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The Next Ultimate Skin (Part 2)

Electro522··35 votes·23,164 views

EDIT: PLEASE READ BEFORE CONTINUING

It seems as if these posts of mine continue to get traffic even long after they were made. I suspect some people Google the next Ultimate skin, and are sent here. If you are one of these people, just know that some info might be a bit dated. This thread is my second post on this topic, and is quite dated. Most info you will find here does not match my current stance on the Next Ultimate Skin. If you would like to see my most recent stance, please read this thread. Thanks for reading!

Hello Everybody!

So around 8 months ago (damn.....its been that long?), I made a thread detailing my thoughts on the next ultimate skin. You can find the original post here.

In that thread, I went into how I think Riot selects certain champs for legendary/ultimate skins, laying out a set of guidelines that they may or may not stick to. I also laid out my prediction of the next Ultimate skin, which I thought was going to be Orianna. Unfortunately, I had made the post long after Elementalist Lux was leaked, and, in fact, just a couple weeks later, she was teased and released.

I also had the pleasure of having Kindlejack, one of the associate artists at Riot, chime in on the thread, and give some more detail on how they make skins. Also, just today (as of writing this) in fact, we had a Dev Blog come out from SUPERCAKES on "The State of Skins" which dived even more into how they decide what skins go to what champs. SUPERCAKES didn't go into anything on Ultimate skins, but she (I'm assuming......please correct me if I'm wrong) did give plenty of details which can aide this process of mine.

So, now that we have all of this new information at our fingertips, and that Elementalist Lux has found her home among the rift, lets dive in once more and see if we can accurately predict which champion will get the next Ultimate skin.

#The Guidelines

In my previous thread, I laid out 4 guidelines that I thought Riot possibly tries their best to follow when choosing a champ for a legendary/ultimate skin. Just remember that Riot does consider Ultimate skins as glorified legendary skins, so, any rules that may apply to legendary skins also apply to ultimate skins. The list is as follows:

  • The champion must not already have a legendary/ultimate skin in their line up.
  • When choosing a champ for a legendary, this is most likely the one rule Riot follows the most. They don't want to overload a champ's lineup of skins with really expensive ones, leaving all the others out to dry, and they've stuck to this rule for a very long time. The last champion to receive a legendary that already had one was Cho'gath, with the release of Battlecast Prime.
  • Champions should be at least 3 years old.
  • The youngest champ to receive a legendary so far has been Jinx, with the release of Star Guardian. The skin actually came out a little before her 3rd birthday, but it was close enough that she does fit this rule. (yes, Jinx is over 3 years old now....she'll be 4 in October).
  • There has to be a 6 month "grace" period after the champion was released or their previous skin was released before production on anew skin can begin.
  • If there is one rule that Riot would follow the least....it's most likely this one. They may come up with an idea that may take them far more than 6 months to make. That said, to avoid showing favoritism, thy do tend to stray away from champs that have recently gotten a skin.
  • Finish the team (this rule only apllies to ultimate skins)
  • I'll go into more detail on this rule further down.

I will say that, although I did enjoy Kindlejack's input on my thread.....he did essentially shoot down this entire list. There are no concrete guidelines Riot tries to follow when choosing champs for skins, and in fact, almost all of the artists on the skins team has their own personal set of guidelines that they follow that may not apply to the rest of the team. Even in the dev blog today, SUPERCAKES listed several factors that go into choosing a champ for a skin in general, and it's quite likely that not everyone on the skins team follows each guideline to a point, possibly ignoring some of them all together.

The selection process is far more simple at its core, to be honest. Generally, if Riot has an idea that they get excited about, chances are it'll be made into a skin. In my opinion, this actually improves the overall quality of the skins, because Riot isn't hindered by anything but timelines, and even then, they give estimates on how long a skin will take, and will gladly push any project back, or even shelve it completely if it simply isn't reaching their standards.

With that said, though, I still feel that these guidelines I created do hold some merit. Sure, Riot can break them at any time, but if you look at every legendary/ultimate skin, they still follow these 4 guidelines to a certain degree.

#Viable Champs

Looking at the guidelines I made, we can actually easily determine which champs are viable for not only legendary skins, but also ultimates as well. If we happen to use only the first 3 guidelines, we end up with 67 champs currently viable for a legendary skin. This number is never set in stone, always changing with champion releases, and more skin releases.

