@Narrative Team - Problems with Jhin from a writer

Ryugi Kazamaru·1/29/2016, 11:07:03 PM·37 votes·3,829 views

So, I made a post a while back saying how Jhin "should" have been a Demacian killer of sorts, because he fit that atmosphere so well (as an antagonistic force in their perfect world), and Demacia is really lacking for any signs that their nation is less perfect than they seem to think it is. And, I had my misgivings about Jhin and his design then, however, I'd hoped his long lore would put some of those fears to rest, or at least give proper reasoning and development behind everything.

But with that lore released, I have to say I am disappointed in the quality and integrity of the writing, and of the story/wouldbuilding in regards to Jhin and his character. And, rather than be one of those people who flies into an angry tirade of calling it bad with no proper criticism, I'll do my best to explain why my problems exist with Jhin, and where.

Firstly, I’d hoped his long lore would help him to make more sense and fit into the world, but, in my opinion, I feel it does little of that. After reading his design process, though, I feel I know why. It’s because he started off as the farthest thing from Ionian (a robotic bounty-hunting sniper cowboy), and then wound up being from Ionia because you found inspiration for his design in that area. As a writer, I can appreciate that inspiration can come from many places, but I honestly have to question Jhin fitting into Ionia at all, from any standpoint.

He doesn’t look Ionian, he doesn’t act Ionian (psychopathic personality aside, but a given), and even the long lore reveals nothing that makes him uniquely Ionian (as a personal aside a friend of mine, new to playing League, thought he was Demacian when his teaser image and art were released, only adding to the design disconnect I mentioned). I feel he’s there only because he "had" to be. Compared to "Shadow and Fortune", "Burning Tides", the Shadow Isles champion lore, Kindred's beautiful lore and design, his long lore reads so flatly and dry in comparison.

I feel no depth, and I can't help but feel like it was rushed to completion, as opposed to everything else mentioned above, which feels so coherent and flows so well. Honestly, Jhin's bio feels like a rough cut of mismatched plot threads, bound together more by necessity than world cohesion. And, given the tone and direction of Narrative's recent works, I feel that's a poor choice, and a dangerous one.

Honestly, I feel we learn more about everything and everyone else but Jhin in his bio, and it's supposed to be his story. We learn about Shen, Zed, and Shen's father Kusho. But, even the bits added in about those three, interesting as they are, I feel, make less sense in context based on what we know of these characters. It is stated that interacting with Jhin's murders is what made Shen turn somber, after being a witty kind of person.

But, didn't Shen turn stoic and somber because that’s what’s demanded of the "Eye of Twilight", as he’s supposed to judge balance and how the actions of the Triumvirate relate to the whole? Or, are you suggesting that this changed Shen before he became the Eye? And what about Zed? Are you saying that Zed's resentment of Kusho began with Jhin's murders and that investigation, and that led to him betraying the ninja, and that it had less to do with favoritism for Shen as suggested in previous writings? Either way, there is a kind of clarity that is lacking here, and I feel it shows in the writing.

The Wuju Masters were apparently deployed in the Noxian/Ionian War. That’s cool to know, and at least we have insight into that now, but were they still wiped out by Singed in that conflict as well? There is little clarity of timeframes and events taking place here in the long lore, and that's also a weakness. We don't know how long this was outside of "before the war" to some degree. And that lack of detail is troubling.

Next is the problem with Jhin's weapons. No other weapons like them exist in Ionia, as per their narrative identity. And yet Jhin has no connection with them mentioned in his lore, only a mention of "smithing" which is very different, unless you're suggesting the smithing he's familiar with is "gunsmithing" which, for Ionian culture, is still a direct disconnect from what should readily be available to him. I feel this was hand-waived by the mention of "the Kashuri armories' new weapons" which suggests, based on Jhin's weapons, that Ionia now has advanced Hextech like Piltover, since his weapon is basically that. This causes some severe problems for the narrative direction of Ionia, and honestly, blurs their identity as an entity in the world. From a worldbuilding standpoint, I feel that weakens their identity rather than strengthens it.

