Before you surrender, remember it only takes one Ace or a backdoor to win a "lost" game

Deep Terror Nami·Jun 8, 2015·29 votes·2,870 views

Some disadvantages are insurmountable, sure, but more often than not a game is surrendered when your team's spirit is broken rather than when the game is impossible to win.

Stay positive, and don't give up so easy. A single Ace or a tricky backdoor while you prevent the enemy B can turn the most impossible game into a close win. People get complacent most when they are ahead too, so they usually don't use their full advantage and start making bad calls.

Your LP is worth it, isn't it? A close match is more fun than a landslide victory anyway.

57 Comments

NarasimhaJun 8, 201527 votes

"It's cool guys, we can come back and win this!" "..It's 4-21, they have 4 dragons, are doing Baron, we're pushed to inhibs and we've taken one turret." "WE'VE GOT THIS."

I have no problems with optimism, but staying grounded in reality is a vital point too. As one of my favorite quotes goes "How can you expect to win, when you can't even accept a loss?"

DrCyanideJun 8, 20159 votes

Ezreal blind fires ult. Your team takes Baron.

"We've got this :)"

Kuroi86Jun 8, 20153 votes

Meanwhile you're still clearing your base while they grab their fifth dragon which you can no longer contest for considering your team blew it's only global already. They then proceed to rotate and decimate your team on each lane while you try to push out of your base.

AlexXenoJun 8, 20153 votes

Have actually won under that situation. A good set of pokes from our ADC one champ goes down and suddenly we have an ace, a free minute to push mid and take the nexus. Good game it was.

TheGrandAllianceJun 8, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Ezreal blind fires ult. Your team takes Baron.

"We've got this :)"

Yea that did bail out my last promo into Silver attempt. Blind Ults can indeed make the difference. However again this is likely to only have an effect in a close game... and not in a complete one-sided game either.

LittleBlastJun 8, 20151 votes

I actually just yesterday won a game from that xD

Skyfyre123Jun 9, 20151 votes

{quoted}

"It's cool guys, we can come back and win this!" "..It's 4-21, they have 4 dragons, are doing Baron, we're pushed to inhibs and we've taken one turret." "WE'VE GOT THIS."

I have no problems with optimism, but staying grounded in reality is a vital point too. As one of my favorite quotes goes "How can you expect to win, when you can't even accept a loss?"

Agreed especially if your team refuses to change the way they play let alone just not making decisions as a group to do something. I've turned around games where our nexus was completely exposed almost destroyed, but after we were able to ace them, everyone suddenly started playing together and the enemy team began to do the complete opposite and made bad plays that allowed us to catch up quickly take down towers and push to win the game. Haven't had a close game like that since than, but have had turnarounds just as unexpected however.

HorusEyeJun 8, 201510 votes

My teams logic in every game:

When it's team kills of 10 vs 14:

(lost one teamfight at level 14)

Ally team has agreed to surrender at 4 votes against 1 vote.

Me: wtf.....

When it's team kills of 2 vs 69 at 10 minute mark......:

Surrender vote failed.

Dumbass team: Dont worry guise, we got this. Me: U fkin kidding me m8.....

StellafreyjaJun 10, 20151 votes

{quoted}

My teams logic in every game:

When it's team kills of 10 vs 14:

(lost one teamfight at level 14)

Ally team has agreed to surrender at 4 votes against 1 vote.

Me: wtf.....

When it's team kills of 2 vs 69 at 10 minute mark......:

Surrender vote failed.

Dumbass team: Dont worry guise, we got this. Me: U fkin kidding me m8.....

This happens every freaking time. I have teammates surrendering when we're down only a handful of kills. But when we're at a severe disadvantage, at least one person is like "lol git gud we got this." Like no, we don't. I'd rather surrender at 20 than waste another 20 minutes feeding and losing anyway.

JRobin31Jun 8, 20153 votes

Not only do I never surrender, I want an off toggle on the surrender vote spam.

MyrddinJun 8, 20153 votes

Never give up, never surrender!

Did Japan surrender it World War 2?!?!?!

DrCyanideJun 8, 20152 votes

The difference there is what did Japan have to gain by not surrendering, vs what they had to loose.

You loose 20-30 minutes to gain ~20 LP instead of loose ~20 LP. It's worth the time.

MyrddinJun 8, 20151 votes

{quoted}

The difference there is what did Japan have to gain by not surrendering, vs what they had to loose.

You loose 20-30 minutes to gain ~20 LP instead of loose ~20 LP. It's worth the time.

Joke

head

IS1a442cd69a169ed293a39Jun 8, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Joke

head

Your joke in bold:

MyrddinJun 8, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Your joke in bold:

it indeed was bold, like your hair style

IS1a442cd69a169ed293a39Jun 8, 20151 votes

{quoted}

it indeed was bold, like your hair style

God, your English sucks.

