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Quick Gameplay Thoughts: February 8

RiotMeddler··1 votes·163,267 views

Hi folks,

Usual Disclaimers

These posts will often contain talk about future work we're doing, or planning to do, that isn't yet guaranteed to ship. The nature of the work could change or, depending on what we discover, projects mentioned may get delayed or even stopped. If you'd like to see a Tweet whenever a new one of these posts goes up: https://twitter.com/RiotMeddler


Loading Screen

As some of you will have seen by now we've got the first update to the loading screen live in NA at this point. We’re working on a couple of issues that have cropped up, expectation is we’ll be able to turn it on elsewhere as well fairly soon once everything is functioning as intended. We're still aiming to add some additional features to it as well, like a team chat window, in upcoming patches. Those patches will also be a great time to make any other needed changes, so feedback on what's there already much appreciated.


Rek'Sai

We've got a pass on Rek'Sai underway at the moment, hoping to ship some changes in 9.4. Focus is overall on feel more than power, aiming to improve how it feels to play her primarily. The other piece of work we'd like to do on Rek'Sai is some power shifting so she's not a bit weak in average MMR while strong in high. While it's possible some clarity/QoL changes might help out a bit in that regard expectation is that will probably need to be separate work still at some point too.

Biggest changes are:

  • R only being dodgeable if someone teleports a larger distance away (1000 units +, so similar behavior to other targeted dashes).
  • Burrowed Q grants 25 Fury like other spells do

Those are then paired with some smaller adjustments to things like Fury bar color when full, clearer Tremor Sense VFX for champions, auto burrow on respawn.


Conqueror

We've got some Conqueror changes likely for 9.4. Those are part of our ongoing work on hitting problematic damage cases or lack of effective enough defensive options, alongside things like the Ignite/Smite upgrade changes, revised crit items, nerfs to out of line damage heavy champs like Brand/Zyra etc. They're also targeted at addressing some more Conqueror specific problems:

  • Lack of windows playing against Conqueror (it's almost always up)
  • Conqueror negates intended weaknesses on some champion's kits too strongly (bad against tanks primarily)
  • For a rune intended to be chosen for its sustained damage Conqueror's output's often quite bursty.

Direction we're trying as a result:

  • Gives Adaptive stacks on damaging champions with spells or abilities, making damage output backloaded and not something you can prepare with minion combat.
  • Now requires max stacks (5 at present) to trigger true damage conversion and converts 10% instead of 20%, substantially reducing Conqueror's ability to negate defenses by itself while still hopefully serving as a useful safety valve on defense stacking.
  • At max stacks also heals for same amount converted to true damage, moving some of its power to keeping users healthy enough to stay in sustained fights longer, rather than in dealing enough damage to make those fights shorter.

9.3 follow up Thoughts on a few champs post 9.3 now it’s been out a few days

  • Akali - As expected is in a very weak spot. Our plan is still to put power back in once we’ve got a good on the most appropriate ways to do so (don’t want to just reintroduce her as a major problem). Looking into that already, timeline’s uncertain (9.5 more likely than 9.4)
  • Kai’Sa - Seems to be struggling a bit post item changes. Not confident yet how much of that to attribute to items just leaving her in a weak state versus builds having not yet shifted to whatever her new optimal is. She tends to get affected harder than most by changes to items given the breakpoints she needs to hit for her abilities. Open to buffing her if needs be, but don’t want to do so before we’ve seen a bit more play and adaptation to the changed state of things.
  • Yasuo - Looks too strong post crit item changes, also not unexpected. We talked about whether we should bundle nerfs in with 9.3 but concluded we were better off seeing where he landed to understand how much power to take out. Nerfs expected in 9.4.

http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/6.24.1/img/champion/Ziggs.png

439 Comments

mkwstar35 votes

When will you nerf Riven?

