Actually 80-0 under tower at level 2 in 3 seconds; or "Why are people allowed to lie on the boards?"

The Ecdysiast·Aug 14, 2018·2 votes·2,100 views

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/AmyYtI1R-100-to-0-under-tower-at-lvl-1-in-2-second

This kind of thread really needs to be shut down. Unpopular opinions are fine, but blatant lies do not lend to discussion. If a report should need to be filed first, then "incorrect board" fits well, since

#there is no board topic for "Lies and Misinformation"

"Exaggerating" the truth (also known as lying) makes valid discussion impossible. Note that there's a huge difference between exaggerated claims and exaggerated numbers. You're fine to say, "Yasuo is the worst champion ever designed", and that's fine because it's an opinion. Conversely, you aren't fine to say, "Yasuo currently has a 70% win rate in LCS." Exaggerating a number simply makes it false.

As you can see for yourself in the clip shown by the other thread, all three numbers in the title have been falsely increased.

21 Comments

JaspersAug 14, 20186 votes

That video was slowed down, so 8 seconds is 2. Exaggeration is part of thread and statement making. You can't stop that. "Yasuo is the most broken champ." No he's not, he's stupid and annoying but broken? Doesn't Morde hold that due to his bugs?

It helps get your point across and be noticed. Was his point wrong? Was getting killed at 80% HP under tower by a level 2 Talon who took 2 tower shots and missed the second part of his W and didn't proc his passive okay? No, it really isn't.

The EcdysiastAug 14, 20181 votes

{quoted}

That video was slowed down, so 8 seconds is 2. Exaggeration is part of thread and statement making. You can't stop that. "Yasuo is the most broken champ." No he's not, he's stupid and annoying but broken? Doesn't Morde hold that due to his bugs?

It helps get your point across and be noticed. What his point wrong? Was getting killed at 80% HP under tower by a level 2 Talon who took 2 tower shots and missed the second part of his W and didn't proc his passive okay? No, it really isn't.

Already fixed the title before you commented, so I'm not sure where you got that (and it's actually 3, not 2),

and while it's perfectly reasonable to exaggerate opinionated statements, exaggerating numbers is inherently wrong. Saying "Yasuo is the most broken champion" is entirely different from saying, "Yasuo has a 70% winrate in the LCS."

Talon did 3 auto attacks and his close-range Q. Pretty much any other champion in the game with two abilities to use would have been able to kill Ryze in that scenario. This isn't an issue with Talon.

He outright lies in claiming it was 100-0, 2 seconds, and level 1. And it's a false conclusion to blame this on Talon being too strong when any other mid laner with ignite and electrocute would've been able to do the same.

JaspersAug 14, 20182 votes

Edits happens. :)

And fair points, but taking out Talon from the equation. Is it okay for ANY enemy to dive you at level 1 when they are 2, take 2 tower shots, miss 2 of their damaging part of their kit and walk away?

The 'exaggeration' of his title is pointless because of the point trying to be made, the title is just to get people to click on the the thread. You think people are going to come into a thread titled "I died to Talon, he was level 2."? No, everyone will go... "yeah, and?"

Pika FoxAug 14, 20181 votes

Yes, it is fine. Ryze fucked up hardcore, and towers shouldnt 1-2 shot champs. Towers kill non tank builds in 3. If he took 2, then ryze is solely responsible for not getting the kill.

The EcdysiastAug 14, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Edits happens. :)

And fair points, but taking out Talon from the equation. Is it okay for ANY enemy to dive you at level 1 when they are 2, take 2 tower shots, miss 2 of their damaging part of their kit and walk away?

The 'exaggeration' of his title is pointless because of the point trying to be made, the title is just to get people to click on the the thread. You think people are going to come into a thread titled "I died to Talon, he was level 2."? No, everyone will go... "yeah, and?"

Exaggerating numbers is simply lying. He could make the exaggeration that Talon is overpowered, but lying about the numbers is simply wrong and shouldn't be allowed. It's one of the reasons Riot can't take the boards seriously-- there are people blatantly lying and they can't make balance changes based on community focused around lies.

Even then, your point is another factor in why the original thread was facetious. The clip highlights why Electrocute and Ignite provide too much damage level 2, not Talon himself.

