Bard Trailer: Pretty much what I was expecting. Good. Noxians a bit too ordinary.

CupcakeTrap··31 votes·9,009 views

http://i.imgur.com/XYLLcE0.png

So I finally got around to watching the Bard: Mountain trailer. It was pretty much exactly what I was expecting. There were two things that surprised me:

  1. I knew they were going kind of Ghibli, but the Mononoke references were much stronger than I expected, with the little dancing spirit dudes. This isn't a gripe; as I've said before, I think League is all about references. Actually, I liked that they were straightforward about it.
  2. The Noxians seemed a little too mundane for Runeterra. They seemed like dudes in armor with swords and axes, and there was a distinct lack of "BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!" This actually is a gripe; I think League does better with a more "larger than life" aesthetic. I feel like Noxians should be much more awe-inspiring.

Overall, though, I rather liked it. It gave me a nice introduction to Bard, it had a nice style to it, and I enjoyed the "flavor" of the cosmic magic that was revealed.

So about those Noxians

My main gripe, as noted above, would be the portrayal of Noxians. I feel like, if one were to continue in this vein, a battle between Demacia and Noxus would end up looking like a medieval European battle, maybe with a few dragons or spells thrown in. It might even be pretty hard to tell the two factions apart. In contrast, my intuition is that a battle between Demacia and Noxus should be a lot more "paladins versus death knights": paladins in radiant silver armor wielding holy swords blazing with white fire (and standing over a bunch of terrified peasants) on one side, hulking warriors in black armor on the other side, wielding axes etched with burning blood-runes. I feel that a random European knight should look distinctly dull next to either of them. (I should clarify: I think both factions have greater moral complexity than "Good" and "Evil". But I think their aesthetics should contrast heavily, and I think both should be absolutely awesome in their own way.) My view, and this might not be shared by Narrative, is that Runeterra is a "high-magic" setting, where magic is not limited to mages: a certain ethereal nature permeates each faction, and empowers even non-mages. This would explain why Demacia and Noxus haven't moved on to Piltovian rifles, or for that matter Zaunite death rays: a Noxian legion is not just "a bunch of angry humans with axes", but a representation of the spirit of Noxus, in a setting where destiny and emotion can quite directly alter the material world. (This also helps explain Champions: they're people who get an extra dose of this ambient magic, enabling them to perform superhuman feats worthy of "legendary" status.) IRL, it would be ridiculous to wield a sword rather than a gun; in Runeterra, while a laser gun is pretty awesome, there's also something awesome about a Noxian legion or a squadron of Demacian knights charging into battle. IRL, a gunpowder weapon will make plate armor look ridiculous and fragile; in Runeterra, both have a potent "reality", and it's not clear which will prevail. To use a somewhat extreme example, I'm pretty sure Lee Sin is not just some guy who does MMA; I see him as an embodiment of all those fantasies about "iron body training" and "chi flow". In reality, jump-kicks are pretty useless against someone wearing steel armor; in Runeterra, I don't think that's necessarily true.

To elaborate a bit further: I don't think it's necessarily all about "magic weapons and armor" as such, though those probably do exist, and I imagine that even a perfectly generic Noxian axe has some kind of magic worked into it. (There are probably mages working in those forges.) I don't think it's even just about magical banners that cast ethereal auras or whatever. My intuition would be that "Noxus" exists not only as a political abstraction but as something ethereal. (The same would go for every other faction.) This might sound out there, but again, this is a universe where magic is real, and there seems to be an awful lot of it about. One of the basic principles of magic in fantasy literature is the translation of human thought and feeling into physical phenomena: you wish there to be a fireball, and FWOOOSH! there is a fireball; you desperately want someone to live, and the tears you cry over them actually do (or might) cure their sickness. In such a universe, it's quite natural that a Demacian soldier's determination to defend the innocent, and a Noxian warrior's thirst for power and glory, should imbue each of them with power above and beyond what their physiological or technological status would "objectively" indicate. In our world, righteousness does not actually make a shield any stronger; in Runeterra, I think it does. Though it would be shocking IRL, I imagine that a Runeterran scientist would not find anything particularly surprising about a ballistics test that shows an empty suit of armor failing to block a gunshot, while the same armor worn by a heroic knight deflects it harmlessly aside. That Runeterran scientist might need to consult with a mage friend to really understand what's going on there, but then again, most Runeterran technology is in fact hextech (or "techmaturgy") in the first place.

This video, though, looks a bit more like a perfectly mundane depiction of humans smacking each other with pieces of metal, with some magical elements (Bard, the artifact) slipped in. I feel like the spirit of Runeterra calls for a much more generous application of fantasy and magic.

