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A Serious Discussion on Devourer

Blue Collar Bear··15 votes·3,604 views

So, I've talked with many about this, and I'd like to get a serious discussion about this going.

Devourer is the least popular of the enchantments, and it is not fun to build over the other jungle enchantments. I'll explain why I feel this way. Devourer is supposed to be a late game item that requires the player to consistently be able to stack by farming and/or ganking lanes. It is supposed to reward players by them doing those things efficiently. In reality, it is the exact opposite of this. Devourer is a snowball item, not a scaling item for someone who is looking to have a good late game. Why? It is because unless you get Devourer extremely early, stacking it becomes a right pain in the ass. Let me explain why.

In most games, even when I've died a few times, I can get Devourer at least at ten minutes. The earliest I've managed to get it is at five minutes in when I secure the kill on both first blood and another player whilst also doing a full clear. On a typical game, I get it at seven minutes in after two clears and a kill. Let's go through what happens in each of these games.

In a game where I am behind, I generally only get a few stacks if any before the first turret falls. By this time, I am unsafe in my jungle and unable to stack efficiently. The game ends early. In a typical game, I am able to stack 20 - 30 stacks before I am forced to group, defend objectives, or retreat from the jungle as it is unsafe. In a game where I have snowballed, I will have 50+ stacks at twenty minutes in and I will reach the low 100s by end game. In this game, I will be safe at almost every point in the game and I can continue to stack without interruption whilst also taking objectives.

At most points in a bad or typical game, Warrior would have given better / identical damage earlier and at any point in the game. Unless you have the option to scale, you can't scale. It is an absolute gamble, and there is a better, safer alternative that gives a better power spike at most points in the game. This is the reason that Devourer is such an unattractive item. What can be done to make Devourer a safer option for junglers that wish to focus on an end game oriented build, rather than an early dominance build? My answer is one that has already been implemented into the game before.

What made Madred's Razors and Feral Flare so successful? In my opinion, what made these items successful is that the stacking mechanic applied immediately and the investment was minimal. The scaling was almost ensured, because of these two reasons. With Devourer, scaling is a gamble unless you're ahead due to the steep cost to start stacking. My suggestion would be to reincorporate the Feral Flare stacking mechanic in one of two ways. The first way is simplest. Bring back Madred's Razors and have it serve the same function, but have it upgrade into Devourer. The second would be to allow stacking to commence as soon as the player bought a Machete and killed their first camp. Both would be a solution to some degree, but I believe part of the problem with Devourer is build path. I lean towards the former option.

Please upvote this in hopes of keeping the discussion alive, and please add your own ideas.

52 Comments

junglerboy164 votes

I have a few thoughts on this:

  • The simplest, but also least useful change, would be to bump the base damage back up to 30-35, instead of a measly 25. This would make up for not stacking before getting the item, without making the item all about power farming, but actually scaling (that is what makes Devourer so much better than Feral flare ever was).

  • If stacking started from the beginning of the game, it would bring back the AFK farmers to the jungle, which is a BAD THING. Adding stacking earlier would only help to make it snowball you harder if able to power farm, or still be useless if behind.

  • The stacking needs to work more in the manner that Conservation stacks worked on the old spirit stone items. Something like this: every ~10 seconds or so (numbers would obviously be balanced based on actual testing) you gain a stack of devour, up to 6 stacks (maybe more like 10 or 12 would be better). Killing a large monster consumes up to 3 stacks, granting you up to 3 extra damage on-hit. Killing a champion or assisting a kill consumes up to 3 stacks to give you up to 6 extra damage on-hit. This would allow you to be strategic with the item, rather than just power farming stacks all game long. You just used half your stacks? look for a gank before you need to go back and use some up on a jungle camp. This is a very rough idea, but I hope this gets the general idea across.

  • If there were a more conservation style stacking mechanic, it would limit over the top snowballing (via a hard cap on the amount of stacks you can generate any given time) while also allowing someone who is sort of behind a chance to catch up by using their stacks on a camp to get up to 3 on-hit damage off a single camp if super pressured in their own base or not able to farm jungle for any other reason.

  • Looking at a similar item, the Frost Queen's claim item set, changing from a passive that allows you to gain stacks whenever you damage something to whenever you expend a stack on something took it from an absolute trash item to being a strong (but not overpowered) item that fit in well with the other support items. Giving Devourer this treatment would make it work much more efficiently in terms of how you stack, how fast you snowball, and how well you can catch up.