MyrddinJun 9, 20152 votes

{quoted}

God, your English sucks.

No, you're english sucks

TheGrandAllianceJun 8, 20153 votes

Few points of order on the OP's logic:

Not happening if you are a Support Main. Low MMR's don't even understand the concept of "backdoor", nor why BN/Dragon is important even. Typing an essay in chat doesn't help to this regard either
Not happening again if you are a carry champ and the rest of the team fails completely. If you do not play good backdoor champs you can try but you will fail in the end
Not going to happen in low MMR Leagues anyways for reasons of 1.... even if you are far ahead and try to explain the concept you are not going to be able to backdoor. True all you need is good DPS some tanks and for a good backdoor but again try explaining this to a team that doesn't even understand why "facechecking" is a "bad idea"

It is very easy to tell within first 20 min whether your team "has potential" or not. You may be losing but if you observe well there may be a chance. HOwever if your team is like 1/19 or something there is no hope left here. Unskilled players won't become better simply because of time.

There is no shame in knowing when you have been defeated: It is best to simply live on to fight another day that is so...

Deep Terror NamiJun 8, 20153 votes

Being pretty average low elo in Silver, I can say that all of this happens plenty often. Maybe not in the lowest of low in Bronze, but people aren't as stupid as you are accusing them of being.

Even if it happens on accident rather than as a strategy, it still happens.

TheGrandAllianceJun 8, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Valkyrie Witch,realm=NA,application-id=WEuoGbmp,discussion-id=r5BbdGkF,comment-id=00080000,timestamp=2015-06-08T23:11:57.370+0000)

Being pretty average low elo in Silver, I can say that all of this happens plenty often. Maybe not in the lowest of low in Bronze, but people aren't as stupid as you are accusing them of being.

Even if it happens on accident rather than as a strategy, it still happens.

I assure you... Silver is far more retarded then Bronze. They don't even care about BN in NA servers... don't care about taking it or otherwise. They don't understand backdooring. They don't understand vision not unlike bronze. At least when it comes to BN Bronze are fearless and will try everything. SIlver fear failure too much... even if they have full vision and control over BN.

You have to wait until Gold MMR before teh backdoor strategies are possible. ANythign below that is not going to happen end of story: Else it wouldn't have taken 4 attempts to get promoted into Silver otherwise for myself.

Deep Terror NamiJun 8, 20151 votes

Ya I guess I'm just a liar. I've never seen any of this, and your talk of MMR was completely relevant to the OP too.

TheGrandAllianceJun 8, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Valkyrie Witch,realm=NA,application-id=WEuoGbmp,discussion-id=r5BbdGkF,comment-id=0008000000000000,timestamp=2015-06-08T23:21:06.059+0000)

Ya I guess I'm just a liar. I've never seen any of this, and your talk of MMR was completely relevant to the OP too.

Last few games of mine:

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/1847623096/227138169?tab=overview http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/1847574196/227138169?tab=overview http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/1847495296/227138169?tab=overview http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/1847359876/227138169?tab=overview

0 BN's on either side. SO yes Silver/Bronze don't understand BN.

Furthermore I haven't seen a successull (team or solo) backdoor in 20+ games: Been at least since Late April/Earily May since has happend. So yes it isnt going to happen.

Deep Terror NamiJun 9, 20153 votes

I don't recall saying "it happens every 4 or 20 games", or having the stipulation that it happened to you.

I never said anything about a particular MMR, yet you brought it up. I even humored you and let it slide so I said I have seen it. Then you say that I'm still wrong, despite my own personal experiences.

If I knew you were going to troll and use your recent experience to make truth claims about everyone else's, I wouldn't have bothered speaking to you. Please be intellectually honest next time.

TheGrandAllianceJun 9, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Valkyrie Witch,realm=NA,application-id=WEuoGbmp,discussion-id=r5BbdGkF,comment-id=000800000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-06-09T00:00:01.448+0000)

I don't recall saying "it happens every 4 or 20 games", or having the stipulation that it happened to you.

I never said anything about a particular MMR, yet you brought it up. I even humored you and let it slide so I said I have seen it. Then you say that I'm still wrong, despite my own personal experiences.

If I knew you were going to troll and use your recent experience to make truth claims about everyone else's, I wouldn't have bothered speaking to you. Please be intellectually honest next time.

BTW IDK WTF your talking about. Let me reclarify my original intention therefore.

Your contention is that you shouldn't surrender because there "is always a chance of victory".... which unless you consider lag or complete mental breakdown of the enemy team is a false statement.

Is it true that "it only takes one ace or backdoor to win?" ONly if your team CAN ACE or BACKDOOR at the RIGHT time... and THEN only after that KNOW how to DO THAT.

