We need a villain celestial being

Fasmodey·May 14, 2016·59 votes·9,224 views

Pantheon is not villain, even he is not a totally good guy, he isn't that evil either. He commanded Aurelion Sol to close huge void rift which is a good thing imo. Even without it, even if he is super evil inside, he is not that powerful and can't be a huge problem. He can't be a cosmic threat.

Bard is cosmic protector. Aurelion Sol is cosmic creator.

What about a cosmic destroyer?

Both are in neutral - good way. Both are huge anchors for universe. And we know Aurelion Sol fought against a lot celestial beings and in the few of them must be in the same level with Aurelion Sol. I'm pretty sure there are entities he was glad to fight with them. Not all celestial beings can be in neutral - good way. There must be always a dark side.

Someone like this, may be?

http://40.media.tumblr.com/8c2bccfd00c0ece103dd68b442ce2aec/tumblr_nrr0n7EyAO1tjrwu3o3_r1_1280.jpg

103 Comments

SharjoMay 14, 201616 votes

Well it depends on what forces and powers those other celestial entities embody. Thus far they've been very much about order, creation and protection. I feel like that if you wanted a villainous side to the celestial critters you'd want something like an abyssal entity; something from the darkness of the universe that balances out the creation-centric forces seen by Aurelion Sol, Bard and Soraka. Anti-matter, dark matter, dark energy, that kinda stuff. Imagine a scenario where you have Aurelion Sol and he creates stars in such a way that it threatens to overheat the universe if it goes unchecked. Enter a dark energy champion who uses that power to keep galaxies apart so that the universe doesn't burn up.

The thing to remember is that celestial beings are born from the very fires of creation itself, and responsible (seemingly) for the upkeep and continued survival of the universe. An evil celestial being doesn't make a whole lot of sense unless they're fallen in some regard, kinda like how Sargeras is in World of Warcraft. The Void is the all consuming thing that threatens all of existence, so even a dark celestial would probably join their fellow star brethren to exterminate the Voidborn.

On the celestial angle though I kinda want a planet forging champion. Some kind of entity that goes around creating planets and experimenting with life or something.

FasmodeyMay 14, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Well it depends on what forces and powers those other celestial entities embody. Thus far they've been very much about order, creation and protection. I feel like that if you wanted a villainous side to the celestial critters you'd want something like an abyssal entity; something from the darkness of the universe that balances out the creation-centric forces seen by Aurelion Sol, Bard and Soraka. Anti-matter, dark matter, dark energy, that kinda stuff. Imagine a scenario where you have Aurelion Sol and he creates stars in such a way that it threatens to overheat the universe if it goes unchecked. Enter a dark energy champion who uses that power to keep galaxies apart so that the universe doesn't burn up.

The thing to remember is that celestial beings are born from the very fires of creation itself, and responsible (seemingly) for the upkeep and continued survival of the universe. An evil celestial being doesn't make a whole lot of sense unless they're fallen in some regard, kinda like how Sargeras is in World of Warcraft. The Void is the all consuming thing that threatens all of existence, so even a dark celestial would probably join their fellow star brethren to exterminate the Voidborn.

On the celestial angle though I kinda want a planet forging champion. Some kind of entity that goes around creating planets and experimenting with life or something.

Destruction can be the purpose of a celestial entity. It can be its duty. Its duty may cause life and open a good door for the universe but inside, he doesn't do that for that purpose. He seeks for destruction but with this he also brings life.

For example, Life exists because of destruction. Supernovas are the reason of life, Big Bang is the reason of universe. Everything is in a balance. Destruction with balance causes good results eventually, destruction with chaos brings only death and well, destruction.

In other say, he is evil but his results bring good things. After then, if he wants to destroy this results, Bard is there, he protects them.

So, Bard and Aurelion Sol know its place in the universe and doesn't stop it until it causes bad things without any pros. Like if he wants to destroy Runeterra '' hey there bitch, Bard and Aurelion Sol here. ''

SharjoMay 14, 20161 votes

I feel like destruction is Kindred's territory. All things move towards decay and entropy and Kindred kinda represents that. If celestial beings are creators and forgers then Kindred is the destroyer. Their existence is the destruction and decay of all things. They are death. Kindred is effectively the end of everything because eventually, when everything else is gone, only Kindred will remain and will then possibly destroy themselves.

