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Countering Tank Junglers

Blue Collar Bear··1 votes·6,315 views

In a majority of my ranked matches, the enemy jungler is usually a tank jungler. What tends to happen is that they get ahead, and they're too tanky to fight even when the odds are in our favor. My question is, how do I deal with tank junglers especially when they have an ability that scales off of health?

19 Comments

QuantumLight3 votes

itemize against them.

alternatively you could try to counter jg and get them waayyy behind.

BluePolarizer2 votes

Trundle and Master Yi (bruiser build) hard counter tanks.

MasterYi item 3153 item 3710 item 3111 item 3143item 3102 item 3035 is amazing against tanks because he can either dodge or facetank their CC and then melt them with true damage and armor piercing %damage, dealt at 2.5 attacks per second even with just 2 AS items thanks to runes and his steroids.

Trundle item 3153 item 3710 item 3111 item 3110 item 3065 item 3078 melts tanks like nothing as well, thanks to his armor/MR/HP stealing ult and massive steroids (also % health damage dealt at 2.5 attacks per second)

Blue Collar Bear1 votes

Do you know any other junglers that have percent health damage in their kit? I'll probably look on my own after writing this, but all I know of is Amumu and Sion.

Merxamers1 votes

Khazix does % health damage to tanks if they're isolated (with your evolved Q), tho if you try to fight them before you have some items you will probably die. Fortunately, item 3035 and item 3071 are very strong items for him, and work well against tanks.

You can also take the 'Usual Suspects', Vi JarvanIV Pantheon , for different reasons; all 3 have some amount of cc that will give the rest of your team time to burst down the tank, and Vi and J4 have armor shred built into their kits. Plus, all three of these can gank aggressively and successfully while the tank jungler is trying to farm.

BluePolarizer1 votes

kha is weak against tanks due to his low sustained damage and low burst when not isolated. later on Pantheon and j4 fall off hard compared to tanks due to low sustained damage. best way to melt tanks is high sustained damage combined with percent hp damage. high attack speed bruisers are the way to go for jungler tank busters.

Merxamers1 votes

We can recommend all the champs we want + BoRK, but the way to beat tank junglers is to play around them. They are almost all really at moving and clearing, and don't gank that often. To counter that, take a jungler who can gank aggressively and put your laners ahead. Several champions, like pantheon and Xin, can invade their jungle and kill the tank jungler. They may fall off later, but if you've successfully pulled this off you've given your team a huge head start, and tank junglers have a very difficult time coming back from poor early games.

BluePolarizer1 votes

Pantheon and Xin invades are extremely risky because you have no escapes. If laners collapse on you, you are 100% dead, and the tank jungler can even 1v1 you if they have a good clear and are healthy while you aren't. While not a tank jungler, Yi is the same idea; too many games where a lvl. 3 pantheon comes "invade" me when I'm already lvl. 5 and full HP, thanks to way faster clears and W, and he backs off knowing that he can't do shit. That is why Lee and Shaco are far better counterpicks - laners that collapse on you fall behind for nothing, while if they don't, you fk up their jungler.

You also have it backwards. Tank junglers are the best gankers in the game with decent base damage and very strong CC; they just suck at farming. Rammus was sitting at a 60% win rate back in September because no bruiser jungler can 1v1 him while he can gank every lane every 30 seconds with mobis+homeguards. He doesn't even farm after that, he just farms champs.

It is very hard to outgank tank junglers because most already have decent ganks at 3/4 at least on par with Vi, as long as they are healthy. The healthy part is what most tank junglers had trouble with, until now. The easiest way is to hard counter them with autoattackers that synergize with BORK and have some sort of tank shredding ability (true damage, %HP) and outcarry them, or a champ that hard counters them due to far better counterjungling and splitpushing (has to be both) like Lee or Shaco. Pantheon, Xin, Vi, etc are too immobile and fall off too hard for this. You want to risk losing instantly at lvl. 3 with a failed Pantheon invade?

Merxamers1 votes

If a pantheon invades the enemy jungle after his first buff, he can easily get a kill or force a flash. Don't forgeet, your laners are just as capable at responding to this as the enemy. I play as pretty much every kind of jungler, and i don't really know where you get the impression that tanks are unstoppable ganking machines. despite the new item, none of them will be able to healthily gank before level 4 or 5, by which time a more aggressive champ (like xin or panth) will have already ganked at least 3 times (shaco and lee do pretty much the same thing).

I'm trying to suggest ways to beat tank junglers through playstyle; the best way to beat tank junglers is to put them behind because every tank is pretty useless if they have to spend the whole game playing catch-up.

BluePolarizer1 votes

your laners cant respond as well to an invade because they will be further away.

your playstyle only works for Lee Sin and Shaco who have good escapes. Xin and Pantheon are way too immobile.

