How do you carry games as

3lue·Jan 7, 2015·1 votes·1,899 views

a Tank? Especially 4v5 or 3v5 and specifically in Silver and how do you manage to win after doing your best to peel and somewhat kill the majority of the enemies off your ADC?

Shen players , or tank players in general, how can I win 4 v 5 with a toxic jungle and a not-so-great ADC? I guess there's only so much you can do and some games can't be won?

Again, I roamed as best I could after ending laning phase 5-0, used both my ult and tele to help others win their lanes, helping my team to 5 dragons, but somehow we still lost even though I felt there was a chance in winning even though vlad was afk

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/1688998039/206014383?tab=overview

15 Comments

Dingding123Jan 7, 20152 votes

You don't. If you can consider yourself a tank than you are nothing more than a potato with essentially 5 seconds to live in a teamfight, and your kit can probably distract the rest of the enemy team for about half of that as well so I guess they have that going for them.

No one only wants tank items anymore. No one is designed around keeping others alive except for supports who don't have enough money for tank items anyway. Health as a stat needs to be reworked.

MajidesukaJan 7, 20151 votes

Big variable in 4v5s is time is not on your side. Even with a relatively large lead, what you bring to a fight as a team is severely limited to what the enemy can bring in return. In this case, I recommend forcing your team to push and end a game as soon as possible. Second opinion is the ability to transition to different situations with a cool and open mind and stay calm doing so. However, it's like you said, there are so much one person can do and some games are not meant to be won, but that doesn't mean you can prove the general statement wrong.

Keep that fighting spirit up!

3lueJan 7, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Big variable in 4v5s is time is not on your side. Even with a relatively large lead, what you bring to a fight as a team is severely limited to what the enemy can bring in return. In this case, I recommend forcing your team to push and end a game as soon as possible. Second opinion is the ability to transition to different situations with a cool and open mind and stay calm doing so. However, it's like you said, there are so much one person can do and some games are not meant to be won, but that doesn't mean you can prove the general statement wrong.

Keep that fighting spirit up!

Thanks for your positivity! Yeah most of the time people do not listen + I'm chat banned (trying to be a better team player and less toxic) so usually when theyre toxic and do not listen I just focus on my gameplay rather than being the shot caller (limited in chat anyways)

coppinslingerJan 7, 20151 votes

Tanks can't carry soloQ hard unless they have strong-pick potential or can bring something other to the team than tank-stats or minor-utility in teamfights.

I can only think of maybe 2 tanks that carry in soloQ (and both are junglers) :

Amumu - Has huge potential to create picks and brings "teamfight utility" to a whole new level. Can Solo-win fights with his CC and decent AoE damage.

Rammus - Massive gank-pressure early on and transitions to a hyper-tank mid-to-late game. Good pick potential and great CC (and underrated AoE damage or 1v1 vs. AD champs)

Malphite maybe has the potential to carry for similar reasons as Amumu, but I think his damage is worse and his lane-phase as a top or jungler is pretty bad, so your ability to reach that late-game teamfight winning point is lessened (and again, you still rely on your team to do damage afterwards).

Other tanks are good but don't really have to potential to carry. If you don't bring damage or massive utility/play-making potential to the table, then you are reliant on your team to win.

I'd suggest playing tanky-bruiser instead if that's your style: JarvanIV Nasus Singed

3lueJan 7, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Tanks can't carry soloQ hard unless they have strong-pick potential or can bring something other to the team than tank-stats or minor-utility in teamfights.

I can only think of maybe 2 tanks that carry in soloQ (and both are junglers) :

- Has huge potential to create picks and brings "teamfight utility" to a whole new level. Can Solo-win fights with his CC and decent AoE damage.

- Massive gank-pressure early on and transitions to a hyper-tank mid-to-late game. Good pick potential and great CC (and underrated AoE damage or 1v1 vs. AD champs)

Malphite maybe has the potential to carry for similar reasons as Amumu, but I think his damage is worse and his lane-phase as a top or jungler is pretty bad, so your ability to reach that late-game teamfight winning point is lessened (and again, you still rely on your team to do damage afterwards).

Other tanks are good but don't really have to potential to carry. If you don't bring damage or massive utility/play-making potential to the table, then you are reliant on your team to win.