So, yeah, TL;DR: Riot should either bump the base damage or give it a conservation style passive, but NOT make it stack from the start of the game.

Blue Collar Bear2 votes

I always enjoy having you in my discussions.

I agree that simply upgrading the base damage would be a bad idea. It would most likely outclass Warrior as an early dominance item, too. I disagree that upgrading the base damage would make it scale better. I think it would just give the item a stronger early presence whilst not improving the actual problem with the item.

I agree that stacking from the beginning of the game would be bad, due to certain play styles. On the topic of Feral Flare, the reason why it was so much about power farming is that you had to power farm your camps to get the on-hit damage to champions. You were only able to get it so far into the game, whereas Devourer gives you very immediate damage between five and ten minutes in the game. However, Feral Flare was extremely cheap! A player could buy Madred's Razors for 450g on their first back, and immediately begin on another item because their stacks would not be ready to upgrade on their next back. This gave so much lenience in your build path. This is what I want to see return to the game, because it gave me so much to think about in terms of strategy.

Your conservation mechanic would work very well. It encourages players to gank, ensures scaling, and players will not be AFK farming all day. Something I would like to see is Devourer being able to purchase for another 450g after the initial item upgrade, but it only improves your damage whilst jungling (i.e. improved damage to monsters). Attack speed and on-hit magic damage would scale with your conservation stacks with attack speed eventually capping out. I see several problems with my idea, but the conservation mechanic would benefit the item as a whole, even if the way players stack is the only thing that changed.

junglerboy161 votes

I agree about your point on why Feral flare was a farm oriented item, and I guess the reason I would say that stacking Devourer from the beginning would make it bad is that I have a feeling that Riot would probably feel the need to reintroduce the transformation gameplay of Wriggle's>Flare with it, or wouldn't do it at all.

When I said that giving it a better base damage would make it more about actually scaling rather than power farming, I was primarily comparing it to a feral flare style stack from the start, which would be less about farming in my opinion. Additionally, what I read from several other posters right after the 4.21 Devourer nerf is that nerving the base damage would only make them want to farm up harder after getting it so that they would still come out of the jungle with a +40 on-hit damage effect, and that is the other reason I suggested that bumping up the base damage would reduce the feeling that you have to hard farm for it to become very useful.

That said, I'm liking the conservation idea more and more the longer I think about it, and it would avoid the issues of the other two ideas pretty well.

P.S. I'm glad to hear I'm a pleasant appearance :D

Blue Collar Bear1 votes

I just struggle with the steep cost of Devourer, and how much of a gamble it is. I would even be fine with taking a nerf to the base stats, so long as the scaling was safer.

junglerboy161 votes

Agreed, that snowbally-ness is what makes it less appealing to me than a Warrior or Magus or Cinderhulk right now. Warrior offers the highest reliability since it boosts your AAs without needing to stack, Cinderhulk helps tanks with scaling more quickly (since a tank is only good for so long and needs a lead to succeed), and Magus is more useful on every non AA reliant AP jungler (so basically all of them except maybe Diana).

The5lacker3 votes

You seem to be under the impression that "Infinity" is the goal with Devourer. Think of it this way: At 50% AS, Devourer is, completely ignoring the on-hit effect, completely cost efficient. Factoring in the jungling buffs, bonus gold, and smite modification of your Jungle item, Devourer is fantastic right off the bat, and only gets better as the game goes on.

Blue Collar Bear5 votes

The cost efficiency of an item is simply the cost of the item for the stats it gives. Literally, all you're saying is that the item is worth the money you spent on it. Just about every item is cost efficient. This is a bad reason to not want to fix the item.

To quote the patch notes, the goal of the items were to give the junglers tools to react to the state of the game. I'll give a scenario: your entire team is not doing well, and there is little you can do to help them. Each lane has given a kill, and their jungler is pressuring lanes very hard. It is likely you will be killed along with your laner, if you try to interfere. All you are able to do is farm and abuse your opponent's mistakes, since your team is playing from a disadvantage. All I'm able to do is farm and the team is having a rough early game, so I need to do better in the mid to late game. Sounds like I need to build Devourer to scale, right? How am I supposed to scale if laning phase is already over and I can't farm my jungle efficiently, despite the fact I just got my Devourer? This reinforces the idea that Devourer is a snowball item, despite the fact that Warrior has the exact same function with better stats earlier.

