Zaun: A critical moment for community engagement

CupcakeTrap··81 votes·35,403 views

http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100917001519/leagueoflegends/images/d/db/Zaun.jpg

EDIT: Before I get all serious, let me just point out that Summoner cHAncEman1292 has proposed the idea of a Zaunite Champion who takes the form of a talking owl with a flamethrower. Can we make this happen? Can we please make this happen? Alright, on to the serious stuff.


You know, the owl might have big goggles, and—okay, okay, right. Community engagement.

Do you care about Zaun and its Champions? Are you invested in these aspects of the League storyverse? If so, I get the feeling that it's time for you to come forward and speak your piece. If I'm right, and Zaun is next in line for a major rewrite, then what we say in the next few weeks might make a difference, but what we say a few months from now will surely make no difference at all. So let's get to work before this window of opportunity closes.

A note on tone

This post is inherently something of a "worst-case scenario" analysis. I'm talking about risks and dangers, which might give it a negative tone. To be clear: I really like a lot of Riot's creative team, and I do believe they've heard us on two key points: first, that we would like them to dial down the mega-retcon blank-slate rewrites, building upon the old lore rather than demolishing and replacing it; and second, that when they do set out to fundamentally rewrite something, we're at least given a meaningful opportunity to engage with them, rather than having retcons slapped down as shock reveals that come out of nowhere and radically alter the League universe. I get the impression that they are trying to improve in these areas, and do care about engaging with us. However, I feel compelled to prepare for the worst, even as I hope for the best.

Shock reveals and community engagement

I believe it's important that the lore community be involved in the sometimes quite drastic rewrites of League canon that have been taking place. The principle obstacle is a veil of secrecy that prevents us from knowing what's lined up for the next big retcon. Without knowing what Riot's taking aim at next, we're left taking shots in the dark.

A hypothetical example may serve to illustrate what I mean, and why I find it discouraging. Suppose that the community spent weeks and weeks talking about (say) Demacia, discussing what we consider its core elements and themes, which aspects we wouldn't mind Riot altering and which aspects we feel need to remain consistent with prior lore. We collectively spend thousands upon thousands of hours of our time working on this, putting our thoughts forward for Riot to consider. Then…silence. Not a word from Riot. We hope that they're quiet because they're busily working on Demacia, and that someone has seen our discussions and forwarded them along. Time goes by. Then we log in one day and see some flashy video that announces a complete from-scratch rewrite of…Ionia. We were going to try to talk Ionia next. But we find that it's too late. Our Demacia discussions drop off the radar, and unless Riot does some really hardcore forum-searching, they won't notice it when they go to give Demacia the steamroller treatment. In essence, we would have at that point wasted a tremendous amount of energy accomplishing absolutely nothing.

A critical moment for Zaun

I get the feeling that Riot has tipped its hand, and that Zaun is going to be its next target. I propose that we seize this opportunity to talk Zaun among ourselves, and try to develop some kind of consensus that might hopefully inform what Riot does next. A few months from now, the changes (if they are coming) will be locked in, and our only recourse will be ineffectual griping about what's already decided. Let's seize the moment.

Hold on: who says they're rewriting Zaun?

In the comments below, some have questioned the assumption that Riot is going to be redoing factions one by one. That could well be the case. I would certainly be happy if so, but remember, it wasn't long ago that they addressed Summoners around the world to tell them that Summoners were being eradicated, and the League of Legends removed from League of Legends. I'd bet good money that they're not going to be using a light touch when they introduce Ekko.

If we luck out and Riot does stick to building upon Zaun's established lore, rather than tearing it up and starting over, then I would say this is still a critical moment for community engagement, as this is an important window of opportunity to discuss what you'd like to see them add to Zaun's theme.

So let's talk Zaun

I really dig Zaun as a setting, and did a lot of thinking and discussion about it while working on Hextech Revolution. At some point, I'd like to compile my thoughts into a larger post. For now, I'm just hoping to spark some discussion, and encourage the community to strike while the iron is hot. That said, here are some of my initial thoughts about Zaun.

Let's start with allusions and inspirations. (This is League of Legends, after all.) In Zaun, I see a combination of X-Men and Shadowrun. That means mutants, technology, grime, megacorporations, consumerism, slums, danger, and sprawling neon skyscrapers glowing through the smog. In terms of RL countries, it's very American: aggressively free-market, exciting but also volatile. Inequality and excess are major themes.

I think it's important that Zaun has no King or Grand General. There's some figurehead leader, sure, and some kind of council, but beneath this window dressing it's a deeply fragmented state, mostly run by competing megacorporations. It's hard to imagine a diehard Zaunite patriot, at least in the Demacian or even Noxian style, i.e., not in the sense of devotion to a state or supreme leader. You might have fanatic followers of Viktor, or rebellious mutants fighting alongside Zac, or idealistic social revolutionaries joining forces with Janna to push back against the moral and environmental corruption that has infected Zaunite society, but you don't have people charging into battle shouting, "FOR THE GLORY OF ZAUN! MAY CHAIRMAN MAGNUS DUNDERSON REIGN FOR A THOUSAND YEARS!"

Zaun doesn't even really have a common philosophy. (The closest it comes is the "screw it, TURN IT ON AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS!" attitude of its researchers and inventors.) Noxus has its obsession with strength and conflict, Ionia is all about balance, Demacians dedicate themselves to order and justice, yordles snuggle and praise the Mothership, and so on. Within Zaun you have bloodthirsty lunatics like Warwick and Mundo, diabolical masterminds like Singed, heroic revolutionaries like Janna and Zac, and differently heroic revolutionaries like Viktor. This schizophrenic diversity is, in my opinion, an important element of Zaun's personality.

Zaun is a technological civilization. In this sense, it is perhaps similar to Piltover. And you probably could get Zaunites and Piltovians to agree on certain principles, if you kept the wording vague enough. But they diverge considerably in their methods. Piltover is more about the gradual refinement of known technologies, and the strategic deployment of those technologies to accomplish great works. Zaun is more interested in revolution than revision, and tends to flit from one half-baked breakthrough to the next. Neither is objectively "superior", of course; they strive for different ends, and develop different strengths. Zaun's certainly a lot more dangerous, but it's also a lot more exciting.

Politically, as much as any nation interacts with any other nation after the Great Retcon seemingly consigned the states of Valoran to their own pocket dimensions, Zaun's principal affiliation is with Noxus. Zaun's labs and factories churn out biochemical weapons for the Noxian war machine, and Zaun relies largely on Noxus for military protection, Zaunites not really being natural soldiers or warriors. The mutual animosity between Zaun and Ionia may have some deeper ideological roots, but it's also perfectly understandable as an outgrowth of this alliance with Noxus. If Zaun is in with Noxus, it stands to reason it's also got some Bilgewater connections. (Though it's not clear if Narrative is making Bilgewater out to be an irrelevant nowheresville or a big player in maritime trade.) For similar reasons, I severely doubt that Zaun gets on well with Demacia or Piltover. That said, I do suspect that Zaun's commercial empire is fairly extensive: Zaunites seem like the kind of people who would be really good at marketing fun consumer products that only sometimes melt your face off. I could see Zaunite pop culture sweeping through many Valoranian nations.