So, I'd have preferred the Noxians to be a bit more badass, but it's not the worst thing in the world. Maybe these guys were a ragtag band of unblooded recruits, sent to go hassle some Ionians. At first, I thought they'd surely be sending the elites in to capture such a potent artifact, but then I remembered that you can't throw a rock in Ionia without hitting three mystical temples, a mysterious monk who's been meditating in silence for six centuries, and a half a dozen wondrous artifacts. "Hey, Groxarius, we heard something about another magic rock out in the sticks near your camp. Why don't you take those auxiliaries out and grab it? It'll give them some practice for when this gets serious."

And, okay, it's a bit "obvious"

If I were to make another critique, it might be that it was so deeply unsurprising. I had a similar feeling about the Kalista short story: if you put a hundred authors in separate rooms and asked them to write a really basic Kalista story, I feel like you'd get at least eighty copies of that story. However, I'm much happier with Mountain; perhaps I just feel that it's more appropriate for video to be straightforward, whereas when you write something out, I expect more nuance and complexity. As it is, I actually thought the clarity of Mountain was a strength: here's Bard, here's him swiping an artifact to restore cosmic balance, apparently indifferent to the mortal struggle going on around him.

Still, overall, I liked it. At no point did Olmec from Legends of the Hidden Temple declare, "THE ANCIENT WEAPON IS A KEY!" or "SHE…BETRAYS!…SIVIR!" It was not accompanied by a post from Narrative clarifying that as part of their new artistic vision they've retconned chairs from the League of Legends universe. I enjoyed the Rek'Sai material more, but this was pretty decent. I'm pleased to see it added to the League of Legends canon.

33 Comments

Darrosh Jewfist20 votes

I think the problem is that post-retcon, Runeterra has become rather generic.

Generic soldiers attacking generic townsfolk fighting for a generic artifact.

And the main focus is on a character we don't know the motivations of, which officially we AREN'T supposed to understand, whose origins and purpose are vague.

Overall, it's a nice video but it's stupidly shallow in terms of actual lore and substance.

I also strongly agree with your Noxian soldiers gripe which is perfectly valid. If you compare Noxian soldiers to heck... pretty much any other fantasy game-verse there's a solid differentiation amongst soldier roles. Designs in other works don't need Jaerden coming around to tell us that 'big ax dude plays a specific role in the Noxian regiment, and we won't explain what it is.'

OTHER GAMES CAN DO THIS VISUALLY AND RATHER SELF-EXPLANATORY.

For example in the Horde from Warcraft 3 you got big green dudes with axes, grunts. Follow that up with skinny troll spearthrowers or giant enraged troll beserkers who dual-throw spears. You got horned capped wolf-riders called raiders backed by the super heavy totem-wielding tauren infantry.

It's all pretty clear by JUST THE VISUALS what each of these guys do.

But Riot expects us to differentiate between one big dude with armor and a bunch of smaller dudes wearing the same armor that the big dude has a very specific role in his regiment like some door-breaker or pointman? We can infer he might be a more renowned Noxian or maybe a captain, but to suggest that his role can solely be implied by his size and weapon (an axe WHICH PRETTY MUCH EVERY NOXIAN FRONTLINE WARRIOR WE'VE SEEN SO FAR HAVE USED - Urgot, Sion, Draven, Darius) is a bit of a stretch.

That's horrible design.

Baron of Bread3 votes

Just putting this out there, but Draven uses weird spinning axes and not your boring large axe. Another thing worth noticing is that Sion, Darius and Urgot are not your run of the mill frontline warriors. Sion and Darius were/are both exceptionally high ranking members of the Noxian military and Urgot, while not an officer, was important enough to be giving the job of High Executioner of Noxus, which says something about his rank. Any similarities to them would be arguments towards axe guy being important.

If that is not enough to show that the fellow wasn't at least a decent rank, his similarities also show that he likely did have a unique role. If you didn't notice, the axe guy is the only Noxian not using a sword (or bow) in the video. This lends him to likely being in the position that Sion (probably) and Urgot (certainly) held as Gatecrashers (I am using the term that was used in Urgot's Judgement). Darius could easily have also had this job, but there is no specific mention of what he did in his unit.

I can provide more reason for why the axe guy was visibly more important than the other soldiers, but I think this is enough.

Darrosh Jewfist6 votes

I'm talking about visual design choice.

