Anyone else feel like they don't belong in Runeterra? I mean, yes, obviously their art design and such are different than usual, but that's not what I'm talking about. Rather...I don't feel like they're a part of the established universe. There's nothing in them that connects to the greater story. It's basically another Bard; a cool character, but not one I care that much about figuring out because I don't think they're a part of Runeterra's story.
Mimy5 votesSomeone said they should make a new thing for all the the champions like them..
saying something that the were otherworldly and that it would be like the opposite of the void..
Idk I thought it was a cool Idea cant remember who said it but..
Hellioning11 votesThat's not a bad idea. I just want them to have some connection to the world. The whole idea that 'this champion MIGHT NOT EVEN EXIST woo~' is honestly pissing me off.
Chromatic Eagle2 votesYeah that's what's pissing me off about this reboot. They want to expand the world, but are doing it with all of these champions who never interact with anyone.
Jeddy0172 votesWhat pisses me off about the retcon/reboot is that it's been a year & it's not done yet.Who cares about expanding the lore when the lore that are already there are in a god damn mess? That's like adding a room to a house when everything else looks likes shit.
Valaran Nara3 votesThat's not a bad idea. I just want them to have some connection to the world. The whole idea that 'this champion MIGHT NOT EVEN EXIST woo~' is honestly pissing me off.
Well, I like the idea that she's a folktale because, if she was "I'm a genuine thing everyone knows exist and isn't just make believe cause I am in all history books," it takes away from her being something of an enigma.
We no longer have the Institute of War. If we did, then a being like Bard, a celestial who can travel throughout the cosmos, altering the flow of time and space to prevent apocalyptic events wouldn't exist. I mean, he could, but then he'd be a champion for the IOW who is controlled by the summoners...
Why would he subject himself to that or allow it? Either his power is nerfed, or the summoner's get super buffed. Only other explanation is that he descended from the heavens, offering himself. At that point "Why?"
Same goes for Kindred. She would either be captured and locked into fighting for the summoners, or she would need some mysterious circumstance.
Hellioning5 votesI don't think it's a good thing to have characters be an enigma. In order for me to relate to a character, or even just have an opinion on them that isn't based on art or kit design, I have to know something about them, and 'WOOO~ it's MYSTERIOUS' is just a cop out. I mean, at least we know more about Kindred than Bard (they're a death spirit of some sort that split itself in two for someone to talk to.)
Jeddy0174 votesActually,a character being an enigma or a mystery is fine so long as it comes with progression,development & reveals.Especially when you 1st meet the character.Because as you progress through the story,you learn more about them & the mystery turns into understanding.
Problem with League & Lore,there is very little progression or developments.We have no idea when or if we will learn more about Kindred than what is initially released.That is the problem with the "I'm a mystery" champs who just have a giant question mark on them when released.We don't know when we'll get more,so we want to a good amount before we get sent into the desert. (For those who don't understand,this is an analogy I use for the lore.I represent the initial lore released with "Champ X" as a bottle of water & I represent the time between lore releases for/involving "Champ X" as the interval between you drinking the last of your initial water & you finding more.)
Back to my point about progression.While Bilgewater was a very good step in the right direction,they're nowhere near solving the issue of LOL's Lore lack of progression & development.Had this been less of an issue,I'm sure champs surronded in mystery at 1st would be less of an annoyance.
Hellioning1 votesI suppose that's the biggest issue. In order to get more content about the mysterious champs, I have to wait until the next lore release...and who knows when that's gonna be.
Xulsigae1 votesThe 'why' can make for a good story. Gods/super beings brought down to mortal standards can be an interesting means to see how they react and what they do without their powers. Sandman, Illyria in Angel, Tyrael, etc are examples of essentially a god brought to their knees and having to talk to mortals at their level.
Valaran Nara1 votesThe 'why' can make for a good story. Gods/super beings brought down to mortal standards can be an interesting means to see how they react and what they do without their powers. Sandman, Illyria in Angel, Tyrael, etc are examples of essentially a god brought to their knees and having to talk to mortals at their level.
Didn't that already happen to Soraka? But either way, that just means anybody else of bard's suggestive power level or influence are all in the same "I've fallen from my pedastal" to be there.
If the IoW was here, I wouldn't be surprised if Kindred was pulled into the League because somebody wanted to do some necromancy, Lamb and Wolf are like, "You're not going to screw over our job," and the summoner is just like "Bish please!" and then binds them. GG AFK.
Xulsigae1 votesIt did, and it makes an interesting story of revenge and attonement for Soraka (before they retconned it). Problem is Riot has not really defined the limits of Bard and Kindred's powers. Well...we have undead and necromancy already. Somehow I don't think Kindred minds much. And even if they are bound, that can be interesting (see Sandman). What does a world do without death?
ArdoreAurorale1 votesThat's not a bad idea. I just want them to have some connection to the world. The whole idea that 'this champion MIGHT NOT EVEN EXIST woo~' is honestly pissing me off.
cogito ergo sum
Ironclad Dragon5 votesTechnically nothing about anyone connects to any greater story.
