I am sorry to the people who are not impressed about Swain, but I am loving everything about him.

Electro522·Jan 23, 2018·81 votes·12,062 views

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaGaqTW6QPQ

He looks badass He sounds badass His kit is badass

He's just dripping with lore (I'm sure Necrit is drooling right now).

Honestly, I have not been this excited for a champ since Jhin came out. I know quite a few people have a few qualms with him, but for me.......

God damn, I might just become a Swain main, because I am LOVING THIS.

EDIT: Holy freaking hell! There are Crows (or Ravens....can't tell) that surround him on a near constant basis while you play. It is extremely noticeable when you first start the game, because they're everywhere!

Here's Redmercy's video on Swain Gameplay (just watch as he walks out to lane....you'll notice them):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARqO3RCJRVg

I am 100% sold now. That just did it for me. I've never seen that much attention to detail put into a champ except Jhin.

The more I find out about this, the more I fall in love with it. This is absolutely incredible Riot!

157 Comments

BrutusnessJan 23, 201856 votes

Of course. Most of the complaints are just cosmetic, especially the hair. But the kit and voicelines are so fucking good.

AbibyamaJan 23, 20186 votes

I was honestly expecting disappointment threads when it comes to gameplay

GreenLoreJan 23, 201824 votes

Overall I am not too happy with a lot of things about him(no beatrice at his side,no complete bird transformation,no cane and I don't like his hairstyle).

However I don't think the rework itself is bad,just not as good as I had hoped.

EDIT: To clarify,I made this post right after the reveal before we saw his dance animations or the birds sitting on the rift. However my biggest issue is his design eitherway.

HigeJan 23, 201815 votes

oh please tell us how much time did you invest on Swain for you to forge this unbiased opinion?

mind you, this is not a new champion or at least is not supposed to be but alas, enjoy the new addition to your roster

Electro522Jan 23, 201829 votes

Uh....none actually. I've played Swain maybe a total of 10 times. He's never been that interesting to me, just an annoyance really in the game.

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic, or serious. I know that people are disappointed with it, and I'm not trying to bash them. I'm just showing my appreciation for what Riot has done here. This is strictly my opinion, and by the looks of it, there are some people who agree with me.

HigeJan 23, 201816 votes

You have an interesting way of showing appreciation and at the same time dismissing quite a lot of feedback, you might have a bunch on your side but that doesn't mean much specially when you all have zero contempt for who Swain was

Of course you wanted a new champ and you got it, there's no reason for you to even consider anyone else, I guess

Electro522Jan 23, 201810 votes

But.....I'm not dismissing the feedback? I specifically said "I know people are disappointed with it, and I'm not trying to bash them."

That is their opinion, and they are entitled to it. The 3 biggest things that people are upset about is:

No Beatrice
Looks too much like Vlad
Ult doesn't transform him completely

And these are all valid arguments. Since I wasn't a Swain main, I'm not going to argue against them, since I have no foundation to build off of.

And as for me saying that people agree with me.....I'll admit....probably shouldn't have said that. It's likely what made you think I was dismissing the feedback. So, for that, I do apologize.

HigeJan 23, 20187 votes

Good, what ticked me off was the tone on your title, seems particularly condescending and almost mocking those who are displeased with the rework. I personally disagree with the direction but I do think the final product is incredibly polished and well executed as well as thought out... just very far away from who Swain was, which maybe it's a good thing though I fear that things get so streamlined that there's no space for a champion with a cane or with less than ideal muscle mass, pretty sad imo

RiotRiot ScathlockeJan 23, 201845 votes

I think this reveals a huge part of what the writer and the champ pod were aiming for - Swain was a champion who didn't provoke a lot of strong feelings either way, as PE just articulated very clearly. Based on a LOT of player data and feedback, old Swain not particularly interesting to a lot of players. Now there are a lot MORE players who want to find out more.

It's okay not to like something, it's okay to have the opposite opinion... But it's not okay to say that person's enjoyment is invalid because they aren't a real fan, or whatever.

Personally, I SUCK at the game. Like, everyone in this thread would destroy me. But now I feel like I actually want to play Swain, whereas before I didn't.

HellioningJan 23, 201818 votes

It's okay not to like something, it's okay to have the opposite opinion... But it's not okay to say that person's enjoyment is invalid because they aren't a real fan, or whatever.