You have a 3 minute, high-paced, filled with action scenes and imply that the average audience viewer is going to realize that only a select few dudes have axes? Despite all of these characters having pretty much indistinguishable steel and red cloth armor?

I'm saying that if Narrative want to imply that Noxian regiments have soldiers within these regiments who perform specialized duties (other than this dude is big and uses an axe), they should be more distinguished rather than simply by their weapon of choice (an axe) which thus far, is what pretty much every Noxian warrior champion has used.

Which adds to the Topic Creator's point that the Noxian soldiers are just generic.

Look guys we've got sword Noxians... bow Noxians... and even drum roll please AXE NOXIANS!

Dudes wearing the same armor, just different weapons.

No mark of heraldry or symbol of office or status indicator. He's just bigger with a sword. Heck, even Roman centurions (which Noxians seemed to be based off by the use of currency from the Rek'Sai storyline and gladiator plotline) had feathered plume helms and stuff.

Yes, I know Sion/Darius/Draven/Urgot are all pretty high ranking but they're also soldiers. Why wouldn't one assume that Noxian warriors just generally prefer axes?

How the heck is a viewer suppose to know, just at first glance, instead of axe Noxian being just a big Noxian dude with an axe that he plays a specialized role in the regiment? How can the viewer instantly know he's like a Captain or whatever his actual title is* at first glance*?

The worst part is, this specialized role isn't even named.

So what the heck is he? Is he like some NCO who plays a specific squad level role or is he some kind of officer?

tl:dr - a good design would make it very clear from the first visual impression this guy plays some kind of specific role in the Noxian regiment instead of just being a big Noxian with an axe - this is done through making him visually DISTINGUISHABLE outside of just making him bigger.

Baron of Bread3 votes

I agree that most of the Noxians were generic, which saddens me.

I don't see why you wouldn't expect a guy equipped uniquely to have a unique role in a unit. If you saw a group of soldiers armed with light one-handed swords and one guy with a giant two-handed axe and heavier armor wouldn't you think something like "I bet axe guy is going to wade right in to open a hole." The point isn't "I think axe guy will do x" but that you thought specifically about axe guy first, showing that it is reasonable to expect someone to think axe guy has a specific role when he is first seen. They might not agree on what that job is, but they will almost certainly think he has one.

As for distinguishing features, he is not wearing the same armor. All of the other Noxians have helmets. Axe guy has no helmet. The other Noxians are using smaller shoulder pads. Axe dude has shoulder plates Darius would be proud of.

I think it is reasonable to expect the average viewer to notice that precisely one guy has an axe. Note, this is not a case of this particular dude stands out and is one of the axe dudes. He is the only guy with an axe and his axe is focused on and significantly different visually from all of the other weapons used in style and shape (if there were other guys with axes they are not easily noticed by simply watching the cinematic). His axe is wide, the swords are thin. He wields his axe two handed, the sword guys wield theirs one handed (for the most part, one or two guys have moments of two handed use).

As far as heraldry and symbols of office go, how many Noxian champs have such a thing? Look at Swain and Darius, arguably the highest ranking Noxian champions. Neither of them have such symbols unless their capes count (which they might, see below), so they are unlikely to exist. There is the Crimson Elite, but they are obviously not involved in this cinematic and are definitely a special case for the most elite soldiers. Noxus also doesn't believe in any form of birth right (every character from Noxus has had to prove their worth, Du Couteau or not), so heraldry is likely not a thing there either (otherwise the Du Couteau sisters would have some).

The currency mentioned in the Rek'Sai lore (securi) is not a Roman currency, as far as I can tell. Noxus does have gladiatorial arenas, but many cultures have fighting as entertainment. All in all, I don't see any good reason to use Roman troops as an example for why Noxian troops should look a certain way.

It is also reasonable to believe that axe guy is not in fact an officer, since near the start of the cinematic we have a guy who yells "Find the stone" with his cape and sword. It would be reasonable to believe that guy is the commanding officer in the area. Since there are so few soldiers here any way (I would guess max 150, and that might be stretching a bit), it is also possible he is the only major officer. In that case there is no reason for axe guy to have any distinguishing "feathered plumes," or in the case of Noxus a cape since that is the only thing that has been shown to possibly be a symbol of rank.

Now that we have brought up speaking parts, there were a total of 7 words used in the cinematic. With so few words used it would be silly to expect them to randomly drop in a "Oh, and this guy was a Gatecrasher" (which was the term used in the Urgot Judgement and could very well be the correct term). Sure, they could have added in something like "Send in the Gatecrashers!" or some such, but dropping the name of the position doesn't really add anything to the experience other than disrupting the flow of the cinematic.

tl:dr - There are actually lots of things that make axe Noxian distinguished from the others at first glance and therefore he likely played a unique role in his regiment. There are reasons that other methods weren't used and other information not given. He is likely not an officer.