To condense that all down, here's what I consider crucial to Zaun's identity:

  • Dark but fun. Zaun's a pretty nasty place, especially if you're not in the 1%, but not in a grim sort of Noxian way. It's chaotic, modern, and exciting.
  • Tech: revolution over revision. Zaun is the capital of reckless experimentation and revolutionary breakthroughs. Zaunite scientists aren't necessarily smarter than Pilts, but they're more aggressive in their pursuit of The Next Big Thing, and less concerned about the consequences. Jayce makes a neat suit of armor that he can use to fight in the League of Legends some place where people might fight for some reason, while Viktor turns himself into a cyborg and starts a machine-cult dedicated to transcending mortal flesh. Zaun doesn't really do half-measures, and Zaunites do not like being boxed in.
  • Schizophrenic. It's important to me that Zaun is disorganized and fragmented. The League setting already has some utterly totalitarian states, like Demacia and Noxus. I think it's important that Zaun break from this pattern. If you're a Demacian, you're probably a stern law-and-order type. If you're a Noxian, you're probably a ruthless and determined sort. If you're a Zaunite…you might be a saint or a sadistic monster, or anything in between. About all that can be said about a given Zaunite is that they're probably kind of a freak in one way or another, assuming they're not part of the grayed-out corporate wage-slave masses (who are themselves pretty weird in their own way, in a fantasy setting).
  • Modern. In many ways, I think Zaun should feel the most "at home" to the people of 21st century Earth. I feel like if one of us were teleported to Runeterra, we'd be identified as Zaunites, with our beepy gadgets, short attention spans, strong individualism, cynicism about Great Causes, and addiction to stimulation.

Those are just my thoughts, though. I look forward to changing my mind as I read what other people have to say. And I hope that Riot does the same.

188 Comments

RiotBioluminescence37 votes

Hey CupcakeTrap :)

I like what you've got here, and my own personal opinion (you know my position) is that I agree with a lot of what you've said. I too see Zaun as being the rougher, more fragmented, version of what a technologically progressive view of Runeterra might be. I particularly like how you've described it as "Dark but fun" - that's the sort of Zaun I'd want to see more of, I think. The sort of place where the nightlife is incredible, but there's no guarantee that you'll wake up in the morning with both of your kidneys.

Of course, just the existence of wise cracking Ekko suggests that it's not all sweetness and light in Zaun - and I don't think to anyone here that sort of thinking is a surprise. Jinx and Mundo already gave me a view of Zaun that was out of control, maybe a bit funny, but with an underlying desperation. If Demacia is a place of obligation, and Piltover a place of achievement, then I saw Zaun as a place of hunger. Maybe not literal hunger - but certainly a deep seated need to live, and live hard. Live, despite the rest of the world saying you shouldn't. LIVE because no-one can take that right from you!

Thryale5 votes

to me, zaun is a mix of cyberpunk and steampunk with a bit of noir to mix things up. and if we really want something unique, give it a small dash of eldrich horror under the surface to keep things interesting.

RiotBioluminescence25 votes

{quoted}

to me, zaun is a mix of cyberpunk and steampunk with a bit of noir to mix things up. and if we really want something unique, give it a small dash of eldrich horror under the surface to keep things interesting.

I always saw us getting our eldrich horror from Bilgewater, myself. All those tentacles and mists and mysterious sea creatures. Nautilus is the best example I can think of to solidly tick that box. With you on the 'punk theme though.

VerusVis2 votes

can you please look at my threads and talk to me about them please

RiotBioluminescence10 votes

{quoted}

can you please look at my threads and talk to me about them please

Hey, VerusVis - I can look, but I am not a Rioter that works directly on League. I don't have any direct input on gameplay, champs, or anything like that, so unfortunately I doubt I'm the Rioter you're looking for :(

Thryale2 votes

but see, Bilgewater has always been the Tortuga of league to me. Very Pirates of the Caribbean, ya know?

I mean, sure Bilgewater capitalizes on the tentacle versions of eldrich horrors, but there are more horrors than just that. I'm thinking more subtle sinister here, than slimy gonna getcha, ya know?

RiotBioluminescence8 votes

{quoted}

but see, Bilgewater has always been the Tortuga of league to me. Very Pirates of the Caribbean, ya know?

I mean, sure Bilgewater capitalizes on the tentacle versions of eldrich horrors, but there are more horrors than just that. I'm thinking more subtle sinister here, than slimy gonna getcha, ya know?

I totally get the Tortuga vibe for Bilgewater, though I think of it in much broader strokes than just theme-park pirates - they're about the Bearded Lady beast, backstabbing politics, and trading both legal and 'less legal'. ;)

So can you explain what sort of eldrich vibe you mean then? My mind immediately turns to sinister cultists and unmentionably hideous tentacled horrors (paging Dr. Freud!) - so I wonder what element you see cropping up in Zaun?

Solideus11 votes

For me Frankenstein comes to mind as a book that best mirrors Zaunite gothic horror, ideals and worldview. I see various elements of that story reflected in Zauns populace and thirst for progress at any cost, as well as the collateral damage it causes others. The mad scientist, the collateral victim and the monster are the most important archetypes that run through Zaun, all practically lifted straight out of Frankenstein. The fact that Dr F.'s monster is made of criminal bodyparts also seems appropriate.

Old Man Teeto16 votes

{quoted} Bearded Lady beast

{quoted} Bearded Lady beast

{quoted} Bearded Lady beast

Gragas's wife confirmed.

Thryale3 votes

cult is definitely on the list, great for stuff like conspiracy plots and such, especially if you combine them with politices. (something I don't think bilgewater could pull off quite as well, tbh, cuz as you said they are more cut throat pirate-y politics, that and I just imagine bilgewater to be more on the anarchistic side of things)

as for the horror's side, zaun could have 'things that lurk beneath' like deep underground in abandoned labs long forgotten. So unlike bilgewater (which will have more supernatural horrors) zaun's horrors will be more of their own making. For feel, I'd say Metroid:Fusion would be a decent example as far as the atmosphere of fear. These horrors are more calculating and intelligent. As far as appearance, you could look to BloodBorne's boss 'One Reborn' considering it's a huge monstrocity composed entirely out of human body parts.

But for me, I think what would be scariest for zaun is the 'less you see' type of baddies. Shadows in the darkness that only hint at their true nature. Stuff like that would make for a great end game with zaun.

