Next Champion? Shyvana or Zyra?

TonyTonyMordecai·Nov 4, 2014·2 votes·2,826 views

Hey Guys,

After hearing the responses to my earlier posts, I have narrowed down my decision to 2 champs:

Shyvana and Zyra

I know the difference between gameplay and roles are night and day, but the responses have told me that Zyra is a reliable support with decent CC, as well as a strong mid-laner, and Shyvana is in a good place with the current meta and jungle situation, and probably will stay that way for a while. All I want is your opinion in which champ you think is the better choice of the two. Also, please vote in the poll. It helps me make a decision based on what people will recommend overall, as well as reasoning.

Thanks!

34 Comments

RiotRiot 10YearSantaNov 4, 20144 votes

I've noticed a trend where support Zyras will somehow end up having huge damage dealt to champions at end-game despite not having a lot of damage items. That's why I voted for Zyra. You can support your team and still end up with a lot of damage out of nowhere (not really nowhere, a lot of it comes from the plants!). I may be biased because I like damage-dealing supports though...

Good luck with whatever you choose!

TonyTonyMordecaiNov 5, 20141 votes

I like Zyra for her plants(Heimerdinger main), but I don't know how far away people can stand to not get attacked by her plants(mostly the ranged ones). Maybe add a range circle like you did for Heimerdinger's turrets? That range circle helped me so much with turret placement and playing ring-around-the-rosie within my circle of all three turrets laid in the mid lane. The only thing I don't like about her, is that she seems to fragile in the beginning, and she has mana issues... But the mana problem might be my problem since I spam abilities too much :/ (I mean, I AM a Heimerdinger enthusiast) Mana-less Support Champion in the future... Maybe? And nice job with Kalista :D She looks badass. How do you do her passive? Is it a right-click or a left-click?

OnegarionNov 5, 20141 votes

Not being much of a zyra player, but is all that damage meaningful? Outside the obvious that you are hurting the enemy champs is it really doing a lot for your team as a whole or is it just like junk damage done that makes it seem very high? Just kind of always wondered since she doesn't have to build a lot of damage to have a high damage to champs number.

TonyTonyMordecaiNov 5, 20141 votes

It's great if she's a support, because then she will still be viable in versing the opposing ADC and Support even if she only has a Frost Queen and a Sightstone.

Commit SudokuNov 4, 20142 votes

Hard to say that any jungler will be viable for a while because preseaon changes will have a huge impact on junglers

TonyTonyMordecaiNov 4, 20141 votes

We can still assume that most current meta junglers will probably stay as junglers in the new meta. But yes, it is hard to say if some will be still viable after the new SR and Jungle Items come into play.

JamnonNov 4, 20141 votes

I'm just waiting for Nunu to dominate. #shrug

Tentacle LoveNov 4, 20142 votes

Zyra's free this week. easy answer.

TonyTonyMordecaiNov 4, 20141 votes

Thanks. But that doesnt help with anything

JamnonNov 4, 20141 votes

Try her out for free, see how you like her! Get item 2049 and item 3092 .

TonyTonyMordecaiNov 5, 20141 votes

I like Zyra, only because I can summon plants to do fighting as well(Heimerdinger main, right here) But I don't like how I don't know what the plant's range is, and the fact that I am a spell spammer, especially in the early game. Manaless Support in the future? Maybe?

JamnonNov 5, 20141 votes

Practice a bit, see if she's worth buying before making the choice of what you want to invest in. Just like you would a car: drive it around, see how it handles, can I see myself driving this car?

Linna ExcelNov 4, 20141 votes

I like both, however Shyv is more team dependent.

TonyTonyMordecaiNov 5, 20141 votes

How come? Why is Shyvana team dependent?

JamnonNov 5, 20141 votes

Because she (according to Mobafire):

•Lacks in CC and utility •Mediocre mobility and sticking power •Very kiteable •Easy to deny •doesn't scale well with many stats •cannot be played passively •Lacks innate health sustain

She struggles against: Rumble (she doesnt have nearly enough mobility or poke) and Teemo hard counters her:

An absolute nightmare of a lane. Before level 6 shyvana can do absolutely nothing but farm what she can and hope for effective ganks. Even post 6 shyvana can't really all in teemo effectively as she'll inevitably be led into shrooms. All you can really hope to do is try to freeze the wave near your tower to make teemo play a little more passive or just clear the waves as they come with Burnout and spend the rest of the time poaching jungle camps or roaming in general.