On one hand, this is entirely true. Gatekeeping sucks, and a lot of the champs getting full reworks are unpopular for a reason. Trying to make them more popular will, by necessity, require changing some things.

That being said, it's still immensely shitty to make a unique character more generic in an attempt to make them more popular. You have to realize why the people that are upset feel that way, right?

Personally, I SUCK at the game. Like, everyone in this thread would destroy me. But now I feel like I actually want to play Swain, whereas before I didn't.

I don't see what this has to do with anything? Hige was saying that Paleo is happy because he didn't play Swain beforehand, not being Paleo is bad at the game.

RiotRiot ScathlockeJan 23, 201829 votes

I'm saying, everyone else in this thread is likely more experienced than me in playing League... but highly experienced players aren't the majority of players. Not by a long way.

And I have to disagree that Swain has been made "more generic". The full champion lore (and his place in Noxus) is far more unique, and "uniquely League" than what existed before, IMO. :-) Also, he totally got a promotion. And people's hair can grow over time. :-P

It does suck that you (and anyone else) feels that your dedication to a champion in the game has been devalued or undermined, and I feel bad for you. But I hope, in time, you'll give the new Grand General another chance to impress and intrigue you.

NefasJan 23, 201821 votes

I really don’t understand how anyone could claim he isn’t more generic and looks uniquely LoL. Can you please explain your reasoning? I don’t get how he doesn’t just look like Lucius Malfoy or League’s own Vladimir.

HellioningJan 23, 201839 votes

I'm saying, everyone else in this thread is likely more experienced than me in playing League... but highly experienced players aren't the majority of players. Not by a long way.

I know. I just don't see how that's relevant.

And I have to disagree that Swain has been made "more generic". The full champion lore (and his place in Noxus) is far more unique, and "uniquely League" than what existed before, IMO. :-) Also, he totally got a promotion.

He literally looks just like Lucius Malfoy, and I can think of 5 characters with evil right hands before I can think of one that transforms into a giant demon bird.

It does suck that you (and anyone else) feels that your dedication to a champion in the game has been devalued or undermined, and I feel bad for you. But I hope, in time, you'll give the new Grand General another chance to impress and intrigue you.

Yes, yes, standard narrative platitudes. I don't even know why I bother.

SociopathFriendJan 24, 20182 votes

I know. I just don't see how that's relevant.

Initially the OP mentioned not playing Swain and additional comments in the thread refered to how much they played with him. This correlates to actual skill in the game and is likely why the Rioter mentioned he isn't good. Not relevant to your comment does not mean it isn't relevant to the chain.

He literally looks just like Lucius Malfoy, and I can think of 5 characters with evil right hands before I can think of one that transforms into a giant demon bird.

Probably because transforming into an animal, even a bestial evil humanoid version, is very common; you have just drawn the distinction of "bird is special" to make it different when it is not. Turning into an animal is just as generic as the magic hand- if not moreso.

Yes, yes, standard narrative platitudes. I don't even know why I bother.

Because you care and dislike change, even if that change ultimately is received positively by a greater number of players. If 2 people like new Swain for every 1 person that liked old Swain, that's a net success however much the 1 person hates it.

Which is why the Rioter mentioned that the perception across most of the gaming population for Swain was "meh". It's not going to be a 2-1 ratio. It's going to be much better purely because prior- people didn't care. Swain isn't like Garen or Tryn where complaints about the kit and how they play-act occur very often- he simply was.

HellioningJan 24, 20188 votes

Initially the OP mentioned not playing Swain and additional comments in the thread refered to how much they played with him. This correlates to actual skill in the game and is likely why the Rioter mentioned he isn't good. Not relevant to your comment does not mean it isn't relevant to the chain.

OP mentioned not playing Swain in order to say they were not a previous Swain fan, not that they were unskilled in general. Now that you've explained it, I can kinda see how Scathlocke interpreted it the way they did, but I'm fairly certain that's not correct.

Probably because transforming into an animal, even a bestial evil humanoid version, is very common; you have just drawn the distinction of "bird is special" to make it different when it is not. Turning into an animal is just as generic as the magic hand- if not moreso.