On the surface, I think deisel punk, steam punk, bio punk, and cyber punk all got together to genetically create something awesome. I mentioned noir cuz I feel like zaun isn't cut out for sunny days, so dark atmosphere that relies on their hextech lights giving off strange vibes would be sweet. And rain, don't forget all the rain.

RiotBioluminescence7 votes

{quoted}

cult is definitely on the list, great for stuff like conspiracy plots and such, especially if you combine them with politices. (something I don't think bilgewater could pull off quite as well, tbh, cuz as you said they are more cut throat pirate-y politics, that and I just imagine bilgewater to be more on the anarchistic side of things)

as for the horror's side, zaun could have 'things that lurk beneath' like deep underground in abandoned labs long forgotten. So unlike bilgewater (which will have more supernatural horrors) zaun's horrors will be more of their own making. For feel, I'd say Metroid:Fusion would be a decent example as far as the atmosphere of fear. These horrors are more calculating and intelligent. As far as appearance, you could look to BloodBorne's boss 'One Reborn' considering it's a huge monstrocity composed entirely out of human body parts.

But for me, I think what would be scariest for zaun is the 'less you see' type of baddies. Shadows in the darkness that only hint at their true nature. Stuff like that would make for a great end game with zaun...

Ah! I see where you're going now. It may be a semantics issue then. We both see a strong 'horror' element to Zaun, but I think whenever I think 'body horror' and self-made monsters, I think Gothic Horror instead of Eldrich Horror (which to me is horror that comes from unknowable, malevolent, entities). :)

Cuix5 votes

Zaun is fully cyberpunk/biopunk. Piltover has the steampunk, Noxus has the noir, Bilgewater has the Lovecraft.

Klax002saur1 votes

{quoted} Maybe not literal hunger - but certainly a deep seated need to live, and live hard. Live, despite the rest of the world saying you shouldn't. LIVE because no-one can take that right from you!

That's not hunger, that is desperation. Demacia is a place of Honor/Obligation, Piltover, of Achievement, and Zaun, of Desperation.

CupcakeTrap6 votes

{quoted}

That's not hunger, that is desperation. Demacia is a place of Honor/Obligation, Piltover, of Achievement, and Zaun, of Desperation.

I'm not sure I'd agree. You don't have to be desperate to be hungry for more.

Somehow, I'm reminded of an SMBC comic that contrasted two forms of "nihilism":

  • College nihilist: (College student lecturing friends) "Nothing matters! It's all pointless! I know, because I've written FOUR papers on the subject. FOUR!"
  • Real-world nihilist: (Vacuously smiling businessman standing on the steps of a bank) "I'm going to make as much money as I can, then spend it on more money!"
junglerboy164 votes

Philosophy student Nihilists are actually really, really amusing to me, just because you have to beg the question, "If nothing matters, then why on earth do you care about your essays or trying to persuade me to listen to you? Because if I believe you, then I should equally not care at all about you or what you say."

RiotCarnival Knights7 votes

I'd half-agree with honor/achievement/desperation because the individual factions are far more multifaceted... at least in my own opinion. Demacia? Gilded cage. Piltover? Metropolis meets Shangri-La meets Tomorrowland meets Rapture/the Flying City of Columbia. Zaun? So much more... bohemian. Or at least it had to have been, at one point. But each has parts of the others, because while thematic differences define each place, the common development of civilized (or uncivilized) societies ties them all together.

As for Zaun... desperation does come to mind. But it's a lot more complex than 'everyone here is scrappy and poor,' and not for the reasons you might be thinking of.

81AZ4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Carnival Knights,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=nnvlU1ZB,comment-id=0006000100000001,timestamp=2015-05-14T22:35:35.295+0000)

Piltover? Metropolis meets Shangri-La meets Tomorrowland meets Rapture/the Flying City of Columbia.

Carnival just what is Piltover's bad side? Because all other city-states have very massive "BUT"s (just look at Demacia/Noxus/Ionia/Zaun), and then appears Piltover, which looks like a geek pictured heaven and just put it into the LoL universe. Hell, the biggest issue we have been told about the place is Jinx, who didn't come from Piltover. Ionia has Zed and Syndra showing issues within the place, Demacia has been shown to be overly militaristic sometimes, not even need to talk about the dark side of Noxus and Zaun. And yet we have Piltover, which is basically "imagine if everyone put aside their differences and just was progressive". Where is the joke? How are you going to call the place names without appearing like a doofus in this day and age on the internet?

RiotCarnival Knights3 votes

Hmm. Here's where I'm coming from: what makes a city utopian? Especially a technological utopia - what makes it so... perfect, for lack of a better term?

cHAncEman12922 votes

[{quoted}](name=Carnival Knights,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=nnvlU1ZB,comment-id=000600010000000100000000,timestamp=2015-05-14T23:56:38.746+0000)

Hmm. Here's where I'm coming from: what makes a city utopian? Especially a technological utopia - what makes it so... perfect, for lack of a better term?

That's why at least in my head cannon Zaun is the "slums" of Piltover. It makes sense, both are very technologically advanced cities yet Piltover doesn't have the mayhem that Zaun has. Perhaps Piltover is really this wonderful place, perhaps similiar to Elysium where if your born there you'd never know any different. People in Zaun may fight there way to get their big break and move their practice to Piltover. More rebellious inventors may find the regulations in Piltover too stringent and decide to conduct their more sinister research projects away. I feel like Piltover and Zaun are two sides of the same coin. By making them coexist as part of a bigger city it opens up questions about social hierarchy and satire on gentrification etc.

Zaun is like Rapture. Piltover is like Columbia.

RiotCarnival Knights3 votes

{quoted}

Perhaps Piltover is really this wonderful place, perhaps similiar to Elysium where if your born there you'd never know any different.

Okay, so let's take this. You're from Piltover, which is sort of like a highfalutin golden road. But you live in proximity to what was at one point a bohemian, pave-your-own-way kind of place that maybe didn't play by all the same rules yet still created interesting scientific advances. As a function of those advances, law- and policy-makers turn a blind eye to what goes on there. But you live in, what you are told at least, is the zenith of perfect living - and you're right next door. They do not, and everyone knows it.

Two generations pass.

Logically, what happens?

cHAncEman12922 votes

[{quoted}](name=Carnival Knights,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=nnvlU1ZB,comment-id=00060001000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2015-05-15T02:18:02.131+0000)

Okay, so let's take this. You're from Piltover, which is sort of like a highfalutin golden road. But you live in proximity to what was at one point a bohemian, pave-your-own-way kind of place that maybe didn't play by all the same rules yet still created interesting scientific advances. As a function of those advances, law- and policy-makers turn a blind eye to what goes on there. But you live in, what you are told at least, is the zenith of perfect living - and you're right next door. They do not, and everyone knows it.

Two generations pass.

Logically, what happens?

