Varus and Vayne should be switched in cost

Zertryx·Jun 30, 2019·12 votes·5,528 views

So i was thinking about this and here is my argument for Making Varus a 1 cost and Vayne a 2 cost

Currently Noble has 3 units at 1 Cost, Garen, Fiora and Vayne Demon has 0 units at 1 cost Vayne and Varus also both share Ranger type

Noble seems super strong very early because of this and makes it so almost everyone is rushing for it asap Demon seems to never be used because it isnt very strong passive for how much investment needs to be done Changing Varus to a 1 cost would give Demon type a way to slowly progress building it at a more reasonable pace on par with other types, making Vayne a 2 cost would make it so noble isnt being abused as hard early but still allow for it to be used at a reasonable pace, this would also keep Ranger in balance with it still having a 1 and a 2 cost.

7 Comments

NTrumpWeTrustJul 1, 20192 votes

Doing this would just knock nobles into tier 2. Why would we want less competition in the higher tiers? The fact that most of the complaints on here are about nobles being too strong, just goes to show that people aren't playing enough. Shapeshifters + asol is the undisputed best comp in the game, yet I see no one complaining. My only theory is that people equate flash to power. So if gnar is jumping around and stunning your whole team and looks cool and powerful while doing it, then being powerful is okay. But if vayne is just auto attacking and things are living forever, it's seen as "too easy to build". This may also explain how no one is complaining about cho who has an Asol ult with a knockup, lol.

ZertryxJul 1, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Doing this would just knock nobles into tier 2. Why would we want less competition in the higher tiers? The fact that most of the complaints on here are about nobles being too strong, just goes to show that people aren't playing enough. Shapeshifters + asol is the undisputed best comp in the game, yet I see no one complaining. My only theory is that people equate flash to power. So if gnar is jumping around and stunning your whole team and looks cool and powerful while doing it, then being powerful is okay. But if vayne is just auto attacking and things are living forever, it's seen as "too easy to build". This may also explain how no one is complaining about cho who has an Asol ult with a knockup, lol.

I actually think Assassin Comps late game are the best. and I dont think noble is OP i just think its super strong early forcing a lack of diversity for the start of the game, but its more about Demon being very WEAK due to the fact they have no 1 cost unit for a 6 unit comp, making it very hard to ever pull off and honestly vayne is much stronger than varus for the ranger aspect so i think it makes sense to have them be switched, noble can still push a strong early game as it'll still have 2 units at 1 cost if vayne was switched to a 2 cost. they would barley lose any strength but make demon a little more usable while keeping ranger in check

NTrumpWeTrustJul 1, 20191 votes

{quoted}

I actually think Assassin Comps late game are the best. and I dont think noble is OP i just think its super strong early forcing a lack of diversity for the start of the game, but its more about Demon being very WEAK due to the fact they have no 1 cost unit for a 6 unit comp, making it very hard to ever pull off and honestly vayne is much stronger than varus for the ranger aspect so i think it makes sense to have them be switched, noble can still push a strong early game as it'll still have 2 units at 1 cost if vayne was switched to a 2 cost. they would barley lose any strength but make demon a little more usable while keeping ranger in check

I agree to an extent. I think assassins seem better than they actually are just because a vast majority of people don't understand how important position is. Noble sort of has to be strong early or it won't make it to late game because it falls off pretty hard in the midgame. Fiora/lucian being weak early pretty much guarantees that transitioning into mid is a little rough.

They would lose a lot of power if vayne was tier 2, as upgrading tier 2 units to rank 3 takes a pretty long time and is twice as expensive since they are 2 gold instead of 1. People would just rush nidalee/trist for their carries or wait until draven. Elise is so unbelievably bad that making varus easier to acquire solves almost nothing in terms of making demons viable. Varus works in the ranger/glacial and ranger/knight comp, he has a place and given how slow his ult is, he'll never be able to compete with the likes of people who don't have to stop auto attacking for 2 seconds to shoot a scuffed asol ult, lol. Demons are pretty terrible, I agree but this feels like the wrong way to go about it.

