A nightmare for IronStylus: why Narrative shouldn't treat the lore as a blank slate.

CupcakeTrap··48 votes·4,126 views

http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/img/champion/splash/Leona_0.jpg

So far, Narrative is treating the lore largely as a blank slate. Though I hate to disturb the tranquility of our beloved Parrot Sovereign, IronStylus, here I will risk doing so in order to illustrate why Narrative's "blank slate" attitude is problematic.

Shock Reveals: Great for new content, terrible for rewrites and retcons

The blank slate attitude goes hand in hand with Narrative's favorite toy: the shock reveal.

A shock reveal slams new content down without warning, and (obviously) also without any prior discussion with the community. That's fine for brand new material, including material that continues a prior storyline, or fleshes out in greater detail events that are already established. Want to write a story about Ezreal sneaking off to spy on Noxus? Go for it. Make it a shock reveal if you like. Same for putting out a story that illustrates Xin Zhao's escape from the arena, or a new music video, or some awesome artwork of established events.

However, because shock reveals (by their very nature) preclude any possibility of meaningful community engagement—community interaction that happens early enough in the development process to meaningfully affect it—they are deeply inappropriate for rewrites and retcons that tear up the foundations of League's lore rather than building upon them.

Incoming: lots of new material, likely full of retcons and rewrites, likely coming by shock reveal

In a recent thread, IronStylus confirmed my suspicions that Narrative is working on a truly massive block of new lore, which I expect will invoke massive rewrites of existing characters and settings, launched by shock reveal with no prior community input:

As for communication, our team is dealing with NEARLY the amount of information, story and world building that Narrative is creating. I do not envy their task.

If Narrative persists in its present MO—retcon of established lore by shock reveal—then "more lore inc" is anything but reassuring.

A parrot-lord's nightmare: what if Narrative went after Leona?

Imagine how people would feel if one day they logged in and Leona was redone as a growling Noxian with black armor. But still called Leona. Imagine the shock and dismay of all those people in the community who'd drawn Leona artwork, or written Leona lore, seeing their devotion to the character nullified. Now imagine these people logging in to ask "WHY?!?!" and seeing Narrative post something like, "oh, gosh, we're sorry about that, but we hope you'll enjoy telling new stories with our new Leona, who we think is a much more interesting character. (We felt that Mount Targon was really constraining her, and that she'll have much more interesting story opportunities as a Noxian.) Stay tuned! We've got tons of new Leona lore coming, and I think you'll really enjoy it. I wish I could share more, but it's all under wraps, haha." I think you can imagine that there might be a lot of monitors with keyboards shoved through them that day, and a lot of community artists sobbing over their tablets.

Leona is one Champion. An awesome Champion, but one Champion.

Multiply accordingly and you'll understand why we're not exactly happy with Narrative's "assurances" that they're writing lots of lore, and we'll be so "excited" when it all comes out.

And if you don't think that Narrative is making such drastic changes, well, I hope you're right. (Leona is in some ways a poor example: they'd never order a full VO rework of her. But many of these beloved Champions from League's older days are slated for such a rework, and could easily suffer that sort of fate.) But so far, they show essentially zero concern for the damage they do. They're treating an established, organic universe as a blank slate, ripping up pieces and stabbing new components down into the foundations without any regard for the damage they do to the community in the process. This approach is fundamentally flawed and has us very, very anxious.

Meaningful community engagement

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsiKOJOXMJU We're Trundle and Karma, woooooaaaaahhhhh! Let's say that Narrative were to see such horrible visions in their nightmares and, sweat upon their clammy brows, immediately phone IronStylus to tell him they weren't going to retcon Leona into a Noxian after all.

"What are you talking about? Of course you aren't! Oh, you guys," he might jovially reply.

"But wait!" Narrative might next proclaim, in this increasingly unlikely tale, "Is that not what we are about to do to so many other Champions? How shall we avert this terrible nightmare? Speak comfort to us, community!"

Here is my prescription.

  • Recognize that you do not have a great track record for predicting what the community would say, if you asked them. (Recall that Dev Blog post announcing the Great Retcon? One thing that came out was the "reassurance" that they had definitely considered all the points people were making in the comments. There was a trial before the League and Summoners were sentenced to oblivion—just a trial in absentia. This predictably failed to soothe us.) So get the genuine article: come talk with us.
  • If you're thinking about rewriting a major established story element, stop and reconsider. "I think it might be a liiiittle better if…" is not a sufficient rationale. That's all fine when you're still at the drawing board, sketching out a brand new universe. Once the universe goes live, retcons should be highly disfavored. "Meh, Vayne really should be from Piltover instead of Demacia" is the sort of thought that should be followed with, "but whatever, let's just write in a connection to Piltover for her, instead of trashing her whole background."
  • Give us some indication of what Champions, settings, and other story elements are up for retcons. Do a rework thread similar to the threads that Champions get prior to gameplay reworks or VUs. Tell us what you're thinking, and ask us what we think. The decision is still yours at the end of the day, but at least give people who are in the path of your bulldozer a chance to make their case.

But enough about Narrative, because we know they're going to "Bah! HUMBUG!" this thread and go back to planning their shock rewrites.

To the community

Let's plan for the worst and hope for the best. Keep reminding Narrative that they could turn over a new leaf anytime. In the meantime, get ready for the storm. Develop community lore. Write fiction. Draw art. Devise community theories about the lore. Create vividly and unapologetically. If you want to write stories about the League and Summoners, do it—and support each other. Walk around Runeterra like you own the place. If someone tells you you've been retconned, laugh and keep on summoning.

76 Comments

Finnical16 votes

My membership in the Institute of War will never be revoked, I will be a Summoner regardless of Riot's behavior. Let the League of Legends never die, and may the league of mobility/adc's/retcons eventually be seen as a mistake leading to a glorious return to form.

I want a surprise revert.

Starlighte10 votes

You know, every day I log onto my computer, open Chrome, pull open red tracker and S@20 and hope that I've been living some awful nightmare this entire time, or at the very least that Riot would pull a Finales Funkeln (and meet the community halfway).