However, we aren't here for just legendary skins. No, we're here for the next Ultimate skin, and having to predict which champ will receive the next Ultimate out of 67 is quite the hurdle. This is where guideline #4 comes in: "Finish the team".

Now, what do I mean by this? Well, Riot likes to release skin lines that have the capability to host a full, real team in League. This means a Top, Jungler, Mid, ADC, and Support. The first batch of Pool Party skins follows this rule perfectly (Top-Renek; Jungle-Lee Sin; Mid-Ziggs; ADC-Graves; Support-Leona), and even the second batch does as well. If Riot does not release a full team of skins dedicated to a single theme, they will eventually finish it in the future. This is evident in the Star Guardian, PROJECT, and Blood Moon skins.

The Ultimate skins already have an ADC

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/R5MvGt7J9dE/maxresdefault.jpg

A jungler

http://orig07.deviantart.net/0cf9/f/2013/203/0/a/spirit_guard_udyr_walpaper_by_patweiss-d6eojel.jpg

a support

https://static.lolwallpapers.net/2015/02/djsona-fan-art.png

and, of course, most recently, a mid laner

https://yurixy.files.wordpress.com/2016/11/elementalist-lux-loading-cards-by-kyomon.jpg

So, all this leaves us with is a top laner. I can say with 99% certainty that the next Ultimate skin WILL go to a top laner. If it doesn't, I will be extremely surprised. So, this cuts our list of 67 champs down to just 17. They are:

-Aatrox Garen Irelia JarvanIV Jax -Malphite Maokai Pantheon Poppy Riven -Shen Singed Swain Trundle Tryndamere -MonkeyKing Yorick

Now, mind you, this list changes over time. It could shrink considerably, or grow. Also, notice, I did add in champs that have recently gotten reworks (i.e. Yorick). A rework keeps a champion from getting a skin, but once the rework is released, they are immediately put back on the list (just look at Mecha Zero Sion). There are also champs I left out for that very reason (i.e. Urgot and Morde).

#The Prediction

Now, here comes the fun part. This is where we want to try and dive into the minds of the Artistic team over at Riot. Now, remember that the list above is nothing but speculation. Riot could easily throw us a curve ball, and give either Xayah and Rakan the next Ultimate skins. It is HIGHLY unlikely, but they can do it.

In order to make my prediction, I actually looked at how the past 4 Ultimates were designed.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/R5MvGt7J9dE/maxresdefault.jpg

Pulsefire Ezreal could more than likely be considered a Legendary by Riot's current standards, however, the unique tech of it changing its model when you level up allows it to keep its Ultimate status. Riot has even stated that trying to update the skin to their current standards will be a nightmare, due to the amount of unique tech and coding this skin has (not to mention, its 4 different models in 1). That said, they just did take steps to try to bring it up to par with even their legendaries, giving it new textures, particles, animations, and I believe even more voice lines surprisingly.

http://orig07.deviantart.net/0cf9/f/2013/203/0/a/spirit_guard_udyr_walpaper_by_patweiss-d6eojel.jpg

When Riot designs a champion, one of their main goals is clarity. They want both the player playing the champion, and playing against the champion, to be able to understand just what the hell is going on at any given time. Udyr does this by having a small cut out picture of an animal pop up above his head whenever he changes stances, not to mention his model shifts to the specific stance.

Well, with Spirit Guard Udyr, they took this clarity, and cranked it up past 11 until the knob broke off! Not only do you have FIVE different models (at the start of the game, he starts with an idle model), these models also transform into more dynamic models once you max level a particular stance. Oh, and lets not forget that the animals HAVE MODELS OF THEIR OWN!!! There is SO MUCH packed into this skin, it is more than well deserving of the Ultimate title, and more than likely Riot's baseline as to what the Ultimate skins should achieve.

https://static.lolwallpapers.net/2015/02/djsona-fan-art.png

This was more of an experiment than anything for Riot. They incorporated the dynamic leveling of the past 2 skins (the music becomes more pronounced and dynamic the more you level certain abilities), and added in more than one model (essentially, this skin is 3 in 1). But what makes this skin obviously stand out is its music.