I absolutely think that some Piltover residents have taken and rebranded tech created in Zaun and passed it off as their own inventions. Even though the lore saids otherwise, part of me thinks that Jayce used something from Viktor to create the Mercury Cannon .

I could also see a possibility where Piltover becomes corrupt overtime - which adds a lot of flavor to Caitlynn's store as she's earnestly trying to restore order.

In short yes there'd be some cooperation between the two but I've never seen their rivalry as bloodstained as Demacia and Noxus. If anything they'd have a much more competitive/political relationship.

How do you see it?

RiotCarnival Knights3 votes

I see it as a matter of erosion over many decades.

Look at any society where one segment of the population is raised believing their way of life is better than another. The progeny of that population will grow up believing they are superior, and their progeny will believe it even more. On the other side, each successive generation grows up with an exponentially expanding grudge that they are treated as lessers. Communication breaks down. There's violence. Things slip and people get hurt, and if it happens enough the violence becomes systemic. On a macro level this is solved through policy over the long term, but on an individual basis citizens project the failings of their society onto their respective 'others.' Piltover residents believe that Zaunites are inherently lesser, barbaric, poor, stupid, dangerous, worthless. Zaunites believe Piltoverians (or however you say it) are egalitarian, golden-spoon having untouchable overlords who need to be brought down a peg. Communication breaks down further. What happens now?

That's the thing about utopias - they work in one, unbending way, and rely on and are run by those who reside in them. And if there's one thing history tells us, it's that hell isn't a place. Hell is people.

El Dez2 votes

Does Piltover actively oppresses Zaun beyond propaganda? Were they the first to create violence? Have they at any point instigated or otherwise benefited from Zaun's morally lax policies? If not, Piltover is still objectively right. Any violence on their part is reactionary at worst and their dynamic with Zuan is attempting to paint a picture where the disadvantaged are only angry because they "lost", which is more than a little insensitive. In your description of Zaunites' opinion of a Piltovian, there was very little negativity in the descriptions. You basically wrote, "They're fair and rich, they don't deserve it." I can't relate to that at all because it's practically saying that's the beginning and end of their civil(?) unrest. Most deeply held class/national animosity is based on entitlement. Either being entitled to being treated fairly or being entitled to treating a set group like shit. Now that I think about it, if they're truly egalitarian, anyone who wasn't a psychopath from Zaun could be accepted in Piltover (Vi), so Piltover can't be the latter. If the "one unbending way" they work is basic morality and the Runeterra equivalent of OSHA, Piltover's main issues with Zaun are more or less true, they have no hand in Zaun's problems, and are capable of changing their minds about Zaunites, the Piltover/Zaun rivalry is very morally one-sided. If this is the case, you shouldn't have bothered attempting to flesh out Zaun as anything other than the "throw shit at a wall and see what sticks" mad scientist nation we all thought it was in the first place. THAT nation doesn't care about Piltover at all because they're too busy making cool shit and blowing stuff up.

So I guess tl;dr, what is Hellish about Piltover?

RiotCarnival Knights3 votes

The dangerous assumption with any egalitarian society is that 'everyone should be equal' actually means 'everyone' and not just 'people like us.'

The more dangerous assumption is that Piltover is always right.

And with that cryptic semi-answer, I bid you adieu. Stay tuned for my next hot post, 'Deeply nested pseudo-speculation of a thing within a thing within a thing.'

CupcakeTrap15 votes

Thanks for commenting! When I have a free minute, I'll try to do a better Zaun post; this was really just a quick "hey! LISTEN!" Navi-post meant to get people talking about what they want to see from Zaun. I'm a little biased in that Zaun got a lot of screentime in Factions during the Hextech Revolution arc. As usual, we quite consciously decided to write in some concrete specifics, knowing full well that we might end up having to retcon our own material if Riot released something different later on. Not complaining; them's the breaks. But honestly, I think it's the best way I can express my understanding of the spirit of Zaun, by showing what the Factions community has created in an attempt to embody that spirit.

Research over Regulations. Results over Rules. Revolution over Revision. (Motto of the Zaun Techmaturgic Institute)

On the more sinister side, I kind of want to link this awesome artwork depicting Pharmakon II, a "weaponized" telepathy-inducing version of a Void-tainted street drug, used to create a bunch of spooky PsiKorps secret police types:

http://i.imgur.com/RDHXrx5.png (I love the Roman numerals. Such a great gothic/retro touch.)

Or, on the friendlier side, an energy drink called ThaumaKola.

And this awesome picture by Summoner 333lom, depicting her Summoner character (a machine acolyte), together with Viktor and the iconoclastic yordle scientist Merricurry:

http://i.imgur.com/dmWvguq.jpg

Or the Zaunite "Ghostbusters" who saw the Black Mist as an opportunity to gather some specimens with vivatronic accelerator packs. Also a fun time to compare and contrast Piltovians and Zaunites.

The Mists converge on Bilgewater. A joint team of Piltovian and Zaunite researchers hear screams from the house in front of them, and dramatically power up their proton packs vivatronic accelerator cannons. Piltovian 1: It has been an honor. To give one’s life in the pursuit of progress and a brighter tomorrow is an honor indeed. Piltovian 2: I'm with you, sir. Zaunite groans. Zaunite: Enough outa you Pilts! She kicks down the door to the phantom-infested house, and starts blasting them. Zaunite: WOOO! THEY WORK! THEY REALLY WORK! AHAHA! HAVE A LOAD'A THIS, YA SPOOKY SPOOKS!

Ahhhh. Okay, I'll stop now. It's just…feeeeeelings.

{quoted}

I particularly like how you've described it as "Dark but fun" - that's the sort of Zaun I'd want to see more of, I think. The sort of place where the nightlife is incredible, but there's no guarantee that you'll wake up in the morning with both of your kidneys.

Yes! EXACTLY. Crazy party, wild times, you wake up on a lab table and hear Singed telling you that "This will sting."

{quoted}

Of course, just the existence of wise cracking Ekko suggests that it's not all sweetness and light in Zaun - and I don't think to anyone here that sort of thinking is a surprise. Jinx and Mundo already gave me a view of Zaun that was out of control, maybe a bit funny, but with an underlying desperation. If Demacia is a place of obligation, and Piltover a place of achievement, then I saw Zaun as a place of hunger. Maybe not literal hunger - but certainly a deep seated need to live, and live hard. Live, despite the rest of the world saying you shouldn't. LIVE because no-one can take that right from you!

I would add that if Demacia is an exaggerated, mythical version of our romantic notions of chivalry and heroism, Zaun is a funhouse-mirror caricature of the horrors (and delights) of modernity. Actually, I think it's a bit retro in that sense: I get a very strong 80s/90s Shadowrun-esque cyberpunk vibe from Zaun. I mean, of course, it's not literally cyberpunk. But it reflects that same fear of a corporate-run world.