But they haven't, and each day that goes by I lose more and more faith from the Narrative team over this retcon. Not only that, but what has changed since 3 years ago beyond the retcon? Narrative still barely talks to us, especially about things of actual substance. CT you've articulated this point far more eloquently than I ever could have. They really only care about shock reveals, because they think that is better or more interesting, meanwhile those of us who claim to be "dedicated _____ mains" all dread the day that Narrative will lay their gaze on our champions all "Eye of Sauron" style.

Seriously, I hope they finally start re-engaging the community on this topic. I can't tell you how frustrating it is to hear Jaredan continue saying "the retcon is here to stay, and we aren't having this conversation anymore." It's what you would expect to hear when you're 15, telling your parents that a 8:30PM bedtime is unreasonable for several different reasons, and they KNOW they're losing the argument so they just throw their weight around and close the dialogue.

My hope for Narrative to really engage the community in meaningful dialogue about direction, or lack thereof, is ebbing on a daily basis. Before long of this I'm just going to stop caring about lore. And I rue the day that happens.

Motajo7 votes

Finales Funkeln

Never forget

A Superb Villain3 votes

They really only care about shock reveals, because they think that is better or more interesting, meanwhile those of us who claim to be "dedicated _____ mains" all dread the day that Narrative will lay their gaze on our champions all "Eye of Sauron" style.

https://kmpunksays.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/tumblr_m7y8aex1td1qfy2kdo1_r2_500.gif?w=830

No champion is safe!

OuttaControl567 votes

Yeah. They haven't taken Leona and turned her into a Noxian. The messed with Skarner and Shurima, I guess, but thats unfinished business that can't be judged. (Yet. If they take another two years to update then I have an issue with the Lore). Your attitude towards what has occurred to the lore is a purist approach, no change or new development that the Narrative has produced has made you happy. Which sucks.

I thought the Sion lore would have been interesting to you. Or the Harrowing lore to be a nice breath of fresh air compared to a year ago. But apparently even these nice developments aren't enough. Remember last year, when the last time a Rioter had posted on the lore forums was about a year ago? I'd say community engagement has increased. As 'Meaningful' community engagement, I'm confused of what you mean by this. What would be meaningful to you? Thats subjective, if anything.

CupcakeTrap9 votes

Yeah. They haven't taken Leona and turned her into a Noxian. The messed with Skarner and Shurima, I guess, but thats unfinished business that can't be judged. (Yet. If they take another two years to update then I have an issue with the Lore).

Let me pause you there. Skarner. Nobody knows WTF is going on with Skarner right now. Are they planning to just take the same concept and spruce it up, in a way that doesn't really interfere with established lore? Or are they going to rewrite him, and a big chunk of Runeterra's setting in the process? I don't think Narrative sees a difference, and that's the point of this thread.

When they reworked Skarner's kit, they had many threads in which Skarner players and other players were invited to share their thoughts, and take a critical look at some of the ideas Riot was tossing around for him. It was a back-and-forth discussion. Of course, at the end of the day it was up to Riot to decide on what to do, but I believe that decision was made with some real community involvement.

Right now, it's quite likely that Skarner is about to become a radically different character. There's not a peep out of Narrative. They're not sharing their ideas. They're not asking people to comment on their ideas. They're writing a new story for Skarner in secret, and sooner or later they're going to do a shock reveal of that brand new Skarner, all pre-packaged and locked-in. They'll have a thread about the new Skarner, but it'll be a done deal. "Hmm, you're right, we could have kept a tie to the Crystal Scar, but, uh, too late for that now, it's already published." And it's not just Skarner: when they rewrite him, odds are they'll rewrite a piece of the general Runeterran setting, too. Again, not a peep out of them.

It's the same for several Shuriman Champions. Amumu? Is he even a yordle anymore? Speaking of yordles, does the Mothership exist? They've indicated they're going to delete the Mothership, but only in a very roundabout way, and they haven't responded to threads asking about Bandle City. There's no "let's talk about yordles and Bandle City; here are our ideas, let's hear your ideas, let's engage with our community." At some unknown future date, there will be a radical rewrite of Bandle City and all yordle Champions. It'll be posted by shock reveal, the community will have had zero input, and we'll be told "feel free to say how much you like it! Or dislike it! Either way, it's already done, and we're now busy rewriting something else."

Remember last year, when the last time a Rioter had posted on the lore forums was about a year ago? I'd say community engagement has increased.

I think I'd agree. There have been a few threads where Narrative has made vague motions toward "let's talk about some Champions and what you like about them." But only in the most noncommittal way, without actually taking that crucial step of saying, "so here's what we're planning to do, or maybe this, or this. What do you think? Regardless of which way we go, anything we should keep in mind? What resonates with you about this? Which aspects are important for the lore community?" The needle has moved, but just barely.

And there are other ways in which Narrative is less responsive than the Lore team was. Kitae redid part of Jayce's lore, for instance, after receiving feedback from the community. That was pretty striking. I can't imagine Narrative doing that. Everything gets posted in shrink-wrapped pre-fabbed form.

As 'Meaningful' community engagement, I'm confused of what you mean by this. What would be meaningful to you? Thats subjective, if anything.

All language is subjective, but I think this is fairly clear. Meaningful community engagement is where Riot engages with the community in a way, and at such a time, that such engagement might actually have a meaningful impact on what happens.

Meaningful engagement: "Let's talk Jax. We've identified the following key elements. Any others? Do any of these seem secondary or unimportant to you? What about that lamppost? What are your theories? We're thinking of making it a super-powerful enchanted weapon, buuuuut we haven't completely decided against retaining the 'self-nerf' angle; there's a certain fun to that. Thoughts? We're just starting to draft new backstory options for him."

Not meaningful engagement: "Here's the new Jax! Wow, we're so excited to bring the new Jax to you! Here's all his lore. Feel free to ask questions about what we've already decided! Anyway, catch you later; time to go rewrite Fiddlesticks."