Sniper 04 votesKindred is that thing no one wants to discuss. Death. The incarnation of death is not seen. It is whispered about. You don't really considered the "grim reaper" to have an actual connection to the world do you? Kindred is as old as the first life technically (pre split included). Where there is life, there must be death. Death as a being is an abstract concept used to explain why we die. Therefore that is what Kindred is. Kindred=Death in Runeterra. Though there is lore in the world about death (talking about our world for a second) we don't really know why it truely exists. Therefore it is kind of this veiled mystery. What is the reason for death, what happens when we die, what happens after we die. Kindred just so happens to be a real part of Runeterra that was never really proven as such until now.
Hellioning4 votesBut if they have no connection to the world and no one likes to talk about it, then why should we care about them as characters?
Several authors have managed to make Death a character, either likable or not. There's no reason that Riot couldn't do the same.
Sniper 01 votesBut if they have no connection to the world and no one likes to talk about it, then why should we care about them as characters?
Several authors have managed to make Death a character, either likable or not. There's no reason that Riot couldn't do the same.
That's kind of what they're doing now... you know, with like, every champion
Hellioning1 votesI'm legit not even sure what you're talking about. Are you referring to the story updates that have happened to exactly four champions?
Sniper 01 votesI'm legit not even sure what you're talking about. Are you referring to the story updates that have happened to exactly four champions?
No I'm talking about ekko, azir, and tahm kench. They haven't even released all of the lore to go with kindred. You could have asked the same question when ekko's teaser was released. "What the hell does this guy have to do with anything."
Hellioning4 votesAnd I did.
And he still doesn't have anything to do with anyone. He has potential stories, but as is he has no connection to other champs beyond 'I heard of some of the ones from Zaun.'
Sniper 01 votesAnd I did.
And he still doesn't have anything to do with anyone. He has potential stories, but as is he has no connection to other champs beyond 'I heard of some of the ones from Zaun.'
wait for the actual lore. Just because they're not alligned with a faction doesn't make them any less important to the lore. Explain how bard has anything to do with anyone?
This could open the door for deity's and such. "whispers" about kindred float around so people know about them already.
Hellioning3 votesBard is also completely unrelated to anyone and I don't like him either.
Sniper 01 votesBard is also completely unrelated to anyone and I don't like him either.
Mythical beings tend to be unrelated... especially deities.
Xulsigae2 votesA lot of pantheons are very relatable though. Gods and other beings throughout history tend to be manifestations of human emotions and as such act in ways we understand. Zeus, Aries, Thor, Baba Yaga etc.
Hellioning6 votesThen why should I care about them as characters? If they only react to humans by popping up and taking stuff from us like a strict parent, I don't treat them as a character, I treat them as a plot device. Bard is not a character, and I want Kindred to be a character.
Tesla Effect3 votesShadow ISles is an artificially created place, made by necromancy and powerful dark magic, it is not part of the natural order of the world. Kindred is, so its not tied with the Shadow Isles at all.
Mythology and Spiritual side of Runeterra is still heavily unexplored, Aatrox, Kindred, Bard and Tahm Kench are only small glimpses into that mythos., aka just another kind of LEGENDS.
Embertine1 votesActually Kindred refferences to themselves being the veil between life and death of which the ruined king had split apart.
Tesla Effect2 votesActually Kindred refferences to themselves being the veil between life and death of which the ruined king had split apart.
Which is also a perfect interpretation of the Grim Reaper, even Riot said so that Kindred is the Runeterran equivalent of a Grim Reaper. Death is not tied with the Shadow Isles, Death is actually shunned and feared in the Shadow Isles since most of its current residence are Undead, meaning those that shunned death. Kindred being split apart is a methaporical representation of death and the duality of life and death, emotions and knowledge, freedom and control, Yin and Yang.
Celio Hogane HD2 votesBut kindred is literally Related to Shadow Isles for obvius reasons.
Besides that you don't even know their lore, is still to be released.
Hellioning6 votesAre they, though? I mean, as a psychopomp, obviously they're going to have some sort of opinion on the land full of undead, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're related.
Celio Hogane HD1 votesWell i have my Amumu-kindred theory but basically i think is heavy implied that they have some relation with shadow isles.
I mean, this champion is released a month before harrowing!
Trylobyte1 votesI'm inclined to agree with this. Kindred's really cool and all, but he's two things I'm leery of: Indefinably powerful, and totally disconnected. It used to be that while we had extremely powerful champions on the field, they were still just champions. They had weaknesses, flaws, exploitable gaps in their armor so to speak. But with Bard, and now Kindred, we're essentially getting gods. Even the top tier champions on the power rosters of yore can't hope to stand up to these guys lore-wise, but we still don't really know how they fit in anywhere. They're just there for the sake of being there.
GreenLore2 votesWho says that they are that powerful? Sure bard watches over the world,but he doesn't know everything(he only knew about the egg when he sensed its power being used) and he can be killed(probably a reason why he avoided any fights).