Never before have we seen something able to change the music of the game. Its always been the same, and we've listened to it enough that it has become nothing more than background noise, lost within the noise of battle. But DJ Sona changed that for the better. Its too bad we don't have other similar tools in game like DJ Sona, because, lets be honest, who still truthfully listens to the in game music? It's not that its bad, its just that its been around for so long.

https://yurixy.files.wordpress.com/2016/11/elementalist-lux-loading-cards-by-kyomon.jpg

And, lastly, but certainly not least, our most recent Ultimate skin. One goal of all ultimate skins is to push Riot's tech and art to the absolute limit, which not only unlocks certain aspects of skin design they couldn't do before, but also teaches them a great deal of skin design as well. Each of these skins has allowed them to create future skins with even more interesting tech and aesthetics behind them. For example, DJ Sona's hair enabled Riot to make Arcade Ahri's tail change colors in a far more natural way (smething that Arcade Hecarim could also use for his tail). With Elementalist Lux, I suppose the goal was to see exactly how interactive they can make a skin.

In the past, we have had only small options to change the model of our skin. Neon Strike Vi can lower and raise her goggles, and Night Hunter Rengar can raise and lower his hood. Really the only skins that allowed even more customization of the model in game were Spirit Guard Udyr, and DJ Sona, being able to switch between the different models at will. Elementalist Lux takes this entire concept and knocks it out of the goddamned solar system. Sticking with the Ultimate skins unique aspect of becoming more complex as you progress through the game, this skin actually builds up energy when damaging champs. Once enough energy is gathered, you then have the option to transform Lux into a completely different model based on the element you chose twice, allowing you to choose from TEN DIFFERENT MODELS, each model of which is actually at a higher quality than most regular skins. If you don't count the unique VO that came with the entire skin, each model the skin comes with can be worth 1350 RP on their own.

Now, looking at these skins does give you a slight idea as to what kind of champs Riot looks at for an Ultimate skin.

Ezreal is the only outlier here, because he, as a champion, doesn't bring very much to the table. This, makes sense, however, since Pulsefire was the very first Ultimate skin. It was, more or less, an experiment that happened to work out.

Udyr, however, is very unique in that his stances make him unlike any other champion. I believe it was Phreak who once said that learning certain champs is easier than others due to how they perform. ADCs perform very similar to each other, essentially learning one means you've learned them all. A champ like Ryze, however, has no comparison, and thus, is more difficult to pick up. Udyr is a champ similar to Ryze in that there is no real comparison to him. Also, his stances laid a very good foundation for Riot to build off of.

Sona was chosen from a very simple fact about her: she is the only champ in the game directly associated with music (and no, Bard doesn't count). Making a DJ version of her was just easy! So easy, in fact, that they took the idea, and ran with it. The end result was being able to change the music in game.

Lux, when looked at a certain angle, isn't all that unique actually. However, I'd say that this makes sense, since they wanted a skin with just so much in it, choosing a champ with a relatively easy model to work with would speed up the process quite a bit. However, the Elemetanlist theme simply makes as much sense for Lux as the DJ theme does for Sona.

So, the champ we want to look for is both possibly unique, and has a potential idea that is easy enough for Riot to take off with. So, after all of this, I have compiled my top 5 champs for the next Ultimate skin ranging from least likely, to most.

5: Shen

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-jVyrJosBbgk/VDwqU2lRXXI/AAAAAAAAbKc/FqICli7tM_w/s1600/Shen_Splash_0.jpg

When you think about it, it's surprising how all of these champs have gone so long without a legendary skin. Sure, some like Poppy and Yorick just recently got updated, but still. Shen is one of those champs. He has a decent lineup of skins, but none of them are on a truly epic scale. I'd say he's far more deserving of a legendary skin, but there could be potential for an Ultimate. I'm not entirely sure what that might be, though.

4: Riven

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ErQh30YIs5M/UcDuqecajQI/AAAAAAAAE38/9sWHEjIJ-S4/s1600/Riven_Splash_0.jpg

I had Riven on my previous list as well, so my stance on her getting a legendary some time soon still stands. despite what you may think of her, she is one of the more unique champs in the game that has almost an endless supply of fantasies that could fit her. Seeing her blade come alive, and constantly change while in battle would be awesome in my book.

3: Swain

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-iWNhoie3ejU/Vw1CKbPYTdI/AAAAAAAA5yI/Q0uz1Cg_X-0VPdSoM_PUwyWK0fh04FaNwCLcB/s1600/Swain_Splash_0.jpg

Swain is not only in need of a legendary, but also a skin in general. If I recall, though, Swain might be on Riot's VGU list, meaning we may not see anything for him for quite some time. That said, there is still one certain.........ahem scaly.........concept that was supposedly shelved that they could pick back up at any time.

