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@Narrative Team - An Open Discussion about Mount Targon

Ryugi Kazamaru·2/26/2016, 12:04:22 AM·35 votes·3,548 views

I’ll come out and say it plainly. The new Targon lore creates a vibrant new place in which new stories can be told, and it has gained much in that direction. But it has lost the three characters we once loved. They are no longer the same people with the same motivations. The old Diana, Leona, and Pantheon we all knew are dead and gone, and these three new “Aspects” are in their place. I’ll be touching on all three below, but we’ll start with Diana first.

#Diana -

Diana is possibly the only character with a shred of who they once were still intact. And yet, even in that, she is still not the same person she once was. Diana, previously, was a girl who knew the Solari teachings well, dared to dream of something more, and was punished for it. She became an outcast, hated and reviled, and in turn, fell to a dark place, filled with thoughts of revenge and hatred for those that had caused so much suffering. Of that old persona, only the girl who saw something more and was punished remains.

Instead of being the antagonistic force, the stubborn, hurt, scarred warrior she once was, Diana is now the one seeking peace. This is the exact opposite of her previous personality. While she is dark, subdued, she is a woman who desires to be allies with those that once scored her, that there is no need for them to be enemies, and that they can coexist peacefully and fight together.

But, above all else, Diana shares a trait now common with the other Targonian champions. She is a demigod. Her personality has been superseded by a powerful otherworldly host, that uses her body like a fleshy meat puppet to carry out its whims, and fills her head with visions. All the Targonian champions have this commonality now. But out of the three, Diana showcases this the least, and as a result, has become the ONLY Targonian champion who is easily relatable as a human being.

#Leona -

Leona was once a kind girl born into a tribe of powerful warriors. When she was forced to kill a boy in the pit during her coming of age ceremony, she instead rejected the harsh ways of her people and refused to end his life. Her people were angered by this, but before they could strike her down, a beam of light struck her, and she was taken in by the Solari. There, she became the avatar of the sun, and brought its light and warmth and protection to all who needed it.

That Leona is now dead. Instead of refusing to kill the young warrior, she instead chose to spare and otherworldly creature. In doing so, she again angered the Rakkor, and was forced to fight Atreus (Pantheon) as punishment. A Solari elder, however, halted the fight and took Leona in. There, the kind girl was brainwashed and turned into a powerful warrior who believed only in the light and power of the sun, and her capabilities turned her into the leader of the Ra-Horak, the Solari’s private army of warriors.

This time when Diana came calling, Leona was there, but Diana’s moon powers were too much and she fell, along with the rest of the Solari elders. Outraged and hating Diana, Leona left for the peak of Mount Targon, and encountered the golden demon boy she saved earlier. There, she gained her sun powers, and became even more zealous than she’d ever been before.

The old Leona, who was prideful, yet compassionate and caring, no longer exists. Leona is a warrior who is more along the lines of a Noxian She is brutal and efficient. The power within her is one of fiery destruction, not warmth and comfort as it used to be. It can be argued that she only seeks to protect Targon’s people, and thus uses this radiant force of death on her enemies, but the compassionate side of Leona is missing almost completely in her new lore, wedged in almost as an afterthought to this shining paladin of the sun’s rage and fury, not it’s warmth. If Leona is supposed to be compassionate and caring, the very thing that lead her down this path in the first place, then that part of her is horribly represented in this new telling.

Right now, though, she is the embodiment of the darkness found in the light.

#Pantheon -

Pantheon is no longer the warrior he once was, literally. The man, who once wielded the relic weapons of his people in their defense and rose above the challenges of war by sheer skill is dead and gone, instead replaced with the entity known as Pantheon. Pantheon cares only for one thing, and that thing is war and combat. He is still an aspect of immortality housed in a meaty shell, and apparently can still be killed at great difficulty, but that means little.

Pantheon/Atreus is the clearest example of a character that has been done a disservice by this lore rewrite. While it is also true that most of what we knew of Pantheon (the man) was anecdotal before these changes, his story gave him character, and we could empathize with his situation. Instead, what we are given is something we cannot empathize with. He is a tool, an extension of a powerful otherworldly entity, and a herald of a great fight to come, and nothing more.

The human being who he replaced is gone and dead, and only his body lives. Atreus is a puppet to the Pantheon entity. You cannot empathize with something that has no emotion, no drive, no humanity outside of battle. But that is all Pantheon is. He is a warrior, perhaps a protector, but nothing else, and that is not a compelling or interesting character.