Sneak Dog4 votes

They replaced Trundle though. They just took him out and replaced him with a different character. I'm not talking about him being a frost troll chieftain (old Trundle could've been that), but about his character. The new troll shares some traits with the old Trundle, but in the end, it isn't Trundle.

The Freljord event of last year is part of the new lore. It is stated as such in the infamous dev blog.

DG Ashabel7 votes

Imagine how people would feel if one day they logged in and Leona was redone as a growling Noxian with black armor.

This example goes too far, considering that the retcon already threw Leona off the rails.

Consider this: with the Solari destroyed, the public spotlight offered by the Institute was a major contribution to Leona's state of mind. As the only remaining public figure of her religion, she needed to remain a gentle and compassionate paragon because her actions would now be the only thing to remember the Solari by. The Institute therefore offered a reason for her to stay on her path, and it provided a neutral ground for her to interact with Diana and therefore for their relationship to grow.

Now that the Institute is gone, my bets are that the lore team will rewrite Leona into a morose avatar of solar vengeance who is chasing Diana around with a sword.

IronChefBoyardee5 votes

Their storyline would be more or less unchanged. They'd still be at odds, but Leona would be trying to rebuild the Solari religion by maybe traveling and showing the power of the sun, be a good-hearted defender of the people; albeit with a heavy heart knowing that she's the last of the religion for now. You guys always assume the absolute extreme worst even when it doesn't make any sense, like the Noxus-Leona argument in the OP

DG Ashabel13 votes

It's more that we're judging it by the narrative team's performance so far. They seem to absolutely love vengeance, presumably because it's such an easy motivator to shoehorn onto personal conflicts between characters.

Kalista? Vengeance. Renekton? Vengeance! Xerath? Revolution... and also vengeance! Azir? SHURIMAAAA--and don't forget vengeance. Even Sivir's purely political conflict with Noxus got replaced by a personal vendetta against Cassiopeia.

It might as well be renamed League of Vengeance at this point.

CupcakeTrap3 votes

Vengeance.

It's a good song.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AD6V9GNvVhc

MEGA MAN: Send your armies! There's no man or machine who can stop me and you'll soon see I've come for vengeance, for the first Son of Light and I'm ready, I'm willing, I'm programmed to fight!

Send me all that you've got! Send me your strongest machine! This fight my brother fought here, now, will end with me!

Is this the best you got? Is this your strongest machine?! Now, with one powershot, you'll see WHAT VENGEANCE MEANS!

Viktor YOU ARE NOW OBSOLETE! Viktor HEXKORPS, FIRE AND ADVANCE! Lux bleh X_X Lux d…demacia… Ezreal LUX! Lux X_X Ezreal NO! Kalista oh hey Kalista lemme help Ezreal What? How? Kalista just jump on spear Kalista w passive very strong imo Kalista ult good for teamfight Ezreal Sounds dangerous. I'm in! Ezreal jumps http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view1/4594799/megaman-spike-death-o.gif Ezreal BWOO-BWOO-BWOO-BWOO-bwoo-bwoo-bwoo-bwoo… Kalista lol ur skins cool Kalista how much rp Kalista can u endgame gift pls? i carry


This will probably not win any greater respect for community lore, but I also wrote essentially all of Ezreal's dialogue in this chapter using that song. I found it fit surprisingly well. And he got to steal Blitzcrank's special power.

More seriously: I do see some problems with a Champion whose thing is just giving people vengeance in exchange for their lives. Doesn't that feel like kind of a copout? I love the Erinyes idea, but…it's going to need some effort to make it work. She can't just go around sensing empathy.

LANWhale6 votes

In Summoners we trust. Besides that though i'm glad some one has posted something like this, usually people only post how bad the retcon was without saying how Narrative should of handled it. Any ways I believe in you CupcakeTrap and my are woes be heard. In CupkaceTrap we trust.

CupcakeTrap8 votes

In Summoners we trust. Besides that though i'm glad some one has posted something like this, usually people only post how bad the retcon was without saying how Narrative should of handled it.

Thank you! I think that ship has obviously sailed, but just as a wistful exercise, I'd add the following about how they should have handled it.

  • They probably shouldn't have retconned the League of Legends from League of Legends. Just saying.
  • If they felt that the League was cumbersome or awkward, or "constrained" their storytelling, maybe they should have stopped to ask for tips from the community that has been writing stories with the League for years.

