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I think i figured out the main reason people ALWAYS despise new lore.

Skorch··31 votes·1,925 views

Because it no longer is "This character is..." A lot of characters are getting relationships with others and large backgrounds. When previously it was a short little paragraph that allowed SO much self-influence and guessing on the rest of it.

But now that Riot figured out actual lore and a story. People are upset their personal headcannons arent right. These characters that they once thought they understood every part of, based on a single paragraph and 10 to 15 lines of dialogue, they go completely elsewhere.

And thats not to say that they SHOULD keep old things in tact. If Vlad got a VGU and he wasnt a pun-master there would be problems. BUT characters need to be more than they once were.

The outrage around certain characters becoming Vastayan was way too much.

Another thing is people jump to conclusions WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY to fast. For instance, with all of these single paragraphs updates people are rioting that they arent what they want and they "completely changed the character" But riot understands that the old characters FOR SURE still need to be there. Remember when people first saw Viktor in Jayce's lore and everyone was up in arms that he was no longer a morally grey character? And pretty much the lore team said: "Just wait" and when his lore came out everyone was just perfectly fine with it?

People have way to little faith in the lore team. When FULL stories and lore come out i almost NEVER see a complaint. So why does everyone get up in arms at the littlest bit of information?

59 Comments

NiamhNyx19 votes

SONA ISNT MY HEAD CANNON BADASS SECRET AGENT FROM ANOTHER WORLD SENT TO DESTROY THE VOID??? WHAT IS THIS???? BLASPHAMY!!!!

I usually pride myself on quick wit, but that took me a full six minutes to think up. Gonna go cry in a corner now.

Dreamspitter1 votes

{quoted}

SONA ISNT MY HEAD CANNON BADASS SECRET AGENT FROM ANOTHER WORLD SENT TO DESTROY THE VOID??? WHAT IS THIS???? BLASPHAMY!!!!

I usually pride myself on quick wit, but that took me a full six minutes to think up. Gonna go cry in a corner now.

Head Canon. It's Head. Canon.

NiamhNyx2 votes

{quoted}

Head Canon. It's Head. Canon.

thats kinda the point, it was supposed to be wrong....

Quepha15 votes

No, it’s actually the fact that these characters have had an established backstory for years. It may not have been great but it’s still who they are and who you think about when you select the character. Arbitrary changes to the character feel like Riot is killing off old friends out of boredom.

Think of the Star Wars remasters. The fans don’t give a crap if it was George Lucas’s true vision to unambiguoisly have Greedo shoot first, it still isn’t their Star Wars.

WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOO3 votes

A lot of these characters actually didn’t have much of an established backstory at all.

Quepha7 votes

Then expand on what’s already there, don’t change it.

WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOO4 votes

I don’t think any of them strayed from the base of the champion arguably say Varus. Naut’s looks like it does but not really.

Quepha7 votes

Have you ever heard of Trundle, Mundo, or Orianna?

Blood Magicks11 votes

And thats not to say that they SHOULD keep old things in tact. If Vlad got a VGU and he wasnt a pun-master there would be problems. BUT characters need to be more than they once were.

Unfortunately right now he is less than what he once was. He was a clever, creative twist on a trope. Now he is a carbon copy of it.

Is filling in the gaps of the old short text without hard retconning it too much to ask for? If it's really 10-15 lines and that small then it shouldn't be hard.

EDIT: Also it's fair to say that in the new version he will have even less interaction with main characters as he will be simply too old to give a fuck about whoever is playing soldiers with the Noxus army this century.

WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOO13 votes

You’re assuming a lot here

Blood Magicks6 votes

I'm only assuming what comes with the painfully cheesy box they're stuffing his lore into. Give me one example of a Dracula iteration where he is actively involved in world politics from day to day rather than a silent, secretive observer.

And let's face it, he will have to be that because with his current power and influence level there is no reason he won't be in charge of Noxus. His only reason not to be could be lack of interest.

WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOO6 votes

Dracula never really built up a cult of worship, new Vlad seems to be going along the hedonism track kinda like the vampires in Blade. In that sense he’s remaining youthful while also involving himself heavily in Noxian affairs.

I imagine that the inside of Vlad’s mansion or whatever is kinda caligula-y which I think is a cool direction to take the character.

Blood Magicks3 votes

I do love the cult idea and

I imagine that the inside of Vlad’s mansion or whatever is kinda caligula-y which I think is a cool direction to take the character.

I completely agree here, ah, no one can party like the Noxians.

But you could have had it with the old lore too - the rockstar beloved of Noxian aristocracy whose power over life and death and ancient insights earn him a legendary status.