#Conclusion -

I can’t fault the lore and narrative teams for wanting to create a more vibrant place in Targon. It was fairly underdeveloped before, and little was known about it. However, now, Targon isn’t the same place we knew. The character we loved are now completely different in many respects. I heard whispers from the grapevine that people internally didn’t like the new direction of Targon, and after seeing it for myself, I can completely understand why.

Targon has become a more dynamic place, with otherworldly entities and threats looming above the clouds, and a place where supernatural beings infuse their energies into chosen persons to defend the mortal realm from harm. It parallels several themes from mythology and antiquity, and I find that part of the developments really cool, although somewhat poorly explained and defined. Lots of questions are unanswered, but that’s not uncommon for Riot’s narrative team these days. Unanswered questions lead to more speculation and story potential. However, all of this has come with a radical shifting of who these characters are and were.

Diana, the once angry and scorned woman is now the person who desires peace, but she lacks purpose and any real direction, and even her old self had that much. She is shown to be appalled by violence and the carnage she created, where before she was driven by her hatred of what had been done to her and her people. It may have been flawed, but it gave her more character. This strong girl seems to be anything but now, lost and without a true path to follow, even after discovering her beliefs were true.

Leona, the once compassionate warrior is almost anything but, shown to be a Solari zealot and keen on burning any who challenge the light of the sun or Targon to ashes. Where is the woman who turns to her allies and says warmly “I will protect you.” as she charges into the fray? Why was she turned into a woman who seems to show no mercy or care for her foes, when the very thing that drove her before was a desire to protect those who could not protect themselves, and to abhor unnecessary or excessive violence? The sun has set on a more beloved version of the character.

Pantheon has been stripped of all his humanity, literally. He is no longer a person, but an entity. He is driven only by war and conflict. While he was before a powerful leader of his people, now he is only a paragon of an act of aggression, a celestial being wearing a human skin. We already have a character like that, and his name is Aatrox. Why was it necessary to turn Pantheon into this entity? Why toss away his humanity, and an aspect that people could understand and relate to?

There are many things that the Targon lore does fairly well, but there are others to which it does a disservice. When those persons to whom it does a disservice are the very characters that we have come to know, love, and cherish over the years, the very characters that have made Targon what it was, why make those changes? Why not try to keep them intact?

This is something I cannot understand. Every change to Targon’s background and setting could have been accomplished without radically altering the key players. This is not Freljord, where a handful of champions were changed (and some butchered), this is every single one being altered radically for no real apparent reason. Leona and Diana seem to have been reversed, and no longer have the hints of a previous bond. In fact, Leona’s lore even goes so far as to suggest that Leona hates Diana because she’s gone against the Solari teachings. Aspects are a fine addition, but why did they have to bring upon such perversions to these characters?

I have to question the Riot narrative team’s decision-making here, especially in recent months. Jhin came first, followed by this. Where last year was a great development of characters we already knew and loved, as was Shurima, this year has been a systematic deconstruction of places and characters the community loved. Earlier in the year, Riot came out and suggested that they had “missed the mark” on how the community viewed Fiora.

I may be only one person speaking out about it, but I honestly believe Riot has again “missed the mark” about what the lore community found captivating and endearing about these three characters. And if this trend continues, I fear that this year will not be as good a year for lore as the previous ones were, especially if Riot’s narrative teams continue to have such a disconnect between what “makes” a place, setting, and it’s character for them, and for their audience.

36 Comments

All Might Jr2/26/2016, 12:54:13 AM29 votes

Personally I love this lore, and a lot of people's interpretations and criticisms are not only confusing for me, but also just generally ignorant in terms of what assumptions people are making about the characters. I'm not saying it's perfect, as I feel like the Mt. Targon section could've borne the brunt of a lot of the worldbuilding that went into Pantheon and Leona's lores, but my main criticisms aren't along most other people's lines.

Like for instance, Diana I would say is the one character who changed the MOST, and yet people are saying she's the one changed the last. No longer is she the villainous, unrepentant murderer who is lusting after revenge despite already decimating the Solari for her torture. And you can't really justify a genocide for a genocide, which is ultimately what Diana's motivation seemed to be. Stamp out the Solari as they had the Lunari, despite the hypocrisy that that entails.

