My biggest lore-based fear.

Ryugi Kazamaru··14 votes·3,762 views

Firstly, props to Mr. McNeil for his grand writing talent, and to the teams and persons responsible for the new long-form bios of our Shadow Isles friends. I think you guys have done incredible work, and have served to "flesh out" these spooky specters in new and interesting ways. However, as others have noted, there seems to be a trend I'm seeing that is worrying me somewhat.

Now, I understand that the most recent lore events, namely Bilgewater and now the Shadow Isles, are places that exude a grim sort of atmosphere. And while I loved Fiora's new long-form Bio, it also had a similar sense of uneasiness and darkness running through it. I'm all for Demacia having some darker stains on it's white tablecloth, don't get me wrong, but there's been a tone shift recently toward darker stories. I suppose the easiest way to say it is that things seem more "grimdark" than they were before.

Mr. McNeil is well known for his writing in the Warhammer IP. I have friends who swear by his work and hail him as a king among lore writers for that world. I wouldn't know, as I've never really read anything from it, and it isn't my style, particularly. That universe is a very grimdark universe, incredibly brutal in its telling. And with the last few developments in narrative, I'm seeing a trend toward these sorts of stories and little else.

That scares me.

I love the Runeterra universe. I love the characters, the world, and just about everything about it. I liked the removal of the Institute to open it up for more dramatic stories. And I liked how Shurima and Freljord were opened up for more conflict and storytelling there as well. But the thing that has seemed to escape me recently is the lighthearted side of things. And yes, I read the joke about the sea monster "shitting out" Olaf, but that's not what I mean.

We used to have stories, admittedly small ones, of things that were jovial and funny, not so grimdark serious. Like Veigar trying to steal the Mothership, only to be thwarted by a flock of birds popping his balloons. Anyone remember the time Sivir got drunk and crashed a car in Demacia? That wouldn't fit into the new world, admittedly, but the nature of these stories had a different sort of tone. The universe didn't take itself so dangerously seriously, and while I DO HONESTLY LIKE the more "realistic" and "serious" nature of the characters and stories being told, (like Miss Fortune FINALLY being seen as more of a badass, and not some redheaded bimbo or floozy), I just hope that as time goes on, the writers remember that part of what made Runeterra fun and interesting was that it had a lighter side too.

A single poop joke isn't the same thing, and neither are skins since they aren't canon for the most part.

The world itself has room for more stories that aren't as gory, aren't as brutal, and aren't as serious. Even our world, with how "real" and terrible it can sometimes be, with wars, disasters, political tensions, and everything else, can still have events and stories that remind people to laugh, and that life isn't always a grim existence. There's a quiet wonderment and enjoyment that can come from things like that, that inject more realism and humanity into a world than just splayed entrails and detailed descriptions of gore.

There is a time and place for such things in fiction, most definitely, and I'm not trying to say that such details or stories are somehow invalid. War and strife is part of that. But a writer should be able to balance the grimdark with something else. Perhaps a sense of hope and pride, or a feeling of laughter at the absurdity of the reality of your situation, something to remind people that life isn't always a serious black abyss of suffering and dystopian ideals and then you die.

I'm terrible at ending these sorts of things, so I'll simply say that, as Riot goes forward with their beloved universe, and one that I love just as much as they do, that they keep these things in mind. I hope the thing I love doesn't turn into just "in the grim darkness of Runeterra", and that it still has room for fossilized cupcakes, robotic groin-shots, and the forbidden love story of a cactus and a sentient armadillo.

22 Comments

RiotDinopawz19 votes

Totally agree on the need for a varied texture in storytelling, folks. Runeterra is a big place, and, absolutely, there's room for fun, knockabout stuff (case in point, some stuff I'm planning out just now...) as well as grim, bloody mayhem.

In this case, we figured that a story about the spirits of the dead coming to Bilgewater in the midst of a bloody gang war wasn't ever going to get a 'U' rating. More a 15 (or is that a PG-13 in the US...?) edging towards the higher ratings in moderation. But like all worlds in which fantastical stories of magic, monsters and warriors etc. are set, to keep things interesting, we need a good variety of story types and tones, and - going forward - I think it will be only right and proper we develop a broad palette of storytelling modes, each of which will take its tone from the subject, character, setting and the like.

Remember to tune in tomorrow, Thursday and Friday for the concluding parts of Shadow and Fortune.