I feel like your destructor already exists in the grim reaper of the League universe, considering we already know Kindred's rules apply to beings of a scale and magnitude such as Aurelion Sol.

FasmodeyMay 14, 20162 votes

{quoted}

I feel like destruction is Kindred's territory. All things move towards decay and entropy and Kindred kinda represents that. If celestial beings are creators and forgers then Kindred is the destroyer. Their existence is the destruction and decay of all things. They are death.

Death is not destruction though. They're pretty different. Also they're not celestial being and only related with Runeterra.

SharjoMay 14, 20164 votes

...death is the destruction of things. All things die, even stars. Also It's already been stated that Kindred is a universal concept and that beings like Bard and Aurelion Sol will meet them. In fact I'll find FauxShizzle's posts about it hang on.

Edit: Found it!

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/cfEdVAJd-welcome-to-the-aurelion-sol-qa?comment=000b0000

{quoted}

Good question! Both Bard and Aurelion Sol are cosmic entities. While they may not have any familial ties (in the terrestrial/traditional sense), they certainly are aware of each other. I can't say which is more powerful at the moment because Bard is so mysterious, plus it's like comparing apples to bags of air.

In regards to Kindred, they represent death. Even celestial beings must end in some way at some point. I wonder what Kindred would look like to an entity like Bard or Aurelion Sol.

HeresyUntoFedexMay 15, 20161 votes

{quoted}

...death is the destruction of things. All things die, even stars. Also It's already been stated that Kindred is a universal concept and that beings like Bard and Aurelion Sol will meet them. In fact I'll find FauxShizzle's posts about it hang on.

Edit: Found it!

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/cfEdVAJd-welcome-to-the-aurelion-sol-qa?comment=000b0000

You have it wrong friend, death is the end of a person or organism, while destruction is just making something cease to exist. In a way, death is a small part of destruction, not the other way around.

-Only things that were once alive may die, a star can not unless it is possessed by some magical lifeforce, but it will eventually be destroyed, either through natural or unatural means. Kindred would not visit the star before it is obliterated because there is nothing to visit, no mind or being to provide a choice to.

-Bard and Sol might be WAYYY more fundamental to existence than a rock, a star, even space itself, but they are beings, and thus when they meet their end it is the death of someone and not the destruction of _something _.

Now, if there needed to be a dark Celestial being that embodies Destruction to balance out the beings creating stars and planets, it would most definitely not be Kindred. Planets being erased and galaxies vanishing don't necessary have anything to do with death, there could be no lives ended in either case, but even if there were it wouldn't be this being's problem. Kindred will have to deal with the individual lives ended, Destruction will just move on to the next star that needs crushing because Sol made one too many.

Ebonmaw DragonMay 15, 20163 votes

{quoted}

You have it wrong friend, death is the end of a person or organism, while destruction is just making something cease to exist. In a way, death is a small part of destruction, not the other way around.

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/8/81/Kindred.start04.ogg/revision/latest?cb=20150919210441

http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/5/58/Kindred.move25.ogg/revision/latest?cb=20150916183211

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/e/e6/Kindred.markKill11.ogg/revision/latest?cb=20150916182920

Notice that Lamb says "All Things"... not "All the living beings" or something similar. So, its possible that Kindred its the representation of "Death" as an ending of something, not only death of a living being.

HeresyUntoFedexMay 15, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ebonmaw Dragon,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=Uxu9KEGQ,comment-id=0000000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2016-05-15T04:31:21.223+0000)

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/8/81/Kindred.start04.ogg/revision/latest?cb=20150919210441

http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/5/58/Kindred.move25.ogg/revision/latest?cb=20150916183211

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/e/e6/Kindred.markKill11.ogg/revision/latest?cb=20150916182920

Notice that Lamb says "All Things"... not "All the living beings" or something similar. So, its possible that Kindred its the representation of "Death" as an ending of something, not only death of a living being.