Granted, in our world, the Chinese were using gunpowder and gunpowder weapons long before any western powers were, so it’s possible that Ionia could have invented cannons or even firearms in general first. I'm willing to give them that. However, saying that Ionia has a secret weapons development program (Kaushuri) capable of developing advanced weaponry on par with anything in Piltover, with its top scientists and academic minds, is very much contrary to the culture you have set down and built for years.

Also, the namedropping in Jhin's long lore troubles me as well. Some of these things are substantial, like the aforementioned "Kashuri Armories". That is world-changing information, if intended. But what worries me about it is that it sounds a lot like this has a bad case of "Rule of Cool" going on, which I've been told by Rioters is something you're all trying to desperately avoid these days. The same can be said of the supposed "Twelve Seas" mentioned in Gangplank's lore, or the "Temple of the Falcon" in Xerath's old lore (which I have on good authority was just random flavor text tossed in with no true worldly connection), or Riven's "42nd Standard" or even "Fury Company" mentioned in her bio (which I also have on good authority was "Rule of Cool" with no real canon for the military organization of Noxus considered).

I'm sure I could go on and on were I to look through old lores and find examples of this, but this is "New Lore" in a time when the setting is trying to hold true to itself and build upon it for more connected and mature and meaningful stories. If you're simply tossing out names or facts or concepts with no worldly importance or connection beyond that single story, then how is this any different than the old and disjointed lore that you're now trying to improve upon? How does "Twelve Seas" even work on a map? We only manage to get seven on our world, and that's splitting some of them in half to make two! Things like the town in Poppy's comic or lore, or Buhru in Illaoi's lore, all had significance and development around them. But this long lore for Jhin, again in my opinion, feels rushed and incomplete, without regards for the integrity of the chosen setting of Ionia.

After all the good things to come out last year in regards to lore and worldbuilding, I feel Jhin is a step backward, and a drop in overall quality. He strikes a blow against established lore and development as easily as his bullets find purchase against his targets. And, really, only in his mind are they beautiful. I feel there is a parallel here in some respects. His teasers had no real in-world significance, his long lore feels rushed and mismatched, and it adds a great deal of confusion to a well established setting. In my opinion, I feel that Jhin as a concept should have stayed in the icebox and chilled a while longer until a more appropriate story could be crafted for him, and the world. Or, at least one a little more cohesive with the world and foundations.

Thank you for your time, and I hope to receive some feedback, or at least some explanations on some of my points from some folks "in the know." I understand I'll likely get downvoted for voicing my opinion and criticisms, but at least I tried to present them constructively, hopefully in a way where such things can be avoided in the future.


TL:DR - Read the last two paragraphs.

30 Comments

GreenLore1/30/2016, 12:45:04 AM21 votes

I agree with you in some points,but not everywhere,so let me phrase my thoughts about this:

  • Comparison with other lore pieces You should keep in mind that champions these days get a full lore that consists of 2 parts. What you read is a bio that describes jhins "origins",there'll be most likely a second one in the form of a small story. So comparing it to other lore pieces seems a bit out of place.

  • The ninjas in the story I also feel like the lore focuses a bit too much on the ninjas,it feels like they threw it in,because they didn't want to give us too much information. Regardless I feel like this is actually some really nice insight,it shows why Shen was chosen by his father and not Zed,because Shen actually became rather emotionless during this task,which qualified him for being the eye of twilight and not Zed. Becoming emotionless is not something you can do over night(and having your emotions surpressed from your birth on can backfire spectacularly),so Shen becoming like this over years actually makes more sense in my opinion.

  • The Wuju masters Its a bit odd how you complain at one point about the story focusing too much on others,but then also complain about the lack of more information about the wuju-masters,after all they were rather meaningless for the story,so why should they go into more detail about them? I mean I also want to get some more information about them,but the bio feels already a bit like it focuses too much on other characters,so I think that its a good thing they left it out here,its something that is better explored in other lores.