"Hey community, we feel like it's weird to have Summoners as all-powerful puppetmasters who enslave Champions. How did you all deal with that?" "Oh! Well, to start with, we decided to have Summoners not be that." "Whoa. Quick, CarnivalKnights, get a pen. This stuff is gold. Go on!" "We decided that Summoners were more like radio support. They watch over Champions in battle—on the Fields and off—and use their magic to empower them. That includes, for example, channeling enchantments from magical artifacts to the Champions. That's why you buy an Infinity Edge on Ashe—she doesn't actually start swinging a sword around, she tells her Summoner to "buy" the use of that artifact using gold-points from the match, and the Summoner then channels its power down to her." "Hold on. So Anivia doesn't wear the boots?" "Anivia doesn't wear the boots, no." "Okay, coffee break. My mind is just blown. Boy are we glad we asked you! We were actually just going to delete Summoners and the League. Or maybe remake Summoners as some kinda crazy Freljord rune-mage." "Uhhh…that would be bad." "Alright, back with coffee. So. Summoners don't enslave Champions, then?" "Are you kidding? No. Champions are honored heroes. A civilization without a Champion really has to rely on the kindness of others. Look at the Marai. They were pretty screwed until they had a Champion come forth, Nami, and she entered the League to rep them. Suddenly, they had some sway." "Wait, wait. What about someone like Jinx?" "Well, okay, not 'honored' exactly. She probably booked it out of Piltover when she realized she couldn't keep blowing the city up forever. Somewhere like Zaun would quite happily sponsor her application to the League. You can't extradite from the Institute. And presumably they've got teleportation pads that Summoners and Champions can use to go straight from the Institute to other places, avoiding the risk that Cait would slap handcuffs on her the second she left Institute grounds." "Hold on. Teleportation pads? That's pretty Star Trek. So anyone can get anywhere anytime, instantly?" "Eh. Easy handwave. You need to have a huge amount of innate arcane power to use them. (Champions are obviously empowered. Summoners aren't as powerful as Champions, at all, but they—we—have the right training to let us use such things.) You can't bring much stuff other than personal effects with you. So, a little handwavey, but it actually makes some "sense" within the magical framework of the story." "Wait. Wait. Empowered? But Garen's not a mage!" "He's not a mage, but he's not just a dude in armor with a big sword. Garen is a larger-than-life hero. Sort of like how a 20th level D&D Fighter can perform superhuman feats because of positive planar energy, Garen and Champions like him are not just ordinary joes who got really good at swinging swords or shooting guns. They're touched by fate. Into each generation, a Slayer is born. Something like that." "Now, hold on a sec. That thing about Jinx. That sure sounds like the League's preventing conflict! She can just hang out in the Institute." "It's more that the League allows Jinx to have a story that isn't 'running from Caitlyn'. The Institute provides a sort of diplomatic space where even people like Garen and Darius have to grudgingly acknowledge one another. There are tons of Champions who, out in the "real world", would immediately try to kill each other on sight—the League is a place where they can have other interactions." "Other interactions?" "So, there's Garen and Kat, and—" "Goodness!" "It's an inappropriate manaless relationship. Just proccing their cooldowns." "So, uh, wait. But the LEAGUE itself is all-powerful, right? Like Kalamanda!" "The League is very far from all-powerful. It's built on consensus, not its own inherent power. It does have some of that. It's got a lot of powerful mages, and some fancy artifacts, and it's a sort of central repository for arcane knowledge. But at the end of the day, it has power because the nations of Valoran want it to have power. They grumble about it, and accuse it of being a lumbering bureaucracy, or corrupt, or whatever else, but at the end of the day, they realize that they're all better off with the League as a referee. If everyone backed out of the League, or even if a few key nations did, the League would collapse. It's always got to walk a line between enforcing some kind of limits on aggression, to prevent a Rune War, and overplaying its hand, and triggering a collapse of the international regime." "Kalamanda. Wizards. Stopping time. Beating Demacia and Noxus at the same time. All-powerful." "Not quite. So think about what the League is there for. To prevent a Rune War. What's the absolute worst thing that could happen? A war between Demacia and Noxus, right on top of a freaking nexus. That is a recipe for a thaumic disaster of Rune War proportions." "Right, so they used their unbeatable superpowers to stop it. All-powerful peace-wizards!" "Kalamanda was the League putting everything on the line and playing a very dangerous game of chicken. It used all its magical power to lock down that small area around the nexus, perhaps using the nexus itself to empower the time-lock." "All-powerful time wizards." "Think of it like a brawl between two guys. And then they pull out knives. Their friends freak out and grab them by the arms, prying them apart. They thrash and strain against their friends, but it's really kind of half-herated. That moment of separation is enough for them to realize they don't really WANT to get in a knife fight. So they save face by backing down and walking away." "You're saying that Kalamanda might have gone differently?" "Yes. It was a huge risk. There was a real chance that Demacia and Noxus would say, enough out of you, League, we're going to finish this ourselves. The League can timelock one little battle, but it has no army to field. Even calling in all the other states' armies, nobody's going to be able to prevent Demacia and Noxus from fighting if that's what they really want to do." "So basically…" "…so basically, that was the League saying 'if you guys want to do this, it's over. GG Runeterra. You have to go through us. And you'll go right through us, because we're a bunch of dorks in purple robes. But then the League will fall. And you'll have started a new Rune War. That nexus is going to blow, and we'll have failed. Runeterra will burn. So do this if you want, but don't pretend it's just another scuffle.'" "Except with the League there, they'll NEVER fight!" "Not necessarily. Canonically, yes, the League banned all violence, or something crazy like that. We've fanoned that away. The League enforces laws of war, and it'll try to set bounds on conflicts, but it won't give everything the Kalamanda treatment. Its mandate is to prevent another Rune War. Only a very few wars threaten that—like Demacia and Noxus, the two superpowers, starting a war on top of a nexus. Provided there's some halfway plausible casus belli, the League won't aggressively intervene in other conflict: it'll just say, e.g., 'alright, Noxus, Ionia, we think this is a bad idea, but if you're going to do it, remember that it stays on these islands, and neither of you is allowed to bring in any more troops than are already there, and we expect you to settle this within a few months, or we'll re-evaluate.' League matches might be used to, e.g., determine ownership of crucial locations that would be destroyed if they really fought over them." "So…destroying the League with Baron Nashor?" "Uhhhh. What?" "We thought maybe we could destroy the League rather than retconning it. With Baron Nashor. Nashorzilla! Haha." "That wouldn't do anything. That's like blowing up the EU headquarters in Brussels: it wouldn't actually destroy the EU. They'd find new office space and keep going, so long as the member-states still wanted there to be an EU. The way you'd destroy the EU would be to engineer a situation where major players walked away, or where the EU lost legitimacy by issuing new laws or regulations that nobody would follow. It's a political creature. Physically destroying some buildings isn't going to destroy the consensus, though it might catalyze some sort of change." "Okay, wait. But the League is constraining on Champions. Everything's got to be about the League!" "Not true. There are likely many Champions who show up at the League, fight a few matches, get paid, then spend the next month running around Runeterra doing other things. The League can be minimized to a simple story hook, or made a major part of the Champion's story—at your option." "What about Cho'gath and all the imprisoned Champions? THEY'RE prisoners, right?" "Well, not necessarily…it could actually go either way. Maybe they show up when summoned, as part of a dark pact with the Summoner. Cho'gath sees stains on your soul, etc. etc.—think of the Void like the Shadows in Babylon 5. Obviously, the Void itself is more chaotic and crazy, but the Champions the Void manifests as are often more humanlike in their cognition, and think about things like 'corruption'." "But what about Champions who just want to destroy the world?" "That's a problem with the Champion, not the League. A Champion who just wants to rampage around and destroy everything is a dead-end character."