I suppose it's possible, but it is most likely Lamb just being poetic about how everyone, from a lowly peasant to magical space messiah, will have to face the Kindred one day. I mean, their whole visual design and lore resolve around giving someone a choice between facing death with dignity or ending your life with one last chase, and iirc neither of them ever specifically mentions bringing the end of anything that wasn't alive in the first place. And honestly, how the hell is a rock(plz dont kill me Malphite ) supposed to be offered the ol' arrow or chase anyway?

A Superb VillainMay 14, 20163 votes

{quoted}

The thing to remember is that celestial beings are born from the very fires of creation itself, and responsible (seemingly) for the upkeep and continued survival of the universe. An evil celestial being doesn't make a whole lot of sense unless they're fallen in some regard, kinda like how Sargeras is in World of Warcraft. The Void is the all consuming thing that threatens all of existence, so even a dark celestial would probably join their fellow star brethren to exterminate the Voidborn.

Unless . . . the destruction in question does not lead to creation anew. Something like, say, entropy? The point at which temperature equilibrium prevents work from occurring, thus reality can no longer sustain itself.

Now who once had a passive called "Equilibrium"? Who corrupts the cosmic forces of the universe?

Hmmmmmmmmmmm . . .

Veigar

SharjoMay 14, 20165 votes

Aye but things go towards equilibrium and entropy naturally without intervention; it kinda falls in to the domain of kindred as the end result of all things in existence, at least as far as I can see.

I'm inclined to believe that in the new lore Veigar will call upon specific celestials power that are of a darker nature as opposed to corrupting celestial forces. I don't meant to look down on Veigar but that lore of his is fairly old and I'm not so confident in putting strong weight in to the specifics.

A Superb VillainMay 14, 20166 votes

{quoted}

I don't meant to look down on Veigar but that lore of his is fairly old and I'm not so confident in putting strong weight in to the specifics.

That was a low blow, Sharjo.

SharjoMay 14, 20166 votes

Hey you may be a Superb Villain but I can have my own insidious streak!

[slayer-jinx-wink]

ViashinoWizardMay 14, 20164 votes

An embodiment of Entropy, perhaps? A walking incarnation of The Inevitable Heat Death of the Universe.

Monsta MooMay 15, 20163 votes

The void?

Ebonmaw DragonMay 14, 20162 votes

Veigar Veigar

Villain? Yes Evil? Yes Has corrupted celestial powers? Yes Black holes? Yes Destroy things? Yes Is a being? Yes A celestial one? No

7/8 close enough.

Lajinn5May 15, 20165 votes

I guess you could say that he falls a bit short of the goal

kJsMay 15, 20162 votes

This calls for a void born celestial destroyer.

SevixysMay 15, 20162 votes

Holy shit, pretty nice one.

How about an idea of literally the Void as an entity? Like Chaos and Cosmos - Cosmos/Order being AurelionSol .

Like Nyx or Tartaros(Probably Nyx) in ancient Greek myths?

Not necessarily evil but not necessarily benevolent. Aurelion Sol as the creator, 'Nyx/Void' as the destroyer.

Everything must end

The Last BalladMay 17, 20161 votes

Like the laughing menace in Sol's color text?

SevixysMay 18, 20161 votes

Probably. I'm afraid I must read it (Asol's lore) through once more. :D

DatalessMay 14, 20161 votes

Lissandra "The watchers will return"

FasmodeyMay 14, 20161 votes

{quoted}

"The watchers will return"

Watchers are no where close to cosmic threat.

DatalessMay 14, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Watchers are no where close to cosmic threat.

They are a race of something that came from the stars, or are you referring to a singular individual a la Galactus?

FasmodeyMay 14, 20161 votes

{quoted}

They are a race of something that came from the stars, or are you referring to a singular individual a la Galactus?

Watchers are the creators of Iceborns. They're not celestial being. They're high chancely Runeterran. You're incorrect. Teemo

DatalessMay 15, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Watchers are the creators of Iceborns. They're not celestial being. They're high chancely Runeterran. You're incorrect.