Kindred might be death itself,but the shadow isles show that death is something that can be overcome. If kindred actively hunts you,there is nothing that says that you can't just bash in their faces.
Celio Hogane HD1 votesIf kindred tries to hunt you, you could always search amumu for help XD
Stars Shaper1 votesThere si still no Lore about them, we don't know anything.. how can you say now that they don't have a story that binds them to the greater figure?
Hellioning3 votesThe reason I posted this was the part in the Kindred development spotlight about how 'Kindred might not even exist.' I just thought that was a really bad idea; if something's existence is questioned, they obviously can't be related to too many things or else everyone would know they exist.
Stars Shaper1 votesThat might have been a really voersemplification of what Kindred are and their Lore. Their existence might be questioned because they are the hunters and their preys don't survive. There might be fables about them in Runeterra though. Not every entity likes to be in the spotlight but that doesn't mean there is no background binding them to the world they live.
Lissandra is a fitting example, No1 should have known who the ice witch was, yet the Freljord event gave us some insight.
It's pretty sure now that we'll get some more insight on the Shadow Isles and this might be a really big event.
Hellioning2 votesDo you have any reason to think that they're connected to the Shadow Isles, or are you just going off of their being a manifestation of Death?
I am noticing a distinct lack of that ugly green color that's in all of the SI champs...
Stars Shaper1 votesFrom some parts of their VO, one when purchasing the Blade of the Ruined King, "Forged in a land unwelcome to us" and a reaction right now uncategorized "Long have we shadowed your deeds". THe second one is open to lots of possibilities so I wouldn't say it's a 100% related to a champion of the SI.
One other things is that in Maokai Lore the former forest of the SI were described also full of spiritual beings other than vegetation and rather than the aspect of Death itself but just as a hunting spirit that has gone mad.
The absence of the spooky greenish color and phantasm-like appearance that Thresh and Kalista show is caused by the fact that it was not the undeath who morphed them in what they are but it was he who split himself in the Kindred.
Ignis01 votesHonestly they aren't supposed to be a perfect fit runeterra. They're spirits. So they're part of runeterra but much more too. Also in the champ insight riot said that they are supposed to be legends in runeterra anyway so nobody really knows their existence. Aka they have no plan for the lore once again.
Hellioning4 votesThat's exactly my point. If no one knows that they exist, why should we care about them as characters?
Tesla Effect2 votesThat's exactly my point. If no one knows that they exist, why should we care about them as characters?
But there are at least a handful of people that survived death, otherwise we wouldnt have tales, folklore, songs about Kindred. They are tales about Kindred regardless of if there were incounters wit hit or not. Some basic information about them had to have some source, ether trought the interpretation of nature itself or the action of nature itself. That is mythology in a nutshell, its not clear or fully explained and God knows Runeterra needs some mythology in it to give it some life to that world so to speak.
Hellioning4 votesMythology is fine and all, but I want them to flesh out the cultures that have the mythology before they just decide to do something like this.
And I still don't see why I should care about Kindred as a character if no one is sure they exist. Like, if the undead champions were aware of Kindred as something to fight against, I'd be down with that, but I don't think that's the case.
Tesla Effect1 votesMythology is fine and all, but I want them to flesh out the cultures that have the mythology before they just decide to do something like this.
And I still don't see why I should care about Kindred as a character if no one is sure they exist. Like, if the undead champions were aware of Kindred as something to fight against, I'd be down with that, but I don't think that's the case.
Well Mythology is considered part of culture.
Hellioning4 votesAnd if the mythology was introduced as part of a culture, I'd be down with that, but that's not what happened. Said 'mythology' was introduced as a character.
Tesla Effect2 votesAnd if the mythology was introduced as part of a culture, I'd be down with that, but that's not what happened. Said 'mythology' was introduced as a character.
The character is part of a culture, just as Tahm Kench and even Bard and Aatrox are. You cant have mythology without characters and you cant have culture without some added mythology in it, otherwise its shallow and not realistic.
Thats how mythology works, to explain certain forces and fenomena in the world, you create characters to represent those things. Those characters and the story behind them (which are usually shaped by natural forces or stories by experience) create the mythology which in a sense also enriches the culture of certain groups of people. All of it is intertwined.
Hellioning3 votesIs Bard even mythological? Like, both Tahm and Aatrox have some sort of relation to the world; people know they exist. But Bard (and as far as I can tell, Kindred) seem entirely unrelated; it's entirely possible that Kindred is just a mythological creation that Riot made playable, and they don't exist in Runeterra. I mean, probably not, but it's possible.
Ignis01 votesThat's exactly my point. If no one knows that they exist, why should we care about them as characters?
Pretty much what Tesla said.
Mythology brings Runeterra from a 2d war waste land. To a 3d war waste land with culture in their past present and future.
Also I just love the types of characters Kindred are.
Krizalid1 votesHUMAN CHARACTER with a LEGIT backstory WHEN?