Could Riot release a dead character as a new champion?

Fasmodey·May 4, 2017·10 votes·1,570 views

Like Setaka? That would make sense IMO.

52 Comments

TyrekGoldenspearMay 4, 20177 votes

Shurima approves.

Also, I think we would all want Frey to become a champion.

MordepoolMay 4, 20173 votes

Probably won't. Undead and skeletons. Piss off the Chinese markets fragile sensibilities

FasmodeyMay 4, 20173 votes

You got me wrong. I'm not saying undead. Gameplay and apperance of character will be not affected.

Imagine Rengar. He dies against Kha'Zix. But in game, nothing changes. Just he is dead in lore.

Like this, character is dead but he is still like a normal character.

I mean, Setaka I imagine isn't an undead ascended.

AmazoXMay 4, 20171 votes

RENGAR DIES IN THE LORE?! WHAT.

Otarie53May 4, 20173 votes

{quoted}

RENGAR DIES IN THE LORE?! WHAT.

no he doesn't

Variks the LoyalMay 4, 20171 votes

... Rengar's not dead.

FasmodeyMay 4, 20174 votes

That was just an example...

Game girl 1May 7, 20171 votes

Reading comprehension on point [slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

GreenLoreMay 4, 20172 votes

Technically there is nothing that speaks against this,but I doubt that they'll ever do it,as it would be rather confusing if we'd have tons of champions from different timelines spread across hundreds of years.

The Last BalladMay 5, 20171 votes

would be rather confusing if we'd have tons of champions from different timelines spread across hundreds of years.

Its a bit too late for that... Bard Braum Karthus Kalista Hecarim Galio Gnar Ivern Lulu Rakan Xayah Thresh TahmKench Rammus Azir Anivia AurelionSol Aatrox Zilean

Basically half of the champs already have lore that either a) occurs long ago, b) spans 100s-1000s of years, or c) we have no point of reference for.

Chembaron YamadaMay 5, 20172 votes

The difference is: these champions still live right now. They are still part of the world, their personalities and stories are progressing.

If the champ is already dead, that means there will never be interesting interaction with other champions in the lore.

The champions you listed can still get tied to others.

GreenLoreMay 5, 20172 votes

But they are still alive in the current timeline. Sure they are much older than most other champs,but that doesn't change the fact that they live at the same moment as all the others.

Wrathof300May 4, 20172 votes

In my head canon, she returns as a void corrupted ascended looking for her chalicar while carrying out the Void's will. She would be OP AF.

FasmodeyMay 5, 20171 votes

Ascended corrupted by Void? Take my upvote.

We also need an undead ascended. I don't know how would it work though. Is Black Mist strong enough to overcome power of the sun? I think Void definitely is, but not sure on Black Mist.

DeadTranniesMay 4, 20171 votes

Nice reasoning I support

FasmodeyMay 4, 20172 votes

Basically, without death no story progresses. And as our characters are newly getting updates, their deaths are nowhere near. So, why couldn't we have new champions as dead characters of lore? It could satisfy the thirst for deaths. Also best advantage of this, there wouldn't be any upset because people would already know this champion as dead.

Setaka and her lore can develop and explain lore very well. Her lore can explain how ancient Shurima worked, how did the Great Void War happen and etc. She can be useful, exciting, tragic and satisfying more than you think.

Chembaron YamadaMay 5, 20171 votes

Yes, telling the story of Setaka can develop our picture of Shurima and other epic events in the history of Runeterra.

But to tell that story, it isn't required that she becomes a champion. ô.o They can tell these stories within a Shurima update or just release a story in Universe.

If that champion would fight along with me on the rift, that would be just wrong for me. She is confirmed to be dead, why is she fighting at the side of my Vi? It just doesn't make sense.

About the "thirst for deaths" thing you mentioned. The "thirst for deaths" can easily be satisfied with other events. For example, Urgot is getting his VGU soon. They could release him with a story when he was still human and alive, picturing the circumstances of his death. Then we have that undead abomination in the game, but you will always remember what this thing used to be and how it found an end.