Tylosus29 votes

Hey Meddler

How are Akali mains expected to play a 38% winrate champ without changes for over a month? Is it not possible to hotfix the champion for the time being so she can be at least playable?

RiotMeddler28 votes

We don't want to just put power back into Akali without some confidence we're doing so in a healthier way. Realize that sucks for a couple of patches and apologies. Goal is a better long term state so her balance doesn't bounce back and forth constantly.

Ereldra40 votes

Are you looking at how it could get to that point in the first place? I mean you reworked the champion because she was kinda problematic only to end up half a year later after several nerf gutting her because you basically didn't know how to solve her other than making her unplayable.

And it just made everyone unhappy - the old Akali Mains because she got reworked, the new Akali Players because she was permabanned for the most time and is now the weakest champion in the game and the players that hate Akali because it took half a year before she is not considered OP anymore.

I understand why you gutted her, but in my eyes every instance of design and balance failed beforehand that it got to this point

Terozu8 votes

Is there any chance of Yasuo getting removals like Akali?

He is significantly more annoying to play against and has been for a way longer period of time.

haaaaaaalp21 votes

Shouldn't ranged attacks not give full stack for the new conqueror? The only reason the old fervor worked was because ranged attacks stacked it slower than melee. Otherwise, it will be too strong on marksmen.

RiotMeddler8 votes

Possibly we'll need another balance lever to balance out melee and ranged. So far stack duration's been testing pretty well to control that, not opposed to varying number of stacks gained in some way if needed though.

AVINII18 votes

@Meddler • Thoughts on Aatrox in 9.3 • upcoming changes on Aatrox expectable?

RiotMeddler8 votes

We want to take a bit more time to see where Aatrox settles after his recent changes. Unlikely to have changes in 9.4 at least as a result, 9.5's potentially open if something's clearly needed.

World Ender23 votes

He's going to settle at 45% winrate. I seriously don't understand why he can't be changed to fit the bruiser archetype that was intended instead of this pseudo-assassin lethality monster that he became due to pro influence. That is his only issue, let him have better base stats, better base damages, lower his AD scaling to make him less reliant on full AD to be able to do any kind of damage. The E change sort of accomplishes this in a heavy handed way by saying that he'll no longer be able to easily burst carries. So why then haven't his stats been changed to reflect his new role? His base stats are on the level of an assassin, and his lane sustain has been removed. In the past balance members said that champs with lane sustain should have very low base stats to compensate. Well, he has no more sustain from minions, but you didn't think to buff his base stats besides the regen compensation? I'm not sure how many geniuses are at Riot, but really any person with reasonable knowledge about this game should be able to see that this champion is essentially on Ryze or Azir level currently. Same with Akali, and I read your Akali reply below that essentially says you are ok letting the dedicated mains get fucked over for a few patches because you can't sit down and work up a solution. The amount of pro play influence that is forced upon the regular players is unreal and makes for an extremely unhealthy environment. Why is my favorite champion, who has such a low winrate, still being nerfed? Oh right, pro play, because he's 98% pick/ban there. Is it really too much work to just, halt other projects that are less important and sit down and commit to fixing these champions within one patch? Leaving them dead and broken for 2-3 patches brings no esteem to your company.

Rain Blue Flames15 votes

Thoughts on wukong state? i mean thoughts on losing almost all match ups by default? Its depressing MonkeyKing (any balance change on him pre mini rework? ) Downvotes no replys and hate incoming i already know :D @Meddler ?

netfun38 votes

I feel ya and what do mean :(

AtZlawless7 votes

true story mate :(

Blukachu9 votes

Careful. You're not allowed to mention the secret passiveless champ around here.

Infernape14 votes

I personally think that Conqueror does not need the healing on top of also giving stacking adaptive damage and true damage once stacked. This iteration is similar to Fervor (except it's now adaptive and gives more damage). Fervor didn't need healing for its users to deal sustained damage.