Infinity is not the goal. Scaling damage is the goal, and the item is not fulfilling the goal in most situations.

The5lacker3 votes

Yes: Without factoring in the Pickaxe worth of on-hit damage it grants you, Devourer is cost efficient.

Do you know what super-popular, end-game, on-hit item isn't cost efficient? Blade of the Ruined King. It has a strong on-hit effect and some relevant stats, and it's barely 80% gold efficient. Because you have to factor in the on-hit damage.

Lets convert the on-hit damage Devourer grants to AD on a 1 for 1 basis and figure out what the cost should be, okay?

50% AS = 1500g 25 Damage = 900g Total base value = 2400g

Even without factoring in all of the jungle bonuses or stacking damage, Devourer is 2400g worth of stats for 1400g. That's 1k of free stats. Snazzy. Lets compare to the other enchantments.

Magus 80 AP = 1740g 20% CDR = 633g Total base value = 2373g

Warrior 40 AD = 1440g 10% CDR = 317g 10 Armor Pen = 120g (Terrible measurement but we'll go for it.) Total base value = 1877g

Cinderhulk 350 Health + self bonus from Passive = 1167g Plus all of the value from the +25% bonus Health and the Immolate passive, which I would put around 800g total

At its base values, Devourer is worth more than the other enchantments. Right off the bat. Just because it doesn't singlehandedly carry you to victory doesn't mean it's worthless: None of the jungler enchantments do! And unlike all of the other jungler enchantments, Devourer remains relevant at the 40 minute mark!

Blue Collar Bear5 votes

The cost efficiency is not the issue with the item. At this point, I don't think you bothered to read my post.

I'll humor you, though. Treating on-hit magic damage as flat AD is not a good way to estimate its potential cost efficiency. It is not a good idea, because any form of physical damage benefits from arpen and anyone with a ratio benefits more from flat AD whereas, on-hit magic damage only comes through auto attacks and champion abilities that proc on-hit effects. Therefore, on-hit magic damage is potentially worth far less than flat AD on an item.

The5lacker3 votes

Ah, you're one of those lunatics who think the word "penetration" means "+10,000% damage." Gotcha.

Magic Damage has 100% Armor Penetration.

Blue Collar Bear5 votes

Well, good day to you. I won't miss our conversation.

junglerboy161 votes

Well it doesn't have 100% magic penetration, and as an on-hit that is supposed to scale hard into late game, if you can't build mpen into your items, it actually becomes rather useless unless you have 70+ stacks.

Warrior gives AD and Arpen, which naturally synergize together. Devourer gives AS and an on-hit, which also synergize together. However, Arpen and AD scale much harder throughout the game on any champion with any sort of AD scalings, and AS and on-hits only scale with each other and mpen.

Basically, AD=/=on-hit damage 1 to 1, because AD scales with abilities, critical strike, AS, arpen, and lifesteal. On-hit magic damage scales with AS and mpen (as well as the number of stacks gained in this case). They are not directly comparable in any real way, particularly in terms of the number of multipliers and the effect it has on a carry jungler's sustain (since most build lifesteal at some point).

Your example of choice, the BotRK, is a unique item in the realm of on-hit effects because it's stats (while not effected by crit or (maybe?) lifesteal) Is extremely slot efficient, because of the on hit being physical and you are not required to go out of a normal DPS build to get mpen to keep it strong like with Devourer, which of course makes it a good late game item, when gold is less important than the amount of stats crammed into your inventory (especially considering that BotRK's on-hit damage scales off of % current health, making it scale into late game independently of other items or how well you farmed). Devourer is less cost efficient on purchase than every other jungle enchant, because on-hit magic damage is not of the same gold value as AD (whether you're defending the whole "magic damage has 100% arpen" gimmick or not), and it is difficult to get it to scale to the slot efficiency of BotRK or other high end items like it is clearly designed with the purpose of doing.

The5lacker1 votes

Okay, lets stop and think (A novel concept, I know.) Lets say you have an AD champion, and he's winning. Because he's winning, the enemy team builds armor. Because that's why Armor and MR are separate stats and almost universally on separate items: You can only effectively defend against one at a time without going full tank.