Darrosh Jewfist2 votes

I agree that there are things that make axe bro distinguished from the rest of the Noxian regiment but the jump from 'that big guy in our squad with an axe' to specialized role is a stretch.

There are plenty of battle mangas and comics where a big guy with an axe is just... the big guy with the axe on the team. He would be considered first pick in charging head first sure. But the entire leap of saying it's an official designation for the regiment?

What?

I simply don't believe the video conveyed this idea as effectively as you think.

CupcakeTrap3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Baron of Bread,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=vbELZjG6,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2015-03-09T05:57:45.025+0000)

The currency mentioned in the Rek'Sai lore (securi) is not a Roman currency, as far as I can tell. Noxus does have gladiatorial arenas, but many cultures have fighting as entertainment. All in all, I don't see any good reason to use Roman troops as an example for why Noxian troops should look a certain way.

I think Noxus is pretty loaded with Roman imagery. No, there was no unit of Roman currency called the "securus", but I read that as a reference to the solidus, the Roman coin that is the etymological origin of our word "soldier". The Rek'Sai piece was a letter, a classic Roman form, and had the sort of colonial attitude that one often finds in Roman ethnographies of "distant lands". And Roman values of prestige and dignitas are often contrasted with later Judeo-Christian morals that center around compassion and altruism; Machiavelli is probably the author best known for drawing this distinction.

Baron of Bread3 votes

Ok, I can buy (hehe) that the currency might be a reference to Rome. However, Rome is by far not the only culture to use written correspondence (ancient China or Greece), many colonial powers had similar viewpoints of distant lands (Spain or Britain) and those Roman values are present in many warrior cultures (Pacific-Northwest first peoples or Mongols/Huns). So while Noxus has these features in common with Rome, there are plenty of other cultures that have these features as well (albeit most are not found in one single culture, but Japan might make a decent case of that).

In any case, even if Noxus has some Roman elements there are plenty of reasons to not base Noxian imagery off of the Romans; most of these reasons are the visual elements of the Noxian champions. The Romans didn't have a fondness for axes or necromancy, and Noxus doesn't seem to care much for the divine.

Basically, I think there are enough differences between the cultures and settings that the visual elements of Rome have no real place in Noxus.

CupcakeTrap2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Baron of Bread,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=vbELZjG6,comment-id=000200000000000000010000,timestamp=2015-03-09T06:47:36.657+0000)

Ok, I can buy (hehe) that the currency might be a reference to Rome. However, Rome is by far not the only culture to use written correspondence (ancient China or Greece), many colonial powers had similar viewpoints of distant lands (Spain or Britain) and those Roman values are present in many warrior cultures (Pacific-Northwest first peoples or Mongols/Huns). So while Noxus has these features in common with Rome, there are plenty of other cultures that have these features as well (albeit most are not found in one single culture, but Japan might make a decent case of that).

In any case, even if Noxus has some Roman elements there are plenty of reasons to not base Noxian imagery off of the Romans; most of these reasons are the visual elements of the Noxian champions. The Romans didn't have a fondness for axes or necromancy, and Noxus doesn't seem to care much for the divine.

Basically, I think there are enough differences between the cultures and settings that the visual elements of Rome have no real place in Noxus.

It's a bit too late at night for me to go into an extended discussion about this, but I think Noxus does in fact draw an awful lot from Rome. (The Rek'Sai letter really, really hit on a lot of these, but it's not the only such source.) I will agree that it's more of a secondary than primary influence. The Roman Empire is a major cultural trope for us, and is closely tied to our image of imperial militarism.

As a sidenote, Romans did in fact have a thing for axes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fasces

I don't think Rome is a particularly good visual reference for Noxian Champions, no, though you could borrow certain elements. Mostly, it's just a feeling: a certain hard-nosed pragmatism, an obsession with power, a drive to conquer and rule, backstabby aristocracy, and a ruthlessly efficient military machine.

Baron of Bread3 votes

Ok, so there are similarities to Rome (also didn't know about that axe thing which is interesting). Yes, you could bring over some elements of Roman culture into Noxus. However, most of the similarities Noxus has to Rome can be found elsewhere. We find those elements in the Mongol Hordes and the Comanche tribes, and probably in many other highly military cultures.

