Can we have a separate gameplay board that is rank restricted

Moody P·Mar 26, 2019·6 votes·3,162 views

The quality of posts on Gameplay is almost 100% correlated to the poster's rank.

Its an observable fact that a huge majority of the dumb narratives that propagate here are spread at the hands of Silver or lower perpetrators. Navigating Gameplay is trying to sort through a mountain of 2 sentence spam threads about Yasuo and Zed and nebulous concepts like damage creep. There is no discussion to be had with a strong 80% of any of the posters here. Every high elo player I approach on Discord or in game specifically states that they're tired of dealing with low rank fools who are ironclad in wrong beliefs and are backed up by the loud majority of similarly ranked players who can simply shout down any opposition. I wouldn't be surprised that Rioters avoid the place for the same reason.

Plat-Diamond posters are a mixed bag of good and bad but I have never seen a player who has reached Masters or above post here and make a bad post, but a lot of them are unfortunately slid into obscurity or down voted out of sight because they either disagree with the narrative or the topic covered simply goes over most Boards posters heads. These are the people who make good conversations to have and are the people that I want to be able to directly seek out for an interesting topic to cover.

In this proposed sub board low rank players can view threads and learn from high rank perspectives but they should not be able to vote or comment. It should allow Gold players to post because I think reaching Gold is completely accomplishable for any player who has reasonable motivation. It doesn't disallow the average poster from making their Yasuo threads but it lets me sort to find a post suited to my standards when I feel like having a conversation.

This would not "limit discussion" as the mods often say in response to this; most Boards posters are not here to discuss anything to begin with. I would argue would enable more discussion; a slower board would allow these better posts to have a longer grace period before they're slid into the back pages and give us more time to see and reply to them.

Additionally the simple fact is that low and high elo perspectives are massively different from each other and I think it's only suiting that they be allowed to separate so that topics can be reserved for their intended demographic (other high elo players)

40 Comments

ModThe DjinnMar 26, 201916 votes

Can we have a separate gameplay board that is rank restricted

No. We've talked about this several times. The rationale is not that it limits discussion, but rather than it promotes the idea that there are areas where skill is the only determining factor in who is allowed to have input or share their thoughts. There may well be other rank-filtered communities out there, and players seeking rank-filtered conversations should seek them out. The boards is not going to become that place.

BoltonatorMar 26, 20194 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=INrunej4,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-03-26T17:48:48.087+0000)

No. We've talked about this several times. The rationale is not that it limits discussion, but rather than it promotes the idea that there are areas where skill is the only determining factor in who is allowed to have input or share their thoughts. There may well be other rank-filtered communities out there, and players seeking rank-filtered conversations should seek them out. The boards is not going to become that place.

Thank you for the speedy resolution Djinn Lulu

AirKingNeoMar 26, 20191 votes

The boards should have this type of board. It promotes healthier discussion. It's a fact most players of higher rank have better knowledge than most players of a lower rank.

BoltonatorMar 26, 20194 votes

{quoted}

The boards should have this type of board. It promotes healthier discussion. It's a fact most players of higher rank have better knowledge than most players of a lower rank.

You want to introduce a board that limits who can post in it based on rank? I’ll say it again...how very elitist of you.

AirKingNeoMar 26, 20191 votes

You call Gold+ elitist? Actually, consider that it isn't elitist because it literally requires you to only be in the rank just under half the ranks in the ladder. That's not elitist. If it were elitist, it would be Diamond+.

BoltonatorMar 26, 20195 votes

{quoted}

You call Gold+ elitist? Actually, consider that it isn't elitist because it literally requires you to only be in the rank just under half the ranks in the ladder. That's not elitist. If it were elitist, it would be Diamond+.

“I know what I’m talking about, unlike 80% of the boards” is quite an elitist stance

I had a Draven who had accumulated 3 million Mastery points mock me for not recalling and he was in Gold 2.

AirKingNeoMar 26, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, cause I'm not a moron. I can look at statistics and apply them unlike 80% of the boards.