I think Zaun really gets at the, so to speak, sociopathic nature of modern society: media, "show biz", consumer culture, "the big city". The stakes are very high, and some people end up torn to pieces (perhaps literally in Zaun), but the whole system is geared toward entertainment and excitement, and the gears don't stop turning when bodies get pulled in. They don't even stop the music.

It occurs to me that I'm talking to someone who works for a company based in LA. So I think I can stop there. (Yes, I'm from NorCal. Yes, I'm biased.)

In closing, two videos (I guess technically NSFW?)—

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wR_53MoeWE4 (1) The Western World (Pennywise)

and

(EDIT: Okay, there IS brief nudity in this video, so out of respect to the Boards rules, I'll just say that people can YouTube search "21st century digital boy ghost in the shell".) (2) 21st Century Digital Boy (Bad Religion) (Ghost in the Shell AMV)

RiotBioluminescence12 votes

Your video reminds me of the (pretty flawed) "Repo! The Genetic Opera" musical [WARNING - Scantily leather-clad people, and bad singing] - just what you want when you want to see Paris Hilton playing a plastic surgery obsessed socialite in a world where your organs are rented instead of owned.

Also - I'm not an LA local, and couldn't be further from a party animal if I tried :)

I do agree with your feeling that it's pushing those cyberpunk vibes. What's the phrase they use... "High tech and low life"? Sounds about right - even if the 'height' of that tech is relative and augmented with magic. I have also been a pretty extreme steampunk fan at various parts of my life, and that usually comes in two flavors - the Scientific Romance flavor where science is amazing and explorers discover exotic lands, and the Gothic Horror side of it where man meddles with things best left unmeddled, and pauper prisons sit alongside ol' Jack the Ripper. In some ways, Piltover is the former, and Zaun draws from the latter (after all - what is Dr. Mundo if not Dr. Jekyl Leaguified.)

I also think that Zaun could be a way of looking at the horrors of our own runaway attempt for progress. The industrial revolution shocked much of the West and created whole new horrors for the modern psyche - but with other parts of the world going through their own technological revolutions, they're creating brand new nightmares to make stories about. Pea-soup-ers in London created a mist that Bilgewater would envy, and an atmosphere that writers of that era hid terrible things in. Today we get poisonous choking air and flammable tap-water, depending on where in the world you are, and what side-effect of progress you're subject to.

CupcakeTrap3 votes

I'm at work and can't watch at full volume yet, but from the little bit I saw, yes. So over-the-top and garish as to be retro. And "zydrate" sounds like something that would be sold in Zaun. Oh, and while I deleted the link for propriety's sake, I actually prefer 21st Century Digital Boy, especially with the GitS AMV.

Tangentially, I also like Zaun's modernity as a way to sort of lampshade the archaic tone of other nations. Putting a Zaunite in a scene with a Demacian is a recipe for comedy gold.

EDIT: Oh man the singing is SO BAD. And I liked the Buffy musical. And Eve 6.

RiotBioluminescence6 votes

{quoted}

I'm at work and can't watch at full volume yet, but from the little bit I saw, yes. So over-the-top and garish as to be retro. And "zydrate" sounds like something that would be sold in Zaun. Oh, and while I deleted the link for propriety's sake, I actually prefer 21st Century Digital Boy, especially with the GitS AMV.

Tangentially, I also like Zaun's modernity as a way to sort of lampshade the archaic tone of other nations. Putting a Zaunite in a scene with a Demacian is a recipe for comedy gold.

EDIT: Oh man the singing is SO BAD. And I liked the Buffy musical. And Eve 6.

I warned you. And funny you mention Buffy - Anthony Head Stewart is in this too. He's got a great voice, but that wasn't the best place to show it. I had wanted it to be a new Rocky Horror, but it wasn't, alas.

The comedy gold element is strong, but (and this is just my impression) outside of funny non-canon skins, I suspect comedy will be a ways off until Riot is more comfortable with the normal tone of Runeterra. In the way that it's hard to satirize something if it's not particularly solid yet - I could see that running with a Demacia/Zaun odd-couple style comedy might be a misstep just now. Of course, in the world of fan-fiction, you have no such limitations :D

  • He's a punky kid with a time rewind device and a problem with authority. She's a half-dragon soldier who has trouble making connections - together; THEY FIGHT CRIME!
Zeta6 votes

{quoted}

I warned you. And funny you mention Buffy - Anthony Head Stewart is in this too. He's got a great voice, but that wasn't the best place to show it. I had wanted it to be a new Rocky Horror, but it wasn't, alas.

The comedy gold element is strong, but (and this is just my impression) outside of funny non-canon skins, I suspect comedy will be a ways off until Riot is more comfortable with the normal tone of Runeterra. In the way that it's hard to satirize something if it's not particularly solid yet - I could see that running with a Demacia/Zaun odd-couple style comedy might be a misstep just now. Of course, in the world of fan-fiction, you have no such limitations :D

  • He's a punky kid with a time rewind device and a problem with authority. She's a half-dragon soldier who has trouble making connections - together; THEY FIGHT CRIME!

Riot used to love comedy, but it feels like now they're TERRIFIED to have comedy in any Champions that aren't Yordles, with the exception of Jinx.

I hear talk that they want to rework Mundo, one of the most beloved characters in the game because of his idiotic personality, into an angsty self-harmer covered in straps and scabs. Between that and Sion, I feel like we should just play "Crawling in My Skin" whenever a new Champion update of a formely funny character is announced.

RiotBioluminescence6 votes

{quoted}

...I hear talk that they want to rework Mundo, one of the most beloved characters in the game because of his idiotic personality, into an angsty self-harmer covered in straps and scabs....

Do you have a reference for that sort of impression? It's not something I've heard of, but then again - I don't hear much. I'd like to know where that vibe is coming from though. Mundo is well loved from what I can tell, both with players, and players who happen to be Rioters.

Zeta3 votes

IronStylus on Dr. Mundo:

"One of the current challenges with him is that we would have to do an entire teardown of his old character art if we wanted to do what we'd LIKE to do. Which is probably along the lines of less of a grape flavored Hulk, with the ripped shirt, pants and all. I think the big semi-grotesque upper body would stay similar with his legs being more or less.. not "normal".. but less deformed. Putting him solidly in the "freak" category and not the "hulk" category which is where we've put Sion. He very much needs a new rig to execute at the level we'd want to. There's even a thought of him model-swapping to a larger, more brutal version of himself when he's ulting. This is all talk though, don't take it as a feature promise.

Something I'd like to play around with is figuring out something different to do with his clothing rather than literally a ripped white shirt and brown pants. I was talking with the guys and we were thinking maybe he has what's left of whatever he used to harness himself up to an experimental injection device, or something that feels a little more in line with Zaun.. which isn't exactly well defined right now either.. There's some references like final-boss Fontaine from Bioshock or when Shwarzenegger is restrained in Total Recall when they're trying to wipe his brain, and he pulls off an arm restraint and stabs a guy through the head. I dunno, something that's pieces of wreckage, hard material or "clothing" that tells some sort of story."

