Elise Buffs

TonyTonyMordecai·Nov 28, 2014·10 votes·1,621 views

Hello Community,

I'm sure we've been complaining about this for a LONG time now, but Elise needs more power. Even after Lee Sin's nerfs, he's STILL strong, and has ways of jumping around the battle to get away, and can build somewhat tanky, and he can still deal decent damage. I played as Elise in the jungle in an intermediate bot match, and I noticed that Elise sucks. I built her to be an AD tank spider because she was just so weak, I didn't want to build AP.

So.....

If You Want Her To Be Buffed....

Vote In The Poll! Get This Thread Noticed By Riot! +1 This Thread! Comment On Areas Where She Needs Improvement!

Thanks In Advance!

22 Comments

Fed by Snu SnuJan 17, 20152 votes

Even though I didn't like the Elise fotm era, I'm obliged to defend everything weak, otherwise I'd just be a fotm hypocrite, so, yes.

I played with an Elise on my team some time ago. I almost felt bad for the guy.

TonyTonyMordecaiJan 17, 20151 votes

At the same time, I can give credit to people who are able to be good with Elise, almost consistently. But at the same time, if anyone gets fed and also gets ahead of their laner(s), then Elise will have some troubles, because of the fact that Elise depends on items to survive and continue to live in the jungle, as well as do good with her ganks.

PerishSoftlyNov 28, 20141 votes

I feel like Elise as she is can either lose her shapeshifter bit, or lose her spider person identity or both. Her current utility and the way her damage works makes her a nightmare to hold together properly without becoming either useless or monstrous. One problem she has is that she has skills well tuned for an assassin but insufficent range to use them safely, so she builds tanky.

TonyTonyMordecaiNov 29, 20141 votes

Yeah, I feel like she needs to be tanky to even be viable, but she isn't an assassin. Nor does she have CC(except her cocoon, but sadly a level 1 Morgana has a more useful snare than a fed Elise) Her cocoon's missile width is so narrow a sniper at point blank range couldn't land it.

HupsisNov 29, 20141 votes

Buff her forms but add 4 second cast time to her transformation. Make her able to function in either of her forms without having to rely on the other form. Let the player choose which way to play her.

Human form - bursty poke mage with cc Spider form - sustained damage assassin with escape mechanics

I dunno. That's just how I imagined Elise when I first heard of her.

TonyTonyMordecaiNov 29, 20141 votes

Yeah, I agree with you. I always thought her spider form was the assassin form, kind of like how Nidalee has always been. (In fact she's good in both her forms)

DreadlocksJan 17, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Buff her forms but add 4 second cast time to her transformation. Make her able to function in either of her forms without having to rely on the other form. Let the player choose which way to play her.

Human form - bursty poke mage with cc Spider form - sustained damage assassin with escape mechanics

I dunno. That's just how I imagined Elise when I first heard of her.

This doesn't even make sense.. "bursty poke mage and Sustained damage assassin? wtf?********

HupsisJan 17, 20151 votes

I didn't mean that the poke itself would be bursty or that the spider form should deal its assassination through sustained damage (or w/e you thought). You wear down the opponent with either poke or sustained damage and then burst/assassinate them.

Examples: Bursty poke mage - Karma, Annie, Zyra, Lux, etc. Sustained damage assassin - current Elise (spider form), Evelynn, Rengar

DreadlocksJan 18, 20151 votes

She just needs more damage in general if you ask me. She doesnt get rewarded enough for building AP/Damage items and even if she builds tank shes a shitty one at that.

Edit: I think it would be cool if she had some kind of DOT to her spells, and maybe grievous wounds. Idk when i think of a spider bite i dont see it going away right away but a rather long annoying and painful if its a big enuf spider :) the Venom she bites with should infect the target.

WindfallenNov 29, 20141 votes

She's in an all right spot. I blame her winrates on her skillcap. Whenever I spectate pro games with an elise, which is rare.... they really know how to use her! Her builds are VERY flexible. AP assassin, AP bruiser, Tank with pen, and supporty items can work with her too.

She is not forgiving when played incorrectly. Elise can be so unpredictable sometimes, and her low pickrate only adds to the mystery that is playing against Elise. I think it's funny how I can start a teamfight with her, do a bunch of damage, rappel until the time limit is almost up and DUNK the carry sitting in the back!

Try playing her in lane. I think she's pretty awesome there.... and while certain champs seem to have an advantage if you pick the spider into them, she's very good against strong picks that have a broad range of 'easy' lanes. She's good against Lee and Fizz, nuff said. While ganking is a lot about pulling your combo off really fast, laning with elise is different. "Pull the strings and watch them dance"

I want to try her out in the new jungle against players. She did EXCELLENT in the custom game i had earlier :D

I will say, that her rappel could use some love. If you try to use it, just before you're about to come down by default.... sometimes your target won't register, even if you click spam that target. I hate that shizz! Need some clarity and consistency up in here!

TonyTonyMordecaiNov 29, 20143 votes

I would say that as well, but I just feel like Elise has had too many nerfs to really stay relevant anymore. I will try her in lane, because laning is different from jungling. Get back to me about playing in PvP with Elise in the new jungle, because if that goes well, then that just means I need to become more acquainted with her controlled transformation.