I am not incorrect, the "Faceless Watchers" are one of the constellations mentioned in Bards release website, hence they are a race from the stars. They might not be celestial beings but my point stands.

FasmodeyMay 15, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I am not incorrect, the "Faceless Watchers" are one of the constellations mentioned in Bards release website, hence they are a race from the stars. They might not be celestial beings but my point stands.

This teaser included Fall of Shurima and Blessed Isles too. This teaser was about catastrophes and big events. Watchers were a big threat for Runeterra, that's why teaser included them, not because they're celestial related.

GreenLoreMay 14, 20161 votes

Well the question would be how to introduce such a character without him/her wrecking all of runeterra.

I mean if it was a creature of Aurelions caliber,then I'd wonder why said champ wouldn't just blow up the planet?

Sol doesn't do it because there is simply no gain for him and he hopes to find the key to his freedom there,so I'd say they shouldn't repeat that motivation.

FasmodeyMay 14, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Well the question would be how to introduce such a character without him/her wrecking all of runeterra.

I mean if it was a creature of Aurelions caliber,then I'd wonder why said champ wouldn't just blow up the planet?

Sol doesn't do it because there is simply no gain for him and he hopes to find the key to his freedom there,so I'd say they shouldn't repeat that motivation.

All vastly powerful entities that can lose themselves in a tantrum or totally destructive have limits. Xerath has sarcophagus, Aurelion Sol has Targon Magic, I'm sure this champ would be limited too.

GreenLoreMay 15, 20162 votes

Yeah he likely needs to be limited in some way.

The question is just how to do it without making him less menacing or in a different way than Aurelion or Xerath.

I mean if he also had a magic item slapped on him to keep him back then it'd seem repetetive.

So maybe something like a celestial who was crippled in a battle or one that enters the world in a weakened state before reaching his/her full power,or one who simply doesn't want to destroy planets,but is a really big threat on another scale.

DarkRitualMay 14, 20161 votes

Could Aatrox fit? He's not exactly "good" or "bad" in his lore (which basically tells nothing about him anyhow). Maybe the Daarkin are evil celestial beings?

FloRaider42May 14, 20161 votes

Overall it seems somewhat balanced as it seems we have: A Creator AurelionSol - Protector Bard - Destroyer KogMaw 's daddy

Alternatively we also include other champions: AurelionSol - Stars (creation of sources of light and energy) Veigar - Gravity (manipulation of Black Holes) Bard - Balance (trying to balance the whole mess by intervening in critical moments) Kindred - Death (I think Kindred is leaning more towards the cycle of death and life as compared to the Void) The item 3512 (Voidborn) - Entropy (since they just consume without giving anything back)

Missing contenders would be matter Malphite or lifeforce manipulator Soraka who created sentient life and habitable planets for Sols stars to shine on.

SevixysMay 18, 20161 votes

Balance (trying to balance the whole mess by intervening in critical moments)

Lol bard is literally riot

Darius StradaMay 15, 20161 votes

I don't know if they are villains, but Aurelion Sol supposedly has two sisters: one who controlls anti-matter and another who controlls gravity, while Aurelion controlls stars. It'd be cool to see his sisters but I think they scrapped that idea

EmbertineMay 15, 20161 votes

He has sisters?

Could you link where you got this from so I can read it? I would very much appreciate it!

Darius StradaMay 15, 20161 votes

{quoted}

He has sisters?

Could you link where you got this from so I can read it? I would very much appreciate it!

Sorry, I'm not being able to find that post again. It should probably be in Aurelion Sol Q&A since I can't find it in LoL Wiki

DecritMay 15, 20161 votes

Neh.

We need it for the lore, but not as a champion. It would be like having Nagakabouros as playable charater. While the many champions can have vastly different power levels they all share some common denominator - that they are all somehow more agents than entities. Introducing a champion that is such a powerful entity to influence a big part of Runeterra and many of their champions creates a lack of balance in what the champions themselves represent - they all have their own indipendence, despite some ties.