Dracula never really built up a cult of worship

He does have worshippers and spicy things going on in his dungeons in Stoker's work, and is revered in local villages.

That said I think the cult of personality is a wink to Vladimir Putin because that's his entire deal at the moment and again raises the question: Why isn't this guy ruling Noxus yet? He says things like "I am Lord and Master" , "This is my realm", "Kneel before Vlad." and so on.

Oh believe me I wish he would get a VGU and consistency, rather than this lazy treatment.

Chromatic Eagle11 votes

They have completely retconned character stories into being different people. Trundle and Xerath for examples. The thing with Viktor’s lore could’ve also been a behind the scenes change based on feedback. It’s not like people should stop showing concern over potential changes. It just needs to be mediated better.

WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOO6 votes

There is no indication that the panic surrounding Viktor had any effect on the lore.

Xerath imo changed for the better and became a much more convincing antagonist.

Trundle May have had a fine story before, but now he has a more cohesive and acting place.

The Soulforged5 votes

But Xerath wasn't supposed to be an antagonist necessarily.

GreenLore4 votes

Even in the old lore,he destroyed large parts of Shurima and didn't care about it(heck it even says that the shurimans feared his careless disregard for life),heck he even said that the death of his girlfriend didn't matter to him anymore.

That is actually quite the villainous description.

The Soulforged2 votes

{quoted}

Even in the old lore,he destroyed large parts of Shurima and didn't care about it(heck it even says that the shurimans feared his careless disregard for life),heck he even said that the death of his girlfriend didn't matter to him anymore.

That is actually quite the villainous description.

Eh, fair enough. I'm ok with him being villainous but I'm annoyed how they changed his motivation from lust for magic knowledge/power to freedom.

DariusDemiurge1 votes

{quoted}

Even in the old lore,he destroyed large parts of Shurima and didn't care about it(heck it even says that the shurimans feared his careless disregard for life),heck he even said that the death of his girlfriend didn't matter to him anymore.

That is actually quite the villainous description.

That wasn't villainous. He didn't actively seek out to cause problems.

He was the singularity. A man so in touch with magic that it was destroying his flesh from the power. Like a scientist trying to find a cure. He attempted to remedy his problems, fucked up, lost many things like Tabitha his girlfriend.

Did he want the events to happen that way? No. You could say he was selfish and heartless to risk such an iffy attempt for self preservation and to move on with life after the destruction he caused. But you can't call him villianous.

GreenLore1 votes

Most villains don't actively try to kill people just for the sake of it. The death of innocents is usually just a small price to gain something else.

ZT Xperimentor1 votes

Incorrect, xerath originally wasn't tied to any specific region or country; he was just a power hungry mage willing to sacrifice more than others were comfortable with. In the end he succeeded but other mages bound him from going beyond accession, hence why he's always looked like an energy being shrouded in a fragmented cage; his older voice lines even referenced this by saying he has no need for revenge, time had slain all the mages who tried to stop him. The first rework changed/updated a few lines but hadn't altered his past nearly as much the azir popularity wave.

GreenLore1 votes

He was always from Shurima. I mean come on,it says so in the very first sentence of his old lore....

In the ancient civilization of Shurima, the mage called Xerath practiced magic with undying passion

ZT Xperimentor1 votes

Indeed, however what I'm getting at is that he was rogue, didn't care about azir nor did he have to bend to him; read the rest of it and you'll see what I mean. I don't mind tying champion's together, however I despise rewriting for the sake of bandwagoning; sivir, cassiopeia, and brand were also changed with xerath just to give azir some validity in their universe, while they retconed the summoners.

GreenLore1 votes

Well becuase before Xeraths goal was pretty bland. He wanted power for the sake of power and all of his enemies were already dead thanks to the fact that they weren't immortal like him.

ZT Xperimentor1 votes

I still find it more interesting than 'he rivaled this random bird guy a bunch of ignorant people worshiped'. Then again his original kit was much more accurately gameplay and story integration before the rework, he actually felt like an artillery mage back then.

Ebonmaw Dragon10 votes

Im pretty sure that is not about the headcanon, its about removing the old canon that was already established and it literally removes old characters in order to remplace the characters with new ones that look similar to the old ones, but arent the same.

Furor Nexis10 votes

I'd like to weigh in on this discussion. To counter your point I'd like to bring up Varus.

