How do I know this cockroach is female?

Kingsgrave·Nov 27, 2014·9 votes·2,359 views

And how do I know what her motivations are?

Riot pls

Rek'Sai has a cool voice that reminds me of Aliens

32 Comments

Kobila2000Nov 27, 201410 votes

The same way you know she's from Void. You read it.
It's a huge beast on top of the foodchain. I'd say its intellect is akin to that of a shark - primitive and brutal. You can deduce its motivations from that.

HelmightNov 27, 20147 votes

The same way you know she's from Void. You read it.

There's more to knowing that someone's from the Void than just reading it. The Void has a very characteristic visual style that's present in all of its champions: purple, glowy energy, insectile appearances, a desire to consume and conquer, etc. You don't have to read LoL's lore to know that Kassadin, Malzahar and Vel'Koz are all from the same place. Meanwhile, gender is a bit harder to comprehend when dealing with otherworldy monsters, since who's to say they even follow our binary gender models? Voices can help with that.

2. It's a huge beast on top of the foodchain. I'd say it's intellect is akin to that of a shark - primitive and brutal. You can deduce its motivations from that.

Every other Voidborn has had clearly defined motivations that are established from their lore and not from their physical appearances. Vel'Koz wants to study humanity. Cho'Gath is trying to grow himself and corrupt the League from the inside. Kha'Zix wishes to evolve and become the ultimate predator. None of that is immediately apparent just through their physical appearance. Being able to hear their thoughts is critical for understanding why the Voidborn are here and what they individually want to do.

Remember kids, the Voidborn aren't simple monsters.

Kobila2000Nov 27, 20143 votes

The point was in my second sentence. How do I know that Rene is Nasus' brother? How do I know Diana and Leona are enemies? You read it. Her voice is completely non-human. Like her body, it'd be strange to expect it to show what gender she is.
I believe the "motivations" are a relic from the time LoL had an awkwardly thought-out Institute of War, forcing writers to think of really bad motivations for champions who in reality wouldn't have them simply because it doesn't fit their story or personality (Nautilus, Syndra, Morde and Hecarim come to mind). The voidborn may not all be simple monsters, but that doesn't mean all of them are fully rational either.

KingsgraveNov 27, 20141 votes

The point was in my second sentence. How do I know that Rene is Nasus' brother? How do I know Diana and Leona are enemies? You read it. Her voice is completely non-human. Like her body, it'd be strange to expect it to show what gender she is.

I believe the "motivations" are a relic from the time LoL had an awkwardly thought-out Institute of War, forcing writers to think of really bad motivations for champions who in reality wouldn't have them simply because it doesn't fit their story or personality (Nautilus, Syndra, Morde and Hecarim come to mind). The voidborn may not all be simple monsters, but that doesn't mean all of them are fully rational either.

If cho and kog were designed today they'd just make noises instead of talking

Kobila2000Nov 27, 20141 votes

They wouldn't. People would get sick of worldless champions fast. This works with her because it's a one-time thing, something that defines her. Like Io from Dota.

oxygen banditNov 27, 20141 votes

what about phoenix

Kobila2000Nov 27, 20141 votes

Well, okay, that too.

oxygen banditNov 27, 20141 votes

Phoenix, Icarus. Fire bird. Just roars.

HelmightNov 27, 20144 votes

The point was in my second sentence. How do I know that Rene is Nasus' brother? How do I know Diana and Leona are enemies? You read it. Her voice is completely non-human. Like her body, it'd be strange to expect it to show what gender she is.

But for some reason, whenever people hear Cho'Gath and Vel'Koz's voices, they immediately assume they're male.

Nasus also specifically calls Renekton "brother" in a taunt, while Renekton mentions Nasus by name in his VO. So... there's that.

I believe the "motivations" are a relic from the time LoL had an awkwardly thought-out Institute of War, forcing writers to think of really bad motivations for champions who in reality wouldn't have them simply because it doesn't fit their story or personality (Nautilus, Syndra, Morde and Hecarim come to mind). The voidborn may not all be simple monsters, but that doesn't mean all of them are fully rational either.

By "motivation" I'm not referring to what made them join the League of Legends. I'm referring to what the character wants to do and how they intend to go about it. Nautilus's motivation is to find those who condemned him to a watery grave. Syndra is motivated to remain free of the Ionian government. Hecarim and Mordekaiser are serving the Shadow Isles, though for what reason is unclear as of yet.

Meanwhile, Rek'Sai currently has no purpose for existing, a fact that is at odds with every other Void champion currently in existence. She doesn't have to be rational, but even an irrational creature can speak - I believe you mentioned our resident madman, Renekton? He's quite insane, but can still speak in ways that we understand. I'm not asking for Rek'Sai to be as eloquent as Vel'Koz - that would be awful indeed! - but I want her to have a VO that can give us insights to her character.