  • Why not demacian? Honestly I think Jhin would feel of place for demacia as well,because there is nothing demacian about him except for the color scheme of white&gold and while color coding is not that bad for factions,it should not be overdone,so that every champ who wears a specific color automatically has to be from that specific city state(I mean I've seen already people who thought Morgana or Veigar could use void-powers just because they are purple(Or at least veigar used to look purple in his old splash)). And robotic arms and guns have nothing to do with demacia as well(lucian just has magic stones with handles). Personally I'd say he would have fit into piltover quite well,as piltover is also lacking an "evil" champ and Ekkos lore implies that piltovians are rather snobby and see themselves as superior,which would fit an artist who sees everyone else just as his puppets for his play and with Jhins rather clean design.

  • Why Jhin is an Ionian and how it fits into the worldbuilding You say that Jhin pretty much goes against the worldbuilding that they've done so far,but I wouldn't say that. Why?Because a common theme among the ionian champs(especially the darker ones Syndra Zed Varus) is how the ionian traditions and peacefulness caused the nation to become vulnerable. Now after the war there are those in ionia who want to hold on to the traditions and those who think the traditions are only a hindrance. Jhin is someone who thinks the traditions are a weakness,which is why he doesn't look very ionian. Just like Syndra,Zed and Varus use "forbidden powers/techniques",Jhin uses technology,something that was never valued by Ionia until recently,which brings me to my next point.

  • The guns and technology You compare Ionia to china when it comes to the weapons,but I think you should rather compare it to Japan. Japan was a nation that lived rather isolated for a very long time,which caused it to fall behind in terms of technology compared to other nations. However once it was pretty much forced to open to the rest of the world,it started to quickly catch up to everyone else. And Ionia mirrors this evolution.They lived isolated on their small island,but that changed when the fire nation the noxian/zaun-alliance attacked. At least a part of the ones sitting on the top realize how important technology can be and thus try to catch up to the others and just like Japan,they are doing it fast.

Nikoyopu1/30/2016, 2:53:16 AM8 votes

I have to say from start to finish I have been extremely disappointed with this guys lore.

Shen and the others are nice and all but reading the lore of Jhin sounds more about them than it does about him.

There is no indication of how he got the deadeye title, nothing on why the four champoins in the teasers were those four (except maybe zed), and no explanation for his ridiculously insightful quotes. How on earth could he know about Katarina and Garen's relationship for example? Or Lucian's lore which he didn't even reveal in the Harrowing to anyone.

Unlike Illaoi who's release and build up gave us a greater understanding of Bilgewater, or Kindred who added to our knowlage of Runterra as a whole, this gives us minimal insight into two other champions, and that's it. As for insight into Jhin it gives us about as much insight into the Virtuoso's mind as Rammus' lore gives us into his.

Oh and the writing of the long lore was flat. VERRY flat. As though to add insult to injury. All told I am extremely disappointed in this round of lore.

Yes this was absolutely a rant with little or no constructive criticism. But I did have to get it off of my chest.

The Loveless1/30/2016, 3:46:27 AM6 votes

TL; DR he's a Kimbley ripoff.

(I actually did read your post FYI. I wish they would give us a Darkin or Watcher instead of these insignificant characters.)

NecromanciCat1/31/2016, 10:18:49 AM2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ryugi Kazamaru,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=Yc3smR7k,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-01-29T23:07:03.234+0000)

Firstly, I’d hoped his long lore would help him to make more sense and fit into the world, but, in my opinion, I feel it does little of that. After reading his design process, though, I feel I know why. It’s because he started off as the farthest thing from Ionian (a robotic bounty-hunting sniper cowboy), and then wound up being from Ionia because you found inspiration for his design in that area. As a writer, I can appreciate that inspiration can come from many places, but I honestly have to question Jhin fitting into Ionia at all, from any standpoint.