HommeGoujonAug 14, 20181 votes

Talon's passive didnt proc and ryze was dead even without a third aa

The EcdysiastAug 14, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Talon's passive didnt proc and ryze was dead even without a third aa

Yes. Because of IGNITE AND ELECTROCUTE. The fact Talon didn't get his passive off is a testament to how overpowered those two things are together, not Talon.

HommeGoujonAug 14, 20181 votes

Isn't that what the OP was saying in his post? Good thing for us they're nerfing elec and other burst dmg runes.

ModThe DjinnAug 14, 20186 votes

So I get the argument here, but I also have to be realistic -- I can't ask the rest of the moderation team to verify every claim that is made on the boards. We have neither the time nor the personpower. We are happy to address malicious misinformation that is given with the intent to cause inconvenience or harm to others, but it's honestly not reasonable for us to crack down heavily on exaggeration or harmless misinformation.

The EcdysiastAug 14, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=atwwdohz,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-08-14T17:08:21.997+0000)

So I get the argument here, but I also have to be realistic -- I can't ask the rest of the moderation team to verify every claim that is made on the boards. We have neither the time nor the personpower. We are happy to address malicious misinformation that is given with the intent to cause inconvenience or harm to others, but it's honestly not reasonable for us to crack down heavily on exaggeration or harmless misinformation.

Which is exactly why I said that an Incorrect Board report should be applied and the thread removed if found, because there is no board for blatant lies.

ModThe DjinnAug 14, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Uber Deer,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=atwwdohz,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2018-08-14T19:17:24.628+0000)Which is exactly why I said that an Incorrect Board report should be applied and the thread removed if found, because there is no board for blatant lies.

That would still require that we act as arbiters of truth, and have an extra responsibility to research claims players make for truthfulness. We don't have the time or personpower to do that.

The EcdysiastAug 14, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=atwwdohz,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2018-08-14T19:19:50.383+0000)

That would still require that we act as arbiters of truth, and have an extra responsibility to research claims players make for truthfulness. We don't have the time or personpower to do that.

This is an odd point to make with an example where the only "research" would be clicking the original post's clip.

Even then, it's not difficult to go to the wiki for most things.

ModThe DjinnAug 14, 20185 votes

[{quoted}](name=Uber Deer,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=atwwdohz,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-14T19:21:46.301+0000)This is an odd point to make with an example where the only "research" would be clicking the original post's clip.

Even then, it's not difficult to go to the wiki for most things.

The moderation team is a team of volunteers. We all have jobs, lives, families, classes, significant others, social obligations, hobbies, etc. When a suggestion adds additional time to moderation, we have to consider the additional workload that it would create. If "exaggerating too much" becomes a punishment, the reported thread number will increase, and each of those will require the moderator to personally research and confirm, and also increase the number of questions we get from people who may have pulled other data from other places, or interpreted it differently. Even an extra 30 seconds here and there adds up.

I'm sorry, but that is not something I can reasonably ask of the team. We have removed -- and will continue to remove -- malicious misinformation, but I am not prepared to tell the team that they have to become the lie police for the entire board.

The EcdysiastAug 14, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=atwwdohz,comment-id=00020000000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-14T19:28:15.746+0000)

The moderation team is a team of volunteers. We all have jobs, lives, families, classes, significant others, social obligations, hobbies, etc. When a suggestion adds additional time to moderation, we have to consider the additional workload that it would create. If "exaggerating too much" becomes a punishment, the reported thread number will increase, and each of those will require the moderator to personally research and confirm, and also increase the number of questions we get from people who may have pulled other data from other places, or interpreted it differently. Even an extra 30 seconds here and there adds up.

I'm sorry, but that is not something I can reasonably ask of the team. We have removed -- and will continue to remove -- malicious misinformation, but I am not prepared to tell the team that they have to become the lie police for the entire board.

Maybe don't volunteer for things you don't have the time for...?

ModThe DjinnAug 14, 20188 votes

[{quoted}](name=Uber Deer,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=atwwdohz,comment-id=000200000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-14T19:43:23.130+0000)Maybe don't volunteer for things you don't have the time for...?

We all have time to be volunteer moderators. We do not have time to become the fact police for the entire board. I'm sorry, but that's the reality of the situation.

DearPearAug 14, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Uber Deer,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=atwwdohz,comment-id=000200000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-14T19:43:23.130+0000)

Maybe don't volunteer for things you don't have the time for...?

What makes you think it's their primary volunteer's job to mod the boards?