Leona is STILL largely the same, especially at the end of her lore. While she WAS zealous, violent, and more Rakkorian than we expect, the ending of her lore paints her in a more compassionate light by being willing to share her knowledge with Diana rather than murdering her on the spot. People are complaining about her benevolence being gone, but I honestly just see the compassionate tempered with fury to those that would harm the helpless or weak. Like before, there is no real reason or given explanation for Leona's compassion, simply that it is there. But now at least that compassion is given to those who DESERVE it. She does not give quarter to pillaging barbarians or gibbering abominations, nor to murderous heretics. Because before there was never any mention of how Leona reacted to the Solari being murdered and the temple destroyed. A lot of people simply assumed she'd forgive and forget which I thought was one of the nigh-ultimate disrespectful headcanons people could have for the character. Leona's a fighter, a compassionate defender, but you can't use a pillow as a shield. To protect, you MUST be strong. And Leona, as seen in her and Pantheon's lore, is a lot more focused on defending the innocent rather than following the raiders back to where they came from and destroying them. It's compassion, but more in-line of what we expect from Rakkor rather than the completely out of left field pacifism that was apparent in her older character. And as a brief aside, it's very biased to call religious study "brainwashing". Especially as it wasn't forced upon her, but was actually sought out.

And speaking of character, Pantheon didn't HAVE a character beyond two traits. He wanted to make sure people knew who the Rakkor was, and that he used to be friends with Leona. That was it. He was never given an opinion on anything, he was never given a complex motivation or any real character traits besides "Fighting and pride." So Pantheon now being an Avatar of War rather than a character, is no real difference. Pantheon obviously never had an effect on anyone else's character, and served mainly as a backdrop to Leona in her judgement. In her Judgement he was even going to kill Leona for not doing the duel because he was simply an extension of the Rakkor's will more than a person. And now he is that PERSONIFIED, and given an explanation for his nigh-godlike abilities by being an actual demi-god. Pantheon was just there to be a Spartan and to be cool, his lore never really gave him any personality beyond pride.

Diana's been changed to be much more sympathetic and reasonable, rather than a genocidal maniac, Leona into a tough but compassionate defender of the innocent who was rightfully upset for Diana's crimes against her people and her religion, and Pantheon has just become THE MAN he always had the capacity to be.

I feel like the characters are better written than before, and mostly in line with how they were but with more consideration given to their actions and environments. Leona no longer feels like a fish out of water, and Diana doesn't seem as insane.

warmcorntortilla2/26/2016, 5:15:54 AM12 votes

The lore is pretty messy, and now that none of the champions are actually... human, I find myself pretty uninterested in what happens to them. Why do I care what happens to Pantheon's body when he'll just lure another one up the mountain and steal it?

Leona kinda turns around toward the end, but you are right in that her compassion is just... gone. I kept reading it and thinking "wait, what?" Leona was one of the first champions I learned to play and I loved her so much! She sounds so proud, so just, so compassionate. Like, no matter what's going on, Leona is there with her beach umbrella and warm voice-overs to remind you that the sun is shining and she will protect you, dammit. I loved her lore, I loved the idea of somebody spitting in the face of tradition to do what they knew in their heart was right, and being rewarded for sticking to that. That's pay off. You reward characters for sticking to their guns in the face of adversity, or changing when they know they are wrong. That was Leona's identity. Simple, and linear, but powerful.

They basically changed Leona in every way. Where before she stood firm in the face of what she knew was wrong (just like -- ahem-- a tank should), now she is easily converted by the Solari at first, then easily converted by the vision of Mount Targon! Before she was just, and compassionate. Now she is/was a zealot.

I think, and I hate to say this, but I think some of the problem with Leona and Diana is a well-placed desire to make stronger, more interesting, multi-dimensional female characters. However, this isn't really a problem when you have such an enormous cast of champions. There are strong women, sexy women (okay, a hell of a lot of these), badass women, ruthless women, and kind, compassionate ones as well. This is fine, and good. There is no need to make Leona harder, or make Diana softer, in an attempt to make them more multi-dimensional. This isn't a novel, it's a game. They should have strong thematics that match their voice overs.

Old Diana/Leona achieved this. Maybe not perfectly, but they were their own unique characters, with clear, strong goals and desires. Now the characters we learn about for most of the stories aren't even around anymore, but instead replaced in a zombie-esque fashion by aspects. What goals and desires they do have are not made clear, meaning I do not care if they achieve their goals (since they have none) and therefore I just do not care about them as characters.

I will say, however, that the narration team did an amazing job with the Harrowing lore event. I thought all those champions' additions were very revelatory and rich and interesting!