So, lets say for a moment that the enemy has built..250 Armor. Pretty reasonable between Randuin's, Sunfire, and perhaps an Iceborn Guantlet for good measure. They haven't built any MR outside of Merc Treads, so their MR is around... 80 - 100.

Now lets compare how effective Physical Damage with Armor Pen is vs Magic Damage against that champion.

250 Armor - 35% for Last Whisper = 162.5 effective Armor

Lets see, which is bigger...162.5 Armor, or 100 Magic Resistance. Hrm...which is bigger...

I can't tell, can you?

junglerboy161 votes

Um, I don't think you get what my argument said (I guess thinking really is pretty novel).

162 armor is definitely larger, but let me ask you, which is better: 200 (base +1 or 2 items) AD that scales with crit chance, AS, and lifesteal, or 100 magic damage that scales only with AS. you would deal about 50 damage on hit late game without mpen against the target in your example, but you would deal on average 200 physical damage per hit with AD from the same build (because crit keeps your DPS up despite the higher armor value), while healing from the physical damage, but not the magic damage.

As an AD scaling champion, it isn't all about raw damage dealt by the one item. Furthermore, my point was that building ANY MR counters the on-hit with relative ease unless you build Mpen or MR shred.

The whole point of my argument is that Devourer is supposed to be a really strong late game item (buy it early, scale throughout the match and then either carry or not fall off while building tanky), but the way it stacks now and the way people usually build champions, dealing mixed damage falls off very hard late game. Having less MR on the enemy means squat if 80% of your DPS is physical, and investing into MR shred to make that 20% of your DPS stronger is not near as efficient as prioritizing penetration of a single type and building damage of a single type.

To prove my point, look at ANY champion that is able to pull off a hybrid build; they either build only one damage type (like Kayle and Akali) or peak hard in the mid game before tapering off to relatively mediocre late game damage in comparison to other champions of the same role (like Corki).

You keep trying to talk about late game builds (like BotRK), but then are referencing the strength of mixed damage in the mid game (as in, before they buy MR and make BOTH your damage types fall of without corresponding penetration). Devourer is designed to scale into the late game, but it currently doesn't scale hard enough to make up for the fact that you cannot really prioritize mpen unless going for a full magic DPS build, which then suffers from lack of sustain, lack of crit scaling, and leaves your AD damage lacking because you have no penetration for that damage type (which means you have a ton of base AD that goes to relative waste).

TL;DR: Mixed damage falls off after mid game without hybrid penetration or prioritizing one damage type. Devourer is supposed to give champs hybrid damage, but needs all game to scale. By the point it should be helping most, its usefulness has mostly passed. Therefore, Devourer should scale faster in the early game to make up for not having mpen in an AD build, or not having sustain and crit scaling in an on-hit+mpen build.

The Yetii Rider3 votes

You act like Warrior would be just as beneficial on every jungler who builds Devourer, but it would not. Here are some junglers that love Devourer but don't really need Warrior: Xin Zhao Irelia Warwick Shyvana Jax Fizz

Basically, there are actually quite a few champions who have cool on-hit effects that are designed to scale poorly with armor penetration specifically because stacking lots of AD and armor pen on a champ who is already rewarded for auto attacking would be toxic. Warrior does not grant Attack Speed, so it does not help on-hit champs, and plenty of them (Fizz, Shyvana, Warwick, Irelia, Jax) have strong abilities that deal magic damage rather than physical, making the best part of Warrior (the 10 armor pen) less useful.

Devourer is fine as-is.

terkmc1 votes

Are you kidding me? A Xin Zhao with a Warrior is the god of war for the first 15-20 min of the game with just that item alone

junglerboy161 votes

Xin actually prefers Warrior unless Devourer is over the top broken. The extra AD and armor pen make his Q+passive turn him into a complete assassin until about 20 minutes in. Devourer, on the other hand, gives him minimal early damage (where he wants it most) and only helps out his late game damage a little bit more than Warrior. Devourer also has less synergy with his kit than Warrior, because warrior's arpen and AD scale with his passive, Q, and R, while Devourer just scales with his W and being able to right click forever.

As for the others? Yeah, they all do better with Devourer anyway.

Kazaashi1 votes

{quoted}

Xin actually prefers Warrior unless Devourer is over the top broken. The extra AD and armor pen make his Q+passive turn him into a complete assassin until about 20 minutes in. Devourer, on the other hand, gives him minimal early damage (where he wants it most) and only helps out his late game damage a little bit more than Warrior. Devourer also has less synergy with his kit than Warrior, because warrior's arpen and AD scale with his passive, Q, and R, while Devourer just scales with his W and being able to right click forever.