I think 'turning into an animal' and 'turning into a bestial evil humanoid version of an animal' are distinct enough, and most 'bestial evil humanoid version of animals' are mammals, especially wolves. Sure, if you describe Swain as 'turning into an animal', he sounds generic, but I could then say that new Swain 'has a special body part' and now he's even more generic.

Because you care and dislike change, even if that change ultimately is received positively by a greater number of players. If 2 people like new Swain for every 1 person that liked old Swain, that's a net success however much the 1 person hates it.

Which is why the Rioter mentioned that the perception across most of the gaming population for Swain was "meh". It's not going to be a 2-1 ratio. It's going to be much better purely because prior- people didn't care. Swain isn't like Garen or Tryn where complaints about the kit and how they play-act occur very often- he simply was.

So, in other words, if you like a character that's unpopular, too bad. They're gonna change everything they can to make it more popular.

I'm aware I'm intentionally making that sound as aggressive as I can, but that's basically what it boils down to. If that's the case, then why bother having unpopular champs at all? Why not re-release Ahri and Yasuo for the next few years?

WolfeurJan 24, 20187 votes

He literally looks just like Lucius Malfoy, and I can think of 5 characters with evil right hands before I can think of one that transforms into a giant demon bird.

Ahri Because Azir hybrids Cassiopeia human Elise animal Nidalee and Nasus shapeshifters Nami are Rakan so Renekton truly MonkeyKing unique Rengar in Shyvana this Udyr game Warwick right? Xayah

WestTigerJan 24, 201810 votes

You just proved that even with the same overall theme of 'animal hybrids', none of these champs can be mistaken for another, proving the strong distinct visual design of each of them.

Yet Swain can be easily mistaken for a bigoted wizard living in Great Britain who doesn't even exist in the same universe.

OleandervineJan 24, 20185 votes

I wonder if you're aware of how common most of the champ inspirations in this game are. Nami is a mermaid, Ahri is every anime chick or fox demon ever, the Shurman Ascended are literally Egyptian gods, Elise and Cassiopeia are entities from DND or Greek Myth. Warwick is literally any werewolf ever. Wukong is literally the Monkey King from Chinese legend - not even a name change, straight up same guy. Rengar looks exactly like Ajani Goldmane and pretty much every catfolk in Mirrodin. Udyr is every druid in DND ever. Xayah and Rakan are glorified harpies. Shyvana is a Dragonblood from DND, though she's honestly the most uncommon.

But seriously, how do you sit there and accuse Swain of being a rip off when Wukong is LITERALLY SUN WUKONG in every aspect?

Go sit down and take your tunnel visioned opinion with you. You can't use similarities to outside familiar entities as a cause to get your panties in a twist if the game is dripping with them.

Nivek EleventhJan 25, 20182 votes

Been thinking the same thing. Very few champs are completely unique and I think new Swain has some sort of philosophy that makes him special compared to other white-haired super villains. (based on the spoiler video) But if a list was made from most generic to least generic he would be well enough down.

Bouncemaster ZacJan 24, 201813 votes

{quoted}

I know. I just don't see how that's relevant.

He literally looks just like Lucius Malfoy, and I can think of 5 characters with evil right hands before I can think of one that transforms into a giant demon bird.

Yes, yes, standard narrative platitudes. I don't even know why I bother.

Honestly yeah, this is one of the most overtly-generic "evil lord" type characters I've ever seen. Like, having a "demon-possessed right hand" is so generic that it's the literal go-to for mocking chuunibyo/weeaboo-type character designs. His new kit seems cool, but all of the originality is just gone completely.

AxzariousJan 24, 20187 votes

How generic the arm angle ends up being depends on the lore they roll out. I was really hoping they'd retain the cane, as well as use birds in his abilities more, but alas bird-mode is now dead (except for kind of on the tyrant swain skin - even then, it kind of looks less impressive). I was also hopeful that they would have retained the elements of zone control and damage over time he had in his first kit.

Know what would have been cool? If his "Vision of Empire" called down a flock of ravenous birds, and his Q had him literally fling a group of demonic/conjured birds at somebody. If there's no mention of him in his lore about being able to see though the eyes and communicate with all his birds, i'm going to be very disappointed.

BrutusnessJan 23, 20186 votes

Honestly, I think this is my favourite remake you guys have ever done. Just played a PBE match and loved how he felt. My only confusion was the long hair on his base, it just seems unnecessary.