Iffem2/26/2016, 4:52:31 AM10 votes

Sooooooo... now that I think about it, it seems like Leona and Diana switched personalities, which feels... kinda uncomfortable...

EronVirson2/26/2016, 1:53:41 AM10 votes

Riot you expanded the world and made three iconic characters shallow husks in one fell swoop.

In the old lore, from Diana’s viewpoint, Solari were the bad guys. They were the ones that tried to snuff out the Lunari and then proceeded to sit on Mt. Targon and claim they were these noble pacifistic people. Diana was an angry Chaotic Good book nerd who was sentenced to death because she was born different. Her attempted execution and sudden gift from the moon was a key moment that really defined her character.

In the old lore, Leona was a woman born and raised in a warrior culture that rose above and refused to kill a fellow human for no good reason. She was such a Lawful Good saint that she made everyone else look sinful. The Rite of Kor and solar flare that caught the eye of the Solari was a key defining moment for her.

The great conflict that was shown in the old lore was Leona and the supposed good Solari vs the vengeful Diana and the remants of an extinct way of life. It was a conflict were it was hard to completely support one side or the other. The great question buried in that conflict was: What made the cool sunbros kill the moonbros that they had been peacefully living alongside prior?

This new lore removes all of that, there is no key defining for Leona or Diana. The attempted execution is just Diana living because she facerolled the keyboard. Leona’s new lore has no Rite of Kor, no refusal to fight, this Leona did not rise above. And the Solari killed off the Lunari just because they refuse any other religion that does not include “Praise the Sun.” The memorable moments we loved was stomped flat and with it the core of these characters change in a way that feels all too different.

I understand that these characters tales are to be interwoven into a larger narrative but why do characters that are demigods feel so underwhelming?

333lom2/26/2016, 11:36:12 AM7 votes

Agreed. Here's a reddit thread, I'll be coming back to edit this comment, I have some obligations right now. https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/47la1r/my_opinion_on_the_new_mount_targon_lore/

The thing I want to point out the most is essentially this: the characters were changed, their personalities erased, in order to fit the new story onto them. That is the biggest problem. The story overall could have been alright, but only if it used different characters!

Narasimha2/26/2016, 2:02:24 AM7 votes

Diana, the once angry and scorned woman is now the person who desires peace, but she lacks purpose and any real direction, and even her old self had that much. She is shown to be appalled by violence and the carnage she created, where before she was driven by her hatred of what had been done to her and her people. It may have been flawed, but it gave her more character. This strong girl seems to be anything but now, lost and without a true path to follow, even after discovering her beliefs were true.

Her old character also limited her. She had no real way to expand or grow out of the fanatic driven insane zealot she was characterized as. She would always be the lone Lunari waging a war for... what? Herself? Her right to worship who she wants? Now she has that, but she also has room to doubt herself, or to become more hardened. She can grow, or she can fail.

Leona, the once compassionate warrior is almost anything but, shown to be a Solari zealot and keen on burning any who challenge the light of the sun or Targon to ashes. Where is the woman who turns to her allies and says warmly “I will protect you.” as she charges into the fray? Why was she turned into a woman who seems to show no mercy or care for her foes, when the very thing that drove her before was a desire to protect those who could not protect themselves, and to abhor unnecessary or excessive violence? The sun has set on a more beloved version of the character.

She's also the same character who says "They will be sundered" and "I will break their line." She's been a defender, but she's always been an aggressive one too. She's become more of the templar archetype, a religious warrior who fights for her faith. And as the saying goes, there is no one more fervent than a convert, because they have something to prove.

Pantheon has been stripped of all his humanity, literally. He is no longer a person, but an entity. He is driven only by war and conflict. While he was before a powerful leader of his people, now he is only a paragon of an act of aggression, a celestial being wearing a human skin. We already have a character like that, and his name is Aatrox. Why was it necessary to turn Pantheon into this entity? Why toss away his humanity, and an aspect that people could understand and relate to?

Pantheon was never a leader. He was just a super amazing warrior. Awesome, but not really 'legendary'. Not even that noteworthy. Unlike Aatrox, who seems to do what he does for pleasure, Pantheon seems to be more defined by his battles. For him, fighting IS his existence now. He's essentially the God of War, the pinnacle of combat.

Warlord Dienekes2/26/2016, 5:24:06 AM7 votes

As a Pantheon main, I can tell you what I liked about the character.