RiotMeddler18 votes

We're testing the healing there because we want to offer power in longer fights without pushing more damage into it. Stripping off the healing means we either just leave it weak so you simply shouldn't take it or buff the AD/AP and/or true damage conversion.

happy even after14 votes

Do you have any updates on Karma update? Are works going well, or there are some problems gameplay-wise and direction has been changed (mainly CD reduction on allied abilities and bringing back tether mechanics).

RiotMeddler14 votes

Last I checked with the Champion team they were still waiting on some engineering time for some work on reducing allied CDs. Will see if we've got any ETA on that.

tonytwobits4 votes

Is the current rework set in stone or is there a chance this will be reverted? I am looking forward to trying it out on the PBE but there are a lot of concerns in the Karma main community (including from myself) about the direction of the rework. I can't wait to get my hands on it, but if it is not well-received would the changes be reverted before going live?

Kaynz12 votes

Hey Meddler!

Any info about the junglers? Especially level 6 spike junglers (Evelynn). She could use a +5 base MS owo imo without breaking her.

BitingDino12 votes

Hey Meddler!Evelynn

Any plans for eve? You said she is being monitored for being too weak after the jg changes. Any potential buffs to her? Dont think she needs more damage or lower cooldowns but she is too slow... maybe give her some base MS or while she is in stealth get more speed? Champions who do similar job simply outrun her in high and low elo as far as my experience goes.

PrufessorEyebeam10 votes

I like the more MS while inviz idea wont make her op early but better overall.

RiotMeddler7 votes

We've got a meaningful bugfix or two in 9.4, nothing planned beyond that though, not seeing indications she's struggling at present.

Sinista Blade12 votes

How about taking a similar approach to Yasuo like u did with Akali ? For example remove(/weaken) some defensive features like his passive shield? Doubling crit rate is a strong enough standalone passive. He also has other defensive options : Windwall (W) and hyper-mobility through multiple targets with E and benefitting early on from lifesteal. Alternative nerf : Make it also proc through minion damage (similar to MF W) Another thing that should/could be removed (alternatively) is R automatically placing him outside of turret range when diving. How is the existance of this mechanic justified? On top of that he also gets full passive stacks for the shield. For me this falls under the same catergory as Akalis now-removed under-tower-stealth.

Kazi11 votes

Any news/ideas for Taric ? Skins ? Almost 1000days since he got his last skin , Changes ? Buffs /nerfs ? What do you think of his current state ?

RiotMeddler4 votes

Balance wise I think he's in a reasonable state overall, though pro play especially favors tank supports with more initiation power so wouldn't expect to see him there much unless very strong in other contexts.

Skins wise, sorry, but I'm not involved enough in skin development and planning to comment on who's getting a skin, how they're picked etc.

XeRan0th10 votes

Hi Meddler! Any thoughts on Wit's End? It's only built in some on-hit builds, and even then it's not a priority. Any plans for a buff/adjustment? Also do you intend to rework some of the old/outdated passives like wu/kog/shyvana?

Ęvelynn9 votes

how did evelynn land with the jungle exp changes as a level 6 reliant champion?

BitingDino7 votes

Yee im worried about her... feels like she is just being outrun by other junglers ap or ad.

Kaynz9 votes

Any info on KaynKayn after his passive changes, also the jungle changes? Feel like vs a 4 melee or 4 ranged enemy comp he actually gets his desired form slower (beacuse of the increased orbs 400->500, wich is a ~25% increase in time)

Artemia9 votes

Meddler, do you have any thoughts on Taliyah? Her satisfaction level has remained low since the latest nerfs and the balancing team has yet to make a comment on her current state.

Lil Homie busta8 votes

About Yasuo: a good way to nerf him is to take away his last buffs (Q damage and Base AD). That would put him back where he was before the previous crit item changes I believe.

About Conqueror: It seems that you guys nailed it. This ramping/stacks mechanic is way better than the current one and shoud have been in its place since the beginning. Now some caster bruisers (like Rhaast) will be able to use it better.