All of that seems like a grimdark, Sion-esque direction to take Mundo towards. BioShock and Total Recall aren't exactly dark comedies, which is the category I'd put Mundo into, thematically.

RiotBioluminescence5 votes

{quoted}

IronStylus on Dr. Mundo:

Something I'd like to play around with is figuring out something different to do with his clothing rather than literally a ripped white shirt and brown pants. I was talking with the guys and we were thinking maybe he has what's left of whatever he used to harness himself up to an experimental injection device, or something that feels a little more in line with Zaun.. which isn't exactly well defined right now either.. There's some references like final-boss Fontaine from Bioshock or when Shwarzenegger is restrained in Total Recall when they're trying to wipe his brain, and he pulls off an arm restraint and stabs a guy through the head. I dunno, something that's pieces of wreckage, hard material or "clothing" that tells some sort of story."

All of that seems like a grimdark, Sion-esque direction to take Mundo towards. BioShock and Total Recall aren't exactly dark comedies, which is the category I'd put Mundo into, thematically.

Thanks for digging that reference up for us, Zeta - I now see what you mean.

I read Mundo's lore, and it seems to be in conflict with the dark-comedy vibe that so many people have put Mundo into. He's a mass-murdering, puppy-killing, war criminal with not an ounce of regret or remorse for his actions. Even as a boy, long before he was likely able to chemically modify himself, he was inflicting pain and death on the innocent.

Contrast this with his VO, his brightly colored splash, and even his animation sets which all make him seem goofy.

I'm not asking this to poke any bears - I swear I'm just interested in what people here think - but how would you reconcile these two tones?

(Note - I despise the boss from Bioshock 1 and wish it had never happened. Don't think I am necessarily agreeing with anything above :))

Solideus4 votes

{quoted}

Thanks for digging that reference up for us, Zeta - I now see what you mean.

I read Mundo's lore, and it seems to be in conflict with the dark-comedy vibe that so many people have put Mundo into. He's a mass-murdering, puppy-killing, war criminal with not an ounce of regret or remorse for his actions. Even as a boy, long before he was likely able to chemically modify himself, he was inflicting pain and death on the innocent.

Contrast this with his VO, his brightly colored splash, and even his animation sets which all make him seem goofy.

I'm not asking this to poke any bears - I swear I'm just interested in what people here think - but how would you reconcile these two tones?

(Note - I despise the boss from Bioshock 1 and wish it had never happened. Don't think I am necessarily agreeing with anything above :))

The original art direction/VO and that time's style of writing bios clashed in that way more often than not. However, I think Ironstylus was speaking strictly on Dr. Mundo's visuals in this case, specifically what he should be wearing to tell a story about him and to place him in the visual style developed for his peers. I don't think Sion going from goofy to serious means Mundo will be treated the same way. He can be a sadistic psychopath but still be jovial about it. There's a balance to strike between him being too realistically grimdark on one hand and a shallow, disconnected joke on the other. His current iteration has led to varying interpretations about his character. I trust that he will be well executed on though. Jinx is a totally lovable psychopath, Dr. Mundo can absolutely be the same way!

RiotBioluminescence4 votes

{quoted}

The original art direction/VO and that time's style of writing bios clashed in that way more often than not. However, I think Ironstylus was speaking strictly on Dr. Mundo's visuals in this case, specifically what he should be wearing to tell a story about him and to place him in the visual style developed for his peers. I don't think Sion going from goofy to serious means Mundo will be treated the same way. He can be a sadistic psychopath but still be jovial about it. There's a balance to strike between him being too realistically grimdark on one hand and a shallow, disconnected joke on the other. His current iteration has led to varying interpretations about his character. I trust that he will be well executed on though. Jinx is a totally lovable psychopath, Dr. Mundo can absolutely be the same way!

I totally agree that Jinx has 'won' in terms of being both lovable and a total nutcase. I love her as a character and jump for joy when I see that I'm laning with her in teambuilder (even if my current support character isn't necessarily the best combo for her).

However, Jinx arrived fully formed (like Athena) - while Dr. Mundo feels like he's got some issues (and not the good kind) that need tied up in one way or another. Any changes made will likely anger some or other of the multitudes of Mundo fans out there (both within and outside of Riot itself).

I may be too simplistic, but I have trouble associating 'lovable' with 'puppy killer'. It's just a very hard sell for me. One of those things, imo, would need modifying in order to work. I think even Jinx, who's music video shows her destroying half of Piltover, is 'sanitized' by never actually showing her kill anyone (it was aaaaall a dream). The WANTED poster is actually written by Jinx herself! We do not know the extent of her true crimes - she could simply be a trouble-maker with aspirations. (Maybe there is some canon lore that contradicts this - please correct me if so!)

Lovable puppy-killer. How to solve?

I don't have an answer, though my personal instinct would be to change the lore to match the larger-than-life personality that the players and the game have created. My instincts may be wrong.

Hellioning3 votes

I dunno about you, but I don't think 'Jinx never actually hurt anyone on screen!' is much of a defense for 'Jinx wants to destroy Piltover.' I mean, it's technically true, but entirely misleading. There's a reason that death threats and bomb threats are taken so seriously, you know?

RiotBioluminescence2 votes

{quoted}

I dunno about you, but I don't think 'Jinx never actually hurt anyone on screen!' is much of a defense for 'Jinx wants to destroy Piltover.' I mean, it's technically true, but entirely misleading. There's a reason that death threats and bomb threats are taken so seriously, you know?

Oh absolutely, but there's a gradient there. Death threats != murder. Bomb threats != mass murder.

If we saw a cinematic showing a parent weeping over the corpses of their children who had burned to death in a daycare that Jinx had firebombed- that would all of a sudden be a very different feel to Jinx that I believe a lot of her players would strongly reject!

If it showed parents weeping over their very-much-alive children who had been evacuated from a daycare that had been pranked by Jinx - massively paint-bombed in florescent pink paint, then I think there'd be a few more players who might see that as in-keeping with her tone. Bonus points if the parent was a stuffy politician and the children are throwing globs of paint at each other for fun. Note - I still don't think we'd ever show something like that. Too many parents for whom that would cut too close to the bone.

You could imagine that there's a parallel future where Jinx was able to mend her ways, even if we never see that future. Or that some days she might rescue the puppy because it suited her mood, or she might apply glue to all the toilet seats in the high council of Piltover and slip some laxatives into the soup, because it suited her mood.

Maybe she just doesn't have the motivation yet, to actually go full murder-town. That if someone pushed her just a little further, she'd go full dark-Jinx and woe betide the world if she did.