For example Taric is demacian but pledges no alliance to jarvan, or Gangplank was the commander of Bilgewater before he was dethroned becoming a character of far less influence. There are some that are more subdued to other character ( like garen and jarvan ) but probably that is something they do not want to repeat, if not in few cases.

Also because what you do describe looks like wathever reigns the Void itself.

FasmodeyMay 15, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Neh.

We need it for the lore, but not as a champion. It would be like having Nagakabouros as playable charater. While the many champions can have vastly different power levels they all share some common denominator - that they are all somehow more agents than entities. Introducing a champion that is such a powerful entity to influence a big part of Runeterra and many of their champions creates a lack of balance in what the champions themselves represent - they all have their own indipendence, despite some ties.

For example Taric is demacian but pledges no alliance to jarvan, or Gangplank was the commander of Bilgewater before he was dethroned becoming a character of far less influence. There are some that are more subdued to other character ( like garen and jarvan ) but probably that is something they do not want to repeat, if not in few cases.

Also because what you do describe looks like wathever reigns the Void itself.

Aurelion Sol, Bard and Xerath are utterly powerful entities, what does prevent them to be a champion in league? Champion powers have no meaning in gameplay.

Aurelion Sol is also super powerful, Cosmic Destroyer would probably in the same level with them. They would be equal.

DecritMay 15, 20161 votes

Aurelion Sol is powerful, but godlike? He is nothing but a builder of stars, like a man builds an house. Powerful indeed, but compared to a "cosmic destroyer"?

Also Xerath is very powerful, but that power retorces on himself - so yeah not sure how much a good thing it is for him. And bard is a caretaker, which translates on being the janitor of the universe. A very powerful janitor, but still a janitor.

But i am not arguing power, since all of these are probably much more powerful than Teemo aniway. I am talking about the lore. They are agents, they have plans and they act against impossible odds sometimes. If they represent anyone, they represent very few. The only other cases where a champion is mostly a representant are Swain and Jarvan, and they are far from godhood aniway meaning that they have a pretty much restricted influence. Plus i think that they will receive significant changes to the lore aniway.

Think about it, how would it be to be the "King of the Void" itself against a Cho'Gath? Like Illaoi against Nagakabouros, somehow.

EDIT: about aurelion ok he can destroy a very big zone, i forgot that part on the panth lore. But that it' s his fullest power, which is a lot, but again compared to a destroyer of the universe?

FasmodeyMay 15, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Aurelion Sol is powerful, but godlike? He is nothing but a builder of stars, like a man builds an house. Powerful indeed, but compared to a "cosmic destroyer"?

Also Xerath is very powerful, but that power retorces on himself - so yeah not sure how much a good thing it is for him. And bard is a caretaker, which translates on being the janitor of the universe. A very powerful janitor, but still a janitor.

But i am not arguing power, since all of these are probably much more powerful than Teemo aniway. I am talking about the lore. They are agents, they have plans and they act against impossible odds sometimes. If they represent anyone, they represent very few. The only other cases where a champion is mostly a representant are Swain and Jarvan, and they are far from godhood aniway meaning that they have a pretty much restricted influence. Plus i think that they will receive significant changes to the lore aniway.

Think about it, how would it be to be the "King of the Void" itself against a Cho'Gath? Like Illaoi against Nagakabouros, somehow.

EDIT: about aurelion ok he can destroy a very big zone, i forgot that part on the panth lore. But that it' s his fullest power, which is a lot, but again compared to a destroyer of the universe?

No, Aurelion Sol said it was a really small part of his full power, he literally said '' I don't wanna destroy this fragile planet '' He can destroy Runeterra if he desires. He would see Bard in front of himself tho.

Even I can't underestimate the power of Aurelion Sol while I would like to see Xerath as the most powerful (not sure about his Unbound Form tho), but he isn't. Without doubt Aurelion Sol is the most powerful entity in lore we ever seen. I'm waiting for another entity that is equal to him.