I'd immediately like to point this out: Just because there's a basic theme for a place, that doesn't mean that it has to remain "this way or no way." As a writer myself, I'd prefer to see more characters that shatter the mold for cookie-cutter nations:characters. A regressive from Piltover, a rogue Demacian, a chivalrous Noxian, etc... I'm interested in seeing those characters. I'll go more into this in a second.

He doesn’t look Ionian, he doesn’t act Ionian (psychopathic personality aside, but a given), and even the long lore reveals nothing that makes him uniquely Ionian (as a personal aside a friend of mine, new to playing League, thought he was Demacian when his teaser image and art were released, only adding to the design disconnect I mentioned).

A murderous, psychopathic Ionian elates me. I'm so incredibly happy to see them break out of the typical personalities a character from a given nation has, that I hope there are more characters like this in the future. My favorite movie of all time is The Silence of the Lambs and I can already draw a huge parallel to the antagonist of it with Jhin. Buffalo Bill murders women because he thinks by [SPOILERS(maybe, I don't really know lol)] taking the skin of beautiful women, he can become a beautiful woman himself. He's trying to create beauty [/(potential)SPOILERS]. That's the same thing with Jhin, he sees magnificence in his killings. His outlook on the world is obviously one that mirrors a canvas, and as his lore said, his gun is his paintbrush. He truly believes he's creating beauty with every killing. They're the same in that the idea of beauty is so important to them they feel the need to fulfill it themselves.

As a note about your friend thinking he's Demacian, This is Jhin's splash, as you can see, his main colors are gold, white, and dark blue, with a bit of red. There's a very specific reason for this that I noticed as soon as I saw it. These are all regal colors, so the white is more of a cream color. This is meant to make him look sophisticated, so his killings are that much more disturbing.

Honestly, Jhin's bio feels like a rough cut of mismatched plot threads, bound together more by necessity than world cohesion.

I'll be honest, Jhin is one of the few characters that I've actually done some reading about lore and origins, so I'm not incredibly familiar with the bios of other characters. I just haven't been interesting in any aside from a select few. I'll just mention that RetCon (retroactive continuity) is something that's used in a lot of writing, mainly comics, and could easily be applied to a game like this because of the constant stream of new characters that are released and need to be fit into the world. Basically, trying to fit a square into a rhombus isn't something that'll go well, so you need to alter things. It sucks, but it can't be helped.

Honestly, I feel we learn more about everything and everyone else but Jhin in his bio, and it's supposed to be his story. We learn about Shen, Zed, and Shen's father Kusho. But, even the bits added in about those three, interesting as they are, I feel, make less sense in context based on what we know of these characters. It is stated that interacting with Jhin's murders is what made Shen turn somber, after being a witty kind of person.

I like that we learn a bit about the big players behind Jhin's arrest; I think this adds the depth you think is lacking. From the get-go, we already know that Shen and Zed are the two obstacles in Jhin's world, so there's potential for a lot of interesting interactions (already shown from the released interaction lines between them) and it also sets in stone how Jhin came to the forefront of things. Plus we definitely don't learn more about them. Zed, Shen, and Kusho investigated his killings, Zed wanted him dead, Kusho wanted him spared, Shen didn't care either way. They all changed in one way, and that's that. Meanwhile we learn that Jhin is intelligent, gifted in thespianism, murderous, delusional, and why and how he comes to the League.

And what about Zed? Are you saying that Zed's resentment of Kusho began with Jhin's murders and that investigation, and that led to him betraying the ninja, and that it had less to do with favoritism for Shen as suggested in previous writings?

Zed is one of the few characters that I know a bit about, and I'd like to mention that it's very likely that Zed's hatred started here, and the favoritism was just the straw that broke the camel's back.

The Wuju Masters were apparently deployed in the Noxian/Ionian War. That’s cool to know, and at least we have insight into that now, but were they still wiped out by Singed in that conflict as well? There is little clarity of timeframes and events taking place here in the long lore, and that's also a weakness. We don't know how long this was outside of "before the war" to some degree. And that lack of detail is troubling.