One of the single biggest reasons that alot of people were upset and infuriated over the snippet that had been put up on PBE was because Varus' characteristics and personality had already been well established. Honor bound, legendarily skilled, father, husband. When all of that was taken away from him he swore to enact his vengeance after striking a deal with the corruption; a legendary power to destroy his enemies that slowly ate at him and taunted him all the way. Everyone who was familiar with Varus acknowledged that while his story may be a little edgy, it was the perfect cocktail for an engaging character.

The new story for him seems to indicate that Varus, the guardian of the Pit of Pallas never existed. Instead it's Varus, the Darkin Bow, and a couple of unknowns who struggle against his sadistic rampage. It's an absolute erasure at it's finest, and as much as the team heading his narrative probably put in painstaking hours for his new lore, his already well-established character will be gone then.

AirKingNeo7 votes

Or people just don't like entire characters removed instead of being rewritten to fit the story (Varus, Kayle).

WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOO3 votes

Kayle? What’s happening with her?

ULTRAF0RCE1 votes

Nothing Kayle's lore still says that she is justice to a slightly vindictive amount, the do seem to be changing Morg with the short bio that's explicitly not the whole story making Morgana seem more like a villain.

The Anagram King6 votes

There's always going to be someone who hates change.

Why Riot should or shouldn't reton nearly 50% of the characters they touch is definitely a discussion worth having, but ignoring that - change isn't good, just because it's change.

The reason I dislike most of the new lore, is because it seems generic. Characters are losing tropes and characteristics - often being haphazardly inserted into some, existing, faction. It sort of takes away from the character's identity, rather than expanding on the original identity.

I remember snorting in laughter at the Galio changes. That one was my favourite. Turning a solemn statue into a university jock superhero. That one was funny. :P

WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOO7 votes

What? You realize old Gallo was a mopey loser right? If you actually looked at new Gallo you’d realize that he has way more depth. And in fact he is much more depressing

The Anagram King7 votes

"I may be made of stone, but that doesn't mean my heart is!"

... Naw. New Galio is shallow.

Old Galio was shallow, too - but new Galio is FINISHED, shallow. Old Galio wasn't finished - and was definitely going to be updated, one day.

And he was. Into a weird, over-confident, living statue who complains about going to sleep whilst he fulfills the conditions to go to sleep.

And it's shallow. :P

WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOO5 votes

New Galio has some pretty somber lines.

Yah most of them are centered around the joy Galio feels in battle, which yah he does but you have to keep in mind that it is only when he needs to fight is he awake. And that’s only against credible magical threats. Galio sleeps for basically decades to centuries at a time. His only friend is Poppy because she’s the only one who doesn’t change. He’s a servant/tool who has transcended his original purpose and developed a conscience.

The Anagram King6 votes

That's not depth, though. It's a trope.

It's like a guy who likes eating asparagus being fed asparagus to go murder puppies, but once all the puppies are dead? No more asparagus!

"..What happens when the puppies are all gone? ... Will I never taste Asparagus again...?"

Depth is 1 part idea, 1 part execution. New Galio doesn't seem sad. He seems perfectly happy to be what he is. He's lamenting over how tragic the whole thing seems to be, sure - but only superficially. If he had a real problem with it, it would be reflected in his words and actions (through storytelling).

A character shouldn't have to tell you how they feel. The reader/viewer should be able to see it, on their own. But that's not depth. That's just character stuff. :P

THE POINT I'M TRYING TO MAKE is that Galio doesn't have any deep ambitions, or morally ambiguous desires. He doesn't fight for anything in particular (he's essentially a henchman character). He doesn't want anything more, than to stay awake and fight things.

Old Galio may have been a very lacking character, but that's because it was implied to be the 'beginning' of his story, so to speak. He identified with Poppy and broke through the chains binding him to the spot where his master died.

He essentially piggy-backed free will off've Poppy. That's not quite depth, but it's the beginning of something with potential for it. And he doesn't have even that, anymore.

WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOO4 votes

I think New Galio is going to become involved with Lux’ story going forward.

Besides he fights for Demacia, for patriotic duty because he sees himself as its protector.

I think there was a rioter a while back who said that a lot of people saw more to Galio than there really was.

ULTRAF0RCE1 votes

Given that there was a short story with the two of them it's very possible, Galio is able to be powered by Lux without her completly losing her magic but because he appreciates magic he told her to go away and share her gift with the world, he's one of the people who helped Lux be okay with being a magical human and not simply have self-internalized hatred due to being a Demacian.(who are supposed to hate magic)

Berserknurple6 votes

I think something everyone is forgetting about the "new lore" is that in 90% of cases it's just a shortened bio for the client. It's not invalidating the old lore in most cases, that will still be on the universe site. Take Sion, for example. He got a "new lore" paragraph, but it doesn't invalidate his longer first-person bio. I think Nautilus is the same. Nothing in the new lore contradicts his old bio.