I never really thought of Noxus as being heavily linked with Rome other than a bit of copy-paste like the gladiator stuff. To me Noxus has always felt different enough that distinctly Roman elements felt foreign when they were put in, including the whole Fleshing thing.

CupcakeTrap3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Baron of Bread,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=vbELZjG6,comment-id=00020000000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2015-03-09T23:22:33.280+0000)

Ok, so there are similarities to Rome (also didn't know about that axe thing which is interesting). Yes, you could bring over some elements of Roman culture into Noxus. However, most of the similarities Noxus has to Rome can be found elsewhere. We find those elements in the Mongol Hordes and the Comanche tribes, and probably in many other highly military cultures.

I never really thought of Noxus as being heavily linked with Rome other than a bit of copy-paste like the gladiator stuff. To me Noxus has always felt different enough that distinctly Roman elements felt foreign when they were put in, including the whole Fleshing thing.

I don't know much about the Mongol Hordes or the Comanche, but I don't think either of them had an elaborate imperial state system. I do think that Noxus draws a lot more on Rome than on either of those societies. But it's not a copy-paste in the same way that, e.g., Ionia is a fantasy Asia pastiche, or Piltover is a standard steampunk setting. I see it as a secondary theme, rather than a primary theme: it doesn't completely define Noxus, but when you need to reach for a cultural reference with Noxus, or a name, I think it's quite natural to grab something Roman. For instance, let's say you need to come up with a title for the person who leads a Noxian army. Calling them a legate seems rather appropriate, just like Demacia might have counts or barons, or (say) seneschals.

This might sound like a knock against League lore. It really isn't. As I've said before, references and tropes are quite valuable assets when crafting a story, especially a story that people are expected to get pretty quickly and are not expected to spend that much time delving into.

If I tell you that I've invented a fantasy realm called Xeltar, and say that it evolved on an alien world and is totally different from our own civilizations, you are starting from a blank slate. That might sound kind of cool, but I think it's actually often a mistake. It's really hard for you to imagine walking around Xeltar, because you have no basis. If I write a story about Xeltari peasants in the southern region eating kwemlor soup and admiring the galvo flowers, you probably will have no clue WTF I'm talking about, and at most you'll get out of it "they like flowers and eat soup of some kind". If I ask you what Xeltari wear at important business meetings, you might imagine a toga, or a business suit, or any number of other garments, and you won't really know.

In contrast, if I ask you to imagine a Demacian feast, it's not going to be hard for you to get immersed. I don't need to describe what kwemlor tastes like, or go into minute detail about what they're wearing: you're going to load in the standard "high-fantasy medieval" elements, and you'll already be smelling the roasted goose and imagining the taste of the ale or the sparkle of the King's shiny crown. It's so much richer. No, I won't get "originality points" for making up new kinds of vegetables, but more importantly, I can tell an immersive, vibrant story that'll draw you in. And if I do want to depart from the norms, I can. Maybe Demacians are really into glass, and make tables out of tempered glass. I can add that in, and you have time to focus on it, because you're not overloaded with galvo flowers and kwemlor soup or the blergi that the warriors of the jamano caste ride during the festivals of the season called kontar.

Noxus borrows from a lot of historical cultures and fantasy tropes, but I think it does so less than other civilizations in Runeterra. Noxus is mostly Noxus. It does, of course, draw on some historical and literary themes. The Arthurian "black knight" is there. So are the Mongol hordes. (I admit I was about to say "Klingons", but then realized that Klingons are themselves a sci-fi version of various nomadic warrior civilizations.) I used to consider Noxus as mostly "dark Demacia", i.e., "angry Demacians with axes and armor spikes". But that's not quite true. The ethos of Noxus is incompatible with a hereditary monarchy. Noxian leaders arise when certain Noxians outmaneuver or outright destroy their rivals and claw their way to the top. Your duty to the state is understood largely in terms of a quid pro quo: you participate in the state's affairs because it's a way to advance your career and achieve glory, for yourself and for Noxus. Hierarchical relationships are less likely to be about feudal strictures and birthright, and more likely to be based on a sort of client-patron system (very Roman) whereby you agree to serve someone for the moment because you both understand it'll get you ahead. That doesn't sound like an "evil kingdom"; that sounds like late Republican/early Imperial Rome. I don't think it really sounds quite like the Mongols, either: although Noxians are highly individualistic, they also seem very organized. (It's just that the hierarchy is not dictated from on high, and each component of the whole is striving for his or her own gain.) So, yeah. I really feel that Rome is a strong source of Noxian theme, albeit not nearly so dominant a theme as would be found in some other factions.

