Kha'zix vs. Rengar debate input

The Ecdysiast··2 votes·791 views

I made a thread to respond back when it as Lucian vs. Thresh to show why Lucian would win based on combat advantages, and I've got one very simple explanation--which is also a pun-- as to why Rengar would win this one:

~~Rengar has the upper hand... because he has hands.

They have nearly equal strengths at medium to close range, so it's a stalemate if that's where they stay...

But at extremely close range, Kha'zix has little to no options. Rengar can throw down or sheath his weapons and straight up punch, strangle, or gouge Kha'zix with his fists and fingers--with no worry that Kha will pick those weapons up. Kha'zix's lack of hands means he's limited to the big swings necessary to slash with his claws, which need space to pull off.

Additionally, comparing their "equal" strengths, Rengar once again has the upper hand.

Cloaks: Rengar can do it for longer and can include his clothes and weapons. Kha'zix isn't ever shown to be able to do it for more than 2 seconds or to anything besides parts of his body.

Mid-range attacks: Rengar has the option to stop motion entirely, as opposed to Kha'zix's only being a slow. The heal means little if they use them at effective range. And at the range where Kha'zix would be healed by his spikes, Rengar can be healed for a higher amount by his roar.

**EDIT: I forgot to mention that Rengar's cloak gives him TRUE SIGHT of enemies, rendering Kha'zix's cloak completely useless. ** I think this turns the fight in Rengar's favor regardless of any other advantages. Kha's biggest strength is completely removed.

8 Comments

GreenLore2 votes

If Rengar tries to struggle Kha,then kha would simply stab rengar with his claws or shoot exploding spikes into rengars face that would even heal kha.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

Already covered both of those. Read the post.

GreenLore2 votes

But you assume that kha needs big slashs in your post,despite the fact that there is nothing stopping kha from just stabbing him.

And overall I think you miss some pros for kha. I mean you say rengars cloak is better,because it lasts longer,but disregard the fact that kha can use it more often and he is an expert at surprise attacks.

Also I wouldn't take ingame stats too seriously.It is very likely that exploding spikes to your face will deal more damage in the lore(and likely heal more as well) than a lion guy roaring into your face.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

I assume based solely on gameplay. The only animation in his design that even resembles a stab is his dance.

Neither has a stealth ward, and though Kha can do his more often, he's limited to 2 or 3 activations within the entire duration of Rengar's, forced to become visible after 2 seconds.

Both are experts at surprise attacks, so that's a moot point.

And it's actually not very likely that those spikes would explode at all. There isn't a substance besides acid that kha could be holding in his body that could damage an opponent, and there's no way they'd ever heal him if that's the case.

FloRaider421 votes

Rengar

  • Fighting experience
  • Longer Stealth
  • Heals more
  • Can get the advantage by grappling the opponent
  • detectable Stealth
  • Lost an eye in the last battle with Kha
  • can lose weapons / needs bolas to throw

Khazix

  • Evolves by eating prey (got stronger since his last battle with Rengar)
  • can stealth multiple times
  • Spikes regenerate rapidly and can be fired instantly
  • would always have the isolation bonus in a 1v1
  • has higher Mobility
  • has higher range (spikes cover more area and claws can be extended)
  • shorther stealth duration
  • no hands (needs some range to fully utilize scythes), but can still brawl in close range

Rengar wins if he can grapple Kha, without getting hit by the spikes and claws Kha wins if he can keep his pace and distance

The Ecdysiast1 votes

Rengar: ++++Cloak gives him true sight of enemies. -lower leaping range*

          • cloth armor offers no protection from blades

For Kha: +higher leap range* -completely reliant on weapons at fixed points on his body. Shoulders and wings are vulnerable and easily targeted. -stealth rendered completely useless by Rengar's true sight +/- Claw evolution may increase range, but like a longer sword would only increase the short-range distance he would have trouble at. +/- Likely only healed the damage from their previous encounter from eating prey, not gotten stronger. He's not a Saiyan. +/- Exoskeleton provides protection from any blade attack that isn't a stab--though Rengar's preferred execution is a stab--, but if broken his insides won't hold together well. Very vulnerable to impact or fractures.

*Wings are extremely vulnerable. His advantage in leap range can be completely reversed, as he shows no ability to jump at all without the support of his wings.

What I think really decides the battle isn't the hands any more. I think every advantage on either side is overshadowed by the fact Rengar's stealth gives him true sight.

FloRaider422 votes

{quoted}

Rengar: ++++Cloak gives him true sight of enemies

Doesn't really matter considering: Scenario A: Kha launches suprise attack -> Rengar gets wounded Scenario B: Rengar launches suprise attack -> Indicator warn Kha beforehand Scenario C: Both attack -> Rengar manages to attack Kha once in stealth thanks to true sight, leaving Kha with two more uses

-lower leaping range*

already covered in lower mobility

For Kha: +higher leap range*

already covered in higher mobility

-completely reliant on weapons at fixed points on his body.

Not that much of a disadvantage as he has full control over them and can't be disarmed unlike Rengar

Shoulders and wings are vulnerable and easily targeted

Wings are retractable and shoulders are padded

-stealth rendered completely useless by Rengar's true sight

only one use of stealth is countered by true sight, which leaves Kha with two more uses when Rengar already left stealth

+/- Claw evolution may increase range, but like a longer sword would only increase the short-range distance he would have trouble at

Gives disadvantage in tight places and grappling, but gives advantages during melee

+/- Likely only healed the damage from their previous encounter from eating prey, not gotten stronger.

