Randuin's/ Banshee's/ Warmog's on ADC

Chatillon·Jul 27, 2015·1 votes·1,536 views

So i now when/why to do QSS and GA

but when the heck is it good to build Randuin's on an ADC? It can't save you from Riven and QSS is better for Zed. It seems clunky and I don't understand the point.

Banshee's is wierd too. It is basically the MR equivalent of Randuin's . Like will it save you from LB killing you before you can even press your E on Sivir? Would you build it against a full ad comp if they have some deadly cc

and warmog's, i've seen on Nighblue's stream an adc talking to their thresh about how they need two defensive items this game and banshees would be good. Then thresh said ______ had voidstaff and then the adc said they would get warmogs instead b/c banshee's was useless with void. I like Nighblue's stream, too bad he sucks kappa

Help me understand, sempai-kun

9 Comments

colesyJul 27, 20152 votes

yes, it will save you from lb one-shotting you and gives you an extra split second to actually react, too.

banshee is good when champions have specific high impact abilities you want avoid, like a malphite ult or irelia stun, but against poke teams they'll just poke through it so it can be kinda sucky against those. against full AD teams you can either go randuin (the slow will help you kite if you get jumped on too) or even GA simply for the passive. warmog's is useless if an ad is building it as a defensive item because hp with no resistances is way too easy to just burn through and it makes their lifesteal worth a little less, whereas building a randuin, banshee or GA makes your HP actually worth more since you're getting resistances with them. for example one random normal I had a fiora built a frozen mallet, and when I engaged her as tristana she still disintegrated because it's just pure hp.

AirSonanceJul 27, 20151 votes

I think Banshee's is good against poke comps. The kind that will sit back and try to chunk you before a fight breaks out. Arguably, you could just dodge the skillshots, but the veil passive will keep you safer.

junglerboy16Jul 27, 20151 votes

never warmog's imo, you don't need out of combat sustain unless you don't have lifesteal, and you don't have enough health for the passive regen to be worthwhile.

Randuin's is exceptional if you need to kite multiple diving enemies or if you're facing an AD assassin like Talon.

Banshee's is great vs poke like Nidalee or a combo reliant champion like Annie, Brand, or Leblanc.

Personally, my favorite pseudo defensive item is the Black Cleaver, since it offers health, kiting strength, AD, and an awesome armor shred. it isn't quite as strong for kiting as frozen mallet, but it offers far more damage.

ChatillonJul 27, 20151 votes

what if i have a GA and a warmogs?

rampaging poetJul 28, 20152 votes

Then you missed out on other important ADC stats. All the stats ADCs need stack multiplicatively with each other, so you give up more damage than you might think by dropping one of your four attack items for another defensive item.

junglerboy16Jul 28, 20151 votes

Basically what rampaging Poet said. ADCs need a high amount of AD, AS, Crit, and armor penetration to do their job, which is usually 3-4 item slots anyway, and only an absolute novice at the game forgoes lifesteal on the one role that it is basically designed for, so that is already at least 4 slots taken by offensive items bare minimum. Add in that you basically need boots outside super late game where you can sell it for a PD and that leaves you with (at most) a single slot for a defensive item. Skipping a lifesteal item or any of your AD/AS/crit/Arpen items will leave you woefully behind the later the game goes.

ChatillonJul 28, 20151 votes

Okay, but that said, an ADC's job is to do damage and to do that, they need to stay alive. I mean, if you die, you cant auto or help with objectives. You could switch out a defensive item for more damage once the gold lead becomes moot b/c lvl 18 etc. , but if you die, you aren't doing your job at all. I rarely get two 'hardcore' defensive items, it usually goes to Mercurial and a GA at the most, so its 1 1/2 but if you're dying and need the extra, why wouldn't you. Would it be better to die to just do more damage or stay alive and do a little less

junglerboy16Jul 28, 20151 votes

Staying alive is definitely more important than higher auto attack damage, but— sometimes the key to surviving is rather to kill the enemy first. An ADC with one defensive item like a banshee's or randuin's will kill an ADC with 2 defensive items much more quickly than they will be killed because of how their damage multipliers work. Having an extra 80 AD and 20% lifesteal from a BT over a warmog's, or an extra 40 AD and 35% armor pen will allow them to deal so much more damage that the extra 800 HP and slight bit of in combat regen won't matter for the enemy ADC.

It is also paramount to have maximized DPS for getting through a tank. Have you ever tried facing a 300 armor tank as ADC without a last whisper? you deal at most 400 damage with an IE empowered crit, often closer to 150 or less for non-critical attacks. with armor pen your AAs deal almost twice that, and killing a 4000 HP tank in 3-4 seconds is much safer for the ADC than killing them in 6-8. if you forgo lifesteal, then a tank with Thornmail will literally kill you before you even get them to half health most of the time. if you leave out crit, then your DPS drops by about 70%. If you leave out AS, your DPS drops by at least half unless you have an insane built in steroid.

Having a warmog's on an ADC would be lovely, but it is inefficient as a defensive item by itself and you literally need every other slot to be dedicated to damage if you want to be of any use in your role.

rampaging poetJul 28, 20151 votes

Banshee's veil is for when there's a few specific enemy abilities you have to avoid, like if the enemy team has a hook (Blitz, Thresh). It also makes Veigar cry.

Randuin's is good when the enemy has a lot of AD or auto-attack-reliant champions. Even without the active the passive can save you with the attack speed slow. Frozen Heart can also be good for that if nobody else on your team has it.

Warmog's on an ADC I could maybe see against a poke comp because of the extra sustain, but it's a very niche item at best. You won't have the resistances to take advantage of the extra health, and you should be building a lifesteal item so you can farm minions or jungle camps for sustain between engagements. It might also be useful against mixed-damage burst? Definitely not something to use in a typical game.

If you need magic resist but the enemy doesn't have a lot of CC, I'd also consider Spirit Visage because it synergizes with lifesteal. Another option if you're being poked down or dueling the enemy ADC a lot is double-lifesteal: BotRK + The Bloodthirster gives you a lot of in-combat healing and the extra shield to make it harder for the enemy to burst you down.