I'm sure it's safe to assume that this happened before Singed wiped them out. I don't think Riot overlooked something so big, and to be honest, I don't think needing an exact date is relevant. It wasn't terribly important, so "before the war" is acceptable. What I find interesting is that you were just deriding the big parts of the ninja trio, but you want more information that's not relevant about the Wuju masters.

Next is the problem with Jhin's weapons. No other weapons like them exist in Ionia, as per their narrative identity.

However, saying that Ionia has a secret weapons development program (Kaushuri) capable of developing advanced weaponry on par with anything in Piltover, with its top scientists and academic minds, is very much contrary to the culture you have set down and built for years.

If a cabal of Ionia is willing to use a psychopath to his own advantage, it's not very far-fetched that he'd be doing a lot of shady things behind the scenes. And a lot of governments hide things from the populace, it's just how government works. As someone else mentioned, paying a Piltover scientist to design weapons for the cabal's new tool is easily feasible.

Also, the namedropping in Jhin's long lore troubles me as well. Some of these things are substantial, like the aforementioned "Kashuri Armories".

It may come up again, it may not. Either way, it's not necessarily world-changing. If it was something that was supposed to be kept secret then it's likely not something that will be brought up unless it's needed later.

But this long lore for Jhin, again in my opinion, feels rushed and incomplete, without regards for the integrity of the chosen setting of Ionia.

I think the incompleteness is intentional. It leaves the character still shrouded in mystery, but still gives some insight onto him. His motives are clear: For beauty. He's a mysterious character, so I like that there's a lot left, it makes us want more.

His teasers had no real in-world significance, his long lore feels rushed and mismatched, and it adds a great deal of confusion to a well established setting. In my opinion, I feel that Jhin as a concept should have stayed in the icebox and chilled a while longer until a more appropriate story could be crafted for him, and the world. Or, at least one a little more cohesive with the world and foundations.

They're teasers, what do you expect? Also, I think you're also over-analyzing minor details and confusing yourself. What I think should have been "left in the icebox" is his in game kit, it's pretty boring. Aside from his amazing ultimate.

P.S. This was a nightmare to type. I hit backspace when I didn't have the typing cursor up, lost 10 minutes of response. Then I accidentally clicked my link and lost 15 more minutes of typing -_-

P.S.S It's also 2:20 am and I just got off of work, so forgive any typos that you may find.

Courier Eight1/30/2016, 7:39:59 PM2 votes

Well, Jhin's backstory doesn't need to be terribly complex- he simply lives for the thrill of his perfect, meticulous killings. He had done so for years before the Kinkou Order's investigation, he did so for years during their investigation, and he would have done the same thing forever until Master Kusho and his apprentices finally caught him. Besides a desperate, gnawing need to create, he's perfectly content with his life. The investigation marks one of the only major shifts in his life, from freewheeling "Golden Dragon" to ex-con turned secret weapon of the Ionian state, and it makes sense for the lore to focus on the investigation rather than Jhin himself.

DynamiteGazelle1/30/2016, 1:14:14 PM1 votes

It’s because he started off as the farthest thing from Ionian (a robotic bounty-hunting sniper cowboy), and then wound up being from Ionia because you found inspiration for his design in that area.

Oh my god, I'm glad I'm not the only who feels like this. Actually, there are a few of the recent champions who really just feel like a mish-mash of random ideas, and you can totally see that the champion went through many different iterations.

Bard is one that come to mind. For example: obviously Bard was originally thought of as being an actual bard or musician, but evolved to become some weird celestial superbeing. However, there are still remnants of the musical element to the kit, which to me feels like leftovers from his original concept rather than something that's important to the champions final identity.

Kalista is another one that feels off to me, but in a different way. In her lore they try so hard to push the whole "conglomeration of spirits" idea, but there is nothing in her appearance, kit, or V.O. that really does much to promote that idea. The best they could do was make her say "we" in a bunch of her lines.