2: Irelia

http://i.imgur.com/lMVYUuI.jpg

See, Irelia would be my number 1 pick, however, Riot has stated several times that she is actually quite far up their list of potential VGU candidates, far enough, in fact, that we could see work started on her after either Urgot or Evelynn (this isn't confirmed, just speculation). So, don't expect anything for Irelia for quite some time. However....we could be wrong. I mean, there are SO many things they can do with her theme.

1: Yorick

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-FjodByo9IyQ/V7yKtm-cfjI/AAAAAAAA9zo/kC5yv1KnvYw-MVqGo8D1jnTR4d1_eZEEgCLcB/s1920/yorick-reveal-banner.jpg

Now wouldn't that be one hell of a skin to receive after 6 years of not having one. In SUPERCAKES dev blog, she did state that they have started work on a Yorick skin. She gave no details on what it might be, but that we could potentially see it within the next year (along with others, such as Cass, Viktor and Illaoi). Well, Elementalist Lux did come out around 6 months ago, meaning, if Yorick is to see a skin around the end of that time frame, it would mean around 18 months since Lux came out.........about the same amount of time it took for Lux to come out after DJ Sona.

Yorick is quite easily the one champ that has gone the longest without a skin. 6 whole years.....nearly as long as the game has been out. So, one could argue that, as an apology gift for the lack of skins he has, Riot could very well be putting the pedal to the metal on his next skin. Besides, the number of stuff he has going on would make any skin made for him more of a hassle anyway, similar to Zyra, and the amount of stuff she has going on. So, why not go all out, and see exactly how nearly game breaking they can make his next skin?

What kind of skin could we see? Well, one aspect of the Ultimate skins is that they are all future versions of the champs. Ez is a chrono-criminal, running from the future version of Caitlyn; Udyr finds enlightenment, and actually ends up working with the Spirits, instead of having them control him; Sona gets a MASSIVE upgrade to her etwhal; and Lux masters all forms of Elemental magic. I'm not sure what kind of future version we could see of Yorick, considering he is effectively immortal, but we could see a version of him where he actually accomplishes his quest of returning the Shadow Iles to their former glory. I, for one, am all for seeing several different versions of The Maiden packed into one skin.

#Conclusion

And there you have it folks! Please remember, that all of this is just speculation. I could be right, or I could be dead wrong. Either way, it will certainly be interesting to see what Riot cooks up next.

Feel free to give your own ideas to who might be getting the next Ultimate skin, and why. I'd love to hear your guys' reasoning.

TL;DR

I predict that Yorick will be the next champ to receive an Ultimate skin. There are plenty of reasons for this that I won't go into since I just stated them all above in the article.

87 Comments

RiotKindlejack34 votes

There's a lot of impressive reasoning on show here great job! You're really thinking like a developer. Very enjoyable read.

Electro5222 votes

Kindlejack! You know, it doesn't really surprise me that you're here.

But, thank you!

TimX24968B6 votes

Just wondering, If ezreal's ultimate got a visual update, will udyr's visual update get a visual update sometime?

Electro52218 votes

I'll save Kindlejack the effort and answer this for you:

No.

Spirit Guard Udyr is already at such a high quality, it will more than likely be above Riot's standard for years to come (that, and the amount of tech that goes into it is probably even more frightening than PFE's). The only thing that could potentially change it is a VGU for Udyr, which, after his recent update, must be nowhere on Riot's radar. Even if they were to update his base skin, SGU will most likely go untouched.

TimX24968B7 votes

You missed the meme by at least two galaxies over your head.

Supreme Senpai692 votes

Don't worry I got it. I didn't laugh but I gave a sort of half grin and exhaled more air out of my nostrils than usual. Good job. Proud of u my son.

Electro5229 votes

Oh, I got the joke. But I also thought it was partly serious. If not......oh well.

Snaketits2 votes

The next ultimate skin should go to Cass, period. This is a season 1 champ we're talking about, she has been neglected for far too long already. She didn't even get a VU, the only update she received was to her textures back in 2014. And don't get me started on her complete lack of skinreleases.

LostFr0st2 votes

You'd think a champ that sheds its skin would be easier to make a skin for huh.

Sukishoo2 votes

She's more of a midlaner though and we already got one of those XD

paisy5 votes

No bias found here

StigtriX4 votes

I think Shen deserves at least a 1350 RP skin with some unique effects. Even though Warlord Shen has unique AA animations, none of his skins have unique VFX or SFX, which really make them feel less valuable.

