Quick Gameplay Thoughts: June 30

RiotMeddler·6/30/2017, 3:23:15 PM·1 votes·40,747 views

Morning all,

Lighter post today, lot of work on long term stuff not ready to be talked about going on right now.


Usual Disclaimers

These posts will often contain talk about future work we're doing, or planning to do, that isn't yet guaranteed to ship. The nature of the work could change or, depending on what we discover, projects mentioned may get put delayed or even stopped. If you'd like to see a Tweet whenever a new one of these posts goes up: https://twitter.com/RiotMeddler


Diana

As you'll see on the PBE today we're continuing to explore Diana changes in testing. Those aren't intended to be a full fix for Diana's issues (we still expect to do a small update to her gameplay at some point), but are instead intended to put her in a better spot until then. We think it's likely the eventual direction for Diana includes auto attacking as a meaningful part of her kit, so one of the things we're looking it is ways to make that higher impact later in the game.


Garen

Speaking of champions we're doing smaller stuff on now and plan on giving larger gameplay changes later, Garen's in the same boat this patch. We're testing a W change where it's got a short window where it's much more effective when first cast. Goals there are to both give him a bit more power but also a bit more skill expression, with the timing on that cast mattering more. Garen's always been difficult to balance for different skill ranges and part of that's because his kit doesn't give the same degree of reward for mastery over many of its elements that other champs do. This won't fix that by itself of course, but expectation is it'll help somewhat and we'll look for similar changes for the larger changes coming later.


Warded Ping

Is still coming, looks like 7.15 at this point (another casualty of that shorter than usual 7.14 development cycle, with other engineering work that's higher priority pushing it back a patch).


No Posts Next Week

Due a combination of 4th of July having us out of the office and some other stuff going on I won't be able to do these posts next week. Next one should be on the 10th or 11th of July as a result. One thing worth watching out for next week though's that we should be getting a more regular series of Runes posts going, starting next week, with a goal of showing off at least a new thing or two each week until close to pre-season when the full system hits the PBE.


Kayn/Darkin

Non gameplay sidenote, but wanted to call out that a bunch of us, myself very much included, have very much enjoyed the ongoing discussion about what the deal is with the Darkin based off the new info associated with Kayn's reveal, including speculation on future possibilities, whether any other Darkin are already in the roster besides Aatrox etc. Some theories that are pretty out there, or speculative, and some ideas that are pretty accurate. Makes for fun reading.

189 Comments

Fondling Gems6/30/2017, 3:43:01 PM15 votes

Out of curiosity what is the thought process on the Taric changes? At a glance pretty much the whole Taric main discord agrees that it hurts his skill expression in terms of comboing ability and comes with some pretty major buffs tacked on to cap it off.

For a champion that hasn't really been struggling it seems a bit extreme and the buffs don't seem to make a whole lot of sense together. His stun got a damage buff all game, scales CD wise better as it levels, but no longer has a longer stun as it levels up. So it got an overall power buff as well as buffs and nerfs to both it's early and late game.

His heal will almost certainly feel nicer to use but there is no longer any game knowledge required to make use of his passive, since if you get even you have to use multiple abilities in a row without using your passive you still get at least 2 charges to bring your Q off CD since it takes 1 second to aa twice anyways so you can just keep proccing your passive so long as you have mana. As opposed to before where you got maybe 70% efficiency if you were missing out on your passive and not combing properly you now still function at around 90-95% efficiency even if you aren't making use of your passive correctly with the only punishment being more mana expenditure because you have to cast Q more often to get your other abilities up, and even then you are still getting a heal out of it.

The changes just seem a bit out of place and questionable on a champ that doesn't seem to need huge changes.

Quepha6/30/2017, 3:39:31 PM9 votes

Statikk Shiv nerfs look brutal for A LOT of champions, context?

CrabPeopleReform6/30/2017, 4:05:16 PM8 votes

item 3812 Draven opinion ty

riste6/30/2017, 4:29:11 PM7 votes

Hi Meddler, ristiuMMask here. I streamed Garen's PBE changes yesterday with my audience, and boy oh boy, I was excited about this change.

This is exactly what Garen needs. With the first PBE shipment turning Garen's W into just more damage reduction but a shorter cooldown, I was feeling a bit empty about it. But giving this super small window of shrugging off CC with a load of tenacity, on top of a massive amount of damage reduction feels amazing. This will totally raise the skill ceiling for Garen, and playing him actively in Diamond, there is little outplay potential the Demacian soldier has for some lanes. I facetanked an Ashe ultimate yesterday on Stream, but with proper timing, I walked it off in less than a second. It felt really amazing.

The passive changes I also like. There are many games where I simply don't reach level 16. Having a stronger level 11 passive is so much more impacting than having the current live rendition where I'm just passively having a health potion run out of combat. The spin buffs were the icing on the cake, small, but very appreciated. I hope that the buffs to spin will actually help us fight tanks, as Garen has been struggling with that for a while.

I'm making a video right now about why these changes are good. As a Garen enthusiast, I fully support these changes and many other Garen players in our "Garen Players NA" club really look forward to these changes as well.

Càne6/30/2017, 3:44:43 PM5 votes

I'd like to know your thoughts on Sivir and Quinn. Both seem to be quiet underwhelming and are outperformed by a lot of other champions. Also do you have any information on kalista's rework?