The more time goes on, the less cohesive I feel the identities of new champs become..

Dengeden1/30/2016, 1:16:28 PM1 votes

A lot has been said more eloquently than I ever could. Here goes:

I can only reiterate what I anon'd you once: Demacia's main faults seem to be the indoctrination (see Lux) and zealotry/fanaticism (see their fighters) of its people. Placing Jhin there because it has an aristocracy with obligatory interest in the arts is ... possible but not mandatory.

His weapons are a mixture of backstage tools used in theatre and whatever the Ionion smithy had to offer btw.

Your beef with Riot for making things up as they go along and for introducing names for the flair of it only goes so far. They don't want you to hear every detail and go "oh, I've heard that before, what's next?". Because you know we will, there's only so much that drives us humans (and thusly, our stories).

Stars Shaper1/30/2016, 1:27:29 PM1 votes

Didn't read all the thread but I agree with you when you say that the writings in his story doesn't feels inspired and really "fast".

I don't think his character doesn't fit Ionia, we still know only a part of its society and him being the Phantom of the Opera in an ionian theatre seems enough for him to have an out-of-canon personality.

The Lore unfolds as a mere description of what a detective series episode might be, we might need the Short Story to get more.

Blue Moon Wolf1/30/2016, 3:12:27 PM1 votes

It was a bit sad to when they mentioned the Wuju masters but didn't go into much detail, but I was happy they even mentioned them. Before it just seemed like a form of martial art that was used in one village and got wiped out so Now the only ones who even practice it are MasterYi and MonkeyKing. With the little they added, we found out that Wuju masters were much more than masters of a martial art, but more like the militia of Ionia and would go on patrols to keep areas safe. Keeping that in mind, we can now also assume that MasterYi and MonkeyKing would do just as the old masters of Wuju did and keep the people of Ionia safe from threats. Though I do have an Issue about how his lore answered why Zed was one of the champs used for his taser, but gave no explanation for Garen Sona and Vi . Garen sort of makes sense listening to Jhin taunt for him and Sona as well considering she is a performer and hates sharing the spotlight, But Vi seem right out from left field. The only link they have is that they are made by the same person and are (possibly) numbered.

Blodjägare1/30/2016, 4:50:39 PM1 votes

I'm one of those that were super hyped about his release from the moment i saw 'mind of the virtuoso' and yet i can't feel anything but "meh" after reading his lore. It's just so... bland. It felt just like the summary of his lore. No questions are really answered it's basically the adventures of 3 ninjas finding one terrifying assassin. I hope they release something more to fill the gaps.

Stars Shaper1/30/2016, 10:54:38 PM1 votes

I just noticed... ontop of the page of Jhin's Bio you can see that the story has a " I " in a circle.

This thing is just the first champter of his Story, we have 3 more to read :)

KING OF MASKS1/31/2016, 2:14:04 AM1 votes

I agree with you on almost every single point you raise, but if you're gonna emphasize how you're a writer (for whatever reason), you might want to edit your post once or twice. You're unnecessarily wordy and very redundant in your phrasing ("I feel").

Not trying to be a dick -- normally, I wouldn't have even noticed that sort of thing on the Boards. I also recognize the possibility that you may not write in English as a primary language, so if that's the case I doubly apologize.

Chromatic Eagle1/31/2016, 9:27:41 PM1 votes

So Ionian government is corrupted because reasons, and release him during-after the Noxian war to counter the forces fighting for Ionia? Then it seems like he's killing his people instead of the enemy. The writing feels flat, and if anything, makes Zed look like a good guy which isn't bad, but feels off. Granted maybe there's more lore coming, but I feel disappointed.

Solerian1/29/2016, 11:29:46 PM1 votes

I was under the impression his long, developed lore was to be released when he was. Am I mistaken? I don't believe what we have so far is the official product.