What I would like the most for a new Shen skin:

A cool Taunt with new SFX and VFX Dash sound: https://youtu.be/BfaToo_2dJw?t=55s http://www.mortalkombatwarehouse.com/mk2/screenshots/12.png Something akin to the brutal sound effect of Johnny Cage's Shadow Kick (first sound after the bubbling water), which leaves a trace of green (and sometimes red) silhouettes. The silhouette effect would be really nice, and is easier to implement now that the range is a tad longer than it used to be.

A trace in the ground where the Spirit Sword has been dragged The sword should leave a trace in its path which is visible to friendly players at all times, but only visible to enemy players if they can see Shen.

Several AA animations, like God Fist Lee Sin has Shen has a kit that makes it challenging to implement interesting VFX. It would therefore make sense to focus more on his AA animations than for other champions when adding something unique to his more expensive skins:

  • Cycles through several standard AA animations
  • Offensive AA animations when he uses Taunt or hits an enemy player with his Spirit Sword
  • Defensive AA animations when his shield is active, or when he is shielded by an item or a skill

This stays true to his kit, and adds a lot of flavour to skills that alone can be considered subtle when compared to other champions.

An ultimate with unique and more advanced animations and VFX I would really like an ult without the standard circles that form around him, and instead have a more interesting and active animation, like:

  • Shen summons two spirit ninja, which duplicate his hand gesture before they become one with him and he is teleported to the selected player
  • Shen is enveloped in a purple fog which snakes around him. His eyes light up as he performs a series of quick sword moves, making it seem like the blades spin like helicopter blades around his body before he disappears with a "POOF!"
  • Shen throws a purple smoke bomb on the ground. Purple smoke arises as he is transformed into a bigger copy of the Spirit Sword. The Spirit Sword remains for one second after Shen has teleported
Fairyfleur3 votes

I would love a cosmic guardian Shen

RiotKindlejack6 votes

This is some cool stuff! I agree Shen is definitely one of those few champs that hasn't gotten a skin in 3+ years. He had a mid level rework but that's been done for a while now. I'd love to do something really solid for Shen - something that makes his spirit sword interesting as that's now a huge part of his visual design.

Chromatic Eagle1 votes

As someone said, Cosmic Shen. Based on an eclipse (matches his duality theme).

StigtriX1 votes

Thanks! What about Deadly Shen? That would give you a lot of room to go over-the-top with his VFX, and the MK dash would fit the theme :) http://img15.deviantart.net/44f6/i/2016/059/d/0/shenpool_visual_update_by_exaxuxer-d9tfd4n.jpg From Exaxuxer on Deviantart: http://exaxuxer.deviantart.com/ (WARNING! Checked his profile, and it's one of those o_O' HIDE YO KIDS!)

And for Shen's recall (he has to pay for the ride first, though!): http://im.ziffdavisinternational.com/t/ign_in/news/h/high-moons/high-moons-deadpool-makes-debut-appearance-on-xbox_1am9.640.jpg If you do make this a recall animation he needs to scream "RED ROCKET!" :D The rocket should move slowly back and forth, while making screeching sounds: "Looks like the red rocket needs to be oiled up!" :3

His Spirit Sword could be a giant squeaky toy hammer: http://i00.i.aliimg.com/photo/v0/222566992/Hammer_toys_sledge_hammer_toys_plastic_hammer.jpg Or a similar toy sword. It makes different sqeuaky sounds depending on if it is summoned or if it hits an enemy.

Zach Sandwhich8 votes

Just gonna put my thoughts out there.

I personally think if we are going to get one, it will be for Shen. Reasons for this are:

  1. Swain and Irelia are on the VGU List, so probably no skins for them in the near future.

  2. Riven was on that leak, which has been right so far, with an Angelblade skin, and I don't think they'd give Riven an Ultimate skin so soon after getting one.

  3. This is probably the weakest reasoning, because Yorick does make the most sense for getting an Ultimate skin (because he has become a meme for not having a skin in forever.), but he really isn't that popular. Looking at it from a business standpoint, I don't think Riot would make an ultimate skin for a champion as unpopular as Yorick.

That's my thoughts on it, but you made a lot of good points in this post!

Yadid1 votes

Could you link for the VGU list? I know that Urgot and Eve VGU's are confirmed. I've read a rioter talk about thoughts on a Kayle VGU (likely entailing a Morg Update). My brain's telling me there's a couple I'm missing alongside Akali, but I can't find any other list than the VGU list. I coulda sworn there was a VU list.

