For real, remove glacial.

Or just put a 3 second CD between glacial stuns, which now only apply on basic attacks (so berserker cleave can't permastun entire teams)

Kindred is great, but having just one hero that can stop olaf isn't good game design. Not being able to do anything about your impending doom is generally a poor mechanic which I agree should be changed to affect attack speed

Glacial needs to be reworked, I entirely agree. I think what it should be changed to is;

Glacial Champions have a chance to slow enemy attack speeds.

• 20%
• 35%
• 50%

Summoners also need to be reworked. They're entirely game-breaking if they can make it to mid/late game and have only two counters -- Olaf and Sivir+Deathblade. I think Summoners should be reworked to;

• Minions Health removed and changed to untargetable(think Zyra & Azir). Health is replaced with Duration.
• If the Summoner of a minion dies, the minions respectively die.
• Trait Bonus changed from +50%/100% Health to +35%/+70% Damage.

Love the fact that the counter comps to Olaf require teams, not just individual champs. Kindred is a good counter for him, but this forces you to choose Shadow/Inferno/Ranger to counter... Perhaps this means it's time to remove Olaf? Riotpls...

[{quoted}](name=Ariel the Cruel,realm=NA,application-id=RaE1aOE7,discussion-id=A1jgiHob,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-11-15T08:36:12.059+0000)

"Stuns are an outlet against damage heavy teams, otherwise the player with the biggest sword wins." ~ Riot ... Or something along that line. Not an exact quote.

---

Basically, Riot kept Glacial because it was an alternative to having "tons of damage!" See also, Wardens and Light.

Of course, It also flies in the face of their decision to minimize hard-counters in set 2. Since the near perma-stun nature of Glacial is able to hard-counter some comps while soft-countering every comp.

Glacial wouldn't even be so bad, if Riot had taken into account how Proc chance interacts with high attack speeds. Maybe if they gave it a per-target cooldown or something along that line?

Glacial: Attacks have a 50% chance to stun for 2 seconds on-hit. Each target can only be stunned by Glacial once every X seconds (Starting when the stun ends). 2 Glacial: 15 second cooldown. 4 Glacial: 10 second cooldown. 6 Glacial: 5 second cooldown.

Heck, at that point, we could even make it a team-wide buff to open up more comps!

Glacial: all allies' attacks have a X% chance to stun for 2 seconds on-hit. Each target can only be stunned by Glacial once every Y seconds (Starting when the stun ends). 2 Glacial: 10% chance with 15 second cooldown. 4 Glacial: 20% chance with 10 second cooldown. 6 Glacial: 30% chance with 5 second cooldown. 9 Glacial: 50% chance with 3 second cooldown. (Because someone will pull it off eventually)

Just for fun, Lets look at a 2 glacial, 2-star Olaf with no items, since he's the most complained about (And has internal AS scaling with Ragnarok that we can use to demonstrate AS's impact).

Olaf AS: 0.85 -> 1.7 / 2.215 / 3.4

20% chance to stun for 1.5 seconds at 2.215 attacks per second ; convert to 3.3225 attacks per 1.5 seconds. So 3 attacks gives a 1 - [(0.8)^3] = 0.488.

So an ulting Olaf with No items has an almost 49% chance to stun a target again before the previous stun ends.

• A 4 glacial, 2-star Olaf would have a 35% chance to stun on-hit, giving him an {1 - [(0.65)^3] = 0.725375} approximately 73% chance to re-stun.
• A 6 glacial 2-star Olaf with 50% proc chance will have a re-stun chance of {1 - [(0.5)^3] = 0.875} almost 88%.
• A 2-glacial, 3 star Olaf (Good luck) with 5.1 attacks per 1.5 seconds would have an {1 - [(0.8)^5] = 0.67232} approximately 67% chance to re-stun a target.
• A 4 glacial, 3-star Olafwill have a re-stun chance of {1 - [(0.65)^5] = 0.8839709375‬} about 88%.
• Heaven forbid, you get 6 glacial 3-star olaf {1 - [(0.5)^5] = 0.96875}. Almost 97% chance they will never move.

Probably an unpopular opinion, but I don't think Olaf is the problem with Glacial, Glacial is the problem with Olaf. Olaf is a 4 cost, which means he is supposed to be strong, but its his ability to proc Glacial at almost 70% chance with only 2 Glacials due to his attack speed + berserker that makes him so overwhelming. So if Glacial didn't stun you for so long and couldn't be procced so quickly, he would just be a really strong front liner. If he only stunned every once in awhile I think he would still be worthy of being a 4 cost without being nearly impossible to deal with.

Glacial was a problem in Set 1, instead of nerfing it in the way they should have, they just nerfed the main champions who used it. So instead of being a comp it was just an add-on to other comps that was still toxic in design. I was so disappointed to see it make a return with no changes to how it works, and in fact its worse. People have been complaining about Glacial since TFT first arrived, and its no surprise we are still complaining about it since you know, they didn't do anything about it.

well they have 2 units that do well with glacial

and 1 of the main ones used gets absolutely shafted by 1 star kindred

soooooooo

yes it's not fun to see your comp get perma frozen but maybe you should change your build just a liiiiiiitle bit and you will beat em

now poison on the other hand that shit needs to be changed