FasmodeyMay 5, 20171 votes

For the same reason why Vi fights with Bard side by side? Game itself is not canon.

Game itself does not make sense. Champions don't even know each other fight in same side. Aurelion Sol can be killed by a retarded hamster. Xerath can be charmed by Ahri's charm. Brand dies to ignite. Like a lot. Game makes no sense.

Nothing is specific to Setaka's death.

Chembaron YamadaMay 5, 20171 votes

There is still a difference for me to cut someones power he has in the lore to make him balanced for gameplay or having a single champion that is unrelated to the timeline of the other champs completely. But maybe that's just me and it all comes down to taste. I would prefer not to have something like that in the game, while you clearly prefer to have it. Just time will tell which side Riot is going to take.

Besides that: Some of these champions would create some overlay in my opinion. For example Setaka. What should be her weapon? If you want to stay lore friendly, it should be the exact same weapon like Sivirs, since it was originally hers. Having 2 champions with the exact same weapon in the game would be odd.

Other candidates for such a champ for me would be Avarosa (Ashes ancestor) and Serylda (Sejuanis ancestor). The same weapon problem accures for Avarosa again though, since Ashes ice bow was originally hers if I remember correctly. Implementing such a champ the correct way while trying to stay lore friendly would be kinda a headache.

FasmodeyMay 5, 20171 votes

You made a good argue with Setaka's weapon. That's still fixable though. What if Setaka lost it and Sivir found it? So Setaka in gameplay could use her actual powers (or another secondary weapon) rather than a boomerang blade, like how Nasus is not defined by his halberd.

It was a really short thinking solution I got, I'm pretty sure Riot can handle a much better one as they are better at building story than me.

Lucky MonikerMay 4, 20171 votes

Kindred would have a shitfit

PlacentasMay 4, 20171 votes

I cant see this happening. People want to see their favorite champion's stories progress. How can a story progress if the champion is already dead?

Unless he had a huge backstory that somehow affects current champions, and maybe a bit is revealed of his backstory at a time. But even then...ya in a way it's progression of his story, but they also have to cater to the fans first and foremost since this is a business, not a for fun side project,

FasmodeyMay 4, 20171 votes

But a dead champion can have super rich backstory too. Setaka has this potential. The only difference is It has a defined end, which of course they are not going to reach immediately.

Setaka can have much more than her death.

It is better to have a dead champion from the beginning than seeing a current champion's death IMO. At least not in a near future. Dead champions can also be lovable. Darth Vader is still loved by a lot people, isn't he? He also got a progress by his past. We first have seen his death, then his actual story. Like how could Setaka have.

PlacentasMay 5, 20171 votes

Darth Vader didn't start off dead though.

I also am unaware as to who Setaka is, who is that?

I'm not saying it cant be done, I just dont think a lot of fans of this game would really go for it. But that's an opinion, not a fact.

If Riot did do this and pulled out, I wouldn't complain. I have faith in Riot in terms of character lore development at this point.

FasmodeyMay 5, 20171 votes

Setaka is the Warrior Queen of the Ascended, like how Nasus was Warrior King of the Ascended. She is a high tier Ascended which was killed by the terrors of Icathia (high likely voidborns). She has been killed near to the victory against them, just because of a retarded prophecy that said her she will rule the entire world and her future is bright like the Sun Disc. She trusted herself so much, she thought no one can stop her. She died among Nasus' arms. She can satisfy fans, I'm pretty sure.

PlacentasMay 5, 20171 votes

OOOOOH! I remember now! Isn't Sivirs weapon Setaka's old weapon? It's been awhile since I read the Shurima lore and stories.

But actually yeah, I think that could work and satisfy fans. I feel like enough people mentioned when she came out that she would be a cool champion or at least to know more about her.

FasmodeyMay 5, 20171 votes

Yes, she seems interesting and has potential IMO. Plus a female ascended, something we don't have.

TyrekGoldenspearMay 7, 20172 votes

Ah. Another Shuriman champion for my collection.

Rito pls.

Arcus DiabolusMay 4, 20171 votes

Incoming begging for Sena as a champion.