Baron of Bread3 votes

Does Noxus have an imperial state system? I don't recall anything that suggests that. In any case, the Mongols did enforce such a system at least in China and probably in the Golden Horde.

I don't see how Demacia's titles are relevant to Noxus, other than Noxus would probably avoid using the same ones. Also as far as I can tell from the lore Noxus uses the same General-Colonel-Major-Captain-Lieutenant that the USA uses. I will admit though that I didn't see much for this other than all of the generals and Darius's Lore's mention of a Captain.

CupcakeTrap2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Baron of Bread,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=vbELZjG6,comment-id=0002000000000000000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-03-10T00:19:45.729+0000)

Does Noxus have an imperial state system? I don't recall anything that suggests that. In any case, the Mongols did enforce such a system at least in China and probably in the Golden Horde.

They have a High Command and a Grand General, and they seem awfully keen on dispatching legions to subjugate Ionia and the Freljord.

I have to plead ignorance when it comes to the Mongols. I don't know what their society or government looked like; I should read up on that. But I didn't get the impression that it was an urban civilization.

[{quoted}](name=Baron of Bread,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=vbELZjG6,comment-id=0002000000000000000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-03-10T00:19:45.729+0000)

I don't see how Demacia's titles are relevant to Noxus, other than Noxus would probably avoid using the same ones. Also as far as I can tell from the lore Noxus uses the same General-Colonel-Major-Captain-Lieutenant that the USA uses. I will admit though that I didn't see much for this other than all of the generals and Darius's Lore's mention of a Captain.

Well, come to think of it, a quick glance at the wiki doesn't show any reference to Demacian "barons" or "counts", either—though they definitely have "knights" and a "seneschal". I may have overstated the degree to which League lore derives from these tropes. I really need to do a thorough review of this material.

Still, even a quick glance did turn up some more Roman elements. For instance, LeBlanc's lore talks about all the secret societies and cults hidden away in Noxus; that was definitely part of Roman society. On the other hand, Riven's Judgment talks about "Fury Company"; other than the classical allusion (Fury), that doesn't really sound Roman; you'd think it'd talk about a cohort or something. I think I may have overstated my case somewhat. If so, it's a shame; I think Rome would be a strong choice as a unifying theme for Noxus, and the existing material is really pretty scattered.

Anyway, this conversation has motivated me to take a fresh look at Noxus, which I need to do for Factions anyway.

Baron of Bread3 votes

Hey, I learned some things too as well as being reminded to get into Factions.

Forever Strong!

SpecterVonBaren1 votes

Ya know... now that you mention that, could it be that axes are seen as a sign of high rank in Noxious? LORE!

LANWhale9 votes

Ya I got the same feeling from the Noxians. Heck, the only reason why i didn't think they were Noxians is because of how less gruesome they were.

I always thought them to be this sort of warriors who have nothing to lose and will fight with all their power for what they believe in. And when I say "what they believe in" I don't mean, " Ya I like Noxus sure i'll fight for it." No, what i mean is, "All powerful artifact? If I get my hands on that I would be set."

*But like I always believed, Noxus isn't bad but ruthless and strong. * The only time I got the sense of these traits from the Video was when the Bald dude (you don't like his nickname?) was climbing up the stairs and quite literally knocked everybody aside, even his own men.

Kingsgrave5 votes

Those are soldiers before Noxus existed. Bard is clearly a time traveler.

AbrahamBaconham2 votes

Yeah, perhaps the reason that they do a poor job of representing Noxians is because besides pillaging and slaughtering, there's almost nothing to suggest that they're Noxians.

Rinky Dinky2 votes

Looks like Ionians and Noxians to me

Also an important point to mention is that the Noxians and Demacians have been around for centuries

Edit: Bard took dfg away ;-;

Puri Puri Taric4 votes

so what lore is ded.

Solideus4 votes

There was a lot of talk about Noxus' visual development around Sion's re-release. Darius armor shows us towards what direction the Noxian armour has changed and been refined over the years, in-universe and otherwise. The Noxian soldiers in Bard: Mountain might be a representation of the old, more primitive Noxian military.

A new thematic direction for Noxus might be their rapid growth from crude marauders to a modern and brutal empire.

CupcakeTrap3 votes

{quoted}

There was a lot of talk about Noxus' visual development around Sion's re-release. Darius armor shows us towards what direction the Noxian armour has changed and been refined over the years, in-universe and otherwise. The Noxian soldiers in Bard: Mountain might be a representation of the old, more primitive Noxian military.