ChermorgAug 14, 20184 votes

From moderating other communities as well as attempting to find the “truth” while helping on the Player Behavior boards, I think you are vastly underestimating the amount of time involved in finding the “truth” beyond a reasonable doubt. We can’t just delete a thread because we look at it and we don’t think it’s true. We would have to find some legitimate, concrete, and undeniable proof that the person was lying to take action. Further, there is inherently discretion between what constitutes hyperbole which is a legitimate argumentative tool and deliberate misinformation - and everything in between. Hyperbole is always okay. Deliberate misinformation is never okay. Nothing is at those extremes (or very rarely). Things virtually always fall in the middle - making it, at the end of the day, very hard to justify the time and effort to not only take the action but justify it to that player and/or others.

FixHealsRemoveGWAug 26, 20181 votes

If you were realistic you would admit that there is stuff out there that is obviously misleading and dishonest. You would further understand that no misinformation is harmless when it gets 100+ upvotes and inexperienced/new players get affected by that. And we are not just facing misinformation here but also a ton of negative attitude and toxic ideas. I really have to wonder if you even feel any kind of responsibility for this community and where it is going, as an herald:

We focus on behind-the-scenes improvement, community building, and other initiatives, serving to strengthen both the community and the Volunteer team.

Tell me what you are strengtnening! Tell me how you improve this community! I don't see it. You just consistently ignore the biggest problems that this community has.

Warlord RhinarkAug 14, 20183 votes

There isn't that much of a difference between 100-0 and 80-0. I find it stupid to remove the whole thread just because of 20 numbers difference.
He didn't mean the Talon was level 1, he meant that HE was level 1.
Even if it's 2 seconds or it's 3 seconds, that's still a pretty stupid reason to remove the whole thread for.

Did he lie?

Technically, yes.

Is his point any different?

No.

The EcdysiastAug 14, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=atwwdohz,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-08-14T12:33:48.663+0000)

There isn't that much of a difference between 100-0 and 80-0. I find it stupid to remove the whole thread just because of 20 numbers difference.

He didn't mean the Talon was level 1, he meant that HE was level 1.

Even if it's 2 seconds or it's 3 seconds, that's still a pretty stupid reason to remove the whole thread for.

Did he lie?

Technically, yes.

Is his point any different?

No.

Yes, actually, there is a massive difference when you only have 570 total HP. Pretending there isn't at level 1 is ridiculous.
No, it's actually phrased as if Talon is level 1. And if he meant that he himself was level 1, then the information is irrelevant and included to falsely trick people into thinking Talon was 1 anyway.

3, It makes a big difference, because if Ryze had had his W 1 second earlier or if the fight had been one second longer, it would have been a 1 for 1 trade.

Did he lie? Yes. Is the point any different? Yes, actually. Since the thread is spreading lies about Talon's strength in this scenario, when it wasn't something unique to Talon.

FixHealsRemoveGWAug 26, 20181 votes

Realize that the moderation team actually does not see the problems that this community has.

They don't see the negative attitude and how most content that gets created is emotionally affected. They don't perceive it as problem that votes not just downvotes only amplify all the negativity. They don't see any value in keeping balance discussions objective, but at the same time they think that they can make discussions "productive" and "high quality" with the new gameplay+. They are so naive..... it's incredible. They have no intention to stop all the circle jerking with toxic ideas. They are good at coming up with excuses, every time they are getting feedback, but I've never seen a moderator taking actual responsibility for anything aside of technical questions.

Voting system abused and destroying discussion? https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/community-moderation/LjZdYLh6-im-tired-of-votes Mods don't care, they would rather lock the thread where the OP desperately tries to reason with the trolls. Mods didn't even reply on this topic.

Unobjective discussions in gameplay+ with one-sided or lacking analysis? https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/community-moderation/ByB8yWJk-my-thoughts-on-the-new-gameplay-board No problem. "Objectivity was never a goal" so that's ok. Maybe Gameplay+ is just no place for reasonable players that expect honest and unbiased discussions.

Moderation affected by the popularity of an opinion? https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/community-moderation/d1ZpVMQ8-is-moderation-affected-by-the-popularity-of-an-opinion No problem. "we have plans" What plan? Oh gameplay+ that has the exact same flaws.

They also thought it would be appropriate to ban me for 3 days because i went to gameplay+ to point out in one of the threads, that the discussion is extremely one-sided, full of hyperboles and champion stereotypes and actually just a rant instead of a good discussion. It's really sad.