As for the others? Yeah, they all do better with Devourer anyway.

The 50% AS makes his knock up pop SOOOOOOOOO fast for ganks. I like that way better than a little bit of extra dmg.

Blue Collar Bear1 votes

At my elo, I even see Warwick's building Warrior because his ultimate scales off of flat AD.

The only champion from your list that I see reliably building Devourer is Fizz. The rest either build Warrior or Cinderhulk a large majority of the time, because their core damage items (in most cases a Trinity and BOTRK) are stronger than a Devourer.

You make a very good point that some champions are simply designed to not scale well with armor penetration, thus making the item less attractive. That is what the item is for after all. However, the popularity of the item is not necessarily the issue with the item. The problem, I believe, is that Devourer just needs a quality of life buff to improve the stacking mechanic. A large majority of games I play, the time I spend the most farming is before I actually get my Devourer. For example, there was a game yesterday where a Riven got a few kills before I could get my Devourer. For most of the game, my top jungle was unsafe and there was not much I could do, especially with all three outer turrets killed by 15m in.

I don't believe Devourer scales better than Warrior in most games. This is my issue with the item. I'm not sure if I was being clear about that.

Pluie Battante2 votes

[deleted]

Blue Collar Bear3 votes

I thought a lot around Madred's. The best case scenario that I could find is to have a capping mechanic similar to Seeker's Armguard. The item could be used for both Wit's End and Devourer. Both items have terrible build paths, which is a core reason why Wit's End, at least, doesn't get built. If there was an item that provided on-hit magic damage and attack speed that built into both items, the build path would be much better for both items.

I agree that Poacher's Knife needs to be more useful, but that is not what this discussion is about.

Hard4Hamsters3 votes

I read something about having an on-hit component to item 1043 that Riot has been looking into and testing due to the success of Bami's Cinder. It might be what you are looking for. It hasn't hit the PBE, but it might come to the game at some point.

Blue Collar Bear2 votes

That's almost exactly what I was looking for.

Do you know if it will have a stacking mechanic, or will it just be flat on-hit magic damage?

A source would be greatly appreciated!

Hard4Hamsters2 votes

http://www.surrenderat20.net/2015/03/red-post-collection-featured-game-modes.html

It's all the way at the bottom under the section titled "Thoughts on a Component item for Essence Reaver". It is only briefly mentioned. But apparently someone named Reinboom is working on it.

Blue Collar Bear2 votes

Ah. I read the entire article, because I hadn't read it yet.

I would love to see "baby versions" of items, such as Bami's Cinder. Taking the key reason why you're building an item (in the case of Sunfire, the immolate passive) and giving it a watered down version of the passive is more or less what I am suggesting.

Thanks for the article, friend.

Killstrado1 votes

item 3091

RAT IN GAME UwU 1 votes

no one uses devourer, i feel that having it stack beforehand upon buying the 450 item could help it out, but would not solve the problem, the issue with this game is, unless something is either OP, or the only viable option, no one will buy it, there are very few situational items that aren't in a build's meta...

the champions that jungle that you'd also use devourer on aren't popular either, they completely annihilated the fun of playing WW, and no one REALLY jungles Yi often. you wouldn't use devourer on VI, J4, Nidalee, Nautilus, Sejuani, Lee Sin, KhaZix...etc

you WOULD use it on Tryndamere, Udyr, Yi, Warwick, etc...none of which of these are very popular in the meta, and when you make an item bring them back into the meta, it's broken, OP and no one enjoys it...so i think maybe stacking devourer earlier would be helpful, but it won't make a comeback

Blue Collar Bear3 votes

I agree that no one uses Devourer. I've never come across another player who uses it.

What do you think would solve the problem?

Why do you think that a quality of life buff would break the game?

PapaShongo531 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fluffysaurus Rex,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KdFE3d24,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2015-03-24T02:53:02.330+0000)

I agree that no one uses Devourer. I've never come across another player who uses it.

What do you think would solve the problem?

Why do you think that a quality of life buff would break the game?

I use this item on my Shaco. I've been on a Heimerdinger kick lately so not a lot of Shaco games this season compared to my previous 2 seasons of baout 600-700 games, but I've still played him.