Mostly it was because he was a Spartan. I really like history, a lot. In fact, I focused my life on it. Admittedly, I more focus medieval history, but whatever. Among a world of liches, monsters that snatch souls into lanterns, and mystic ninjas that don't really act like ninjas most the time, we have a Spartan warrior. And he can play on the same playing field as gods.

Now the Spartans were an amazingly interesting people, full of contradictions. In their city they were all forced into boot camp at a young age, but they also were the most high percentage of literate and mathematically taught kids in Greece. Unlike everywhere else, they were forced by the government to get educated. They viewed themselves as the defenders of the Greeks, but had some as serf-slaves. They conquered their rival Athens, yet didn't raze it to the ground like their allies wanted. There is a lot their to choose from. And while the original lore took a lot of liberties, they were still fundamentally a brutal city-state with an agoge. They were also very religious, though that religion was of the Sun rather than the Greek pantheon. While Pantheon desperately needed a re-write to give him some more to his background than "A Spartan who was better than other Spartans now he's the Spartan champion, also, he was friends with a girl" it should have been built on that framework that we had already had. There are plenty of stories to be told of the changing tides of such a city-state. Pantheon, could have more to his motivation than just killing things for Sparta, while still staying true to his basic core.

And, they almost gave that to us. Atreus was a badass. Atreus went through the horrors of the Spartan agoge system. Atreus was this normal guy who would not back down, he would not stop fighting, and he would defend his people. He was awesome. They gave him a goal we could relate to. They gave him motivation, friends, desires. They gave him a conflict with the status quo to build upon to tell a few interesting stories about.

Then Atreus died. He became a meat-sack for some god named Pantheon. Pantheon's motivation is just to fight people, again. Pantheon's personality? Not improved, only now the jokes don't make sense. Does he still have what I liked about him? Sort of. He's still kind of a Spartan. But he's no longer a badass with a little extra help from some relic weapons. Now he's just another one of those insanely powerful demigods that I was impressed with him being able to fight as a normal person in the first place. He's been given a fresh coat of paint, but he's still just empty, and not really improved. Unless, the upcoming story is the 3 heroes breaking away from these gods that have taken over their bodies, then the interesting guy known as Atreus doesn't matter. And what story is there to tell with Pantheon. He's a harbinger of some disaster, but once that disaster happens, what's he going to do?

Potato Doc2/26/2016, 7:44:15 AM5 votes

Honestly I feel like this echoed a lot of the "freljord" story, 3 competing companies, the moon vs the sun vs the loathing of the suns compassion is comparable and painfully similar to sej, ashe, and liss. While not exactly similar its like they copied it and changed it slightly

Think Avatar: the last airbender show to The last airbender movie by Shyamalan

A lot else of what I wanted to say has already been said

FirexSaber2/26/2016, 1:32:34 PM4 votes

I'm sorry, but Leona's old lore was problematic for a few reasons.

  1. Culture

The Rakkor tradition of killing half their children is stupid. Sure, it sounds badass on paper, but in practice? No warrior culture is going to cut their number of fighters in half just to look strong. There's no excusable reason for it.

  1. Identity

"Woman defies the traditions of her people."

Who am I talking about here? Is it Leona? Diana? Fiora? The theme is overused, and not at all essential to what she is, so it's good to cut down on it. Not to mention it's a tired trope to begin with. Girl's compassion causes her to defy her people's tradition is the plot of so many tawdry teen sci-fi novels.

Her in game kit and voice over also showed little of the compassion that her lore claimed. Let's look at what she has:

  1. Burning pillar of light
  2. A combo of dtabbing someone with a blade and then bashing them with her shield.
  3. A shield for not others, but herself.

Her play style is aggressive and so are her voice overs. "I will break their lines." A character should feel cohesive in their theme in game and with their lore. Take Braum for instance. He's a protector in his lore, and in his kit. I played Leona in game before reading her lore and had a hard time seeing that she really embodied it.

There's another thing that I also think is an improvement and that's the power of choice. In the old lore, Leona didn't choose to become the embodiment of the sun. She just was. I feel, in some ways, it weakened her character. Whereas in this new lore, she chose to become what she is. She chose to climb that mountain. In my opinion someone who chooses power is a lot more interesting and stronger than someone who it was just handed to.

Baron of Bread2/26/2016, 10:33:32 AM4 votes

The extent of the changes to Diana is that she is no longer focused on genocide and has a reason to want to work with those that had scorned her. She still seems entirely in control of herself (as in not influenced by the Lunari, as she calls it, inside her), she has just gained knowledge and power.