(Although as much grief Lucian gets for what happened to Sena by literally everyone, he kinda deserves to get her back...)

The Last BalladMay 5, 20171 votes

Nah, she would be linked to Thresh still.

She got hooked on him. ☜(°O°☜)

Sweetheart YuumiMay 4, 20171 votes

Wait isn't Kalista dead? I always assumed she was since... ya know... all those spears impaling her plus her apperance.

FasmodeyMay 4, 20173 votes

I'm not talking about undead, but real dead champions. No progressing after their death.

She is dead, but not dead...Complicated.

Chembaron YamadaMay 4, 20171 votes

She is dead, but not dead... That is pretty much the definition of undead, isn't it?

The Last BalladMay 5, 20173 votes

"She is dead in the lore, but that isn't stopping us from playing her" type thing. So not Karthus Kalista Hecarim type thing, but more like when Gangplank "died", but if they didn't remove him and he didn't end up surviving the explosion.

Just because a legend's story is over, does that mean the tale must also die?

Chembaron YamadaMay 5, 20171 votes

The biggest concern is the lack of progression then. All other champions are part of the world right now and able to interact with each other.

They can create interesting stories with them. They can let Graves and Twisted Fate move towards Piltover. They can let Lucian and Miss Fortune meet each other and fighting the undead side by side. All this stuff is just not possible with a champion who is already confirmed to be dead.

And that is a pretty big "but", at least for me since I really enjoy to read the lore.

FasmodeyMay 5, 20172 votes

Yes, but eventually some champions will be a defined end. I know, heartbreaking.

And with Setaka, we would only know her end, not her story. I mean she is a goddamn ascended in the end, c'mon. :P She probably has lived thousands of years. Riot can create endless stories from this amount of time if they work well. It will just progress in a different way.

You can't progress Xerath with killing him, because most of his life was passed on Tomb of the Emperors. His human life in a deep search wouldn't reflect current Xerath and his gameplay nicely either. Xerath and his progress are only possible with his existence. Death of Xerath would mean end of Xerath's story. Most of champions are like this. But Setaka is different for the reasons above. I hope you understand me.

Chembaron YamadaMay 5, 20172 votes

Yes, she can have her own stories because we actually don't know how she lived. But I mean something else.

All the champions we have exist on the same time line right now. The suggestion is a champion who doesn't exist in there.

That means the number of champion interaction is extremely limited. She would just be able to interact with champions in her story who already existed while she was still alive. That is pretty limiting from a story telling perspective.

It is possible, sure, I don't deny that. But from the point of view of a character designer, it isn't desirable in my opinion. I think it would be better to release stories about Setaka, telling her legend. But not introduce her as a champion. In the end, it would even feel strange to see a champion in the rift we all know she is actually dead in the lore, so it is not possible for her to meet champions like Warwick, Garen and so on on the battlefield...

Just my opinion, though.

FasmodeyMay 5, 20171 votes

Yes but already most of champions don't know each other. Jhin doesn't know Vayne. Vayne doesn't know Graves. Graves doesn't know Zed. Zed doesn't know Nasus.

Setaka can have more interaction than any champion if Riot wants.

She may have possibilities to have interactions with Brand, Nasus, Renekton, Rammus, Rek'Sai, Malzahar, Kassadin, Aurelion Sol, Bard etc.

Problems you list are fixable things If you ask me.

Chembaron YamadaMay 5, 20171 votes

Yes, most champs don't know each other right now. That is still possible to be changed, though. There was a time Miss Fortune and Lucian didn't know each other. But we got a story where they meet.

Stuff like that is simply not possible with Setaka. You can connect every champ with each other in that universe, you just have to tell the story the right way. Like I said, MF and Lucian are an example of this.

The pool of champions Setaka would be able to connect with in a story is pretty limited. Besides, we are not really sure if many of the champs you listed existed back in her time. Rek'Sai, Malzahar, Kassadin.... these champs are not confirmed for me to be that old.

And I said that it is possible. But I doubt it is really worth the effort. I still stand to my point that they should release stories about her, but not introduce her as a champ.