Edit: I found it

The base elements in the atmosphere rally to my cause, accreting into a plasmic anomaly. The swelling stardust detonates at my unspoken command. The result is a dwarf replica of one of my majestic glories burning in the depths of space. After all, I can’t fling a full-fledged star at this fragile world.

DecritMay 15, 20161 votes

iiii did not say he was not powerful. I just said he is not a god of destruction that can swell worlds as if they were cookies.

also... in all honesty, while i do think that aurelion given time and resources is more than able to create a star capable to crash on a world like runeterra i think that the description is... with very high personal standards, in a certain sense.

Probably that would be much harder to accomplish than he likes to admit, like it would take time and recources for him to actually create a star good enough to destroy runeterra, but he just doe snot give a shit about that because he thinks he is too much cool and powerful to not do that ezymode :D i am not sure about this but i am driven to because that sounds so much like him! He has an ego to feed!

But yeah, i agree that Aurelion is the most powerful character in the lore so far, since we can't grasp how much and if Nagakabouros has actually some kind of tangible power as well as others.

TheKillSecureMay 15, 20161 votes

what about Aatrox Aatrox

SevixysMay 18, 20161 votes

He is not a destroyer, he is the God of war.

UltîmaMay 15, 20161 votes

Fiddlesticks Nocturne Morgana ?

INoble KnightIMay 15, 20161 votes

Fiddlesticks is evil but he was a Summoner that used forbidden magic that turned him into FIddles. Nocturne is from peoples dreams and the League had no idea where he comes from other than not in this reality. Morganna isn't evil she just doesn't agree with Kayle's version of what's right, literally a difference of opinion (last I checked at least).

UltîmaMay 15, 20161 votes

Except all of these champion's lore has yet to be rewritten to accommodate the retcon. Fiddlesticks is a Harbinger of Doom, Nocturne a murderous wraith, and Morgana a fallen angel. All three being very suited to being of a celestial/abyssal/demonic nature. I mean I don't think this means they're necessarily evil, the way I see Fiddlesticks and Nocturne specifically they are more akin to a manifestation of primordial forces of Runaterra (Horror, Destruction) than plotting a specific agenda. Likewise if we use biblical analogies, Lucifer was banished from heaven (like Morgana) because he didn't want to worship man like God intended - that didn't make him an actively evil figure - it was only after thousands of years of misinterpretation that he became evil personified as we know him today in modern literature. I'd recon Morgana falls into a similar category.

INoble KnightIMay 16, 20161 votes

Yeah Morganna's version of what's right is different than Kayle's so Kayle banished her. Literally a difference of opinion.

CoffeeDaveMay 15, 20161 votes

http://img11.deviantart.net/4b18/i/2011/337/8/5/who_will_stop_galactus__by_shangraf_srh-d4i37rv.png

got your cosmic destoryer here.

Rand0mH3r0XMay 16, 20161 votes

Isn't that Aatrox, the Darkin Blade? He appears out of nowhere with a lust for blood and war during conflicts. He exacerbates conflicts making the toll higher than they should've been for both sides.

SevixysMay 18, 20161 votes

Aatrox is literally the God of war.

War is art for him, not destruction. He loves honorable deaths and turns of battle and causes those. (like the Protectorate vs Magelords conflict where Protectorate actually won the fight even though enormously outnumbered. Or the freljordian battle where tryndamere saw his tribe slaughtered, aatrox made him his grestest masterpiece and trynda single-handedly butchered the whole attacking horde.)

Thus demacians - Protectorate's descendants - view aatrox as a hero - as pictured in his justicar skin. He is not a destroyer. He is war.

Sincerely ~Aatrox main

Rand0mH3r0XMay 18, 20161 votes

But bloodlust doesn't make him good. He is out to create the most amount of casualties possible, not save people. It just happens that he's aligned himself with whomever he deemed would be stronger. Demacia isn't a place of good, it's a place of order. The freijord was a place of chaos.

Perhaps, even, he seeks to separate Runeterra and keep one area from conquering the other, becoming unified. Whatever form he takes, his moral stance depends on the situation. I view him as neutral, but he definitely has a quality to him that makes him beyond tangible.