Kobila2000Nov 27, 20141 votes

Because Cho and Vel's voices are still human, just ran through a filter. Rek'Sai's is not. Her voice is as alien as her form. Okay, another one; how do you know Panth and Leona grew up together when they look nothing like each other? But really, I'm mentioning examples that are so much more relevant that a creature's gender. It's referred to as she, therefore it means she has two xx chromosomes, making her a she. Simple as that.

I guess the best I can do is compare her to Morde and Hecarim, except at least in her case her eloquence adequately portrays the reach of her motivations. Heca and Morde are not given any reason to exist except to destroy. At least Rek'Sai needs to eat, I can't think of a reason for those two to be so committed to messing everything up. And even if you say they serve the Shadow Isles, I can't see how that's serving. Riot creates champions around a specific fantasy and sometimes those fantasies are shallow. Sometimes the fantasy is just "I want to be a huge centaur of death".

HelmightNov 27, 20142 votes

You missed the original point. Cho'Gath and Vel'Koz are male, according to Riot, and sound the part. Rek'Sai's VO could do the same, while remaining monstrous-sounding. The current VO gives no hints as to her gender, nor does it address any of the issues of her characterization. So there's still a problem.

And again: Hecarim and Mordekaiser's motivations are not entirely clear yet. As I've stated before, Riot has deliberately left them in the dark while they prepare to tell us the story of the Shadow Isles. It's more than likely that Morde and Hec both have reasons behind the things they do - I would be absolutely shocked if they literally existed just to destroy, as you have stated. Rek'Sai is a Voidborn, which all have a specific purpose to play in the approaching invasion of Runeterra. She obviously has motivations and reasons for being here, but given that she has no real VO, we have no idea what those are. Instead of being portrayed as the intelligent, brutal, otherworldly creature she is intended to be, Rek'Sai is coming across as something that I'd expect to fight as an objective monster. That could be easily fixed, if Riot so chose.

Kobila2000Nov 27, 20143 votes

Yes, it could sound feminine, but it doesn't. Because it's a monster voice. Cho could also look like Zac, but he doesn't because he's a monster-monster. I don't think you could have an irrational, completely bestial monster and make it speak English. Frankly, I like that they made one champion like this. She's shallow, but I'm okay with that, not everything in this world acts rationally.

I think you give Riot too much credit if you think those champions have been created from the start to be a part of some grand storyline. They're fantasies, they fill a certain archetype and that's really why they are the way they are. Riot talks about this all the time. And if they have some grand plan with them now, they certainly didn't have it back when they were released.

HelmightNov 28, 20142 votes

...You've missed the point entirely. Let me quote at you from another thread:

And Rek'Sai isn't just a monster. That much can be deduced from her laugh and taunt animations - you could honestly argue that she's mocking Kassadin's laugh with her own. She obviously has a higher intellect - but Riot chose not to let us in on the loop.

Rek'Sai ISN'T a "monster-monster". She is quite intelligent, as befits a Voidborn. So therefore it makes no sense that she's the only one without an English VO.

And I don't think you give Riot enough credit. They've very clearly been hinting at the history and future of the Shadow Isles for quite some time now, starting with Maokai's updated lore, Thresh's lore, the Twisted Treeline remake, and the Black Mist map they released at the end of the Harrowing. Mordekaiser and Hecarim certainly have motivations - in fact, I believe Mordekaiser is ever explicitly stated to be seeking something in his lore. Riot tore down the entire Institute of War in order to tell "grand storylines", as you so aptly put it. So it's silly to think that Rek'Sai is meant to fulfill an archetype and nothing more.

HeresyUntoFedexNov 28, 20141 votes

And Rek'Sai isn't just a monster. That much can be deduced from her laugh and taunt animations - you could honestly argue that she's mocking Kassadin's laugh with her own. She obviously has a higher intellect - but Riot chose not to let us in on the loop.

Off-topic, but I still don't see how she's mocking his laugh. Who knows, I might just be an idiot.

XemeronNov 27, 20144 votes

Seriously, they make ONE female champion you cant fap to and everyones going crazy...

catravenNov 27, 20141 votes

they make ONE female champion you cant fap to

idk... man.... i think you're wrong...

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/GD/FjXnrPRV-another-hot-female-champ

Imperial RedNov 27, 20141 votes

Those legs. MMM!

HeresyUntoFedexNov 27, 20144 votes

Who cares if you can't tell it's female by looking at it, it's a giant killer bug from another dimension.

As for why she only speaks in growls and screechs, she has absolutly no reason or way to learn human speech.

-Cho is an eldritch horror who is able to see into your very soul, so he gets a pass.

-Kog has Malhazar to teach him.

-Kha eats stuff and evolves accordingly, eating a human would allow him to mimick our speech.

-Vel is a flying tentacled mad scientest that can learn from things by shoop da whooping them to death, of course he'll end up knowing our language.

-Rek spends her time under the sand of shurima hunting things down and making dinner out of them. She has no use for learning our way of speech, not to mention no way of doing it.

CupcakeTrapNov 28, 20146 votes

I think this is actually an important point: why is it important that a Champion's gender be immediately obvious, especially when their gender is of very questionable relevance to their overall character?