Leona has potentially changed less, she still values protecting her people and granting mercy to those that shouldn't be killed. The quote for when she doesn't kill the mountain spirit shows this: "and though everything she had been taught since birth told her to attack, Leona could not bring herself to murder someone so obviously helpless." We see it again in Pantheon's lore: "Leona – preached a different form of protection, which Atreus felt was weak and passive." We see it again in Leona's lore with the marauders when she kills them, but only because if she didn't then she would have to later: "left alive they would only regroup to kill again." She was even known as a "just, devoted and, some might say, zealous servant of the Sun," as opposed to just devouted.

Leona did become more obviously a religious zealot, but she always was something of one. She was all about being the "avatar of the sun," "sun's champion," blah blah blah. Of course now they show her actually doing the zealotry thing, but then changing. She isn't shown to be more of a zealot after being infused, she might even be accepting of Diana after it.

Oh, and Leona is also not ruled by her resident god-power: "She still had her memories and thoughts, was still master of her own flesh".

Pantheon has changed quite a bit in my opinion, as he is no longer Spartan McViolence-And-Honor. He is now a protector of the mountain since he seems to need a reason to kill. In no way is it shown that he is a heartless machine of death, but he is shown to be very good at fighting. In the new lore he has even been a character with flaws, he hasn't always been an unstoppable warrior. Sure, that part of him is probably gone, but it at least existed as opposed to the old lore. I am not even sure that it is gone completely because Pantheon's actions seem to be the same as what Atreus's would be and neither of the other people were even slightly taken over. It seems to me that all they did was add to the character.

TLDR: I think the new lore is great and disagree with most of what the OP said.

Balareon2/26/2016, 1:31:40 AM4 votes

I personally really love this new lore.

Serith Vastyne2/26/2016, 3:04:47 AM4 votes

As a Leona main and a Diana lover, I think the new lore is awesome. They're adding a ton more depth to the champions that we've known and to be honest, the changes are beneficial because rather than being good/evil archetypes, both Leona and Diana can be seen in shades of grey. Diana is more of a heroine now, but she's not straight up about vengeance anymore. She only, even UNINTENTIONALLY, killed the Solari Elders because of her shock at being pronounced a heretic and that she was possessed by the Lunar Aspect when she killed them.

Leona is way more aggressive and violent, but her status as a protector is still unchanged. She just fights more viciously to protect Mount Targon, and don't forget that she now has the Solar Aspect which possesses her similarly to Diana at times. The rage of the sun combined with her own battle furor is a terrifying thing to behold, which is essentially what happened to the raiders in her color story. Additionally, even though she hated Diana for murdering the Elders, albeit unintentionally, the Solar Aspect is telling her to reunite with Diana peacefully because they both share the same knowledge. Both of them have essentially changed for the better.

Old Pantheon was pretty similar to new Pantheon, but at least the new version of him gives us his true name and the fact he got powerspiked to be a demigod and not a third wheel between Leona and Diana who were already considered demigods in the old lore. All three of them are equally powerful and now, as the main page states, we have to wonder why THREE Aspects are on Valoran because it's already considered to be a bad sign of things to come if one already walks the earth.

My only minor gripe about the new lore honestly is the fact that the Iron Solari aren't canon. They got replaced by the Ra'Horak. :(

Whyte Lyon2/26/2016, 8:05:50 AM3 votes

I had a multitude of large paragraph's written in response to this person's ideas/opinions on the new lore update for the three featured champs but I stuffed up and lost all that I was going to say. But i guess I need to get my opinion off my chest so bad that I'm going to summarize it all here.

Maybe the new stores were still too linear for you're satisfaction and maybe a lot of other people share that opinion. But I think you should remember that this event, its not over we still have more stories to come. These stories so far are just the beginning for more, you don't know whats to come. Maybe Leona learns from this beginning event and the story is just documenting how she eventually evolves to the "prideful, yet compassionate and caring" character that you prefer Leona to be, ya know character progression. Personally I hope that's how Riot does play it out to be. Secondly your opinion on Pantheon being an emotionless shell of what was once a man. I understand the whole idea from a nerds perspective of not being able to relate to this character anymore because he's no longer like you and I. But like i said before Pantheon's story isn't finished, who's to say that he doesn't do something compassionate to make all the ladies heart sink. Look at Marvel's Hulk, his character is meant to be the embodiment of rage kinda like Pantheon. Nerds still love him for kicking ass, all while having his human side brought up from time to time. So you'll just have to wait and see before getting all flustered over him no longer being relatable. Lastly, for Diana there's not much differently I could say about her that I haven't for the others, trust me fam, Diana will get more progression from what I can gather from her story, you just gotta give Riot time. Granted sometimes we have to wait a long time.