Very smart pick up on the Riven leak. For anyone's reference, the leak is here. Interesting to see it's not marked as legendary like Cait's (which doesn't conflict with the hypothetical 6-month rule I'm sure you're referring to).

I don't have the time it took to make each ultimate skin on hand, but OP really set the last nail in the coffin mentioning the time-frame on Yorick. Riot DOES tease bits in advance... Also, IIRC both Yorick and Zac are some of the tougher texturing champs due to either quantity or quantity of moving parts. If there's tech to push to the limit, then I think Yorick's Maiden/ghouls are both fresh tech and I'm sure Riot could conceive the inconceivable to make an Ultimate happen.

Another total aside, Shen just got the chromas as well. I can't wait to get buy Warlords and get the Earth Kingdom Shen. :3

Neamean1 votes

I don't think Udyr was that popular when they release Spirit Guard Udyr.

Tattersall5 votes

For a while now, I've had an idea for a Jax ultimate skin. First of all, he IS on your list of potential candidates, so he already fits that bill. Second, he has a mechanic that only seven champions in the game have: His attack speed is consistently and regularly changing. For reference, the other champions are Jinx, Udyr, Volibear, Olaf, Aatrox, and Ezreal.

Anyway, my idea is that Jax's model changes based on how much attack speed he has currently. I imagine it being like, a berserker theme. Jax has become an ultimate warrior by gaining some kind of power, maybe demonic (think Aatrox), in the form of a new (and real) weapon and new armor, and the more damage he does, the more this power is fed.

I imagine it like the Silent Armor worn by one version of Wonder Girl in the DC universe. The Armor is connected to the wearer, and in combat it slowly grows out of the wearer's body. http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/wonderwoman/images/9/93/Wonder_Girl_New_52.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20121208193312 https://static4.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11/117518/2532488-img003.jpg https://static4.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11/117518/2532485-img006.jpg

The Armor is another being though, and if not controlled it will consume the wearer. Hence the demon theme. So yeah, model changes based on his attack speed. Not even the stacks on his passive, but his attack speed. It would be worthy of an Ultimate if Riot could make the transition between forms smooth.

Electro5221 votes

Dann son.

And you have yet to make this a thread, why...?

Tattersall1 votes

And you have yet to make this a thread, why...?

http://cs5.pikabu.ru/images/big_size_comm/2015-08_3/1439295980186686966.png

I guess I'll go do that.

Edit: I did it.

Kuzja14 votes

I'd like an ultimate skin for Corki or Rumble but someone made this for Heimerdinger : http://img03.deviantart.net/f4d2/i/2014/288/6/0/league_of_legends__heimerdinger__the_white_by_diosl-d82z80z.jpg Seriously. I want to meet the guy who made this. I wanna shake his hand.

ModKnightsKemplar3 votes

You have great thoughts here. I'm about to start telling you why I disagree, but know that I respect the amount of work you did, and you are most certainly spot on with a lot of your reasoning.

5: Shen needs another rework. I seriously doubt he's next on the list for that reason alone. His last rework was extremely unpopular, and now he's a generally unpopular champion. I think that because of that, they'll hold off of him.

4: Riven, I'm with you. She's likely to be next.

3: Swain needs that scaly skin, but he's so high on the VGU list that I think it will not happen until after VGU. And, like you said, that means he's out of the running for now. Riot has even said that he's not being considered for new skins BECAUSE his model and kit are too outdated.

Now, the EXCEPTION on #3 is if they release Swain's VGU WITH the ultimate skin. I could see them doing that at some point, and Swain would actually be an excellent candidate for that, since he has a #hyped skin that we all want to see and buy.

4: Irelia is also in a weird spot, gameplay-wise. Riot has acknowledged that she's a bit stat-checky, and she'll be VGU'd at some point. You agreed with that up there, so I find it weird that she made the list in the first place.

5: Yorick is just plain unpopular. I don't see how they could justify spending that much money on him when he's in the dumpster in terms of play rate. That doesn't mean he's a bad champ. But they do have to recover revenue on this project, and I think doing Yorick is a bad way to go about that, generally.

Riven, though. If I were a Rioter on the skins team, that would be my number 1 choice, FOR SURE. They would absolutely make money, not only because Riven is moderately popular, but because she's one of those champs that has a TON of mains. And those mains want to look flashy and awesome, so a large number of them would buy it for sure. That's just good business. If ANYONE had a good idea for an ultimate Riven skin (and her broken sword is RIPE for alternate fantasies about her), that would be it for me. Sold.