Why would he only heal his damage ? Did you neglect the part in the lore where he explicetly gets stronger every time he devours something ? "With each kill he absorbs his prey's strength, evolving to grow more powerful." Rengar is basically fighting against a ticking time bomb.

*Wings are extremely vulnerable.

Can be retracted

His advantage in leap range can be completely reversed, as he shows no ability to jump at all without the support of his wings.

Unevolved E ?

Well now you are just mixing real life/gameplay/lore in any combination to suit your needs. I think it's safe to assume that you could make good arguments for any of the two to win in a fight, which makes the outcome of the fight purely based on personal preference.

Voidzilla1 votes

You seem to be mixing gameplay up with lore, and gameplay isn't an exact 1-1 comparison with the "reality" of League (especially with the great retcon that divorced the game from its lore). And from your comments, you also seem to really hinge on Rengar's ultimate compared to Kha'Zix's, as well as Rengar simply having fingers, both of which are rather superficial and disregarding who they are as characters. Fights aren't always about appearances, weapons, or talents. It's as much the mindset and goal. I'm a Kha'Zix fan, and though I admit I'm fairly biased against the one-eyed cat, I'll try to look at this feud as objectively as possible. This scenario can play out countless ways, so I won't claim anything is absolute truth, but here's my input.

In-game: Let's say there are two players, 1v1, masters at Kha'Zix and Rengar that play the Champions to their highest potential. They're both max level, Kha with three of his evolutions, Rengar at max Ferocity with a fully-stacked Necklace, and full build. It could go either way, but I'll submit and say Rengar has a slight advantage. Both exceed at eliminating single targets, both are highly mobile, and both have extreme burst. However, Rengar has better sustained damage and, mainly due to his Battle Roar (W), doesn't require as much precision to deal damage, become more durable, & even heal. I'm not saying it's a guaranteed victory, but Reng has a little more in terms of a duel.

In-lore: Again, there are countless ways this could go down depending on a variety of factors, such as environment, how the two meet, etc. In-lore though, I would say Kha'Zix has the advantage. Why?

  1. When the two first met, Kha'Zix was at his weakest, having recently just come to Runterra as a larva/nymph/just-underdeveloped, while Rengar was already an expert hunter. Yet still, Reng couldn't kill Kha, and what's more is that Reng was permanently scarred while Kha has not a single scratch from that battle. We can assume Kha has been devouring and growing, so if Reng couldn't beat Kha then, when they meet again the Voidreaver will have become even powerful. Kha is a living swiss army knife that can only get stronger with time, to which Rengar has been wasting by leaving him alone. What's more is that Kha's not just stronger, he's prepared. He's most likely gained traits specifically designed to counter his nemesis. Granted, so probably has Reng, but...
  2. Kha'Zix is from the Void, a plane shrouded in mystery. Rengar is from Runeterra, a world that the Void has been able to quickly adapt to. When Kha came through, he was weak, but grew stronger and became an apex predator of a foreign existence. And if the Void truly does operate as a unified invasion force, Kha's mission/purpose is adapting to this world, learning its strengths and weaknesses, understanding and killing the opposition. Basically, he's specifically designed to slay Runterrans. Reng on the other hand (as it currently stands at least) doesn't have the faintest idea about the Void or what its denizens are capable of. All he knows is that Kha is otherworldly and he's a big bug, which is a gross underestimation of what the Voidreaver, or any Voidborn, is. Understanding the enemy is more often than not just as important as physically brawling with them, and Kha has much more capability of understanding Runeterrans than Reng can of Voidborn.
  3. Also pertaining to origins is experience. Rengar has hunted big animals (and got his ass kicked by a Yordle with a bad temper if I may add). Kha'Zix has survived among the likes of Rek'Sai, monsters even the demigod-like Ascended of Shurima dread. Based on that, which is the better survivor? Kha'Zix has the strength of two worlds, Rengar is limited to one.
  4. Mentality. As said, Kha is perfectly designed to slay Runterrans, not just physically but mentally. He doesn't know what fatigue, doubt, or fear is. He is not weighed down by petty thoughts other than to become more biologically perfect. I don't even think he values his own life, at least to a capacity that we do. He looks to kill and evolve until something outdoes him, without the fear of death. The embodiment of Darwinian evolution. Rengar is prideful (hell, his title is the Pridestalker), concerned with what will come after the battle instead of just the battle itself. Rengar has more to lose, thus more to worry about, thus more to slow him down.
  5. You state Rengar has the advantage because of hands. I dare anyone to go into a fight with nothing but their bare fists against someone of equal or greater fighting talent wielding two blades the size of your body that are wielded as seamlessly as any appendage and able to cut through anything from flesh to armor, while being imbued with some extradimensional energy that can only be assumed to be the equivalent of a lightsaber. Even if one does manage to avoid these monstrous weapons, they then have to contend with fangs adept at rending struggling prey, spines that puncture then explode with some sort of corrosive Void energy that also renews the users cellular structure, and velociraptor-like talons for feet. Add in a sleek form that blends into the shadows with or without cloaking (as opposed to blatant white fur), the mobility many insects display, a carapace that provides natural armoring but also doesn't slow down, an unknown biology (how do Voidborn breathe exactly?), plus the fact that even if the flesh is pierced (as seen from the Xer'Sai and Diana's fight) is acidic to the touch; I doubt Rengar will be wanting to drop his weapons any time during the battle.

Again, is it a guaranteed victory? Definitely not. But the combination of Kha'Zix being a perfect-born killer, an enigmatic creature, and a nightmare child of a hostile plane of existence that has shattered the sanity of mortals with its mere gaze; Rengar has a lot to prepare for and contend with.

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