I play carry junglers and tank junglers almost exclusively in high gold/low plat. Unless the enemy jungler is way better than you, it is easy to take unorthodox paths and exploit their invade for an easy kill or worst case, avoid them. It is using the lack of communication in solo queue as an advantage. The burden is on the gank jungler to make plays; all the carry or tank jungler has to do is avoid dying pre-6 and to keep map awareness.

There are playstyle changes you can make but those are far harder than simply counterpicking. Why do things the hard way when you can do things the easy way? The weakness of tanks is clear - weaker 1v1 at all points of the game and slow clears. Why pick champs that are equally slow at clearing and only have average 1v1ing when you can pick extremely fast clearers and extremely strong duelists?

junglerboy161 votes

Ha doesn't deal % hp damage on Q anymore, they nerfed it away in the middle of last season.

WukongMain1 votes

try out trundle in the jungle, he worked top lane to counter the tanky top lane meta awhile back

he could be the solution now.

Trundle in the Jungle.

junglerboy161 votes

Trundle is League's anti-tank, so yes he counters tanks in every role they are played.

IcyPepper1 votes

They build a lot of health due to abilities scaling off it? item 3153 (it's a worthy substitute for BT if there's a troublesome tank)

They have a lot of armor and you're the adc/apc? item 3035 item 3135

They have a lot of armor/MR and you're just a fighter/tank? item 3071 item 3142 item 3091

There's a few options. Just itemize against them. No matter your role, this is an important part of the game.

Zmuecat1 votes

And:

item 3139 item 3222 item 3157 summoner 1

Some champions to use if tanks are bothering you:

Any ADC (properly peeled and/or kiting)

Blue Collar Bear1 votes

I mostly play jungle. What I'm hearing is that until late game, tanks are just gonna faceroll me.

junglerboy161 votes

Actually it is the opposite. Tanks usually have a horrendous early game, strong mid-late game, and then fall off again late-late game. Pick a really strong early aggression jungler or a very strong duelist and you can invade and counter jungle them very hard.

Skia Asteri1 votes

Either find a way to put them behind early so they do not get tanky as quickly or get the person on your team with the best sustained damage ahead so they will be able to kill a tank in a reasonable time span.

Ultimately, you beat tanks by your team being able to kill them in a reasonable time frame without burning any significant cool downs on them.

A rush of item 3153 item 3035 on your teams marksman can help if the tank line is getting defense faster than your marksman is finishing damage items as a quick bandage, but having a high enough damage output to deal with tanks without item 3153 is better. It merely normalizes the time taken based on the difference between your damage and their HP... and can be worse than other options when your damage is sufficiently high relative to their HP.

If you are an AD jungler, item 3071 can help if enemy tanks are building lots of armor.

junglerboy161 votes

Forget building against them, the absolute best way to make a tank jungle cry is to counter jungle them HARD. I have been playing tank junglers since about this time last year, and I will say, they are only as weak or strong as your opponent lets them be. One game I was playing Maokai jungle (pre-rework) and at that point he was VERY vulnerable early game, but since their Jarvan didn't counter jungle me once all game, I was able to ramp up into an absolute behemoth, which should not have happened. In another game, I was playing as the new Sion in the jungle. He like all tanks is vulnerable to invade, and this game the enemy Tryndamere jungle knew that and stole ~70% of my camps and left me helpless for most of the game.

The really strong tanks right now (like Sejuani, Sion, and Nautilus) all scale very well, very fast, so you have to invade them from the get go. have someone ward one buff, and you ward their other buff, and as soon as you see them near one buff go to the other one. Have smite ready and wait for them to get low and get the camp low too. Smite steal it and then try to kill them. If you can kill them, great! If not, then you will usually force them to back, during which time you want to kill every one of their camps except for one small monster each, so that they don't respawn. Keep tabs on their buffs and steal them whenever they are up and the tank is either low or in a different part of the map.

If you can't counter jungle like that, then your best bet is to get your lanes fed and farm up hard yourself, and try to shut down their lanes and watch for countergank opportunities. If you are an AP jungle, build a Liandry's, if you are AD, build a BotRK. If you aren't jungling and their tank gets rolling, rush your penetration item ASAP, and/or get your tenacity items.

Counterjungling is and always will be the best way to shut out a tank, but building around it can be useful in a pinch.

EDIT: Trundle. This guy right here is also specifically designed to literally eat tanks and steal everything that makes them strong. If their tank gets fed, you as Trundle naturally get fed even more because you take the stats they build for yourself via Q and R. That and he is also an exceptional duelist and counterjungler, which are the two things that shut down tanks the hardest, since they are weak 1v1 and weak to invade.

Blue Collar Bear1 votes

So, to update my situation, I've found that Shyvana is really great for countering tank junglers. I can invade them very early, and I know I can outduel them. I've found that Gragas is also not too bad against hard engage tank junglers, like Sejuani or Sion. It just messes up their engage. Any more info aside from banning them is appreciated.

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