Hellioning4 votes

I just don't think that going directly from Bilgewater, and all that nastiness, to the undeath and doom of the SI was a good idea. I would have put something in between, for levity.

Chromatic Eagle8 votes

Well ironically, this is something we wanted from Freljord for a while now: a sequel to a story. Part of why we're complaining is that we're still in the middle of a retcon storm, so there's fear that we're stuck in a grimdark setting.

Neamean5 votes

I would of put "Graves and Twisted Fate Misadventure In Piltover" in between Burning Tides and Shadow and Fortune, where in the end it would be like Graves: God dammit Tobias you got it chased out of another town TwistedFate : What you mean I got us chased out it was all your fault (Que Laugh Track)

Hellioning1 votes

Sounds about right.

Pyrodinium1 votes

.

Pyrodinium3 votes

I disagree. The audience had their eye upon Bilgewater, and were already expecting the coming of the Black Mist, teased a year ago.

Putting something between the two developments would have diluted the tension and created the feeling that the MF/Gangplank story, which ended in a cliffhanger, was being left incomplete (which, you might recall has been a painful trend regarding how the lore community perceives the work of Narrative).

Ryugi Kazamaru3 votes

{quoted}

Totally agree on the need for a varied texture in storytelling, folks. Runeterra is a big place, and, absolutely, there's room for fun, knockabout stuff (case in point, some stuff I'm planning out just now...) as well as grim, bloody mayhem.

In this case, we figured that a story about the spirits of the dead coming to Bilgewater in the midst of a bloody gang war wasn't ever going to get a 'U' rating. More a 15 (or is that a PG-13 in the US...?) edging towards the higher ratings in moderation. But like all worlds in which fantastical stories of magic, monsters and warriors etc. are set, to keep things interesting, we need a good variety of story types and tones, and - going forward - I think it will be only right and proper we develop a broad palette of storytelling modes, each of which will take its tone from the subject, character, setting and the like.

Remember to tune in tomorrow, Thursday and Friday for the concluding parts of Shadow and Fortune.

Thank you so much for your response. This was exactly the sort of thing I was hoping to hear.

I have to admit my knowledge of your personal work only comes from what my friends have told me, and what they had to say was all positive. Something like, "In a universe that was soaked in chaos and twisted, grim death and suffering, he managed to tell stories of hope and humanity, and make everything seem great." From some of my friends, that's a huge compliment.

My main point in writing this wasn't to criticize the dark tone of Shadow and Fortune (which I will be eagerly reading and enjoying). I think this kind of event truly needs that dark touch, simply because of everything that is at stake here. My main focus of fascination, after all, typically lies with Noxus, and it is one of the darkest empires in Runeterra, especially the slums, which I was overjoyed to see penned in Karthus' new lore with all the squalor and difficulties I had imagined them to have.

Mainly, it was a hope that the writing team in general remembered the lighter side of things as well as they went forward, and as per your reply, I feel that they'll do just that. So, thank you for putting some of my fears to rest.

Now I can focus more completely on the fears that the Shadow Isles are bringing to Bilgewater.

Pyrodinium10 votes

Personally, those silly stories always seemed pointless to me.

But I would argue that we have had some pieces of the lore that are not as grim.

Without going further, Burning Tides' story between Graves and Tobias was about renewed friendship and forgiveness.

The Bard preview page conveyed a sense of wonder at the world.

Shurima was way more epic than grim (the focus of the story was the return of the Ascended rather than the tragic fate of the ancient empire).

I think we are just treading over a particularly grim patch right now.

Ryugi Kazamaru2 votes

{quoted}

I think we are just treading over a particularly grim patch right now.

I've also considered this. I hope this is the case. The Shadow Isles NEED to be grim and scary and terrifying. They need to make your heart feel heavy at the torment and suffering, to draw you in with the sheer power and scope of these beings, so you know just how awful and dangerous the Black Mist and the Harrowing really are. And Bilgewater's back alleys are only so much safer, and they should be able to show that too, especially when it's mixed with the Harrowing that's coming.

I totally get that. My hope, though, is that it IS just a patch, and that we'll also get some fun stories down the line as well, to show that the whole world isn't quite as grim. Shurima was epic and grand, certainly, and Bard was also such. But both had tales of suffering mixed in with them, and betrayal and death. So, we'll see.