Last note - anyone else having trouble with the boards now that this thread has got so lengthy? I've had to swap to chronological view to find replies :/

Hellioning3 votes

Maybe it's just me, but I'm seeing a lot less 'fun prankster' in Jinx and more 'violent anarchist'. Like, I see her less likely to paint an entire daycare pink to get at some stuffy politician and more like having Fishbones take a crack at it.

I mean, sure, she was introduced with graffiti and such, but the entire music video featured a lot less paint and a lot more explosions.

I certainly agree that dark Jinx would be a rapid departure for a character, but she's not exactly a 'prankster' when her idea of a good time is blowing buildings up.

(Also, yes, I cannot just go straight to either of our comments, either via redtracker or my own profile. Boards are kinda dumb for longer threads. Tell the boards team 'I told you so'.)

Sharjo15 votes

We got some embellishment for Zaun back when Twitch was VU'd, talking about C-Sec, H. I. V. E. , various sectors and the attitudes of some members of Zaun's populace, as well as Twitch's place in it. As far as I can tell from what Ekko's bringing to the table, It's more of that, embelishment.

Ekko represents a facet of Zaun that isn't seen much, as in it's only Janna, and she's not exactly easy to see it in. Ekko represents what life's like living in Zaun for ordinary people. He represents the attitude of its people, and how culturally they view other things. Zaun's most famous people are its murderers, psychopaths and greatest minds, but that's not everyone who lives in Zaun, far from it. Ekko shows us this.

Honestly Cupcake I'm not sure what the cause for concern is.

  • Is Zaun still a place of unchecked techmaturgical development? Yeah. Ekko pretty much confirms this, I mean he's not happy about a certain DrMundo subset Singed of Twitch Zaun Viktor.
  • Is it grimy and modern? Yeah. Seems that way.
  • Is it still filled with techmaturgical wonders that are also quite sinister? Yeah. Is Zaun still bonkers crazy and psychotic? DrMundo Jinx Singed Twitch Viktor Warwick

So that's all there. What does Ekko bring to the table?

  • An idea of what it's like for the majority of Zaun.
  • Ideology of the population.
  • Embelishment to the relations between Zaun and Piltover.

If anything the only change I see is Zaun getting moved to be way closer to Piltover. Everything else is embellishment, additions and development. Ekko hasn't changed anyone or anything, infact he's actually added to the lore of two of League's more popular champions: Jinx Vi

Ekko shows us a side of Zaun that hasn't ever been explored properly, a side that actually allows champions like Janna and Zac to thrive, because now we can actually see what they're about. Janna was once a street urchin like Ekko. The Zaun that Zac seeks to protect and ensure the livelihood of is the same Zaun that Ekko holds dear. Until something is proven otherwise I see only positive things for Zaun as a whole with this. Zaun finally has a Zaun who sounds like he actually cares about his home, who also talks about his home. Zac and Janna don't do that!

Jeddy0174 votes

Speaking of Janna,am I the only one who feels she should be given a more Zaun feel in terms of both design & personality?

There's no way to tell she is from the same place as Viktor Zac & now Ekko.She looks more like some fantasy elf from some magical fairy tale land rather than someone who grew up in the slums of Zaun & learned air magic.I'm not saying she needs to get some tech in her design.Just give her a more Zaun feel. Same goes for her VO (as with all the old champs who haven't received an updated VO),it's very limited in how much it shows the champion personality.

Though question is what should Riot do with her character along with this update I suggested.She can't be a celebrity in the LOL anymore.Do they try to make her a celebrity again?Or should they focus on her being someone who was an orphaned street rat as a kid that learned air magic & wants to make Zaun a better place?For me the answer is pretty obvious (the one that would actually make her an interesting character with an interesting backstory).

Variks the Loyal4 votes

{quoted}

Speaking of Janna,am I the only one who feels she should be given a more Zaun feel in terms of both design & personality?

There's no way to tell she is from the same place as Viktor Zac & now Ekko.She looks more like some fantasy elf from some magical fairy tale land rather than someone who grew up in the slums of Zaun & learned air magic.I'm not saying she needs to get some tech in her design.Just give her a more Zaun feel. Same goes for her VO (as with all the old champs who haven't received an updated VO),it's very limited in how much it shows the champion personality.

Though question is what should Riot do with her character along with this update I suggested.She can't be a celebrity in the LOL anymore.Do they try to make her a celebrity again?Or should they focus on her being someone who was an orphaned street rat as a kid that learned air magic & wants to make Zaun a better place?For me the answer is pretty obvious (the one that would actually make her an interesting character with an interesting backstory).

I didn't even know she was from Zaun, or had lore, until recently when my curiosity sparked.

Yeah, you're right. And the idea of her learning Wind and Weather magic in an attempt to clean up the pollution around her home is a good one. It doesn't really fit her current... Uhm... 'outfit' and appearance, but it's a good niche that Janna could fill, better than "floating fanservice".

Jeddy0176 votes

Well,it doesn't seem like she specifically learn wind magic to clean pollution.From her lore,it state she discovered she had an affinity for it. And it's not that she want to clean pollution,but moreso

She is a voice for the regulation of magical experimentation and a supporter of the development of techmaturgy...

a statement right out of her lore.Does this indirectly help the environment?Probably.But it's certainly clear she wants Zaun to be a better place like Ekko.

And about her appearance,it would probably be best to simply give her a more "Zaun" style while keeping the magical feel (pointy ears,flying,gravity-resistant hair).She's the only Zaun mage in League,let's try to keep it that way.She brings an element to Zaun that is never really explored there:the element of magic in Zaun.Something we don't here about much or it's not what you think of when you think Zaun.

CupcakeTrap11 votes

{quoted}

Honestly Cupcake I'm not sure what the cause for concern is. (...) If anything the only change I see is Zaun getting moved to be way closer to Piltover.

Maybe we should wager some juiceboxes and cupcakes on this. I'm still thinking that we'll see some significant rewrites. Even if we don't, of course, I think it's an important time for the community to talk Zaun.

And to clarify—are you talking about geographical proximity? Because aren't they already like right across the bay from each other? As far as I can tell, they're separated only by a moderate amount of water and seething contempt.

I think there is unfortunately a non-zero chance that they'll do something like, I don't know…claim that now Piltover and Zaun are really THE SAME PLACE OOOOOOOOOOOH. That's just the sort of too-cute-by-half nonsense they'd pull. And then we'll find out that Garen and Darius are really one person with a schizophrenic personality disorder and every odd-numbered Champion release is in fact from an alternate mirror universe. When they talk about how happy they are to have greater creative freedom now that this video game lore is no longer tied to a video game (pause for contemplation), that's what I imagine. It's a lot of really cutesy quirky stuff that sounds clever on paper and makes them feel all authorial but jacks up the setting and causes tremendous headaches as to prior continuity. It's like Lost: Runeterra Edition.