I prefer Devourer over Warrior in a lot of my games, especially now with the popularity of tanks. It works absolutley amazing at soloing Dragon and duoing Baron. With Devourer I actually do 50% or more magic damage, so I take Hybrid Penetration marks. Devourer + Randuins + BoRK/Wit's End and you have a Shaco who can dual tanks and kill ADC's, especially with Skirmishers.

I will completely agree with you though that if you fall behind you won't get a lot of stacks, but it is still a good item for AA heavy junglers.

LXII1 votes

Devourer is for hard farming junglers, just like the lantern was, it's only going to be useful on a handful of champs (but it's SUPER useful on those select ones). I build one on Fizz and I usually get up to at least 50 stacks since it's super easy to farm champs and monsters alike with him. Yi is another that benefits greatly from it.

Blue Collar Bear3 votes

It was only meant for farming junglers, but even those junglers don't build it anymore. Most players I see that are playing champions that could build it will choose Cinderhulk or Warrior over it.

Miku Lv991 votes

Problem is, early and mid game matter too much now. Especially with the new increase minion health, games often do not last quite as long now. And that's very significant for devourer. Since Warrior is so much stronger early, it likely leads to being able to snowball (or deny them from snowballing) to be stronger than you'd be with devourer until the extremely late game, which is almost never reached now. I kinda felt like devourer was fine but now with the increase minion health I think it's almost useless on almost everybody.

Blue Collar Bear1 votes

How do you think the increased minion health affected Devourer and the length of games?

Can you also link me the patch notes where they did increase the minion health? I'm having a hard time finding it.

Rhealiza1 votes

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/patch/patch-55-notes

Minion Health under Global Summoner's Rift Changes.

Blue Collar Bear1 votes

Thanks!

I'm still confused as to how this makes the early / mid game matter more.

GundayMonday1 votes

Why not plan around a devourer jungler? Always going to be difficult to coordinate in solo queue, but in ranked 5s you can coordinate a stall comp that lets the jungler farm and push towards that late game outscale.

Champs like Ziggs Xerath Caitlyn Sivir Lux Malzahar with good wave clear can let a Warwick MasterYi Shyvana jungler farm devourer without fear of towers going down. Tough to make it work otherwise if your team is floundering without jungle presence.

Blue Collar Bear1 votes

That seems like a great strategy, and I'll have to try it out sometime.

Unfortunately, this kind of coordination is rare in solo queue.

GundayMonday1 votes

Yeah I hear you. But if you're ever last pick as a jungler and notice that your lanes are all super safe with good waveclear, THEN that's when you grab your devourer without fear.

I actually like your suggestion earlier in the thread to make it build out of an attack speed item with a stacking mechanic like item 3191. Makes it so you don't waste any early stacks as you race to complete the enchantment!

Blue Collar Bear1 votes

Yeah, that's the idea. From what another user suggested, there's an idea in the works. It's not necessarily for Devourer, but it would be interesting to see how they use it.

I would love to see Madred's Razors make a comeback. It could work just like Seeker's Armguard, and it would be a nice item to sit on that gives you a lot of nice stats.

Celeste Benal1 votes

WW is still goo dbecause of his insane sustain. Shyv has good AoE clear speed because of her burnout and Q CD reductions. But her ganks are... not very desirable. Yi is so weak early that he is almost impossible to jungle with anymore. I've tried it a couple times and its just abysmal, even with pots and his W.

GundayMonday1 votes

Well, no offense but you might be playing them wrong?

Every one of those champs can solo dragon at level 3. Their early clear is pretty strong too (are you running attack speed runes and 21 offense?). Their ganks are pretty terrible (until WW hits 6), but you don't play them for ganks. You play them for objective control. If the enemy team mis-steps, you take a tower (or two), you take dragon, you take baron. You force objectives and make the enemy come to you when you have the advantage.

Or split push to death since you can generally 1v1 anyone if ahead or even.

My $0.02.

Incognonymous1 votes

Feral Flare was infinitely more useful because of its health on hit passive. I really don't see why Riot both nerfed Jungle Item sustain and buffed the jungle mobs. Doesn't make sense. That being said, Devourer is easily the strongest item on the right champ, in the right hands. The last couple of times I built it I reached a cool 60 stacks in ~30 minutes, and one game I even got to ~105 with Volibear. That type of scaling isn't seen with Magus or Warrior.