I'd suggest playing tanky-bruiser instead if that's your style:

I'm transitioning into maining Top/Jungle more whenever I am not able to Yasuo (my main - can top/mid with him). I'm gonna try out j4 top seems like a good suggestion. With Nasus its usually hard for me to win because not only am I a not-so-good Nasus, I always get camped with him. What other bruisers would be good to play/use in your opinion? I can play these champions top: Gnar Irelia JarvanIV Jax Jayce Azir Akali Kassadin Kennen LeeSin Lissandra Malphite Maokai Rengar Renekton Riven Shen MonkeyKing XinZhao Yasuo . Which of them would you recommend playing and which ones should I try to stay away from?

Thanks for your reply, very helpful.

coppinslingerJan 7, 20151 votes

I'd recommend these champs for soloQ:

Gnar - The OP of top-lane currently. A lane-bully AND a great team-fight. Takes a while to get the ropes of him, but when you do, you're unstoppable and have limited weaknesses.

Irelia - Decent lane-phase after level 3 or so and has awesome out-play potential. Good duelist with a great mid-game. Abuse the time when you just have your triforce as this is when you are strongest in the game.

Jax - Similar to Irelia but trades a slightly weaker mid-game for a BEAST late.

JarvanIV - Best as a pocket pick to play against weak-laners OR ranged top-laners. Has really high lvl 2-6 damage and his great gap-closer means he poops on champs like Teemo and Ryze . Transitions to utility-bruiser in the mid and late game.

I'd play those champs in soloQ for top. I'd stay away from Yasuo though because he honestly is kinda stupid squish for top-lane. Doesn't bring much to the table if you have a squishy APC and ADC. No offense to your main mate :P

3lueJan 7, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I'd recommend these champs for soloQ:

- The OP of top-lane currently. A lane-bully AND a great team-fight. Takes a while to get the ropes of him, but when you do, you're unstoppable and have limited weaknesses.

- Decent lane-phase after level 3 or so and has awesome out-play potential. Good duelist with a great mid-game. Abuse the time when you just have your triforce as this is when you are strongest in the game.

- Similar to Irelia but trades a slightly weaker mid-game for a BEAST late.

- Best as a pocket pick to play against weak-laners OR ranged top-laners. Has really high lvl 2-6 damage and his great gap-closer means he poops on champs like and . Transitions to utility-bruiser in the mid and late game.

I'd play those champs in soloQ for top. I'd stay away from Yasuo though because he honestly is kinda stupid squish for top-lane. Doesn't bring much to the table if you have a squishy APC and ADC. No offense to your main mate :P

Thank you for your suggestion. Usually when I jax or irelia i take 3 as quints with a basic standard ad rune setup AD reds with armor (scaling health when vs. AP) yellows and MR blues. Should I also use these runes for gnar/j4, or are there better setups?

Thanks

Gnar JarvanIV Jax Irelia

coppinslingerJan 7, 20151 votes

That is a good set-up for both Jax and Irelia. I personally prefer AD quints on both, but AS is also good. Its up to your preference.

For J4 take full AD reds and quints. It's all about the E-Q-Auto burst so you want as much flat AD as you can get from runes.

For Gnar, AS could work if you feel awkward trying to get your 3rd proc off on the W, otherwise I'd just take full AD. Again, just for burst and poke on Q. But its preference here again.

Epicmaster1234Jan 7, 20151 votes

These 4 champions are very useful, as they have versatile build paths, and can carry games pretty hard, however, it is usually pretty important to have at least 1 ap champion in your top lane pool so you don't have cry as you're matched against a malphite.

IMO, the best AP tops are Lissandra : INSANE utility, with a snare, slow, long ranged gapcloser, invulnerability, suppress, and reliable poke. She's basically built for the top lane, since she doesn't scale as well as other ap mids, but has high base damages and strong teamfight presence.

Gragas : Pretty similar to lissandra, but is tankier in general, with more sustain. He also brings a lot to the table, with some damage reduction, a gap closer, a small knockback, a big knockback, and some zone control. He's pretty easy to learn, and hitting a perfect ult in a teamfight is such an amazing feeling.

Swain : I pick swayne into matchups like jax and irelia, because he has huge potential to bully early, but still becomes a god late game. While he lacks the sheer amount of utility of the aforemenioned, his damage and tankiness make him a solid pick.

Heimerdinger : This guy will make the enemy laner's life hell. With his huge zoning potential, near invincibility in lane vs. melee champs, and a strong ability to be ganked and pick up a double kill, this guys almost as bad as teemo.

Chogath My favorite ap top laner, this guy has strong sustain, wave clear, consistend dps, and insane burst damage early game. He scales well as a full tank, a hybrid, or burst ap, and provides excellent objective control as well as strong teamfight presence.