TonyTonyMordecaiNov 5, 20141 votes

That makes sense. I did notice that Shyvana is kind of lacking in any sort of CC or anything past "I'M DEALING DAMAGE!!! INCOMING DRAGON CAUSE I'M POST-6!!! RAAAAWR!!!!" And I can't really effectively trade if all I can do is walk up to them, hope they don't walk away, punch them, and me walk back to tower cause I'm half-health BECAUSE they decided to punch back. I just haven't seen Zyra in many games(normals and ranked). Does that mean she's not viable for the current meta? Or is this the same treatment that Udyr got when he got nerfed? Can't believe stupid Satan counters ancient yordles AND dragons...

DocRedgraveNov 5, 20143 votes

That makes sense. I did notice that Shyvana is kind of lacking in any sort of CC or anything past "I'M DEALING DAMAGE!!! INCOMING DRAGON CAUSE I'M POST-6!!! RAAAAWR!!!!" And I can't really effectively trade if all I can do is walk up to them, hope they don't walk away, punch them, and me walk back to tower cause I'm half-health BECAUSE they decided to punch back. I just haven't seen Zyra in many games(normals and ranked). Does that mean she's not viable for the current meta? Or is this the same treatment that Udyr got when he got nerfed? Can't believe stupid Satan counters ancient yordles AND dragons...

As a top Shyvana main, I can add some insight. Shyvana can only win trades (let alone her lane) if she's able to damage her target with her W which instantly wins you a trade if you succed. Any champion that can trade outside of Shyv's W has a huge advantage (with some exceptions such as Gnar). On Zyra's low pick rate, the reason being is that currently burst-heavy AP mids are more popular than DPS mids like Zyra. Simply put, she's easily outdamaged during the early game by a lot of mid laners. Thanks to her CC she's often picked as a support instead. Some stubborn/arrogant players have gone so far as to claim Zyra mid is a troll pick and that she's barely viable as a support.

TonyTonyMordecaiNov 5, 20141 votes

Aaah. Ok. Is Shyvana a DPS tank? Because I know her one skill ("W"?) is an aura type thing that deals damage and gives her a movement speed buff for the duration. What I like most is that her Q(I think) can go through minions. I don't like it when minions block my skillshots. Also, what items would be best for Shyvana? I'm only good with building damage, and I don't need to think about Yasuo's build... Cause I like building AS! And I think it's kind of an easy build to remember with him.

DocRedgraveNov 5, 20143 votes

Shyvana's Q is Twin Bite, an autoattack reset. What you're thinking of is her E, Flame Breath. And yes, Shyvana would be considered a DPS tank. My usual full build for her is: item 3111 item 3153 item 3068 item 3091 item 3083 item 3102 . Blade of the Ruined King and Sunfire Cape are arguably core items on Shyvana. I'd suggest starting Sunfire Cape if you're behind against an AD top. If you're ahead go for BorK. If you plan to deviate from what i'm building, just remember that health, attack speed, and armor are the three best stats for Shyvana. Max W first if you can abuse it in trades against your enemy. If not, max E over W. Most people max Q last. Personally, my skill order is R>W>Q>E. See what works best for you.

TonyTonyMordecaiNov 5, 20141 votes

Ok. Thanks! I kind of want to be in the Top lane because I enjoy having my autos actually do damage, but I feel like I also burn through mana really quickly if I try to harass too much. The only time this doesn't really happen is when I play as Heimerdinger, but I have improved with conserving my mana... Mana less champions are such a blessing :D I'll have to try Shyvana, because I want to at least try building a Champion as a tank, but maybe if I feel like Zyra won't really be a good fit in my roster, I will probably go with Shyvana. I've gotten too used to Aatrox, Gnar, Rumble, Vladimir, Zac, and Yasuo to feel at home with using mana :/

DocRedgraveNov 6, 20142 votes

Probably one of the biggest flaws I have seen in low elo players is that they can't regulate the amount of mana they have when trading in lane. I once met a Syndra who would literally use her Q at every opportunity. I thrashed her hard as a result. If you want a tip on how to manage mana, try to keep your mana pool from sinking past halfway when in lane. This allows you to often have enough mana to use your escapes in order to avoid a gank, a bad trade, or simply all-in a target.