Electro5224 votes

Ultimate skin's are not made to make money. Every ultimate skin they've made, with the possible exception of Lux, have garnered them a net loss in revenue (no one has said anything about what Lux made). So, even though popularity does play a role in the selection process, Ultimate skims largely ignore this rule.

Udyr is probably the best example of this. Since when has he ever been a popular champ?

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

I'd like to see numbers on that. If they're actually just making ultimate skins to garner good-will, then I'm suddenly worried about the future of the program, frankly. Businesses that don't adjust their practices to make profit don't tend to last very long. Gotta pay the wonderful people who make these skins, after all (and the investors).

Electro5224 votes

I'm not saying that's the case for every skin, just the Ultimates. For example, the "meme killer" skin's of Baker Pantheon and Blood Moon Diana were most likely cash grabs, and they most likely saw even more revenue come out of those skins than usual.

Really only Ultimates are made without the concept of money in mind (though, it probably played a small role in Lux).

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

Again, I'd like to see a Rioter confirm that. No business succeeds without making a profit. Riot doesn't like to put it in those terms, because they don't want us to think of it that way; this IS very much a passion project for them. But I'd be absolutely, totally shocked to learn that money isn't part of the discussion.

Take hextech crafting; there's no reason to have that if you aren't thinking about making money. When Riot says "people seem to want these systems," what they mean is "people vote with their wallets that these systems are something that they like." No one asked for gemstones in hextech crafting. It's a way to keep their business viable, and unlike many players, I do not hold a grudge about that. I want these talented people to keep drawing a paycheck and updating this lovely game. They deserve a profit for their hard work.

Fondling Gems1 votes

I imagine it plays a role, but not everything a company does directly relates to money. For example ultimate skins might not be profitable, but if they cause an increase in player playrate/interest in the game (which they do, think about how crowded the servers get during those times, you still see people fighting and then requeuing for that champ for weeks after an ultimate is released.) then ultimate skins can be profitable in a round about way.

As such ultimate skins play an important role in garnering interest. It is like announcer packs, which make no money directly, but make people want to play the game more and as such help bring in revenue just by making people enjoy the game more and thus be more likely to spend money on it, even on unrelated projects.

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

Of course! There are many parts of the game that they do just to keep people playing.

However, the ultimate skins are the most premium product in the game (arguably). That's the reason that I think the ultimate skins, in particular, are part of the profit margin for Riot. They cost an awful lot to develop compared to other skins, announcer packs, etc.

When a company is selling something, it's not often at a loss. When it is (gaming consoles, for example), it's under the assumption that customers will buy related items to offset that cost. That's good business. The ultimate skins, I think, are the thing that Riot is selling so they can take a loss on the core game (which, as we all remember, has a cost of exactly $free).

To me, trying to imagine how ultimate skins being sold at a loss has led to the current situation is pretty magical thinking. I can't make the [admittedly imaginary] numbers add up in that case. They are making close to a billion dollars a year. I doubt they are doing that by selling their most premium products at a loss.

And again, just for emphasis, I don't see that as cynical. I see it as hopeful. I WANT them to make money on these skins. They are awesome, and I want more of them.

Fondling Gems1 votes

The thing is that the amount of work put into those skins might just be more than they make back. It wouldn't surprise me if a lot of Riot's profits come from cheaper skins. I own a LOT of skins, but only 2 ultimates, and I got one from a mystery gift, and had a chance to get another from hextech. Admittedly I bought the DJ Sona that I own for myself and 2 of my friends, but of the 600+ dollars I have spent on League skins I have dropped less than $100 on ultimate skins. Considering those ultimates cost far more to make than the other ones that I own it wouldn't surprise me in the least if Riot doesn't always break even on them.

Note a couple things though. First of all after the skins have been made purchasing ultimate skins is better for Riot, it is when you include the cost to make them compared to the cost/buy rate of other skins that implies they aren't as impactful.

As a side note I am totally in agreement with you, I am trying to be positive, I just think that Riot is going to keep making them not because they turn a profit on there own, but because they are really freaking cool, make players love the game, and get Rioters excited too. I also think they probably turn a profit in the big picture, if you compare Riot as of now to if they never released any ultimates, because I know that when I bought DJ Sona I also bought a bunch of other skins too.

Back to the original point though I agree that it isn't likely that Urgot will get an ultimate skin due to his small playerbase. Even if ultimate skins don't break even, Riot still probably wants to get as much of a return on them as possible, and an Urgot Ultimate wouldn't provide as much hype for many people.