BluePolarizerJan 7, 20151 votes

Shen is extremely easy to carry with in solo queue.

First, you have to buy damage - choose wits end, BoRK or triforce depending on the opponent's team comp and your team comp.

Then, get tankiness that actually deals with the damage opponents have.

Finally, always get thornmail, since it is the item that lets you 1v1 ADCs. I would even get it before Randuins if ADCs were big enough.

A typical Shen build for carrying is Triforce, Sunfire, Thornmail, Randuins, Spirit Visage, Boots. This build is extremely tanky, gives you something like 300 armor with 4000 HP, but also very good sustained damage from triforce/sunfire/thornmail.

Order: usually Sunfire->Damage item. Mid-game, sunfire is good enough tankiness, this is when you need damage. Afterwards you can get more tank items to survive vs. adcs late game. If you taunt the ADC, you can usually tank them easily and kill them.

3lueJan 7, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Shen is extremely easy to carry with in solo queue.

First, you have to buy damage - choose wits end, BoRK or triforce depending on the opponent's team comp and your team comp.

Then, get tankiness that actually deals with the damage opponents have.

Finally, always get thornmail, since it is the item that lets you 1v1 ADCs. I would even get it before Randuins if ADCs were big enough.

A typical Shen build for carrying is Triforce, Sunfire, Thornmail, Randuins, Spirit Visage, Boots. This build is extremely tanky, gives you something like 300 armor with 4000 HP, but also very good sustained damage from triforce/sunfire/thornmail.

Order: usually Sunfire->Damage item. Mid-game, sunfire is good enough tankiness, this is when you need damage. Afterwards you can get more tank items to survive vs. adcs late game. If you taunt the ADC, you can usually tank them easily and kill them.

I'll try that out. Yeah it makes sense, if a person wants to carry, especially as a tank, some damage is going to be needed in order to carry.. silly as that sounds lol because being only just a tanky makes you too reliant on your team correct?

Also, should I continue to run my 2 pages for shen. Each being the same with 9 att. speed reds, scaling health yellows but when I go against AD I take scaling mr glyphs and flat armor quints and when I go against AP I take flat mr with 3 flat health quints.

Thanks in advance

Shen

BluePolarizerJan 7, 20151 votes

I only have 3 rune pages total. I run "Basic AD" rune page (9 armor pen reds, 9 armor yellows, 3 AD quints, 9 MR blues) for AP/squishy AD matchups and "AD attacker" (all attack speed quints/marks, 9 armor yellows, 9 scaling MR blues) for tanky matchups.

The reason you get armor pen vs. AP and squishy AD is that it magnifies your base damage alot, and you will be using your base damage alot. Another note: if you go wits end, get sorcerers shoes, rather than tabis or mercs. This gives you 40 MR reduction - which is huge against squishy APs that do not gain base MR. This makes your Q, Ki strike, Wits end and sunfire deal true damage while you still have very substantial resistances from sunfire and wits end.

The reason you go attack speed vs. tanky is because you are getting BoRK.

If you are snowballing like mad vs. tanky, one thing I've seen that actually works on Shen is getting a Tiamat/Hydra to boost your damage after finishing BoRK, instead of getting more tanky right away. The biggest enemy of tanky but only moderate sustained damage is lifesteal on someone equally tanky, since the sustain from your lifesteal can mitigate alot of their moderate sustained damage. Also, moderate damage tanks usually don't have great waveclear, while sunfire+hydra means you will be a very fast splitpusher that their top laner cannot duel, and they'll be forced to deal with you using at least 2 ppl. Meanwhile you can just teleport with your ult to save allies elsewhere.

The ChinJan 7, 20151 votes

Best way to win 4v5's is to split push

The Annie ChristJan 7, 20151 votes

Try out different champs if you cant carry with tank champs. Try out bruisers. Nasus is great, hes super tank, and if you farm well, his Q is amazing. He can definitely carry games. Gnar is amazing atm. Try renekton. Tanky with tons of damage early game. he has a stun, 2 dashes( If used correctly) and is just all out awesome especially early game.

Sirin GioroJan 8, 20151 votes

You don't play tank tops in low ELO You play damage dealer top laners like Riven, Jax to carry low ELO In Silver, your ADC is useless Out of position, low CS cringe Like, you will always think "If I was ADC this game would be over" if you're playing tank

the story would be different if you're playing Irelia-san