Misrepresenting an argument is sinful. It is not an elitist stance to say one is better than others because he knows how to use evidence.

It is also sinful to ignore my actual argument in my own comment and jump to a completely unrelated comment. You did not make what I said invalid.

rujitraMar 27, 20192 votes

You sin quite frequently from what I've seen then.

HethaleanMar 26, 20195 votes

Judge an idea by the idea, not the Authority Logical Fallacy of the credentialing of the speaker.

ModThe DjinnMar 26, 20197 votes

{quoted}It's a fact most players of higher rank have better knowledge than most players of a lower rank.

There is a correlation between high rank and game knowledge, yes. That correlation is not consistent enough or spread across enough topics for it to be something that we feel is appropriate to lock discussion behind, especially when it comes to topics like game design.

rujitraMar 26, 20192 votes

Having knowledge does not correlate to better discussion. In fact, some of the players I see consistently making the worst gameplay posts (not going to name names) are Diamond and Master rank (last I checked).

IAmTheLegoMar 26, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=INrunej4,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-03-26T17:48:48.087+0000)

No. We've talked about this several times. The rationale is not that it limits discussion, but rather than it promotes the idea that there are areas where skill is the only determining factor in who is allowed to have input or share their thoughts. There may well be other rank-filtered communities out there, and players seeking rank-filtered conversations should seek them out. The boards is not going to become that place.

Hold on a second, doesn't this sort of idea promote elo shaming or something?!? Hence why it's not used?

ModThe DjinnMar 26, 20195 votes

{quoted}

Hold on a second, doesn't this sort of idea promote elo shaming or something?!? Hence why it's not used?

That is an additional effect, yes, mostly as a side effect of "the idea that there are areas where skill is the only determining factor in who is allowed to have input or share their thoughts."

IAmTheLegoMar 26, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=INrunej4,comment-id=000400020000,timestamp=2019-03-26T18:04:25.346+0000)

That is an additional effect, yes, mostly as a side effect of "the idea that there are areas where skill is the only determining factor in who is allowed to have input or share their thoughts."

Well ain't that low/rude for such an idea, even for me. I've beaten Daimonds and Plats before. That's a middle finger to the "skill is the only determining factor" non-sense.

Hell, maybe rank should be removed completely if that's gonna create that kind of ego (and probably insecurity).

Moody PMar 26, 20192 votes

I never said skill correlates with game knowledge. I said most shitty posts here are from low rank posters and that I want to be able to sort posts by rank more easily

I am more inclined to want to read a Diamond or Masters post than I am to read a Silver post. Even considering that some high elo posters are bad posters too -- hehe -- if I could sort out low rank posters entirely I would consider it a worthwhile trade-off for the occasional insight they can provide to drop the literal ocean of garbage Yasuo complaints out of sight.

ModThe DjinnMar 26, 20194 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=INrunej4,comment-id=00040003,timestamp=2019-03-26T19:36:21.677+0000)I never said skill correlates with game knowledge. I said most shitty posts here are from low rank posters and that I want to be able to sort posts by rank more easily

We will not be adding that feature. I have personally seen a lot of pretty awful posts from across a wide range of skill levels, and a number of very insightful ones from the same. I'm sorry if your experience indicates otherwise.

The EcdysiastMar 26, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=INrunej4,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-03-26T17:48:48.087+0000)

No. We've talked about this several times. The rationale is not that it limits discussion, but rather than it promotes the idea that there are areas where skill is the only determining factor in who is allowed to have input or share their thoughts. There may well be other rank-filtered communities out there, and players seeking rank-filtered conversations should seek them out. The boards is not going to become that place.

Delete this comment if it's considered harassment, but this is a trend we can see in basically all of Moody P's posts. And this is no doubt related to his misunderstanding of the ELO where his preferred class of champions-- juggernauts-- are good. He just keeps begging and begging for juggernaut buffs because he doesn't understand that they underperform in diamond by design.

So now, he's simply asking that such people not be allowed to comment on his threads, because silver/gold players are calling him out on his nonsense whenever he posts it.