Seeing a champion who is no longer supposed to exist on the rift would still be strange in my opinion.

PlacentasMay 5, 20171 votes

No, plenty of in game character interactions are not based on "reality". Galio will most likely never meet Malphite but he has an interaction with him. Aurelion will never meet the majority of the champions but has plenty of things to say about them.

If Setaka was used she would have quotes for Shuriman champs. She could praise Sivir as being a strong female Shuriman warrior, comment on the other Ascended, give a bit of insight on Rammus.

Chembaron YamadaMay 6, 20171 votes

I was not talking about the interactions and quotes in the game. I was speaking from a lore point of view.

The way the lore is created right now, there are plenty of champions who didn't meet each other. But that can change in the future. Some time ago, there was no relation between Miss Fortune and Lucian. Then the harrowing event happened and we got a story in which they meet each other and fight against the undead together.

That kind of stuff is limited for the suggested dead character. As long as they aren't resurrecting Setaka (which would be the opposite of what OP wants, he wants her to stay dead, not being another undead champion), she will be just able to interact with champions in her lore who already existed back in her time. That's what I mean, it is limiting from a narrators point of view.

Still possible, but I wouldn't create such a scenario. Stories about Setaka? Sure, that would be great. But it doesn't require her to become a champion. We got alot of stories with characters who will never become champions in the actual game.

PlacentasMay 6, 20171 votes

Okay I misunderstood then.

I also understand where you're coming from, my previous comments on this page were pretty hesitant about being on board with this idea.

However, I think Riot could potentially pull it off, but should not use it as a future model for future champs.

Like at most 3-4 previously dead champs and ideally not released within the same season.

I think the Setaka thing is more of an example than anything else. I would prefer a new champ who hasnt been mentioned before tbh

FasmodeyMay 6, 20171 votes

Limited, yes. But If it wasn't even limited, other way is stupid and a really ametour way to write story.

Not all champions are going to meet with all other champions. Some will have more interactions than average, some will less. Some will have almost none (Bard). Some will be interaction king (Ryze).

Not all champions should have similar ways on writing.

Setaka's possible interactions are more than enough IMO. In the end, there are almost none that has more than 10 interactions (I'm not even sure if there is).

Chembaron YamadaMay 6, 20171 votes

I mentioned several times that it is possible to pull. But I would prefer if they avoid it. That's just my personal opinion though and all I can do is hope that Riot shares it.

Calling it "stupid and a really amateur way to write story" is pretty harsh.

FasmodeyMay 6, 20171 votes

It is though. Because even Riot agrees on it. That's why they have removed the League and Summoners (summoners we know). Absolute champion interaction is ametour and makes Runeterra feel small. Runeterra is a huge world according to writers, so It is unlikely Taliyah is going to meet with Ahri.

Then why would Setaka need to know Xin Zhao? Why is not having the possibility with meeting him a problem in the first place?

It may look different, but It is something unique IMO, which something Riot searches for.

Chembaron YamadaMay 6, 20171 votes

There is no point in arguing anymore. I said what I have to to the topic and we clearly have different points of view.

In the end, we will see what comes along. I was just using my right to voice that this decision would hurt my game experience.

FasmodeyMay 6, 20171 votes

Sorry If I offended you. Let's end it here.

Darius StradaMay 6, 20171 votes

Senna, Ruined King, Ezreal's Father(?)

Game girl 1May 7, 20171 votes

Yes I've also always wondered if champions can DIE in the lore. I think they should be allowed to, otherwise every lore event will feel like there are no stakes involved, because nobody can actually die.

ModKnightsKemplarMay 7, 20171 votes

I really would rather they didn't. Since Galio's rework, I've been hopeful about them re-introducing summoners and trying to actually make sense of the gameplay within the story. Galio alludes to it in his VO.

I think what makes the champions in League interesting is that we are observing them during a timeline in which they experience active conflict. The snapshot of the characters that exist in the game are still developing. They are mid-arc for their character. Having a dead character undermines that premise in a way that could only be damaging to the lore. Just my two cents.