A new thematic direction for Noxus might be their rapid growth from crude marauders to a modern and brutal empire.

I like this idea: maybe this is Noxus before its big centralization, and the rise of the Zaun-influenced "New Noxus" that followed, and transformed an already mighty empire into a terrifying WMD-slinging war machine that started freaking out even some Noxians (see: Riven). That said, I do feel like even as "crude marauders" Noxians would be more badass than this. My current headcanon is that these are fairly raw recruits out on what was supposed to be a trivial retrieval mission.

One thing, though: can you remind me when this animation is set? I honestly can't remember, and I can't seem to find the relevant Red Post via google. I thought I remembered reading that this all happened a generation or two ago.

Solideus2 votes

The Wonder Above storyteller was a child during Bard: Mountain, so I'd say it was about half a century ago, give or take. Sion, for comparison, might have lived around a full century ago.

Also, about the soldiers' aesthetics, they were likely designed to be somewhat low-key because they were background characters. If the Noxian army was in the spotlight they would probably feature more eye-catching designs.

RiotWhren4 votes

Thanks for posting your thoughts. This is a great discussion and really great feedback :)

CupcakeTrap2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Whren,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=vbELZjG6,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2015-03-10T08:35:44.745+0000)

Thanks for posting your thoughts. This is a great discussion and really great feedback :)

Thank you! I'm very pleased that you found my comments and the discussion helpful. The community is always eager to pitch ideas and provide feedback.

LordTekron3 votes

I like to think those Noxian Soldiers (If they are from Noxus, would make sense but you never know) To belong to the phrase "The Second Mouse gets the Cheese", just think about it.

1st Squad goes in, they are the weakest of the bunch and are mainly for triggering any ambushes or tiring out the soldiers, if they win then hey... Their opponents were just that weak (show here till the old man busted out the DFG)

2nd Squad is the actual terrifying soldiers, they are the true Noxian army, the ones that wear the helmets with four eyes, the strongest they have, to show the enemy that the true battle hasn't even started yet.

Perhaps that may not be the case, but a tactician like Swain wouldn't just send his army in there without ensuring that he would win that fight, so just send the canaries into the cave first.

CupcakeTrap2 votes

{quoted}

I like to think those Noxian Soldiers (If they are from Noxus, would make sense but you never know) To belong to the phrase "The Second Mouse gets the Cheese", just think about it.

1st Squad goes in, they are the weakest of the bunch and are mainly for triggering any ambushes or tiring out the soldiers, if they win then hey... Their opponents were just that weak (show here till the old man busted out the DFG)

2nd Squad is the actual terrifying soldiers, they are the true Noxian army, the ones that wear the helmets with four eyes, the strongest they have, to show the enemy that the true battle hasn't even started yet.

Perhaps that may not be the case, but a tactician like Swain wouldn't just send his army in there without ensuring that he would win that fight, so just send the canaries into the cave first.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking with:

Maybe these guys were a ragtag band of unblooded recruits, sent to go hassle some Ionians. At first, I thought they'd surely be sending the elites in to capture such a potent artifact, but then I remembered that you can't throw a rock in Ionia without hitting three mystical temples, a mysterious monk who's been meditating in silence for six centuries, and a half a dozen wondrous artifacts. "Hey, Groxarius, we heard something about another magic rock out in the sticks near your camp. Why don't you take those auxiliaries out and grab it? It'll give them some practice for when this gets serious."

It seems very Noxian to send fresh recruits out to test the enemy's resolve, as an opportunity for them to prove themselves worthy. And it's often just sound military doctrine to hold the elites back. Noxus has a strong Roman theme to it; I recall that Roman legions were organized like that:

  • The hastati (sing. hastatus) consisted of raw or inexperienced soldiers, considered to be less reliable than legionaries of several years' service. The Hastati were placed at the front for several reasons. One reason is the city of Rome could ill-afford to lose experienced soldiers, so they put the greenest soldiers at the front. If they survived, the Hastati/tus would gain invaluable experience. Another reason is if the newest soldiers succumbed to battle nerves and broke and tried to run, then there were experienced soldiers behind them to scare or comfort them.
  • The principes (sing. princeps) These were the more experienced soldiers, often better equipped than the Hastati, and having more experience on the battle field, they would take up the second line in the battle in the event the Hastati failed or fled. They were the second wave in an early Republican Legion before the military reforms of Marius.
  • The triarii (sing. triarius) were the veteran soldiers, to be used in battle only in extreme situations; they rested one knee down when not engaged in combat. The triarii served primarily as reserves or barrier troops designed to backstop the hastati and principes, and were equipped with long hastae (spears) rather than the pilum and gladius (the hastati and principes stopped using spears in 387 BC). Thus armed, they fought in a phalanx formation. The sight of an advancing armored formation of triarii legionaries frequently discouraged exultant enemies in pursuit of retreating hastati and principes troops. Ad triarios redisse - To fall back upon the triarii was a Roman idiom – meaning to use one's last resort.