RiotMeddler6 votes

Our starting point with Yasuo nerfs will be to look at the buffs he got middle of last year, see whether we should revert or partially revert them. Can't guarantee we'll go down that path yet, but definitely look at that before assessing other options.

Przykot9 votes

Did you consider changing the way his wall works? Fixing hitbox or limiting amount of projectiles it can block? It's the most obnoxious part of his kit and main reason he is banned so often in both low and high elo.

Spideraxe7 votes

Hey Meddler can i ask for your thoughts on how well Irelia landed after recent set of changes

boricCentaur16 votes

Any thoughts on karthus jg?

meteorbreaker6 votes

Hello Meddler!

Will nerfs for LeBlanc ? Given that most of the mage are now in a state of suspense, her snowball becomes too dominant. At least you can not touch her damage. But to reduce her sustain on lane fase (et. basic movement speed and HP regen per level), in particular, she has rather low death rates in games.

And nerfs for Kha and Lee? Given their great popularity and big pickrate, it is already possible to reduce their pace.

ZaneShadow5 votes

Hey Meddler! I had two questions:

  1. It’s been a while since item 2065 Shurelya’s Reverie was introduce. How has it performed? Any core users you’ve seen? (Personally love it, but rarely see anyone else using it, so I was curious).

  2. I’ve noticed a bit more support for niche builds recently, something I’m personally excited about. Is this a goal for Riot or just a case-by-case situation?

czrmtz245 votes

Thoughts on ShenShen ? I hate being his buffs being tied to a specific item item 3068 . Nerf his ult range and make the rest of his kit viable.

016 in EU5 votes

I like how they just skips the important questions lol. Seriously?

risbellfan1234 votes

Hello Meddler! Ivern

Have you ever considered adding the "monster hunter experience" to Ivern's passive or making a special jungle item just for him? Ivern players never finish the jungle item and only buy Hunter's Talisman for the experience. It also feels like such a noob trap for new Ivern players, wasting their money on a completed jungle item when they could be getting their support items earlier.

Thank you for the answer!

Sedirex4 votes

Have you considered just reworking Yasuo to not have the double crit passive? Is the benefit of "he doesn't build like other AD midlaners" really worth the constant balance headaches?

Keeper of Trees4 votes

Hi Meddler, First of all, thanks for always doing these gameplay thoughts. I really appreciate being able to understand what is going on behind the scenes and what is coming. As someone who plays a lot of Rek'sai and loves her thematic, I'm really happy that you guys are looking at doing some QOL buffs. If you are looking for a few more areas to touch up, I have three places she really feels bad, although these would be bigger buffs than the ones on the PBE right now.

  1. Rek'sai's passive is really terrible, and while it feels barely necessary for early clears, late game it's completely useless since it doesn't scale on a champ that usually stacks health items. Maybe implementing a health or ad scaling would help with this?

  2. It kind of sucks as Rek'sai to have to unburrow and then reburrow to be able to use any healing from your fury bar. I think this will be especially apparent with the new changes causing Q to give fury while burrowed.

  3. I know this is the most contentious one, so I saved it for last, but Rek'sai's tremor sense is really unreliable, and this issue is only made more apparent with high latency. As someone who very recently struggled with maintaining a consistent connection, her Tremor sense became less of a tracking tool and more of a hidden notification that someone was near me that could also bait me into dying. At one point I dove into three people because they stood on top of each other at the exact moment my tremor sense went off and it didn't update again to show me them once they split up immediately.

If any of these changes could be implemented, I really think that Rek'sai will feel a lot better to play. Thanks for your time.

Predatorator4 votes

Thoughts on Skarner ?

Axel S3593 votes

“Whose idea was it to make a rock bug with a face?”

Principe Jujuba3 votes

Rek'Sai needs the sense of fear caused by Warwick. The feeling of being watched and pursued. Like the worms in the movie "Tremors".

