Ryze - limiting mid picks

  • Braum - dominant support pick

THESE SAME PICKS HAD BEEN TERRORIZING LAST SEASON'S COMPETITIVE TOO,JUST NERF THE DAMN CHAMPIONS MAN.TO.THE.GROUND.

If you honestly care about viewer experience,stop pushing the 3 tanks and a mage/adc meta.

Jabalor8/29/2018, 3:14:07 PM3 votes

Hi Meddler! Do you have any info on the Urgot ult excecution indicator on the enemy healthbar like Pyke has? It was mentioned in a nexus article a while ago is it still going ot be made? Was it postponed? Any info at all?

Pokemonred2008/29/2018, 3:26:28 PM2 votes

As far as who you'd like to see at worlds, how are champions like Nidalee and Elise in that regard? These champions are two that I do want to see played at worlds, but I haven't seen them in LCS games as often lately. Is there any chance these two get some love in the upcoming patches, or do you think they're in states that will make them considerable picks already?

Junkο8/29/2018, 3:26:57 PM1 votes

Any thoughts on Zoe?