Hell, at this rate, I see no reason to believe that they won't literally move Piltover and Zaun into the future. Maybe they'll freak out about how they can have knights, riflemen, and robots with death rays in the same setting. So they say, well, they're not from the same setting: same planet, different century, check out our awesome new eSports interview series and exclusive Razer tie-in deals.

The better answer is to realize that magic can take many forms, not all of which involve people in robes speaking Latin; in a high-magic setting, there's no reason why a valiant knight's armor might not repel gunshots the same way it would a dragon's fiery breath. This is not a materialist universe these characters are living in. Do you really believe that Tryndamere is just an angry man with a sword, or that Lee Sin is just some guy who does a lot of martial arts, or that Caitlyn is just some lady with a gun? See also: every superhero movie that includes Batman-style characters. Yeah, um, "martial arts training" and "special equipment" that allow a person to trade punches with Darkseid, or even just to reliably defeat criminals with handguns, should fall within the category of implicit magic. Call it superscience, call it ki energy, whatever: but acknowledge that this is not our universe.

That's the better answer. Sometimes, awkward setups motivate creativity. But, hey, this is League after the Great Retcon! There's no longer any need to actually have the story make sense, so why not? MAYBE PILTOVER IS DEMACIA IN THE FUTURE YOU GUYS OMG. The community might respond, um, but, guys, that means that Piltovian Champions and Demacian Champions can never interact, to be met with hysterical laughter and "uhhh, yeah, like that was ever going to happen, lol." Prompting the further question, "But Piltover knows Bandle City, and Bandle City knows Demacia, and Lux and Ezreal know each other, and Zaun gave techmaturgic weapons to Noxus when it invaded Ionia, so they HAVE to be in the same timeframe, don't they?" And then the final reply, "Oh, yeah, we can see how that might be confusing. Basically, all the old lore is the same, except for everything that involves them existing in the same time period. So, you know, just make that change as you go through. Free example: Ezreal doesn't date Lux herself, seeing as she's been dead for centuries, but he does date a blonde girl."

"THE SHADOW ISLES: SOME SAY THEY DON'T EXIST." —Elise, from "She Awoke in a White Room, and Couldn't Remember Her Name: An Anthology of Lazy Fucking Worldbuilding"

"Noxians? Some say they don't exist." —Ezreal, from upcoming lore release, yet to be titled

/pessmism

I mean, yes, it's quite likely that the fine people at Riot Games will be sensible and build Zaun up without giving in to the temptation to first destroy its established foundations.

Variks the Loyal5 votes

I enjoyed reading your post.

Zaun, to me, has always seemed like a sort of "fuck it" state where chaos ruled. I never really thought of it having some sort of centralized government, simply because of how much shit actually happens there. But what you said about megacorporations, maybe one even run by Singed (And Corporate Mundo!) makes a lot of sense.

Makes me wonder if we could see a sort of civil war within Zaun. The people on top like Singed who exert their will on the weaker, not for pleasure or luxury, but for their scientific curiosity and dangerous ambition, the people on the bottom like Ekko, who want their city to become a better place using their ambition and know how to build a better future for all Zaunites, and the mutants like Zac and Twitch, who are caught in the middle and just want to live.

CupcakeTrap9 votes

I appreciate you saying so. I admit that my tiny cupcake feelings were a bit hurt when I posted that up and immediately got multi-downvoted.

As for a Zaunite civil war, I feel like in a sense Zaun is perpetually at war with itself, or rather, various elements within Zaun are continually clashing with one another. I don't mean to say that it's a literal warzone, but rather that there are a lot of low-level "shadow wars" between subfactions. Not in the sense of pitched battles, but rather assassinations, acts of sabotage, and rioting.

Variks the Loyal4 votes

{quoted}

I appreciate you saying so. I admit that my tiny cupcake feelings were a bit hurt when I posted that up and immediately got multi-downvoted.

As for a Zaunite civil war, I feel like in a sense Zaun is perpetually at war with itself, or rather, various elements within Zaun are continually clashing with one another. I don't mean to say that it's a literal warzone, but rather that there are a lot of low-level "shadow wars" between subfactions. Not in the sense of pitched battles, but rather assassinations, acts of sabotage, and rioting.

I like the idea. I'm still struggling to see Zaun as anything bit anarchy. It makes it hard to see them as a central 'Zaun' with all these subfactions. Like, Zaun is supposedly Noxus' ally. Does that mean Ekko likes Noxians? Will Varus be seeking Twitch's head on a pike? I'd almost say it's more like, Swain and Singed negotiated a deal from Singed's personal company/corporation/forces for the buying of bioweapons. And where the hell Urgot would fall in all of that, I don't know, Sion sort of has all the "risen Noxian warrior" thunder.

Centuros3 votes

I believe they did say "everything that happened is canon, just without the League".

That being said, that doesn't mean they WON'T change things... but I don't think they will make large changes to the regions themselves.

CupcakeTrap11 votes

Well, take a look at Shurima. I'm pretty sure the Floating Pyramids are gone in Riot's new version. And the list of Shuriman Champions whose lore has been radically altered is pretty extensive.

Skarner "I miss my kind missing my kind." Sivir "I am apparently now an empress or something." Rammus His lore now exists largely in the form of a question. Xerath Now some kind of vengeful ex-slave, rather than a power-mad aristocrat. Nasus Now has a side job reading scene descriptions aloud while doing an impression of Olmec from Legends of the Hidden Temple. Renekton "u guys i was locked up with xerath for like a bajillion years it was super weird srsly im like so crazy now lol but srsly i will totally kill nasus rage meter 100% or w/e"

(I mean, come on. If all that time in the lockbox with Xerath made Renekton crazy, why didn't it also make Xerath into a crocodile? What gives? But I digress.)

Granted, we didn't really know that much about Shurima in the first place. It's entirely possible that they will leave all the more established factions alone. But we're talking about the team that deleted the League of Legends from League of Legends: somehow I'm not expecting much fidelity to established lore out of them.

(While I'm at it, I always found something kind of absurd about the "it's just like before, but without the League of Legends!" line. "It's just like Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, but without Deep Space Nine!" Perhaps a better analogy would be, "It's like Star Trek, without the Federation!" It's far from obvious what happens when you delete the centerpiece of the setting and radically alter the politics and history of the entire world. "Well, you know, the Constitution is the same post-retcon, but just imagine it was written in a world in which nobody ever invented seafaring vessels.")

Sneak Dog7 votes

They removed Trundle and replaced him with a new character. They're happy to remove an entire champion, what makes you think they won't do it to a region?

Centuros2 votes

They have said that was a big mistake, and they don't want to do it again.

Sneak Dog6 votes

They said their communication around it was a big mistake, but that they were happy with the end result. They knew they were creating a different character and in fact, were actively doing so:

how could we make him into the “coolest” frost troll he could be?

Runaan here goes about how they kept 'key elements', but they have not kept the entire character. The new Trundle is a similar but definitely different character.

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