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

Yeah, Robertsmash's comment below down there is a nice addition to the conversation. He makes it sound like they do make money off of them, but less than other skins. That's something I would be willing to believe, for sure. He did not link anything, though.

Robertsmash1 votes

I don't have numbers or remember where I read it, but I also read a Rioter say that ultimate skins tend to have the least return on their investment by far (maybe even a loss, they weren't talking numbers), which makes sense. Not many players will buy an ultimate skin. The recent Lux ultimate has more models than any skin before and a unique VO for each model, so I'd be surprised if they broke even on the budget for that one.

The same Rioter statement I read also said that generally as the tiers of skins go down, the more money it makes for them. Doesn't seem unbelievable to me, Riot can afford to "lose" money on an ultimate (if they really do) because they make huge revenue from other microtransactions.

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

That's highly interesting to me. I'd love it if someone had the link to that so I could read it.

I mean, when you're wrong, you're wrong, amirite? XD I'm glad it's working for them, either way. Love this game, love that content.

Sukishoo2 votes

4: Riven, I'm with you. She's likely to be next.

Highly doubt-able as she has a new skin coming up sometime in the next few patches called Angleblade (seen in the leak which has been correct so far).

Atreus Jones3 votes

I could see a Gravelord Yorick, legendary, since the idea literally writes itself, and the only other champ with a gravelord skin, is Azir, a champ with abilties that revolve around his soldiers.

Or maybe an Ultimate Yorick skin, where yes, he does cure the Shadow Isles, but the maiden finally gets the slip on Yorick and he becomes a Herald of the Maiden, marching across the map, every so many souls Yorick takes makes the Maiden stronger and "completes her" and as she continues to becoe "completed" Yorick's form begins to change with it, being affected by the Maiden's power

Dragon Master1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Helblade Master,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=tFLqnHcY,comment-id=0022,timestamp=2017-05-05T05:20:41.425+0000)

I could see a Gravelord Yorick, legendary, since the idea literally writes itself, and the only other champ with a gravelord skin, is Azir, a champ with abilties that revolve around his soldiers.

Or maybe an Ultimate Yorick skin, where yes, he does cure the Shadow Isles, but the maiden finally gets the slip on Yorick and he becomes a Herald of the Maiden, marching across the map, every so many souls Yorick takes makes the Maiden stronger and "completes her" and as she continues to becoe "completed" Yorick's form begins to change with it, being affected by the Maiden's power

I really like that idea.

Golden Tager X2 votes

Jax could very well be a high priority champ for that. Think about it, what more could you want other than a Jax skin where you get to choose armor and weapons, and feel like the grandmaster at arms.

Mira Arya Enthe2 votes

I think since we don't have a legendary Tank it should be Shen

paisy3 votes

Sion, Galio, Cho Gath

Raxistaicho1 votes

Probably nothing in this game will ever make me more bitter that Lux got the mid ultimate skin. I thought Ahri had a good shot at it :(

Electro5221 votes

I was surprised too. I actually thought it was going to be a legendary, but.......hey, at least it exceeded our expectations, right?

Raxistaicho2 votes

Well I mean even if Ahri got it it would probably suck. Riot doesn't ever make interesting skins for her. What I wouldn't give for a skin that presents her as the culmination of her previous soul-sucking ways as if she never achieved a conscious, a demonic fox specter like: http://68.media.tumblr.com/36e3c8484dbbfbba51733727275ee94e/tumblr_nzs4j2rwgu1u0mlewo1_1280.jpg

Supreme Senpai692 votes

Wouldn't that be if she never soul sucked to begin with? Since sucking out souls makes her more human

Skins Project1 votes

Lore alteration tho..

Now there's no reason for her to do it other then to stay alive, or magically able

Bunb0t2 votes

{quoted}

Probably nothing in this game will ever make me more bitter that Lux got the mid ultimate skin. I thought Ahri had a good shot at it :(

And I was ecstatic lux got it, I was certain that Ahri would get it

Yadid1 votes

Riven is off the list! Repeat, RIVEN IS OFF THE LIST!

GragasMyLove1 votes
  • Yorick
darko211 votes

nice comment dude i appreciate your opinion about ultimate skin and i recommend ultimate skin for Shen because he my favorite champion and truly an abandoned champion from riot cu in the field of justice!

shurastick1 votes

How about illaoi??

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