In some matchups your team will be indeed fully "stupid". If you not a carry role yourself you will not be able to win these games 100% of the time no matter what you try.

My problem with your OP is that you suggest that, because some impossible hope may exist, that teams should never surrender which by itself is trolling. Players like you who refuse to give up even if your team is 1/19 like this match I linked previously are just wasting my time.

Could a metor fall from the earth and kill my oppoents thus causing for me to win? Perhaps but wasting 20+ min trying to stay alive on a team that doesn't know how to use their champions is a pure waste of time when I could be 20+ min into the next game and already ahead... thus in process of recovering the LP I am about to lose from the first match.

In summary... simply because there is a .000000000000001% chance of winning doesnt mean you should never surrender. Or even 10%. The cost of not surrendering is lost time which is far more valuable then some LP (unless of course your happen to be in promos which is game over for you then).

If you want to be one of the "trolls" who won't surrender even if they completly lost themselves performance wise... don't be suprised when you get reported or othewised flamed out in-game therefore: There is no shame in the acceptance of knowing when you have been defeated.

Deep Terror NamiJun 9, 20153 votes

stahppppp, nothing you were saying is relevant. That is my point. I can't make it any more simple.

TheGrandAllianceJun 9, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Valkyrie Witch,realm=NA,application-id=WEuoGbmp,discussion-id=r5BbdGkF,comment-id=00080000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-06-09T00:20:24.556+0000)

stahppppp, nothing you were saying is relevant. That is my point. I can't make it any more simple.

It is perfectly relevant: Your OP is wrong:

Some disadvantages are insurmountable, sure, but more often than not a game is surrendered when your team's spirit is broken rather than when the game is impossible to win

More likely then not... a game is surrendered well after any point of return is possible. The reason for the team's sprit being broken is usually because they are very bad and know they cannot counter (they are noob with their champion).

Stay positive, and don't give up so easy. A single Ace or a tricky backdoor while you prevent the enemy B can turn the most impossible game into a close win.

That is not going to happen in one sided games... which in Bronze/Silver is probably the reason you are losing. In a "close" game yes this may be likely however if your team is on verge of surrendering... it is because it sucks. And of course if you are not a carry who could effect a backdoor this is not happening anyways.

Looks like someone here is a Lux Main alas...

Indeed it is so...

Deep Terror NamiJun 9, 20152 votes

Not a single word of that is true...

TheGrandAllianceJun 9, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Valkyrie Witch,realm=NA,application-id=WEuoGbmp,discussion-id=r5BbdGkF,comment-id=0008000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-06-09T00:56:45.396+0000)

Not a single word of that is true...

Alas we must pass to a disagreement on the matter then. Good luck trollin' ur games alas in the future no doubt...

Deep Terror NamiJun 9, 20152 votes

Yes, because you disagree with me, that means I troll games. Yet another outstanding example of your logic.

TheGrandAllianceJun 9, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Valkyrie Witch,realm=NA,application-id=WEuoGbmp,discussion-id=r5BbdGkF,comment-id=000800000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-06-09T01:07:50.948+0000)

Yes, because you disagree with me, that means I troll games. Yet another outstanding example of your logic.

Indeed... because if you were in my game you would be trollin' me alas: The definition of "troll" is of course in the Eye of the Beholder...

AlexXenoJun 8, 20153 votes

Umm. hi, Bronzy here. See plenty of back doors. Also seen many who were to afraid to try. also seen people greatly improve mid game XD Rank doesn't change peoples personalities. You will have cautious players and you will have brave players. I find the most important thing is team work overall. It's ok to be cautious, if the whole team is cautious.

AlexXenoJun 8, 20154 votes

I actually have to disagree with you. I have had teams that were horrible at the beginning. But they became motivated, and started working as a team for no apparent reason. It was beautiful and we made a incredible come back. Besides, you will "live on to fight another day" either way. It's a game, not war.

Occams RaiserJun 9, 20151 votes

Dragon is actually less important the lower MMR you are. You are more likely to throw over baron and drag fights than you are prone to exploit the advantage they give you. Wy fight over 1st drag if you are 3k down? Better to take turrets rather than contest.

TheGrandAllianceJun 9, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Occams Raiser,realm=NA,application-id=WEuoGbmp,discussion-id=r5BbdGkF,comment-id=00080002,timestamp=2015-06-09T06:06:52.454+0000)

Wy fight over 1st drag if you are 3k down? Better to take turrets rather than contest.

Because first dragon simply becomes the fifth... and I have won a few games simply on late game dragon stacking because I am vs teams like your logic who don't contest ANY dragon and take team comps esp bad at late game and use 5th dragon to win. IT is true many matches won't make it that far however the 3rd dragon is far more useful in low MMR games then you may think.