Ryugi Kazamaru2/3/2016, 1:06:09 AM1 votes

After reading through some of his Q&A, I can't understand the haphazard sort of mentality that has lead to Jhin's creation and subsequent injection into the world. This has been handled in anything but a delicate touch, and feel so much more like it's been hammered into place with a blunt instrument. There's no finesse to this, and Jhin actively serves as a huge disconnect between Riot's own, and self-stated, concepts on character design and tying them to the world. Jhin does not fit in the world in the place he's been forcibly placed, and the whole of Ionia had to change just to accommodate him and his guns.

In my opinion, Jhin represents the absolute worst kind of worldbuilding and character creation habits when it comes to designing within a certain setting and universe. He defies any and all conventions showcased previously, and warps existing ones almost beyond recognition. He does not follow Riot's internal design strategies for tying color and style to a particular setting, his weapon style doesn't fit into Ionia as it exists, and so, they've been forced to radically alter an existing setting just to accommodate him.

There has been a disconnect with him from the very beginning, and the worst part of this is, I don't feel they actually understand the issues with the road they've chosen to follow for this, at least from a lore perspective and character design considerations. The vast majority of League players don't care about the lore and story. They care about ranks, banning Tahm Kench from toplane, playing ARAM, or just trying to have a good time. The story doesn't matter. But for those of us who do care about these things, I'd be doing a disservice if I didn't point out the flaws I see from my perspective.

Taking risks is a part of anything creative. You don't know how it'll pan out in the long run, because nothing is perfect. To the lore community, Fiora's rework from a story perspective was brilliant. It showcased so much about Demacian internal affairs and politics from the noble standpoint that we'd never had before, and gave Demacia some much-needed gray space to its shiny exterior. Her outfit and attire, other than the awkward pointy cape and awkward facial design, which were fairly odd, were strongly rooted in Demacia's cultural identity. The new Fiora said "Demacian" in all senses. From a game design standpoint, she may have lost some of her champion identity ingame that people enjoyed, but from a narrative standpoint, she was green across most fields.

And yet there was a huge devlog about why Fiora was apparently a failure.

Compared to Fiora, Jhin is a huge failure, in my opinion. While his CHARACTER is very solid, his design is off, his insertion into the world comes at a high price to setting cohesion and design fundamentals Riot has used so well previously by flying in the face of them. There are so many problems here that Fiora is a drop in the bucket, comparatively, to the host of issues Jhin has created. I've never felt so strongly about how "wrong" a champion has been via inclusion into the game since Aatrox was released, adding very little interesting anything to the world or the game itself. But even Aatrox didn't cause as many problems as Jhin has.

xelaker1/30/2016, 2:14:14 AM1 votes

100% agree 1+

LJMcLean1/30/2016, 2:35:01 AM1 votes

I'm a writer as well and there are points you state that are an issue with Jhin.

But I will not say my final thoughts until the whole lore and backstory is released, including the champion himself. I haven't been up to date with the lore since late Season 4. I'll standby and take notes.

TzQGRUST391/30/2016, 3:39:41 AM1 votes

That was only his origins, there will be a short story written. If his origins followed him, it would likely leave little material for the short story. Also, Ionia is not a well established setting, nearly nothing in the lore is well established. I know you are a "writer", but I think you are jumping the gun hard. You are trying to draw parallels from things we know little about. Ionia is it's own place, just because it may be inspired by something doesn't mean it has to follow every single rule set by it. They are trying to create places and characters that are unique, just wait a bit until we get more details, not just immediately jumping to a conclusion.

Tyvani1/30/2016, 6:21:49 AM1 votes

I thought this person had a lot of decent things to say about Jhin. Maybe you would agree with them, but they make points on how his kit doesn't tie in well with his identity or how poorly he was teased at. They also mention disappointment for his origins based on merely the short lore.

But I do agree that he just feels out of place in Ionia and very disconnected all around. I... thought I had a fair point to add to this but I guess I just forgot it... Maybe I'll remember it later. Either way, he's seemed problematic enough as it is that I'm sure we've got plenty of arguments as to why he's a poor character.