ZedUsanGovos3 votes

Not necessarily. My issue with Zed isn't the way he has been described, but the timeline for which he's been set in. There's been a very specific timeline for Zed's life.

The Jhin/Kinkou incident-> Traumatized Zed, leading him down a dark path-> Fails studies and becomes super angsty-> wants to beat Shen-> enter Zed's old lore.

Old Lore: Zed unlocks shadows-> beats Shen-> exiled and creates Order of Shadows-> returns to Kinkou Temple-> Kills Master Kusho-> Slaughters students and controls temple-> Present day Kinkou and Order help fight Noxus, which is when Kayn was found.

New Lore: Zed establishes Order of Shadows DURING the Noxus-Ionia War-> doesn't have ACTUAL SHADOW POWERS-> UNLOCKS SHADOWS DURING THE FUCKING WAR AND WHILE THE ORDER EXISTS. THE WHOLE POINT OF THE ORDER WAS BECAUSE HE HAD TAUGHT HIS STUDENTS THE ART OF THE SHADOW, AND NOW HE HAS AN ORDER ABOUT SHADOWS WITHOUT SHADOWS. DURING THE FUCKING WAR THAT ORIGINALLY PRE-DATED THE ORDER. WHAT THE FUCK IS HIS CONNECTION TO JHIN NOW, OR SHEN? REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEETO PLS.

Skorch1 votes

A certain Rioter explained that Everything with jhin shen etc is still all correct. A Rioter explained the whole timeline but i dont remember where

ZedUsanGovos1 votes

Yeah. It was on my post xd

JustARivenMain2 votes

I'm just happy the "new" Lore for Riven is essentially the same, just a summary of the 4 paragraphs that used to be there. (atleast in Client)

Quepha6 votes

That’s all anyone wants: Just keep as much of the old stuff as possible. If Riot wants to write a new story, then save it for a new champion.

ULTRAF0RCE1 votes

What if characters need to have new lore because their lore has needed updating for 3 years such as Fiddlesticks or their lore is meaningless like old shaco.

Quepha1 votes

People aren't really complaining about Shaco's new lore, they're complaining about Varus.

KoKoboto2 votes

Vayne changes make her a psychopath so I don't like them.

Valor helping Quinn for no reason makes no sense, also really smacked the theory on Quinn and Talon being siblings.

New Diana, Leona, Pantheon, Taric stuff is great. I like the new Urgot and Warwick as well and Mundo.

I'm kinda worried about Volibear and Aatrox.

WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOO5 votes

You didn’t think Vayne was a psychopath before?

KoKoboto1 votes

Nope. I thought of her as a Batman that had the fighting style and visuals of Bayonetta.

Nothing in her old lore says "psychopath"...

ZapMyHeart2 votes

Maybe because the lore team should be held accountable for their shitty stories and plagiarism?

Old Karma: Beautiful, graceful, unnervingly calm Ionian leader who is a master tactician, willing to fight with her country to defend against Noxus. Where she, through the still waters of her forever tranquil mind, discovered her innate magical powers. That was further honed through Janna's teachings and flourished in the battlefield with deadly poise from her parent's fans.

New Karma: Heretic monk who went against the teachings of Ionia when the Fire Nation attacked. Where she lost her nerves and calm by killing someone through cliched "I got hangry, therefore it triggered my innate magic powers to do cool stuff and act like a hero" anime scene. Cool. Seen it a thousand times. Read it a million more. Come up with something better, Rito.

Placeholder Lore: Blatant Ionian ripoff of Avatar: The Last Airbender.

Kaolla2 votes

Riot visited the lunch table, removed the mashed potatoes, and put down a plate of cheddar broccoli

Now if you didn't know the mashed potatoes was there, or you don't LIKE mashed potatoes, the cheddar broccoli is fine. if you LIKE cheddar broccoli then you're happy Riot is visiting the table

But if you're a mashed potato fan, or you hate cheddar broccoli then you're going to be a bit miffed that Riot is tampering with your banquet

Add to that the fact that message boards are more of a collective for complaints more often than praises and it will most certainly give the impression that ANY changes will always lead to complaints (which isn't to say the complaints aren't valid, you just have to be able to read deep in order to determine whether there's truth to the dissenting opinions)

The Varus change is as close as i've seen to unanimous unhappy-about-the-change as I have ever seen on a message board. People liked mashed potatoes and just wanted some gravy on top, not for Riot to replace the dish completely

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