I don't think Noxians are quite that cautious, but I doubt Noxian elites would have a problem with shoving the green troops out in front to take the opening volleys. Just as importantly, it seems very Noxian to be willing to prove yourself by taking the front lines.

And if Noxians rely in large part on intimidation, there's something to be said for tiring out the enemy brawling with your rookies, then smashing their flank with fully rested elite shock troops.

LordTekron2 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, that's what I was thinking with:

It seems very Noxian to send fresh recruits out to test the enemy's resolve, as an opportunity for them to prove themselves worthy. And it's often just sound military doctrine to hold the elites back. Noxus has a strong Roman theme to it; I recall that Roman legions were organized like that:

I don't think Noxians are quite that cautious, but I doubt Noxian elites would have a problem with shoving the green troops out in front to take the opening volleys. Just as importantly, it seems very Noxian to be willing to prove yourself by taking the front lines.

And if Noxians rely in large part on intimidation, there's something to be said for tiring out the enemy brawling with your rookies, then smashing their flank with fully rested elite shock troops.

Except for Sion... He is sorta that exception that proves the point. Wanna prove you are a Noxian Warrior and should bask in glory and power? Then you better chop some heads off before Sion Ults in and Shield Dunks them all... Because hell, Swain isn't exactly going to stop him...

CupcakeTrap1 votes

{quoted}

Except for Sion... He is sorta that exception that proves the point. Wanna prove you are a Noxian Warrior and should bask in glory and power? Then you better chop some heads off before Sion Ults in and Shield Dunks them all... Because hell, Swain isn't exactly going to stop him...

Yeah, I don't think Noxian legions fight like Roman legions. (I was mentioning it less for the specific tactics and unit composition and more for the idea of putting your rookies out in front.) Roman legionaries had a very…methodical fighting strategy. You held your big shield up, and you thrust with your short sword. Those few Roman combat manuals we still have today are quite firm that legionaries are not to slice or chop: you poke and poke. That's the exact opposite of fighting with an axe. You can't really form up a shield wall with battle axes. Axes suck at defense. You don't block the enemy's blows with your shield while waiting for an opening: you throw everything behind a swing that will either kill them or get you killed. Perhaps that's also part of the emphasis on psychology and intimidation: Noxian legions rely on overwhelming the enemy and driving them into a rout.

So maybe that's another gripe: not enough axes. An axe feels like a great Noxian weapon.

But I don't think Noxians are idiot berserkers. It doesn't seem inconsistent with the Noxian ethos to wait for the right moment, then hit with everything you have and find glory or death. But if you deliberate too long, a Darius might take your head off and step into your newly vacant position.

terkmc2 votes

Weird, Noxian stragegy and philosphy of might got me thinking Swain would be a more Blitzkrieg strat guy. Overwhelm and rout the enemy. Noxian have absolute confidence in their strength, and to them being stronger means they deserve to win, and Swain would probably use that confidence and zeal from this troops and their eagerness to prove themselves for a very hard hitting, shock troop focused Blitzkrieg, with Sion-ish character being the shock troop, charging in and disrupting enemy formation, and then mass number to swoop in afterward with a very strong offensive front line aka Darius, hinging on momentum and overwhelming the enemy to win

Oleandervine3 votes

I think that the Noxians were well represented. Not all of Noxus is going to be overly glorified heroes - there have to be run of the mill lackeys in order for those in power to show dominance. Noxus is based around strength as a favorable asset, and not necessarily pure evil, despite the fact that leadership is corrupt and their virtues tend to allow rampant use of necromancy and dark magics. At base level, Noxus is still a highly militarized nation that relies on structure, rank, and extreme discipline. Without such features, the leadership would be unable to control the armies and convince the people to commit these warmongering heinous acts. Visually, the basic army has to maintain some semblance of unity and normality, especially when dealing with international conflict, as they don't want to reveal all their corruption right off the bat.

Sirabell2 votes

Ezreal Noxians, I hate those guys...

Chromatic Eagle1 votes

Well it was a long time ago. Maybe they were more mello than they are now.

Talll1 votes

I too enjoyed the flavor, gave me that choclate ice cream flavor which is my fav

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