  • That was a really long quoted aside. Uhhh. Where was I.
OuttaControl567 votes

Sounds nice on paper, doesn't make any sense.

Not because of the Kalamanda incident, but the Ionian one. We've been through this before, right? Noxus didn't need to do jack squat but they went through the league process all the same, even though they could pummel the heck out of Ionia if they pleased. There was no immanent threat for a RuneWar.

You might act as thought the IoW is a "last resort", but it clearly wasn't being used as one.

CupcakeTrap8 votes

I wasn't actually referring to the Noxus/Ionia invasion there; I'd edit it to swap in two random states, but the edit-charlimit bug won't let me.

I assume you're talking about the Noxian invasion of Ionia in 20 CLE, where Lee Sin set himself on fire and such. I don't remember the details of that event. Did Noxus have any sort of casus belli set up, or was it an unvarnished invasion? Let's see here.

The first Noxian invasion of Ionia, as written

Here's a run-through of what happened there. I think there are some rough spots, and it could benefit from a non-destructive rewrite/clarification, like what Sion got, but I'll start by discussing it as-is. I believe that, even as-is, it doesn't invalidate the idea that the League is reluctant to intervene except by invitation of the parties, or where the safety of Runeterra demands intervention.

Soon after Noxus and Demacia signed a treaty agreeing to settle their disputes through matches held by the young League of Legends, Noxus turned its expansionistic eye outward. Bolstered by the forces of Zaun and Bilgewater, Noxian soldiers invaded Ionia in what became the bloodiest engagement since the Rune Wars. Rallying its forces, Ionia managed to halt the progress of the invaders, but Noxian forces entrenched themselves in three of Ionia's southern provinces: Galrin, Navori, and Shon-Xan. Seeking to avoid further bloodshed, Ionia joined the League of Legends and petitioned to have the Noxians removed from Ionian soil. The decision was made to settle the matter on the Fields of Justice.

Read straight, the old lore seems to indicate that the terms of the League charter gave Ionia (perhaps with Demacian sponsorship?) some kind of right to dispute the invasion, and that a match was then held:

The match was coined "The Trial for the Isle" and it captured the attention of all of Runeterra. Despite the best efforts of Ionian champions, Noxus prevailed, although rumors abound that foul play was involved. Noxus was granted the right to maintain its occupation of the Ionian provinces, and no appeal of the decision could be made for fifteen years.

Why would Noxus resort to League adjudication? Maybe it found that resistance was stiffer than it expected. Maybe it found that its aggressive tactics were leaving little worth possessing, and it realized that if it kept rampaging through, it was going to end up with a smoldering, poisoned wasteland to its name. Maybe it had other political objectives, and wanted a way to get its troops redeployed before it took any further casualties.

It's also possible that Noxus had no say in the matter. I do think that it would be strange for the League to assert jurisdiction without a serious stake in the matter, but if Noxus doesn't protest too vigorously, it could happen. The League wants to have jurisdiction over conflicts; it just has limited ability to do so. I think it's true that if Noxus adamantly insisted that it would not turn the matter over to the League, there would have been a problem. Maybe the League would have said "fine…but Demacia can send in some troops to shore up Ionia's defenses. How does that sound, Noxus? You feeling more ready to talk?" Or maybe Noxus just figured, for the reasons outlined above, that it would prefer to settle the rest of this by League match. It had perhaps had enough of Ionian guerrilla warfare.

So there was a match, and Noxus won. Pretty nice win for Noxus. It got the Isles, and got to ship most of its troops back home. It also got a peace edict, meaning that good ol' law-abiding Demacia lost any opportunity to jump in.

So that led to the Noxian occupation. Then Lee Sin set himself on fire, there were tons of protests, and Valoranian sentiment turned strongly against Noxus. (Perhaps they felt that Noxus had taken advantage of the relative weakness of the newly founded League.)

(Lee sets himself on fire and…) Almost immediately, there was a public outcry for the League to reconsider its ruling. Moved to action, many of Ionia’s most notable figures spoke out, demanding an early rematch.

So Ionia demanded a rematch. Then:

In uncharacteristic fashion, Noxus offered Ionia an early rematch, putting to rest concerns that Ionia might betray its agreement to abide by the League’s previous ruling. Ionia accepted Noxus' offer, and the two city-states entered negotiations to solidify the stakes of the match. It was ultimately determined that if Ionia wins, Noxus must withdraw its forces in full, and immediately halt any and all extraction of Ionian resources. However, should Noxus prevail, Ionia must completely surrender the southern provinces to the nation of Noxus, and furnish one Noxian designee with a seat amongst the Ionian Elders. This would give Noxus a voice and ear inside the government of Ionia.

So Noxus decided that it was willing to have a rematch. It let Ionia double-down: if Ionia wins, fine, they leave those awful islands, which were perhaps proving more of a nuisance than they'd planned. But if Noxus wins, it gets to sink its claws into the Ionian leadership. And hey, all it's got to do is beat those wussy Ionians in a League match. It did it before. Sounds like a deal.

Rewriting it

I've hinted above at how details might be added in to make it flow more smoothly. I've got no problem with that. The original lore is pretty rough, and often leaves a lot unsaid. I don't consider it a destructive retcon to go back and fill in some of those gaps, e.g. how the war was going for Noxus, why it might agree to a League adjudication, or (if the League simply decreed it would be adjudicated) why Noxus wouldn't or couldn't block it.

Fried Noob4 votes

Your fears seem really baseless, to the point that you have to make up a ludicrous example to explain your point. We have one full lore of a previous champion and it is a vast improvement while maintaining his identity. They made it so that Sion was a badass leader that was resurrected as a living symbol of Noxian ideals that turned him into an undead monster. Compared to the old lore that was interchangeable with Urgot's, they kept his identity while sprucing up the lore. They did not, as you are stating with your dumb Leona example, make him a cowardly Demacian spirit.