I just wanted to say that I understand you're frustrations and opinions about the characters. You basically said that they are no longer true to their original and already strong characteristics/ key personalities. I get this frustration people have as we've all seen the wrath of nerds over not having what they believe to be faithful adaptations (Look at the rage against Jared Leto's Joker with his ridiculously over the top body tattoos). And I'd say that obviously I'm a huge nerd too because I'm commenting on someones own opinions about three characters that have vague-ish lore and backstories in a game that makes it difficult to show any of these stories and character progression's inside the game itself, that being because League is a MOBA. Moving on, I guess I would describe myself as a nerd of more creative forms of story telling and entertainment. And so in total opposition to what you've commented about I'd have to say that I see passionate people (nerds) like yourself seem to get tunnel vision when it comes to new approaches/adaptations to characters you adore. Like the new Joker's tattoos, passionate people cant accept the change simply cause they believe in all their heart that that's not how the character should progress into new adaptations. This kinda attitude makes me think sometimes "well what if average Joe nerds had control over how all fictional characters are adapted?" Well I can tell you right now there would be no such thing as progression in fiction. And I say this though its not anyone's intention to keep their beloved characters in some kind of frozen state of forever moving in one direction. That's what would really make you and any other nerd who has a problem with the changes to fictional characters really happy, though you would openly deny that. Yet you still get all flustered and riled up because you think the original way of doing it was better (Jared's tattoos compared to comic version).

I hope you understand what I'm trying to bring your attention to.

Sahn Uzal2/26/2016, 12:16:44 PM2 votes

As much as I don't want to get negative on the new lore..- People spend a lot of time and work on it, just saying it sucks seems kinda mean to me- but I do not really like it.... -_- Even with his limited quotes, Pantheon had a personality. War was basically a religion to him.

"They disgrace the art of war."

But through his loyalty to ''the art of war'' he still showed some emotions

"My spear is restless."

What I'm trying to say, Pantheon was a human. That's a part of who he is.

"My profession?! You know, now that I think of it, I've always wanted to be a baker." "Yes, a baker."

How does his joke even make sense now? He is no longer a human in the new lore... He's as human as Bard....

Speaking of which, Atreus has done some shit described as impossible for a human to do. How many of his cookies shrines must bard have thrown at Atreus' feet just to make sure ''Fate happened''? summoner 31

Solidair32/26/2016, 1:04:07 PM2 votes

I find the newer stuff to be a bit more compelling for at least Diana and Leona. Pantheon I'm kind of on the fence about. This new direction is interesting, but I'm not sure this is where I wanted him to go. I'm not sure I wanted him to be an Aspect as such, I guess.

I'm worried that the other two unannounced champs will also have no free will as Atreus has lost his. Especially if one of those is Taric, as silly as it may sound.

Splision2/26/2016, 1:25:22 PM2 votes

I really love this new lore. Twas a bit of a read, but I still found it enjoyable nonetheless.

Killer of Poros2/26/2016, 1:58:45 AM1 votes

I agree with your points on Diana and Leona but I have a different perspective of Pantheon. In its own way it's a tragedy where because we can't empathize with him it shows how far Atreus has gone. He did everything to put his morals and companions above everything and in the end he was stripped of all that made him human. While not perfect I think the lore can go in a pretty interesting take with panth. But that's just my opinion and I know a lot of people probably will disagree.

SerBlaise2/26/2016, 4:44:28 PM1 votes

I am happy with the new Diana lore. I agree she has lost her rough edge and the vengeance aspect (hurr), but to be honest it was an aspect of her personality I neither related with nor found attractive in her character. The possibility of redemption is intriguing.

I agree she has lost the original purpose and direction, but this is exactly the point and it's why I believe the story is better now. She is SEARCHING for purpose and direction, instead of just having purpose be handed to her. This means the story is still in motion; anything can happen! Will she find a way to unite the Lunari and Solari? I'm betting that we get another interactive story ala Bilgewater to answer this question.

Florn2/26/2016, 8:36:09 PM1 votes

I see the points you are tying to get at but I feel as if you have missed some of the intended interpretations in the stories.