It's the old, "I'm being proven wrong so let's silence the people who are doing it," tactic.

Moody PMar 26, 20192 votes

Said Urgot was overtuned not even a week ago and that he needs a nerf, I said that Nasus is probably overstat complained about recent juggernaut buffs and tentative buffs multiple times, I've complained multple times that juggernauts have shit kits being covered with bloated numbers, I've asked for reworks to multiple juggernauts and proposed some myself... Yeah, I only ask for buffs, eh?

Solid sleuth work

The EcdysiastMar 26, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=INrunej4,comment-id=000400040000,timestamp=2019-03-26T19:48:26.186+0000)

Said Urgot was overtuned not even a week ago and that he needs a nerf, I said that Nasus is probably overstat complained about recent juggernaut buffs and tentative buffs multiple times, I've complained multple times that juggernauts have shit kits being covered with bloated numbers, I've asked for reworks to multiple juggernauts and proposed some myself... Yeah, I only ask for buffs, eh?

Solid sleuth work

You don't ask for reworks. You ask for buffs. Sometimes they're mechanical changes, yeah, but never to change the core problems of the champions. Juggernauts by design cannot and should not work against coordinated teams, because their entire concept is the ability to come out on top in fights against multiple enemies. And where that coordination exists, that strength no longer applies.

They need reworks to be made NOT juggernauts any more. But you always ask for changes that are strictly buffs to their current designs, not actual reworks. While still missing the point of the champions.

Salvor HardınMar 26, 20198 votes

Completely disagree, I'm a Diamond on my server and in this I have a level 7 account like yours, and your league implies NOTHING about your knowledge of the game, I know a OTP Illaoi for example, which is in high diamond and his knowledge of the game is null, I have a friend who plays bad but knows a lot of the competitive and plays for 6 years, as the coach of my team is gold but knows a lot of macrogame.

AirKingNeoMar 26, 20191 votes

Small exceptions are not represenative of the whole. That's like saying low elo players have good balance knowledge because I do.

Rock MDMar 26, 20193 votes

[deleted]

AirKingNeoMar 26, 20191 votes

and who are you? and how is he/she? Do I know you people?

But hey, you have heard of me.

Salvor HardınMar 26, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Small exceptions are not represenative of the whole. That's like saying low elo players have good balance knowledge because I do.

Well.... your rank is gold and yet you comment quite a lot about gameplay.

AirKingNeoMar 26, 20191 votes

Yeah, cause I'm not a moron. I can look at statistics and apply them unlike 80% of the boards.

Sona PingMar 26, 20196 votes

{quoted}

Small exceptions are not represenative of the whole. That's like saying low elo players have good balance knowledge because I do.

And which is that? He knows an OTP Illaoi who's Diamond yet doesn't understand the game. "That doesn't count, it's an exception." Diamond youtube jungler doesn't understand how levels work. "That doesn't count, it's an exception." Masters tier player who didn't understand Leblanc's abilities functionality. "That doesn't count, it's an exception."

But why are all counter-examples exceptions? Because they're not supposed to have these deficits in their ability to discuss things because high elo? Because they're supposed to be knowledgeable, accurate, and fair because high elo? We all know that's not true.

And so here we are.

AeroWaffleMar 26, 20197 votes

I mean, you do realize that would prevent you from posting there too right? You're posting on a level 7 account.

Moody PMar 26, 20192 votes

I can always make another

Abibyama IIMar 26, 20192 votes

Moody P II pog

ModKnightsKemplarMar 26, 20196 votes

I'm going to go one step further than The Djinn, actually, and say that I don't think that game knowledge always correlates with skill.

There are many types of skill tests in League. Some players may excel at some of those and be lower ranked because they are failing in other aspects. It is theoretically possible for someone to have Challenger game knowledge, but poor reflexes and coordination, so they are stuck in silver or gold. Those people still have something to contribute to a discussion.