I hope you're right.

Spizzle90003 votes

I do understand that you don't desire a lore made up of gloom, sorrow, and despair, and I respect that. In fact, I bet most people do.

But, true to the stereotypes of a moody teenager, I honestly love the grimness. The twisted sadism of Thresh in his new lore, the treachery and cold, calculated, but brutal strikes of Hecarim, the almost Sauron-esque/Voldemortish new lore of Mordekaiser, and the perverseness of Karthus.

I do believe there should be a somewhat lighter side of LoL, but I feel like the grimness does fit a large chunk of it: as you said, the world is a rather brutal place, especially in LoL. Noxus is a city of brutality and ruthlessness, which makes it strong. Demacia is a land of treachery and cruelty barely covered by a disgusting sense of self-righteousness. Ionia doesn't have much newer lore, but it is a war-torn island full of frickin' ninjas (Order of Shadows) and flying castles. Zaun is a land of twisted science experiments, as is Piltover, but slightly cleaner.

Hellioning6 votes

I agree; a game that has Teemo in it is truly one of despiar and pain.

sp4414 votes

I argue the exact opposite, they ARE extremely necessary.

Thing is, life is not a big drama peace where heroes and villains fall dramatically at the end of each act, and imminent doom always lurks across every corner. Adding those silly little side-stories where Gragas goes on bar fights with Jax humanizes the champions, it makes them look like they have a life beyond fighting on the Fields of Justice, or being dramatic on whatever big storyline Riot is making. It also fleshes out the world, and showing the small, silly, but bright moments of their lives highlights why they fight for what they fight, it shows the lives that they are protecting and it adds contrast for when we go into the darkness. If your story is just sadness and horror, it's going to burn out readers fast, and even the most dramatic death possible won't have the desired effect.

Pyrodinium1 votes

That part of my response was targeted specifically at the examples cited: Veigar's pidgeon-foiled steal attempt and Sivir wrecking her car.

Those two are pointless stories because they add nothing to the conversation. They are just silliness for its own sake, and don't build upon the lore in any meaningful way.

In contrast, I would say that a tale about Gragas and Jax drinking bouts at least serves to explore their friendship, and if well done could be much more.

Daedalus8715 votes

You have to have some conflict.

I could read a page about how Braum fed all the poros homemade cookies and that's how he became friends with them, but that's it.

GenoXx4 votes

Omg, can eveyone pls stop??? It's the Harrowing. It is suppose to be grimdark. Geez, what are YOU expecting? Sppoky skeletons dancing and laughing to get casually knocked down to juts bones by a random bystander?

God u ppl need lighten up

Valaran Nara1 votes

{quoted}

Omg, can eveyone pls stop??? It's the Harrowing. It is suppose to be grimdark. Geez, what are YOU expecting? Sppoky skeletons dancing and laughing to get casually knocked down to juts bones by a random bystander?

God u ppl need lighten up

I'm only listening to these fears once it's Snowdown. Snowdown is suppose to be a joyous time, so if we get grimdark there, then it is bad. Otherwise.

Pyrodinium1 votes

Although Snowdown may not even carry a lore event.

Chromatic Eagle8 votes

People are expressing concern, not panicking, so I don't understand the patronizing.

Peridition1 votes

Didn't they already say McNeil had no part in writing the Burning Tides or Kindred's lore?

It seems like Bligewater and the Shadow Isles were already dark places in lore. Which really you should evaluate the content before assessing that its too "grimdark". We're talking about** pirates** and the undead. They are dark subjects. Pirates are raiders, murders, thieves, and criminal thugs. They were excessively violent and lawless. What you consider dark, I simply consider realistic.

Ryugi Kazamaru1 votes

{quoted}

Didn't they already say McNeil had no part in writing the Burning Tides or Kindred's lore?

It seems like Bligewater and the Shadow Isles were already dark places in lore. Which really you should evaluate the content before assessing that its too "grimdark". We're talking about** pirates** and the undead. They are dark subjects. Pirates are raiders, murders, thieves, and criminal thugs. They were excessively violent and lawless. What you consider dark, I simply consider realistic.

The latest lore story is his work. I already responded to the rest of your comments above.

Kuroi861 votes

With champs likeBraum Gragas Heimerdinger Jinx Lulu Rumble Vi Ziggs around I feel there's tons of room for more light hearted and hilarious stories to come.

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