CupcakeTrap14 votes

Your fears seem really baseless, to the point that you have to make up a ludicrous example to explain your point.

Trundle

We have one full lore of a previous champion and it is a vast improvement while maintaining his identity. They made it so that Sion was a badass leader that was resurrected as a living symbol of Noxian ideals that turned him into an undead monster.

Actually, Sion's rewrite wasn't much of a retcon at all. The biggest change was to his goofy Ahnuld persona, which was never really part of his story. Sion is an example of a dramatic improvement achieved by taking the essential outline of his established lore and energizing it with new material. Nothing in it conflicts with the League, either. Sion's new lore is fully backwards-compatible.

Sion's an example of how you don't need to break the setting, or demolish characters, to add new material.

Motajo3 votes

Your fears seem really baseless, to the point that you have to make up a ludicrous example to explain your point.

Trundle

We have a winner, folks. /thread

Gentleman Gaston4 votes

Sion's new lore is fully backwards-compatible.

Not true, actually. How, you ask?

JarvanIV

Sion's entire purpose is to kill for the sake of Noxus, specifically Jarvan IV. Now, you can argue that they could have kept that in league (HAWHAWHAW) with the IoW lore, but that removes a lot of the teeth from the character.

Swain: "Sion! I have given you a new purpose through blood: to destroy the Lightshields and all of Demacia in the name of Noxus." Sion : "I will march on their kingdom. I will crush their skulls and feel their blood and gore slither down my throat as I drink their life essence." Swain: "Erm, yeah. About that. Actually we're going to be putting you in a gladiatorial arena that is heavily monitored by supreme mages so that while you may slay Jarvan an infinite amount of times he's never actually put in real danger. You're here primarily to settle political disputes through never-ending but ultimately fake combat." Sion: "Oh man, that's weak."

Sion's hook is that he is a tool for war being used by Swain outside of Sion's control, which is fogged without a real bloodlust. Put him in the IoW and you have the same story as before: stagnant character who can never go anywhere or do anything because their prime directive interferes with that of the League's. The League's removal is the sole deciding factor in Sion actually getting a story worth telling.

Xulsigae6 votes

While fighting in the League he might get a sense of himself long enough for him to figure some things out and perhaps break from Swain's control.

The League isn't holding him back, writing is.

Gentleman Gaston3 votes

Ah, okay, so he can break Swain's control...and then continue to do the exact same thing. With the League in play Swain having control doesn't matter because whatever contrived story I can come up with is only a means to an end: getting this character into the League and keeping them there forever.

Xulsigae7 votes

Again, writing is holding him back, not the League. The League isn't the be all end all of Rune Terra if it's written properly. It's a major point (and the namesake of the the game) but it's not the dead end that it is made out to be.

No champion will ever die unless Narrative goes completely crazy. Sion will never achieve his purpose of killing Jarvan, So...the League being gone hasn't improved any part of that.

CupcakeTrap10 votes

Again, writing is holding him back, not the League. The League isn't the be all end all of Rune Terra if it's written properly. It's a major point (and the namesake of the the game) but it's not the dead end that it is made out to be.

This is an important point. There is a difference between "there's a League of Legends" and "every story is about the League of Legends". The League does provide a universal story hook that you can rely on to have character interactions and such that would be utterly impossible otherwise. That advantage shouldn't be underestimated: it's very handy to give all characters a common thread. However, there are tons of non-League stories that can either be totally independent or simply gain an interesting new dimension from the presence of the League.

Similarly, if you like, a Champion's League tie-in can be limited to "they're also a League Champion, and show up there to fight sometimes." Nothing at all wrong with that. You can also make the League a bigger part of their character if you prefer—for example, a huge part of Nami's story is leading the Marai out of isolation and into the international community as their first Champion representing them in the League, and her subsequent search for allies in this strange new world.

Gentleman Gaston4 votes

They probably won't kill off Jarvan IV, as he's still has a story to be told. Jarvan III however...

A political takedown like that could never happen under the League, and if we go down some plotline where the IoW was forced to look the other way than we have the whole Kalamandia plot again. The League prevents (edit: largescale) conflict. Argue its merits, but you can not deny that fact.

Xulsigae4 votes

There have been conflicts while the League was around.

Gentleman Gaston3 votes

None that weren't completely under the League's control.

Xulsigae2 votes

This is not true.

DG Ashabel5 votes

Yeah, the League was so totally in control of the Freljord civil war, and Kassadin waging war on the Void cultists, and Diana burning down the Solari, and Elise running a human sacrifice cult right under their noses, and Jayce invading Zaun, and Syndra wrecking Ionian temples, and Zed slaughtering the Kinkou.

--oh wait.

Gentleman Gaston2 votes

Lemme clarify: the League prevents large scale conflict. Additionally, the later characters you mention exist in a weird portion of LoL's existence where Narrative had stopped including the IoW as a plot point but hadn't yet made a final decision so this ground is extremely shaky and can be used as either side of the argument depending on how you want to spin it.

Xulsigae4 votes

Do we need large scale conflict? We won't really get it now, as no faction can be destroyed entirely nor can a champion be killed. The stakes are the same, but with less champion interaction.

DG Ashabel5 votes

For one, your clarification is a shameless falsehood. At the time when Kitae was writing all that lore, she was till discussing it with the Institute of War in mind and acknowledged it as such. Hell, Jayce's lore was set up as him becoming the official representative of Piltover in the League; the champion of the city, rather than a champion as a title.

For two, if you really think that only large scale conflicts matter in terms of narrative and character development, then I would argue that it's your lack of creativity that is holding back the lore in your eyes. Conflict is conflict. It doesn't need a pointless body count of a thousand faceless mooks in order to matter.