Not to push the point too far, but I think there is a problem with male being the default and female a special alternative option—especially when "femaleness" is indicated mostly through sex appeal. (Probably not a danger with Rek'Sai, although hey, that's some pretty sensual growling. For only $3.99 a minute, she can devour your entire village!) I remember IronStylus initially saying something like "we have to make their boobs huge, or you wouldn't be able to see they're female in-game". There was some community discussion, and IronStylus to his very considerable credit reflected further on his position as a result, and no longer subscribes to this view. But it's the sort of thing that lots of people unconsciously believe until they stop and think about why it might be kind of messed up.

Kobila2000Nov 28, 20144 votes

There's totally the idea that male is the default and females are a deviation, it even has a name: androcentrism. Which is really ironic since technically we all start out as female.

CupcakeTrapNov 28, 20142 votes

There's totally the idea that male is the default and females are a deviation, it even has a name: androcentrism. Which is really ironic since technically we all start out as female.

I didn't want to use that term, because such terms often provoke a backlash in the LoL community, and I generally prefer to briefly explain the concept than to use a technical term with baggage, but yes.

Kobila2000Nov 28, 20143 votes

It's a simple psychological fact and readily observable, it's messed up that so many people don't even notice it.

CupcakeTrapNov 28, 20143 votes

It's a simple psychological fact and readily observable, it's messed up that so many people don't even notice it.

You'll get no argument from me there. But I think the LoL community is actually a good place for less pathological attitudes to develop. For every "omg gragas lee no shirts, riot objectifies males more than girls, lol, feminazis" poster, there's another person who's pausing to reflect on their assumptions about gender and media and maybe smarten up their attitudes.

HeresyUntoFedexNov 29, 20141 votes

Not to push the point too far, but I think there is a problem with male being the default and female a special alternative option—especially when "femaleness" is indicated mostly through sex appeal. (Probably not a danger with Rek'Sai, although hey, that's some pretty sensual growling. For only $3.99 a minute, she can devour your entire village!)

:3 Where do I sign?

DiahaneNov 29, 20142 votes

I think this is actually an important point: why is it important that a Champion's gender be immediately obvious, especially when their gender is of very questionable relevance to their overall character?

Not to push the point too far, but I think there is a problem with male being the default and female a special alternative option—especially when "femaleness" is indicated mostly through sex appeal. (Probably not a danger with Rek'Sai, although hey, that's some pretty sensual growling. For only $3.99 a minute, she can devour your entire village!) I remember IronStylus initially saying something like "we have to make their boobs huge, or you wouldn't be able to see they're female in-game". There was some community discussion, and IronStylus to his very considerable credit reflected further on his position as a result, and no longer subscribes to this view. But it's the sort of thing that lots of people unconsciously believe until they stop and think about why it might be kind of messed up.

I do agree and I'd add that the "hype" put on having a female monster champion is an indicator of this situation. It does feel like they pulled this one just to put a "checked" on the list though. As pointed out, gender isn't relevant for the character in this case, so I can't decide whether they went one step beyond philosophically (that is: a female character may be as well undistinguishable from a male one, because gender doesn't play a role on the Rift) or they just had her be female to satisfy those asking about a champion which met these criteria without having to work too hard to do something special.

OmnipheriousNov 27, 20142 votes

First look at her title, then at the lore, finally at other relevant pieces of information (like the promo video).

Her title says she's a Queen.
The Void monsters are insects (Kog turns into a butterfly, Kha) and insects usually have big Queens. Rek'Sai is pretty big and bears some resemblance to Voidlings.

Those are easy. The other information makes things difficult.

Lore says she's old and Shurima is pretty old too. Shurima fell ages ago so you'd think there would be more people after so many generations despite the harsh environment. What if Rek'Sai doesn't just kill wandering peasents on the desert? What if she drags them through her tunnels and makes them food for her young? Then again they might not be food, just prisoners for Vel'Koz to run his melting point tests on.

KingsgraveNov 27, 20143 votes

First look at her title, then at the lore, finally at other relevant pieces of information (like the promo video).

Her title says she's a Queen.

The Void monsters are insects (Kog turns into a butterfly, Kha) and insects usually have big Queens. Rek'Sai is pretty big and bears some resemblance to Voidlings.

Those are easy. The other information makes things difficult.

Lore says she's old and Shurima is pretty old too. Shurima fell ages ago so you'd think there would be more people after so many generations despite the harsh environment. What if Rek'Sai doesn't just kill wandering peasents on the desert? What if she drags them through her tunnels and makes them food for her young? Then again they might not be food, just prisoners for Vel'Koz to run his melting point tests on.

The point of my thread is that we shouldn't judge a monster or insect on the standards of intelligence of which we judge humans.

catravenNov 27, 20142 votes

hell i love this thread title. i can't even think why XD

catravenNov 27, 20142 votes

op op

IMTOOJUICYNov 27, 20141 votes

Technically, she's just a roach. No cock.

KrizalidNov 28, 20141 votes

** It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead.** (c)