And beyond that, skill at game design and skill at playing the game are not the same thing. There may be people who are excellent designers that suck in the execution required to play at a high level. There are certainly people in the other camp; I'm sure we can all recognize that even in a room full of masters+ players, not everyone will agree on how the game should evolve. Some of those opinions will be bad choices. That necessarily means that there is a game design skill range there, even if there isn't one in skill at playing the game.

The EcdysiastMar 26, 20192 votes

{quoted}

I'm going to go one step further than The Djinn, actually, and say that I don't think that game knowledge always correlates with skill.

There are many types of skill tests in League. Some players may excel at some of those and be lower ranked because they are failing in other aspects. It is theoretically possible for someone to have Challenger game knowledge, but poor reflexes and coordination, so they are stuck in silver or gold. Those people still have something to contribute to a discussion.

And beyond that, skill at game design and skill at playing the game are not the same thing. There may be people who are excellent designers that suck in the execution required to play at a high level. There are certainly people in the other camp; I'm sure we can all recognize that even in a room full of masters+ players, not everyone will agree on how the game should evolve. Some of those opinions will be bad choices. That necessarily means that there is a game design skill range there, even if there isn't one in skill at playing the game.

Hell, there are plenty of Diamond+ streamers who constantly go, "wait what the fuck did [recently changed champion] just do?" So yeah, a good number of them don't even have up to date knowledge of the current game, let alone being able to discuss further changes adequately. And Moddy himself is an example of a different kind of player, the kind that only ever suggests buffs for the champs they like and nerfs for everyone else.

I'm not bullying him here, but if you go to his boards profile you can scroll down and see his constant barrage calling for juggernaut buffs.

ModThe DjinnMar 26, 20193 votes

{quoted}I'm going to go one step further than The Djinn, actually, and say that I don't think that game knowledge always correlates with skill.

I should amend my comment -- certain types of game knowledge (typically with regards to balance or specific in-game interactions) correlates with skill, but it is not necessarily a very strong correlation. In most cases better knowledge of mechanics leads to better implementation of those mechanics, although this is not true in all cases. I did not mean to even accidentally imply that it is true in all cases, or even necessarily a majority -- simply that I think it is true in general that the higher your game knowledge the better you will end up on your personal skill potential, even if that caps out at the point where you stop caring enough (or lack the ability) to implement your knowledge further.

In terms of game design, it is absolutely accurate that game rank and game design knowledge are not correlated.

rujitraMar 27, 20191 votes

Game knowledge definitely correlates with rank, because rank correlates with time played and increased knowledge also does.

It is a weak correlation with exceptions, but it exists.

Around999PeopleMar 26, 20194 votes

I am all for this, if the cut off is masters. I mean, a player in masters/above sees diamond players the same way a diamond player sees a silver. And like you said, masters players make the best posts.

Laughing FishMar 26, 20194 votes

I think only players who have won worlds should be able to make threads, and only those who have at least attended worlds should be able to comment. Everyone else is a pleb

ModThe DjinnMar 26, 20194 votes

[{quoted}](name=Laughing Fish,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=INrunej4,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2019-03-26T20:43:32.390+0000)I think only players who have won worlds should be able to make threads, and only those who have at least attended worlds should be able to comment. Everyone else is a pleb

Sounds reasonable. I'll bring it up. It will require a proof of purchase for the world's ticket though. I'm not compromising on that point.

BoltonatorMar 26, 20193 votes

How very elitist of you, sir.

[sg-lulu]

IAmTheLegoMar 26, 20193 votes

Yeah....high elo does not equal to "i know the game well" that statement is used too often and probably by those who are too egotistic.

Even riot's balance team (and designers) majority are low elo. Hell, even diamonds and higher elo can say stupid things that even an iron 4 would be like "wth is this guy saying?"

I have a better suggestion, a filter option that you use to avoid typical topics. Like select Yasuo and Zed and all threads involving these 2 names will simply not appear (whether mentioned on title or even on post).

I've seen diamonds make dumb threads before and I've seen silver and even bronze make a good constructive thread.