Narasimha4 votes

They...don't get involved in fistfights between children either. They exist to mediate wars on a larger scale, between nations. The Freljord war was a civil war, and was mostly a 'cold war' (huehue). While there were definitely some skirmishes and shows of power, there was no indication it was going to escalate into something massive. Kassadin fights Malzahar and their supports battle each other, but unless they both go full power and start throwing serious chunks of Void energy around, its still pretty low key overall. Diana has not 'burned down' the Solari, just its elders. The clan itself still exists, insofar as we know. If they don't know about Elise's practices, how are they going to stop it...? Jayce vs Viktor is a personal feud. Syndra vs Ionia and Zed vs Shen are also personal battles.

I believe the point to be made is, the League has shown control over the major battles that we've seen, namely Ionia vs Noxus.

Xulsigae4 votes

They got involved with Noxus and Ionia when the participants came to the League to request its assistance. They didn't force it on Noxus or Ionia.

Many of the personal conflicts and such show that the League isn't all powerful or so petty as to prevent all fights.

Its main goal is to prevent another Rune War or massive destruction by magic (Kalamanda). Less than that, they don't really mind what you do.

DG Ashabel4 votes

The League has actually become involved in the relationship between Noxus and Ionia after the war was over, and only because Ionia chose to involve them. Your own example contradicts your argument.

CupcakeTrap7 votes

This might be the case if we were going with the version of the League that stops all violence everywhere forever. That version of the League poses all kinds of problems. But it's disingenuous to define the choice as between "no League" or "an all-powerful awful story-killing League that nobody would ever want".

They can use Sion to great effect in the League, but his main use remains on the battlefield. That's true in either universe. Actually, I'll go further and say that the League makes it easier to have a war plot between Demacia and Noxus, because you have an outside force that can be pushing for peace while they fight and put some kind of natural limit on the hostilities. It's much easier to write in a limited-scope war between Demacia and Noxus with the League. More wars means more time for Sion to charge across the battlefield in pursuit of Jarvan's head.

It's true that a Leagueless universe makes it easier if you want to have constant, churning warfare between Demacia and Noxus: one long war that never ends. But I think outbreaks of war punctuated by periods of uneasy peace, with some shadow/proxy wars mixed in, make for a more interesting setting than a 40K-esque "there is only war" setup.

Why? Well, for one thing, Sion is going to look really stupid if Demacia and Noxus are at war constantly but he never manages to get him. He starts seeming like Wiley E. Coyote. With the League, you get two great things for him:

  1. He can fight J4 on the Fields frequently, with the dark undertone that this is a foreshadowing of what may happen when they meet on a real battlefield. In his muddled state, Sion may not even realize that it isn't real. You can write stories that have him thinking he's finally achieved his objective, without actually killing off J4, and explore his confusion and rage when he discovers that it was all a game. IS THIS WHAT PASSES FOR WAR?!
  2. Speaking of wars, the punctuated nature of warfare in the League universe sets the stage for dramatic clashes between Demacia and Noxus, rather than a long, drawn-out, "they've been at war for ten years now, why isn't J4 dead yet?" awkwardness. When war breaks out between Demacia and Noxus, it's dramatic, pulling in all the nations of Runeterra and the League. It feels epic. And it lets you balance periods of buildup and bursts of climactic action.
Gentleman Gaston2 votes

The entire goal of the IoW is to prevent war and to reduce potential conflicts to a highly controlled game between two parties. It's an excuse plot to explain gameplay, as has been pointed out numerous times. However, if you remove the League's "unlimited cosmic power" holes start to open up. Without the ability to restrain conflict the League loses almost all of its influence. Noxus simply invades Ionia and just keeps it forever. Escalation over Kalamandia results in the all out war between Noxus and Demacia that would have taken place without the League's interference. Magical explosions. End of the world. Unless we're scrapping the whole "The League was formed to prevent conflict that would cause global damage", to which I question why the League would have even been formed in the first place.

I get that, to you and others, there exists some iteration of the League that doesn't prevent champions like Sion from fulfilling their destinies and having full and rich stories with complete arcs. The issue is that I can't. I can not imagine a League that, while still serving as the League, does not inhibit characters like Sion and from the conflicts in the world. Maybe like a gladiatorial arena hosted by some powerful individuals where champions fight for blood and honor (I can so see characters like Rengar, Pantheon, or Draven doing something like this). Which, tbh would actually be super cool.

Xulsigae4 votes

That you can't imagine it doesn't mean it didn't happen. There have been many examples given by fans of ways it worked, and many examples in the lore itself for it to work. Conflicts have happened without the League's involvement. If the League came off as too controlling, that is the writer's fault, not the League's.

Gentleman Gaston3 votes

Most examples I've read are derivations of "The League is still in place but has less power" to which I say "What prevents any of the persons or nations that desire conflict from then being able to ignore the League's restrictions on conflict? Why must they then obey the League's laws? If the League can not prevent conflicts from escalating to beyond their control than what is the point of the Leauge?" The prior lore has arguably been set up as a giant powder keg with the only thing in place preventing an apocalypse being the League. Without said powder keg there would be no reason for the characters to fight in the first place, so no League. Without the League to prevent the conflict the conflict would escalate into an apocalyptic scenario. Remove the apocalyptic threat and there'd be no reason for the League to form in the first place.

The entire prior Lore is a jenga castle: not at all sturdy and immediately falls over once you remove even one of the bricks.

DG Ashabel5 votes

Do you prefer a lore that is simply a pile of bricks without a blueprint or a logical way to be put together?

Gentleman Gaston1 votes

I'm sorry, but I don't find "convoluted excuse plot" to be logical. A jenga tower is built logically with the materials it's limited to (materials here being the excuse plot), but it's still extremely fragile and falls easily. I'll take my bricks and start working on my house now.

DG Ashabel5 votes

But you do, apparently, find a world where every single nation undergoes a world-shattering apocalypse to be completely logical. Have you considered that between Azir vs. Xerath in Shurima, Demacia and Noxus duking it out, and Bilgewater undergoing a Shadow Isles-powered zombie apocalypse, there is no way for the setting to come together because overlapping multiple apocalypses will demolish the focus of the narrative?