...especially since people "like to run around solo in areas of no vision"... the boost in movement speed can make the difference in escaping a team vs feeding into a 4v5 that leads to rest of map lost.

Furthermore dragon steals are usually best time to turn a 3K gold advantage around as long as you have right comp that can do that. Otherwise you are going to run out of chances very fast otherwise.

Occams RaiserJun 9, 20151 votes

Furthermore dragon steals are usually best time to turn a 3K gold advantage around as long as you have right comp that can do that.

Well that is the long and short of the question at hand. 3k disadvantage at what level can you come back from? How much of a factor is dragon, what is your comp, and what is your ability to catch the enemy out of position to the point his advantage is taken away?

TheGrandAllianceJun 9, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Occams Raiser,realm=NA,application-id=WEuoGbmp,discussion-id=r5BbdGkF,comment-id=0008000200000000,timestamp=2015-06-09T20:46:39.876+0000)

Well that is the long and short of the question at hand. 3k disadvantage at what level can you come back from? How much of a factor is dragon, what is your comp, and what is your ability to catch the enemy out of position to the point his advantage is taken away?

Leona Ulti+ focus stuns on enemy smite + followup CC from rest of team... burst squishes then cleanup... time for when dragon about to die (approx. 1000HP at lower lvls). Easy steal ace and gg.

Occams RaiserJun 10, 20151 votes

If you could do all this without dying I doubt you would be 3000 behind. 3k is more than 6 unanswered kills.

KãtãrinãJun 8, 20152 votes

I still much rather my enemy surrender, makes it quicker and denies a comeback/throw : )

Deep Terror NamiJun 8, 20151 votes

I guess I should've added that to the vote; "Make the enemy surrender"

DrinkMoreWhiskeyJun 9, 20152 votes

I see more comebacks in plat them ever. Usually simply when your team simply isn't bi*ching at each other .

It drives me nuts when people start whining like 5-10 min into a game

ThePlasticSporkJun 9, 20152 votes

TBH there are games where my team is losing so badly that I don't even want to put in the necessary amount of effort that might make the slightest hope of a comeback possible.

Like, sure. Maybe, just maaaaaybe, you can hold out a game that's like 5-20 and you're down several towers long enough to get that lucky ace, but it's going to be hell getting there and not fun either way.

Of course, that's normals. I have a no surrender policy in ranked unless it's some really extreme circumstances.

Laughing FishJun 9, 20152 votes

0-30? http://i.imgur.com/c47mJAw.gif

MrBuffingtonJun 8, 20151 votes

My surrender point is when it seems apparent that the enemy team seems to have far more synergy than my team, and other strategies seem implausible; this is based on who's flaming who, how many consecutive teamfights we lost and why, and the way the other team is playing the map compared to ours, etc

StealWolverineJun 8, 20151 votes

One correction I Think should be made. It should say one pick instead of ace

Guy Fox TeemoJun 9, 20151 votes

I never surrender, EVER, even unless every dam person on there team is 10-0-40, I ain't giving up, I"ve won many games just by stalling the game for long periods of time, since I'm in silver, and people aren't very good at closing out games quick in it, and eventually they get greedy etc. , make bad plays, and our team eventually wins from them being to arrogant.

Occams RaiserJun 9, 20151 votes

"Never give up" is for suckers. They have a sharpshooter mentality. They only remember the ones they com back from, not the ones they lost hard after never giving up. They never remember the wasted time playing games where the enemy team beats you at 20 but takes another 20 minutes to finish you off as you turtle in base.

Deep Terror NamiJun 9, 20151 votes

Nice hasty generalization.

Occams RaiserJun 9, 20151 votes

It is a generalization. But it is built on firm psychology. Of course there are some games that are winnable and there are some people that never give up and win the majority of there come backs. You can dismiss what I said if you want. We both have data from RIOT and other third party sources that says the lower the elo the lower chance of a come back. The largest divs are b,s,g. In Bronze and silver the likelihood is a bit higher than winning a 4 on 5. That was hyperbole but you get my point.

TouchpadExpertJun 9, 20151 votes

Buzz Lightyear quote. Upvoted.

Aeolian MelodiesJun 12, 20151 votes

I did not vote on the poll because mostly my breaking point is in the team's attitude. If everyone is trying, doing their best and hasn't given up, we can be 0-30 I'm a believer until our Nexus falls. When the team doesn't believe we have a shot, or when there's been/there is bitching, forget it. I'll still be playing my best until it's over but if a surrender vote pops up every time it's available, I probably started it.

I've been known to start "statement surrenders" too where I start a surrender vote just so people will go "wtf we still have a shot at winning WTF AEOLIAN?!?!?!?!?!?!" and suddenly they stop bitching about how we're behind, lol.