TonyTonyMordecaiNov 6, 20141 votes

Yep. That basically describes me. I just try to "harass" the other guy in lane, and that just turns into me wasting mana cause my abilities don't really do damage yet. I guess this is why I can ADC better than being in the Mid Lane... Auto Attacks hurt Thanks for your help! I'll keep an eye on where my mana is at all times next time I go in the mid lane!

DocRedgraveNov 6, 20142 votes

You can also buy Chalice of Harmony to increase your mana regeneration, but that's really only for mid lane mages. Anyway, good luck to you with that!

TonyTonyMordecaiNov 6, 20141 votes

Will do! :) Thanks a bunch!

WeGNov 5, 20141 votes

I had to login to reply to this- Any teemo any time against my shyvana top lane, I'll show you hard countered. This shit made me giggle.

JamnonNov 5, 20141 votes

Teach me your ways, master jedi.

TonyTonyMordecaiNov 6, 20141 votes

MUST SHOW ME O_O Teemo

Linna ExcelNov 5, 20142 votes

Jamnon basically summed it up, but there was a thread over on ROG that talked about it a little more.

The short version is she isn't bursty, no gapcloser, can't gank will in the jungle (needs to powerfarm), and the lack of CC really hurts her.

JustBoneBrookNov 5, 20141 votes

In fact Shyvana start to becaume a bit weak because to the nerf on her and the buff on other top lane For exemple her win rate = 44% but well yah it almost 50% but she have the 4 badess win rate in league of legend may be because she have to so much damage for her lack of any cc (yah i know dragon form do knock back ...) Olaf got a slow every 4 sec Shen got a taunt Malphite got a global knock up Chogath same there JarvanIV same there + a wall Renekton Stun MonkeyKing global knock up ETC...

TonyTonyMordecaiNov 5, 20141 votes

I don't really count Wukong's Ult as a global knock up XD But I get what you're saying. When every other top layer has things that help in trades and even late game, other than the dragon's knock back, it doesn't seem too helpful to the rest of the team when the only ones who have CC are the Support, maybe the Mid, and maybe the ADC... and by the time they come for help it's probably too late.

JustBoneBrookNov 5, 20141 votes

I don't really count Wukong's Ult as a global knock up XD But I get what you're saying. When every other top layer has things that help in trades and even late game, other than the dragon's knock back, it doesn't seem too helpful to the rest of the team when the only ones who have CC are the Support, maybe the Mid, and maybe the ADC... and by the time they come for help it's probably too late.

Yah thas it :D at lest she got a nice tanky passif but that all

Tentacle LoveNov 5, 20141 votes

I'm not 30 yet, but I can tell you that as Zyra support, I go for the coin item 3301 item 3096 item 3069 for the edge in mobility and I play agressive denial of gold for enemy carries. As soon as Zyra hits level 2, you have the ability to throw a turret down on the other side of the minions, forcing MANY champs to back off or trade poorly.

If you hit 6 before they do (because you've gotten the kill or assist), then it might be over for them because your ult just destroys teams that lack mobility. they're going to lose a turret.

On the other hand, if your team is behind, you have unbelievable poke range and harassment tools. Yesterday in Hexakill when I and a carry were dominating a lane against 4, we saw that the bottom lane was feeding hard. despite pushing to turret without losing any ground, it was now 2 to 18 (and that wasn't my worst game believe it or not). I did my best to deny shrines and tried to come in and help (but you can't do anything if your allies charge right past your plants and chase right into the turrets). I called out in /all for the enemy team to come and end it once it got to 5 and 80, and showed them just how obnoxious Zyra can be under turret support. by the end of the game, I, as a support character, had 6 kills, each of them solo 100%-0 against their hardest fed champs. Zyra harasses strong enough that even the most tanky champs question whether they can dive for it.

TonyTonyMordecaiNov 6, 20141 votes

Alright guys...

After hearing all the responses...

I have decided that my next champion to join my roster is...

Teemo Teemo

Just Kidding. I already have Satan.

But honestly, I am pretty half-and-half on this one :/ I am going to have to keep testing out Zyra, but if I decide that the Support Role isn't one that I want to pursue, then the ultimate choice would be to get Shyvana.

Thank you to all who left a response, voted in the poll, and answered my questions. I greatly appreciated the assistance in answering the question that many of us have encountered over our career to level 30, and beyond.

See You Guys On The Rift! :D summoner 4