Talon with smite. A serious question

The Tilted King·3/4/2015, 4:43:18 PM·1 votes·1,202 views

I actually just saw that Redmercy made a video explaining the use of smite on Zed. While its definitely questionable on Zed alone. (despite having fairly good results) I had started to think about it on Talon as well. so thinking about it..maybe it works? Im just trying to theorize it out and see if maybe its an alternative I could go to and dicuss its viability. also excuse me if this looks kinda hard to read, my thoughts are faster than my typing xD

There are similarities between zed and talons item builds. AD assassins are typically using the same items after all. Id say right now the standard for talon is probably a flask and 2 pots. rushing a tiamat for help with wave clear with Rake. As well as the damage from the active and the AA reset. making your highest damage combo being E>AA>Q>AA>tiamat AA and rake when they try to run (they usually do) which can all happen in the time span of the damage amp from the E. Now, aside from the Tiamat being a part of his combo (later finished into a hydra ofc) its also a strong item and helps with his wave clearing which is typically why I rush it early game because the csing and push he has without it is bad Vs a majority of Mid laner champs right now. However, if we take a look at stalkers blade and what it can potentially bring to the table as being a rush item, or possibly just a second item we see something kinda nice. Chilling Smite. 50% slow for 2 seconds. as well as a bit of true damage ofc. So getting a stalkers blade, allows you to easily and slightly more safely all in, I think anyway. Reason being is that Talons main problem with picking is that E is a pure utility skill. and theres no real benefit to maxing it. Also, its an engage for a pick so as soon as you use it your commited to that target. if you gotta die to get that kill then do it cause your not getting away 9/10 times even with ulti.
his E is a gap closer and a damage amp and the slow doesnt last long enough to proc his passive at all. (.25 sec. maybe his first AA gets it) Whereas you max Rake and Noxian diplomacy you causing a bit of a slow and some bleed. Problem with that is Rake is usually something you use.. in the early game (for this example) id say before you went to all in..hit em with it, wait for the cd to be almost done. then go for the engage and finish off with rake. (note, by the time you do this example, the passive isnt proccd)

Now inversely you could start your engage with the Rake for the 2 second slow, provided that you really can hit off the full combo THAT fast (i honestly dont know how long it takes to do those AA during combo, but 2 seconds doesnt seem like itd be long enough) also taking into account the time between the Rake hitting, the engage with E and the first auto. I feel as though its not fast enough to make it to the AA reset after Q (also not sure if Q is affected by passive as well, if anyone can confirm that id love to hear it) and again, personal experience but rake has been more effective as an excecution or a catch, especially if they ran to safety of tower (talon cannot dive at all) Theres not really any slow going on from talon himself. now of course, the slow duration from rake and chilling smite is the same but Rakes slow effect is not as high. As well as that, he isnt great at sticking to a target. if they start to run for turret or to another ally or peel you off in any way you need to immidiately disengage and chase potential isnt fantastic either... I rather use his ultimate to get away if I have to, not to engage (cause they always know when you pop ulti your going in. its a very obvious tell)

with chilling smite youd get a 2 second slow that can be used in conjunction with a youmous to easily catch your targets and proc your passive a well, but really more for HOW SLOW they get. (again 2 seconds isnt that long) seeing as how as an assassin you dont wanna be kited ever and if your trying to catch a fleeing target to finish them, you should be able to more easily. Also with a smite leading into an engage you could most likely get an AA off right after the smite. potentially I can Imagine jumping a target (lets say...from bushes) with Smite, AA>Q>AA while the chilling smite is still active. And most would probably start running as soon as your done with that little trade allowing you to rake, catch up to them with E and repeat. (if they really live past your full combo and a the trade with smite, your just not doing enough damage, making an execution with Rake less optimal)

Then theres also considering the stalkers blade with the warrior enchantment. 40 AD 10% CDR 10 Armor Pen thats not bad, and early game thats quite a jump. the cdr is great as well as the AD and armor pen is always something great to have as an assassin. However building one does get in the way of his core item build for him as well as delay some more much needed items.

Also not having Ignite would make securing kills a bit harder in some situations, as its damage is higher than smites and is a DOT effect that creates kill pressure in lane. I was just thinkin about it, and wouldnt mind some feedback or discussion about it. I think its definitely an interesting idea to maybe give him a bit more OOMPH but then again, it could be terrible in application

5 Comments

Inphernal3/4/2015, 5:08:40 PM1 votes

sounds like youre using rake wrong

ccseancc1433/4/2015, 8:13:05 PM1 votes

Iv tried it and I found that ignite is better for laning and smite is better for roaming and securing drags and barons. If you are playing draft and you know you wont be able to kill your enemy laner smite isn't a bad option if you roam alot since the chilling smite slow stacks nicely with all of Talon's slows in his kit.