SecondComing6/30/2017, 5:34:22 PM5 votes

Hello good sir @Meddler

Very happy that I finally read about Garen, I was asking many times (and got no answer :( ). Really grateful that, while you acknowledge that he needs larger gameplay changes and the window to show skill on the champ is very small or not even there, you give him some love in the meantime cause he is really struggling.

Glad to see tenacity back on Courage, nice thought, the removal of it was one of the (many) things that hurt him, he needs to be able to absorb CC (instead of just punishment) for his team or himself if he gets gangbanged by 3+ opponents. The slow resist + tenacity mastery doesn't give much and it's a common denominator. Since you're experimenting with Courage, I'd like to ask, what's the thought process behind the resistances he gets from the passive part having a cap? Sion has no cap, Nasus has no cap, Veigar has no cap, Bard has no cap etc Why Garen only must have a cap? I don't think it's that OP and game-breaking, especially since it comes in small (and lame) doses of 0,25 per creep kill and I think it would help him a lot, especially in games that drag and he has completed his build.

Excited to see what else you have in store for him. Imho, E and R can remain as is or mostly as is (maybe give the ult AD scaling at long last? Or reduced cd if he successfully executes the Villain?) while passive, Q and W (which seems to be getting at a good spot) can be looked at since they leave much room for work. For example, with Warmog's, everyone can get a free Garen passive at maximum efficiency right off the bat (the requirement is easier now). Hopefully, he'll be able to compete with others with "overloaded" kits (he's only viable top, maybe jungle too but not that good, and others could easily bully him out of lane or just straight kill, like release Camille was a nightmare to face and she could be played literally EVERYWHERE).

Enjoy the 4th of July vacation :)

Yordle Xayah6/30/2017, 4:47:34 PM5 votes

Tristana

Blue Moon Wolf6/30/2017, 4:29:49 PM4 votes

Any word on MonkeyKing now that the Diver update is canned and weather he will be getting an update or not?

iahim986/30/2017, 4:29:03 PM4 votes
jadelink7/1/2017, 3:42:37 PM3 votes

I like the look of the changes to the Thornmail build path on the pbe. Giving defence against the great mass of bork/ravenous rushing skirmishers top seems essential to toplane balance.

But has any thought been given to the way this will make champions like Yi even harder to handle lategame? Currently a thornmail tank can distract him long enough that an adc can whittle him down. Now, with deaths dance + bork he is going to slice the tank into little bits, whilst taking an adcs damage with deaths dance and his lifesteal, and then kill the adc.

Apex Nightraven6/30/2017, 3:37:33 PM3 votes

Two Questions:

Any details on the Yasuo update/direction to share? Or is it still too early in development to share anything?

How has Kayn been faring in terms of PBE? Really interested to know how everyone feels on the general balance on Rhaast and Shadow Assassin. From personal experience, I find them both to be good and fun in their specific circumstances, but I'd like to know what Riot thinks of him so far!

Scopé6/30/2017, 3:53:24 PM3 votes

Hi Meddler! Any thoughts on Kindred? How is she doing after the buffs?

Lebłanc Bot6/30/2017, 4:05:29 PM3 votes

Any update on Leblanc ? I know you made a board about directions with azir do you think you will do the same for Leblanc ?

Big Lincoln6/30/2017, 6:47:09 PM3 votes

Hey Meddler,

Is Cho'Gath still getting his E update this PBE cycle? Or is he being pushed back to iron it out more?

GrandpaTheGreat6/30/2017, 8:26:01 PM3 votes

Is Singed's passive on the pbe intended to work with allied champions?

LiteUpSketchers6/30/2017, 10:32:48 PM3 votes

Cho'Gath?

xReverie6/30/2017, 11:34:22 PM3 votes

Diana I'm really looking forward to the Diana buffs. They look awesome!

https://twitter.com/ricklessabandon/status/880923449258000384

Cátarina6/30/2017, 3:38:47 PM2 votes

Hey Meddler, any updates on Syndra? Do you think her W nerf put her in a reasonable place?

You said something about how you were discussing her R internally before, but nothing was said after that. Just a little concerned since I play her a bit myself.

La Bello6/30/2017, 6:45:33 PM2 votes

As a Garen player I think you guys are hitting the wrong spots. Garens problem is not his survivability its his kiteability and his completely transparent playstyle that requires that he either outstat you completely or him to be a bushmonster. you can buff and adjust Garen all you wont but until this is addressed he still wont see play at meaningful ranks( same as Chogath ).I recommend messing around with his Villain passive and maybe trading some damage for more utility.

Some bonus movespeed moving towards villains and some sort of buff(personal or teamwide) on successful Judgment executions would be a good start .

Otherwise the only other way Garen will begin to see play would be if item 3800 had its mana removed for something else that became really efficient on the big G.

Wet Dryman6/30/2017, 3:28:18 PM2 votes

Hello Meddler, What do you think about current state of Gragas? You think that he is OK, maybe you guys have him on radar or are planning something for him? I'm asking because he seems like a toptier pick in LCS once again and his pickrate in Solo Q especially in higher elo is high currently.

420 grams6/30/2017, 3:35:14 PM1 votes

A lot of the pro games I've seen with rek sai have them building cinderhulk and titanic into tank. Have you thought about switching the q ratio from bonus ad to total ad to make this build feel right?