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Early Game Changes Update

RiotMeddler·7/25/2016, 8:34:47 PM·1 votes·59,743 views

Hi folks,

Quick update on the early game changes we talked about last week (link below for anyone unfamiliar with them).

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/B2y4p4vE-pre-worlds-early-game-update

Over the last few days we've been gathering feedback from a number of pro players, coaches and analysts from multiple regions. One of the big reoccurring comments was that the collateral damage from the cannon minion change was much higher than we were accounting for. General feeling was that while it would make it more costly to lane swap (desired), it would also disrupt a lot of other play, strategic movement especially, later on in the game in the 5 to 20 minute period (undesired). Based off that concern, some follow up playtesting and some strong arguments that the other changes would already add significant cost to lane swapping, we've decided to remove the cannon minion change. We believe that we need to make changes to encourage more early game interaction, the cannon minion change looks like a case of too high a price for that though, at least at this time of year.

Some good questions were also raised about the tower AI changes currently scheduled for a later patch. We haven't got those into playtesting yet, but will be investigating those issues as soon as we can, particularly around their effects on early risk taking. It's possible we might end up delaying some of those AI changes to Pre-Season. We believe they'll be good for the game once tuned appropriately, might or might not be the right time for them though. We'll assess whether or not they make sense once we've seen what the impact of 6.15 is like and once we've been able to get some feedback on them direct in game, PBE included.

We also particularly want to get feedback from a number of pro teams that we haven't spoken with, especially given there are some regions we haven't yet been able to get more organized feedback from. While we aren't planning any other major systemic changes before pre-season we will tweak existing numbers if appropriate in patches 6.16-6.18 (thinks like Fortification duration, amount of gold for first tower kill etc). Ongoing feedback's going to be especially valuable there.

TLDR: No cannon minion changes Might delay some of the tower AI changes

73 Comments

Deep Terror Nami7/25/2016, 8:38:41 PM23 votes

While you guys are looking at tower AI and with the precedence of the tower spells from the new RGM Nexus Siege, I encourage you to look at new opportunities for Ohmwrecker :3

The Yetii Rider7/25/2016, 10:50:22 PM10 votes

Ugh, really?

Look, the cannon change, sure. That's more about the pros being able to macro and it's not that relevant to watch and if they think it's going to hurt more than help then that's fine. But the turret AI change?

Meddler, I hate Elise in the LCS because of how ridiculously unfair she is at early game diving and simply pressing a button to escape from it. That's not skillful, it's not a play that's going to make me say "Whoa! Svenskeren just won his team the game with that early aggression". It's a play that will make me say "Ugh. Sure, let's just give this jungler a bonus Flash that lets her get out of turret range while also canceling any turret shot currently coming at her, and no one else has this...this is fair. There was counterplay to this. Elise just needs to occupy a ban slot at all times if they don't want to deal with this."

It's obnoxious. Early game dives should still work, but the trade off for diving someone who is full health should be "Okay, we gave up a kill, but we got more assists because we were grouped up, so we still came out ahead". Not, "Oh, well he's full health, so we just send in Elise first and she presses a button and we're good."

Sailor Mint7/25/2016, 9:12:12 PM6 votes

Does this mean cannon minion changes are not making it live tomorrow?

They are still listed in the official 6.15 patch notes.

Mag1c7/25/2016, 9:23:51 PM6 votes

Kudos, Meddler. Really glad you and the team are listening and compromising.

EROTIC RAID BOSS7/25/2016, 11:35:35 PM4 votes

Just because I'm curious I'd like to hear specifically what makes the cannon change disruptive

SlashStriker7/25/2016, 8:36:20 PM4 votes

do you have any interest in giving the minions special abilities?

CrazFight 7/25/2016, 10:32:50 PM3 votes

Meddler are you afraid the turrent changes could lead to a large snowball meta, which I don't think many people enjoy.

hopeful47/25/2016, 9:43:58 PM2 votes

Its great that you are finally talking with people from the pro scene.

And a question, did you ask about what they think that should be done to further promote more "action"? Ive seen some of them saying that if global movement would be accessible to everyone (with TP becoming trinket or a consumable), that would lead to more deadly fights. What is your opinion on that?

Paladin Toast7/26/2016, 12:49:04 AM2 votes

It's a bit upsetting that it seems like you are making adjustments to the game solely based on pro play, which makes up maybe around 1% of the player base. The changes to Azir who has terrible win rates across the board, other then in pro play. The failure to fix Kalista and instead nerf her to the point of uselessness in any elo below diamond. I'm glad you went back on these changes at least.

Sami Laagueb8/19/2016, 10:21:31 PM1 votes

hey so what about suggesting names when searching for other players profile or to add them as a friend it would be very nice and make it easier :)[zombie-nunu-hearts]

Venedictos7/25/2016, 9:55:12 PM1 votes

I still do believe the extra call for help for the turret AI should be added. This is a mechanic that should have a existed a long time ago. The way turrets fuction right now it's very counter-intuitive. I'm sitting right next to my turret, an enemy right under it is attacking me, but my turret isn't protecting me because I'm just a few steps outside it's range. How does that even make sense...

Grrv7/26/2016, 12:17:08 AM1 votes

What in particular was it about the cannon minion change that would affect pro play? Were pros rotating their primary carries lane to lane just to pick up cannon minions?

Shadowsliver7/26/2016, 1:41:03 AM1 votes

Will the first blood tower change still make it?

One of the things I find absolutely stupid atm on tournaments is how a lot of game start with 3 man top pushing a tower, nobody cares and 3 men bot pushing a tower and no one cares, like it's some tradition, they're not even trying to defend it.

Call me old fashioned but I feel like every tower should matter, especially in the first 5 minutes of the game.

Silver Singed7/26/2016, 3:33:39 PM1 votes

I could not be more delighted to hear this news. The 3rd wave canon is critical for resetting the wave after an early game proxy on singed. You leave the Canon alive and let it execute you, and it pushes the lane back out to somewhere you can access it.

Leyin7/26/2016, 5:06:11 PM1 votes

Do you planned to add a ping type that shows your allies that a special enemy is miss? Maybe you can use the questionmarks in the TAB-menu to ping on them to show: Enemy XY is missing or so

Hyrum Graff7/27/2016, 3:15:58 PM1 votes

While you're looking at towers, can you also take a look at their power?

Specifically, it feels too easy to tower dive without minions at the 12-13 minute mark. Particularly mobile champions, and of those particularly champions who can dodge the 4th (fully charged) tower shot.

When diving with minions around, you can position nearby your victim in safety, only taking aggro when you actually start killing them. But when Fizz or Yi Q's to you, (or Noc or Vi ult, etc) they essentially bypass the danger of approaching, making the risk level the same as if there were minions nearby.

That's fine for post-20 minutes, maybe even post-15. But at 12 or 13 min I'm still solidly in laning and relying on my turret to be a strong defense if there's no minions nearby (if there's minions, then I'm defending the tower, not the other way around, so it's OK for me to be vulnerable).

AnimusvsAnima8/4/2016, 5:12:24 PM1 votes

Would it ever be possible to change turret shots to function like a tether? Elise, Vlad and Fizz can't break those with their dodge abilities and it would take a lot of frustration out of their kits and opportunity cost for them diving under a tower for a kill.

13krish138/19/2016, 2:48:28 AM1 votes

while you looking let try i now you a great developers. i feel its so great to play