No, you cannot build a house in this case. Not when you have four foundations overlapping each other in a manner that would make the entire structure collapse four seconds after it's built.

Xulsigae3 votes

If you say so.

I suggest reading more of the past lore to get a clearer picture of what the League actually did and what it's limits were.

CupcakeTrap6 votes

Most examples I've read are derivations of "The League is still in place but has less power" to which I say "What prevents any of the persons or nations that desire conflict from then being able to ignore the League's restrictions on conflict? Why must they then obey the League's laws? If the League can not prevent conflicts from escalating to beyond their control than what is the point of the Leauge?"

The League is built of consensus. It is a manifestation of the shared agreement of the nations of Runeterra that, at the end of the day, they do not want to go back to the Rune Wars.

The WTO has no armies. How does it restrain the economies of the biggest superpowers in the world? How do a bunch of technocrats and diplomats force a nuclear superpower like the United States to respect its rules on tariffs?

The answer: consensus and institutional strength. (It's worth noting that it also has an imperfect track record.)

Same with the EU. How does the EU get away with regulating affairs between member-states? It has no army. It has no all-powerful mages. But it gets to do things that have people in Europe protesting in the streets and demanding that their governments withdraw. Yet it holds together.

The League absolutely can contain conflicts: at least so far, at least mostly. To date, when the League has thrown down a "Hear ye and be warned!" and called an end to hostilities, the nations of Valoran have (generally) respected it, if grudgingly. But every war is a crisis for the League, and it's likely that even non-military conflicts can prove quite the headache. Keeping the League going is a difficult job, but one that people like Karma are convinced is worth doing.

Narasimha4 votes

Out of curiosity, did you find a way for Rek to fit in the League? And lets not go down the "She was captured route", thats a dead end already. Though it does raise some interesting questions as to how she could even be captured in the first place.

CupcakeTrap6 votes

Out of curiosity, did you find a way for Rek to fit in the League? And lets not go down the "She was captured route", thats a dead end already. Though it does raise some interesting questions as to how she could even be captured in the first place.

I don't know much about her yet, so it's hard to say.

What we have so far is: "she's a Void monster who lives in Shurima and eats people." I imagine more is coming. But based on just that, I'd say that she might be one Champion for whom "literal summoning" would fit. Maybe she's bound to Shurima by her very nature, as a Void manifestation in Shurima, but she can be temporarily summoned to the Fields of Justice for matches.

As for why they don't just kill her, well, probably the same reason that in a Leagueless universe nobody's gone out to kill her: Void monsters aren't really of this world, and though they can be "killed", they'll come back sooner or later. (Maybe forcing them through the dimensional fabric by killing them often means they pull some other Void nastiness back with them when they return, making it especially unwise to try to kill them.) As for why they don't capture her, maybe her bond with Shurima is so strong that they can at most occasionally pull her to the Fields for a few matches a day.

That's all quite speculative, because I haven't seen her full lore yet, but my intuition is that she might be one example of a monster Champion who can have a pretty simple "summoned in" connection to the League.

Narasimha2 votes

The dangerous part about this, is that it attributes to Narrative's "All-powerful Summoners" statement. You're giving them the power to literally pluck a creature through time and space at will, a being that has no other connections to the IoW. Its not like she's even being bound in the League, since we expressly see her in Shurima. Again, we don't know anything about her lore if that changes anything, but I've given her some fair thought, and its hard to place her anywhere in the League without causing some issues.

DG Ashabel5 votes

The dangerous part about this, is that it attributes to Narrative's "All-powerful Summoners" statement.

Does it really? Cho'Gath's lore states that it's his magic that allows the Summoners to summon him, not the other way around. He is essentially corrupting their magic in order to gain access to Valoran's politics.

Even now, something dark stirs in Icathia, perverting the summoning rituals of the League to allow the presence of Cho'Gath.

If Cho'Gath is so powerful that he can warp summoning rituals of the League to summon him, what would stop him from calling up all of his Voidborn buddies whenever he wants to rampage across the Fields of Justice? If anything, that could make an interesting story in terms of Summoners being powerless to stop the Void's advance.

Narasimha1 votes

He is essentially corrupting their magic in order to gain access to Valoran's politics.

Somehow, just somehow, I HIGHLY doubt he came to Runeterra to meddle with human politics. In my day, the more plausible theory was that he allowed himself to be summoned and captured to act as a scout, to test our world's best.

If Cho'Gath is so powerful that he can warp summoning rituals of the League to summon him, what would stop him from calling up all of his Voidborn buddies whenever he wants to rampage across the Fields of Justice?

...A lot. I am strong enough to fight a single unarmed man down to submission. However, I am also confident that I would have to turn tail and run against two or more opponents. The ability to do a lesser action does not mean the ability to do a greater. Corrupting a summoning to let himself be caught is of a far different magnitude than actually hijacking the summoning process to bring over others.

Chromatic Eagle2 votes

I'm not sure you should be speaking for IS's (probably going to regret that initial) state of mind. I don't think they're going to rewrite Leona considering her lore is one of the least attached to the League, besides her judgment. Yes, IS could publically say he's ok with a rewrite but be crying on the inside, but he seems like a flexible guy. He might be able to provide some input or even ask the fans how we see her. He's done that for Taric and Poppy so far.

Sneak Dog7 votes

However, the example with Leona already happened. Trundle never was a popular champion though and some people like the new one more. It's been admitted that Trundles retcon wasn't done in the best way (edit:I should probably add it was said to be in the right direction), but never has any Rioter even suggested going back to him. They could've made the frost troll chieftain old Trundle just fine. But apparently once a retcon is done, it is set in stone.

Trundle is a clear example of a champion getting replaced entirely because it fits Riots story better. I will not be surprised when it happens next time. Of course, it couldn't happen to a popular champion like Leona though, there'd be too much upheaval about that...

Personally, I am vehemently against the* idea* of just replacing any existing champion. I think that should not be a thing, even in this retcon. Riot seems to disagree both with Trundle and Xerath (unless one's main motivation doesn't count for character, but I think Kalista would disagree).

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