Devourer + Wit's End + Sunfire is an insanely powerful, inexpensive item combination that gives health, armor, MR, and tons of magic damage.

Blue Collar Bear1 votes

It isn't seen, but I think people misjudge how far bonus AD can go.

FF was very useful for that health on hit. It's something I've seen that Riot has phased out of the game, as Doran's Blade was the only other item supporting it. I miss it dearly, because I could stack attack speed in the jungle and it was more viable. However, I'm not sure if that should be reintroduced to the game, because it would make junglers without built in sustain just as viable as those who do have it. There's a reason nobody is playing Master Yi jungle anymore, and the lack of sustain in the jungle items is one of the reasons.

That combo is something that I used to use on Braum jungle in s4. It was insanely funny, because I could solo carries as a support.

IcyPepper1 votes

It's not fun? I build it on Soraka all the time

Linna Excel1 votes

Devourer is the least popular of the enchantments, and it is not fun to build over the other jungle enchantments.

I think this is partly because of the jungle meta. On hit junglers and those that need AS love devourer. How many popular junglers are on-hit or scale off of AS? Not many ATM. Also you have to worry about AFK farmers which really put your team behind. When I'm jungling and get this enchantment, I almost always need to babysit someone which I think is the biggest flaw of it. Or my laners steal jungle creeps.

If I were to fix devourer, I'd let cannon minions (in lane) add stacks. This would encourage junglers to leave the jungle and show up in lane a little, if only for the tax.

Blue Collar Bear1 votes

You should read Junglerboy16's response further down below! It has a very good solution that would encourage a play style that benefits everyone on the team.

As to it not being popular because on-hit junglers are not in the meta, Rengar is certainly very popular. Back in s4, it was very popular to build him Feral Flare into full tank. It's essentially the same principle. Xin Zhao and Volibear aren't as popular, but they're certainly making a resurgence with Cinderhulk. I used to used a similar build on them.

Celeste Benal1 votes

Second option is already in the game for mages in the form of item 3070 , and I can't think of anyone that has recently said that line of items is OP. So I can't see any reason why the second option couldn't be implemented.

But I doubt we'll see the return of Feral Flare-like stacking any time soon. Personally, I never felt it as OP. But then again, I'm not good. So, yeah.

Blue Collar Bear1 votes

Don't underrate yourself! If you're interested in researching the game and discussing niche parts of it, you're already ahead of those who don't!

I think the stacking mechanic of Tear of the Goddess would be interesting to explore. Anytime you use an ability, it gives extra mana. However, you have to give mana to get mana. A post further on down suggests a conservation mechanic similar to the old Spirit Stone items. The two are similar, don't you think?

What kind of mechanic do you think would allow for players to use Devourer in a rewarding way that scales well?

JTTCOTE1 votes

You mention you've never seen someone buy devourer (your 5th comment on the first page) and that even farming junglers don't build it anymore (6th down the first page) - it is pretty much staple on Kayle jungle, since she doesn't do AD anyway so Warrior's ARpen doesn't matter and most of her DPS comes from pure attack speed to get the 60 bonus damage on rank 5 E off more often.

Devourer on Yi is also significantly better than Warrior if he's able to farm to 6 in peace, e.g. if his lanes have favored matchups, which happens more often than you might think.

It's also standard on Shyvana as someone that needs attack speed to keep ult up, and who spends a lot of time farming.

IMO It's an item that is situationally useful, and that's fine. Maw of Malmortius, Nashor's, Runaan's and Zz'rot are in the same category: only a couple champions should be buying them but those that do use them well do great with them.

Blue Collar Bear1 votes

I agree with part of what you're saying. A good friend of mine has gone out of his way to find high elo players who use Devourer, but we're coming up a bit short handed. It's not that I haven't seen people build Devourer, but players choose to build Warrior or Cinderhulk over Devourer in most cases due to the item being a snowball item rather than a scaling item.

Champions that need an early, cost efficient item purely for attack speed that benefit more from the attack speed and on-hit magic damage over the other three items are far and few between. I rarely even see Yi build Devourer, as Warrior is better in most cases. Shyvana is one of the few champions I see that build it consistently.

There are many champions that Devourer is certainly viable on, but it won't be chosen because the scaling is a total gamble unless you're snowballing.

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