ZertryxJul 1, 20191 votes

{quoted}

I agree to an extent. I think assassins seem better than they actually are just because a vast majority of people don't understand how important position is. Noble sort of has to be strong early or it won't make it to late game because it falls off pretty hard in the midgame. Fiora/lucian being weak early pretty much guarantees that transitioning into mid is a little rough.

They would lose a lot of power if vayne was tier 2, as upgrading tier 2 units to rank 3 takes a pretty long time and is twice as expensive since they are 2 gold instead of 1. People would just rush nidalee/trist for their carries or wait until draven. Elise is so unbelievably bad that making varus easier to acquire solves almost nothing in terms of making demons viable. Varus works in the ranger/glacial and ranger/knight comp, he has a place and given how slow his ult is, he'll never be able to compete with the likes of people who don't have to stop auto attacking for 2 seconds to shoot a scuffed asol ult, lol. Demons are pretty terrible, I agree but this feels like the wrong way to go about it.

Even without taking noble or demon into account though i still think for how strong vayne is and how weak varus is it still would make sense to switch them, vayne is honestly just too good she never has a weak point in the game. shes strong level 1 and strong mid and late as well just because she has a decent attack speed naturally and her skill isnt stopped by any kinda animation at all (not to mention if u have 2 or 3 vaynes on the field they stack eachothers passives) her being a 1 cost imo still makes her too good and varus for exactly what you said him being one of the weakest of the rangers for 2 cost makes him almost never wanting to be picked he really needs to be cheaper for how weak he is.

The reason i dont just suggest Varus as a 1 cost and keep vayne at 1 is because that would just make ranger too good

KerwintsJul 1, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Doing this would just knock nobles into tier 2. Why would we want less competition in the higher tiers? The fact that most of the complaints on here are about nobles being too strong, just goes to show that people aren't playing enough. Shapeshifters + asol is the undisputed best comp in the game, yet I see no one complaining. My only theory is that people equate flash to power. So if gnar is jumping around and stunning your whole team and looks cool and powerful while doing it, then being powerful is okay. But if vayne is just auto attacking and things are living forever, it's seen as "too easy to build". This may also explain how no one is complaining about cho who has an Asol ult with a knockup, lol.

Nobody is "complaining", we're having constructive debate, and we want more competition and diversity in the early game, which is what this topic is about.

Dunno about varus though, the thing is that nobles by themselves, especially vayne and fiora, are actually thrash, fiora can be used somewhere else by grace of Draven, but there's not a single other comp ever that I can think of wanting right now with vayne, i'd rather have literally any other ranger. It needs so much support, but varus fits in many different comps very easily and is better than vayne even by itself. I'd personally like a change or nerf to noble and a little buff to fiora/vayne (and maybe take a look at sol/draven). Same with the yordles actually. I feel like i'm setting myself up for autoloss if i invest in any yordle and most nobles

Karn BishopJul 1, 20191 votes

the problem is demons have really low draw rates, i don't think i have ever seen a golden demon besides varus being played.

Sire HippingtonJul 2, 20191 votes

Noble isn't abused because of the 1 cost pieces, but cause garen is a bit strong for a 1 cost and the noble buff is insane early on, but drops hard mid-late. Early when most units are still lvl 1 the armor+lifegain grant near immortallity to 1 of a few, later on the fact that it only is granted to 1 is an issue and by the time you get the full 6 noble bonus, damage numbers are so high that it's armor and sustain mean next to nothing.

And the reason demons aren't used is cause it fucks up class synergies, they are all over the place so getting more than 2 demons makes it near impossible to have other synergies. Additionally, they have alot bad individuals. Elise just sucks, varus is fine but the targeting on his skill often is fucked up(do i shoot 1 or 3? i guess i take the 1!) and rangers are not that great unless you have all 4, and even then it's more glacial and phantom synergies that carry them unless you got good dps items. Morgana can be good, but needs lvl 2 to be any reliable, best with some def or mana items aswell. Swain is good, but as a tier 5 you can't plan around him Eve is ok Aatrox needs help, and blademasters only exist to buff draven it feels...