Singedocracy3 votes

Dot should proc conqueror. This is unfair for dot users, they haven't had a rune since deathfire touch. If ad bruisers need resources to deal with tanks why is that different for ap bruisers. Aery is half a rune because most dot users cant use the shielding effect. Also wont the conqueror change screw over ap bruisers or dot dmg dealers top lane since they are hard countered by healing over time.

PopcornBunni3 votes

As long as the goal is to get RekSai feeling better to play, how about giving her a passive instead of her current one that just explains how her W works?

Anything would be welcome. Bonus AD at max fury, extra fury generation vs champions, anything would do. Fury itself isn't a passive, otherwise there would be no need for Tryndamere's crit or Renekton's bonus generation at low health.

Gh0stlol3 votes

Hello Meddler and Riot, i was wondering if something is to be done soon about trundle. As a trundle main (you can check) im feeling simply left out. Since world's time period (where he got repeating nerfs for being a world's pick) he is a useless lump of low stats. His e is close to uselss (nerfed), his 1v1 ability is super low, which is supposed to be his strenght, to the point in which an amumu wins him 1v1 early. Current win rates by champion gg: 44.93% top, and his main role atm, jungle, has a 46.49% win rate, only 3 champs have lower win % and their main role isnt jungle (at least anymore): diana, camille and sylas, so hes the lowest real jungler atm. The thing is, trundle has no real opponnent flame-triggering gameplay, like akali's turret diving ability with shroud, or zyra's abnoxious plant damage, which both have been understandably banned to my opionion, so the question i cant find an answer to is- why keep him low? and not just low, because naturally some champs will be low, but- the lowest in his realm. This needs to be adressed to. Thank you in advance. Gh0stlol, sadly, a former Trundle jungle main.

Hedi Sama3 votes

Dear Meddler, in the same spirit of VI/Rek'Sai changes I wanted to know if there is some quality of life changes planned on Warwick ? Since his rework a lot of bugs has been reported by WW mains (check reddit or youtube). As a former Warwick main I won't say that he had bugs but I would say that playing this champ doesn't feel enjoyable anymore with the indirect nerfs,he's now clunky as hell ! In my opinion his 2 big issues right now are the ways his W and R work. The W is filled with bugs specially because it's supposed to work out of combat : It happened that Warwick suddenly stopped running just because there were minions in the surroundings without even an ennemy champion, or a W passive that doesn't even trigger even if I could see a low HP (less than 50%) target on the map forcing me to use the long CD active.Also, His R needs in my opinion a more generous hitbox. This ultimate alone used to put me in a lot of bad situations (range suddenly changing when casting ult etc) finding myself jumping through my target and in the middle of ennemy team. Aside from these gameplay changes/fixes that would make playing this champ more enjoyable I could also suggest some small buffs that could help him without making him overpowered : 1 - Small base MS increase (The 5ms you took from Irelia ,just give them to warwick) 2 - Small base attack speed buff : his first clear even if it's somewhat healthy thank to his Q and passive it's still very slow. 3 - HP growth buff : This is meant to fix the issue of Warwick players forcing to build cinderhulk/titanic then tank items on a champion that has a kit built on dealing damage (specially on hit damage) making bloodrazor (or even Warrior) based builds (that synergyze better with his kit) less viable options. 4 - Reduce Q's mana cost. Of course, he doesn't need all these changes but one or 2 of these should make him feel better (after bugfixses and QOL changes of course). I hope this won't get downvoted by people saying "Oh Warwick is a noob champ with a good winrate"...(In my opinion, the fact that he's not played that much and have a bad winrate in a competitive region like Korea is enough proof that he's not that strong even with his "decent" 52% winrate on champion.gg). Thank you for reading that long comment :) Cordially, Hedi Sama. EDIT : Nerfs to Yasuo are welcome (focus more on nerfing his defenses than his damage). Hope I see some nerfs to Riven as well.

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