I am on my phone right now or I would use some quotes to help emphasise these points.

Pantheon

Atreus may not actually be part of the entity that is Pantheon which is slightly unfortunate and I would have preferred a merger approach instead of the complete removal of his consciousness. However, the main trait that he gain through the story is what the entity Pantheon embodies. His belief that they should be seeking out threats to their home and destroying them instead of sitting back passively waiting (like Leona did when Atreus was attacked) is exactly what Pantheon does. Personally I feel as though it was necessary for Atreus to be removed in some senses as his emotions and connections to the people of his tribe as well as his anger with Leona could get in the way if the Pantheon performing his duty.

Leona.

Leona appears to be different in some aspects but I feel as though this is mostly due to the lack of personality she had in the previous lore. Her compassion in the past only really extended to, "this boy is my friend and I grew up with him so I see no need to kill him".

When she wants to kill Diana for spewing blasphemy you have to remember that it is exactly that. It is a member of her order speaking blasphemy and discounting the teachings that Leona lives her life by. You may think it is excessive but to her it isn't just trying to think if things in a new way it's saying that everything we stand for is wrong according to you. It is the natural human reaction to feel anger in this situation. And though Leona is a compassionate person. She was still raised in a harsh environment in a tribe that lore wise is ment to reflect the brutal aspects of ancient Spartan culture. When you are raised to fight those who oppose you wanting to kill someone for essentially saying everything you believe n is wrong is a normal reaction.

As for the second story and the scene that everyone is so angered with saying that it destroys her personality, throughout the whole story you see what is going on in her mind. There is the aspect saying destroy all nonbelievers and burn our enemies in the rays of the sun. Then to contrast it you have Leona who is much more tempered and holds the aspect back while she thinks through things logically. She knows killing the leader will send the rest running and limit casualties on her side. So she does this. Then as they are running way she weighs makes the decision based on observations throughout the rest of the story: they were warriors not travellers. They were only here to plunder meaning that letting them go will not result in them leaving. And the most likely outcome is that they will regroup and attack again likely causing more deaths of her own people. Coming to this conclusion she then allows the aspect to do its thing and roast the raiders.

Diana.

I won't comment much on Diana as I was never really a fan of her "your order wiped out all these people I never knew but am some how related to so now I must do the same to you to prove that you were wrong!" Basically living by the eye for an eye mantra that logically only results in many blind people.

Artum Tsumia3/6/2016, 5:07:06 AM1 votes

While I'll most certainly agree about disliking Pantheon's lore with this Targon event, both the Leona and Diana ones stick pretty close to the originals. There's certainly been a few adjustments to the more minor details, like the reason for the Solari taking Leona in or how exactly Diana found her truth, but the core of these characters is untouched. For example Diana has still become an "outcast, hated and reviled" She most assuredly has "fell to a dark place, filled with thoughts of revenge and hatred for those that had caused so much suffering" however, being filled with hatred and a desire for revenge doesn't mean that she can't still have a hope for peace. Particularly when that peace is still centered around people accepting her truth.

Leona finds herself in very much the same kind of situation as Diana, though Leona comes off as slightly worse. Leona's story still preserves the same core but with once again minor changes to her origin which I at least am willing to accept since she helps unify things. That right there is the subtle brilliance in this lore, we have Pantheon and Diana unified by Leona, the common thread between the two and painted as a leader figure. The tone is set darker, and we don't get to see much of the good in Leona, we do still see it shining through. We have Leona sparing the boy, we have Leona considering what she will be asked to do, and the the simple fact of this means that it is not something she would want to do. Even when the Raiders attack, she gives them not only the chance to turn back, but specifically takes into account that if fighting must happen, taking the leader out will give her and her warriors their most effective moment to strike. She's clearly not blood thirsty, they didn't dive into the fray, and mostly only the tone sets her as being particularly more brutal than before.

Mostly what I'm saying is that if you're willing to set aside some of the smaller facts, we get a much more cohesive lore for these characters over the exceedingly disjointed lore we used to have. The story is told different and is terribly dark in tone, which doesn't give the individual champions a lot of room for their personalities to show. Sadly, Pantheon has had his personality removed and he most certainly does not want to be a baker. The dark tone though is completely acceptable considering that Aurelion Sol is making his way towards Mount Targon/Runeterra and I think it's pretty clear that he isn't coming to bake cupcakes and talk window dressing.