WindfallenNov 29, 20141 votes

It's because her ganks take some coordination on yours and your teammates part. She's not like the other junglers, where they come into lane and wreak havoc...whether it be blowing CDS or actually getting kills, elise is rather easy to kite and strafing makes it near impossible for even good players to land cocoon. I've honestly never been good with ganking as elise, all my success has come from laning. That being said, I never actually played her before that big patch that gutted a lot of things from her kit. I know she was monstrous to play against though, that's for sure! While the nerfs to her numbers feel deserved, I think that a lot of mechanical tweaks to her kit was what really mattered. Slower travel time on human form W, width nerf to cocoon (Indeed, this is mainly what makes her so hard), and my least favorite.... the range on rappel. She NEEDED compensation for these, because they absolutely altered the way her mechanics were originally intended to work. I can deal with cocoon having such a high skillcap as I think this is what seperates a good Elise from an 'okay' Elise. However, I believe that rappel needs to be looked at. Currently, rappel is an escape/dueling tool rather than a chase tool since it's range is so meh and the animation takes so damn long!

I feel indifferent to to a numbers buff, but if they changed the way playes interact with rappel for the better.... I'd be very happy. Though, her mana costs are quite high. I think if Elise was just released, they probably wouldn't have even given her a mana bar. Another thing to note, is how amazingly even matched I felt as Elise vs Gnar in lane. The only thing that differed them from eachother, was that gnar gets to be tanky without itemizing for it AND he has more cc, which is easy land, that can be landed on multiple targets. I think if Riot took a close look at Gnar and then Elise, they would see no reason not to compensate Elise for the nerfs she recieved.

TonyTonyMordecaiNov 29, 20141 votes

I see what you mean with the comparisons on what Riot can take from Gnar and kind of transfer that to some of the things that Elise has. The cocoon width nerf was dumb, because you can still land Morgana's snare super easily. If Elise was manaless, then I think that Elise could be more of the spider champion she was meant to be. Like have the spider form have the assassin burst combo kit, and the human form be the poke mage. And I just thought of this now, but Elise's human Q should have a slow, and maybe an initial damage, then a DoT effect, because she is spitting acid.

WindfallenNov 30, 20141 votes

Well, spider form Q has an execute so it is pretty much your assassination tool. However, this is not a perfect world and sometimes you have to go back into human form to finish someone off with your bonus range.

Human form q is powerful, because it is the opposite of an execute. It does more damage the more HP the target currently has. I like everything about Elise's kit as it is, except rappel feels so useless/hard to make it work. Maybe I just suck at it, Idk. But I can't never descend on anyone who just started walking away from melee range or close to that.

My point with Gnar, is that the balance and creation teams don't seem to have any problems with loading a kit anymore. I'm all for more buffs on existing champs rather than nerfing new champs.

TonyTonyMordecaiNov 30, 20141 votes

I see what you mean. Yeah, the rappel animation for starting it is fine, but the exit on rappel is so long that by the time you land it's too late and they're already out of range. They should change rappel to be more instant, like how Pantheon sort of instantly appears when he lands at his ult's location. Do you feel that Elise's movement speed is too low? Or is it in the right spot? I feel like Elise needs the movement speed items(besides boots) to make up for the rest of her lack of mobility. Also, off topic, but did you do the PvP game with Elise jungle yet? You said you still had to try it with real people in the new jungle.

WindfallenNov 30, 20141 votes

Also, off topic, but did you do the PvP game with Elise jungle yet? You said you still had to try it with real people in the new jungle.

Yes. She's doing really well and it's exciting! A lot of problems I have with rappel, I've just learned is because I have quickcast turned off. I actually prefer targeted casting in most cases, but for elise I just have to make the exception.

I found this video it has a lot of useful current info :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwSmovRuxcs

TonyTonyMordecaiNov 30, 20141 votes

Nice. Yeah, I actually started having smartcast on because of Syndra, actually, and it became the default method of how my abilties have been casted ever since. Thanks for the video, it was really helpful :)

RaxistaichoDec 3, 20141 votes

On paper her movement speed is fine, but it somehow feels like she moves slowly. She's about average in human form, and among the speedier ones in spider.

Probably she feels slow because her skill range is kinda short.

TonyTonyMordecaiDec 3, 20141 votes

Yeah, I think that some skill range needs to be increased, like her spider Q, because it basically requires you to be standing right next to them in order to jump to them.

Penguin EclipseNov 29, 20141 votes

She's in an all right spot. I blame her winrates on her skillcap. Whenever I spectate pro games with an elise, which is rare.... they really know how to use her! Her builds are VERY flexible. AP assassin, AP bruiser, Tank with pen, and supporty items can work with her too.

She's still pretty good (or was prior to the new jungle) in 5v5 teams. But in Solo Q she really seems to suffer.

I understand where you are coming from in regards to her winrate/skillcap. But even pros don't seem to do all that well with her in Solo Q.

TonyTonyMordecaiNov 29, 20141 votes

I guess it's just a Solo Q problem where sometimes people don't pay attention, or sometimes there isn't enough coordination for ganks that require more assistance than Lee Sin just jumping in and kicking your head off.

RaxistaichoDec 4, 20141 votes

It's just a Solo Q problem. She has a good early game but she doesn't scale well so she mostly becomes a supporting jungler in the later game, and in Solo Q you can't trust your teams to carry you to victory.