Illâoi Evê SiônJan 24, 201813 votes

{quoted}

And I have to disagree that Swain has been made "more generic". The full champion lore (and his place in Noxus) is far more unique, and "uniquely League" than what existed before, IMO. :-) Also, he totally got a promotion. And people's hair can grow over time. :-P

Visually, he looks similar to Vladimir and Lucius Malfoy, his lightning reminds me of UNLIMITED POWAH, his color scheme was changed to red because "Noxus" and it makes him look like just another Darkin or Blood Mage. Lore-wise he might be unique, I don't know yet, but in-game lore isn't a thing, so you can't just ignore these points.

I know the initial response here is to wait until he hits live because this is a first reaction and the first reaction to change is always adversity, but if this feedback persists (maybe you could make a survey on the subject?) is there any chance at all that it will be addressed? Is there any chance he'll get a haircut, or is this final?

ShinjusukeJan 24, 201810 votes

You're missing the point.

You can't just essentially DELETE an old character, have new people say "wow I like Swain now this is a definite improvement", and then use that as justification to tell the LONGTIME FANS OF ONE OF THE OLDEST CHARACTERS IN LEAGUE that their assessment of the COMPLETE REDOING OF THE CHARACTER is less important than the newbies.

That's just shitty. It. Is. Shitty. And there's no way to spin it to pretend otherwise without being egotistical. You guys kept virtually nothing about old Swain, at least don't come along and say that the people who have had this as their favorite, or one of their favorite, champions for years aren't entirely, 100000000% justified in being more than a little upset.

You'd think after the several times Riot has done this to champions and gotten backlash from their core playerbase that they'd learn to respect that core playerbase, but I keep forgetting the old Riot that cared died years ago.

HomDonJan 25, 20185 votes

Exactly. I feel completely uprooted and disrespected by the removal of the ol Swain I cherished so much.

Star GuardíanJan 24, 20183 votes

I like everything about his new look except the hair.

Baron of BreadJan 24, 20183 votes

People can also get a haircut, and Swain (at least in his previous iteration) felt very pragmatic. The amount of time he probably has to have spent on his hair seems like an unreasonable thing for him to go for, when he could just get it cut short in 10 minutes every couple of weeks.

If it turns out that his hair is one of the few luxuries he keeps, that's fine, it would make him seem more human in a way, but it should be remarked on somewhere.

The hair is a really big symbol of change for the character's mindset and makes the character feel really different from the Swain we knew. If that is the goal, ok then. We (or at least I) just think it probably isn't worth dropping that aspect of his character to give him hair that majestically blows in the breeze.

Sorry to pile on, but the way you commented about the hair sounded like you were being dismissive of the player's opinions (which I assume you weren't, just keeping it jovial). The hair is a symbol, and it matters to us.

edit: Wow that is ramble-y. Sorry, a bit sick so I am a bit off as far as putting thoughts together goes.

LíthillyaJan 24, 20184 votes

{quoted}

I'm saying, everyone else in this thread is likely more experienced than me in playing League... but highly experienced players aren't the majority of players. Not by a long way.

And I have to disagree that Swain has been made "more generic". The full champion lore (and his place in Noxus) is far more unique, and "uniquely League" than what existed before, IMO. :-) Also, he totally got a promotion. And people's hair can grow over time. :-P

It does suck that you (and anyone else) feels that your dedication to a champion in the game has been devalued or undermined, and I feel bad for you. But I hope, in time, you'll give the new Grand General another chance to impress and intrigue you.

Just tell us that Beatrice is still part of his lore, and people might be willing to give him more of a chance. Also, personally, I think he's gone from a far more 'subtle' champion to one that's just clearly powerful. A limping old man with a cane is someone people are far more likely to underestimate, than a dude with a glowing demon arm. That was part of his old charm, that he relied entirely on his mind outside of the few instances where he'd used his full caw caw bird powers. And speaking of, why move away from the carrion bird morph? Sure, he still get wings and they look nice and all, but wouldn't the bird form have worked as well, if he's still got the birds as part of his theme? I'm not saying I dislike a fancy pair of wings like he has, I'm just saying that it's far more generic than what he had before. I'm still going to give him a chance, because I love Noxus' lore and their position in the universe, but it still sorta seem like you took one of the more subtle champions in the game and turned him into a far more obvious powerhouse. It was a different approach to the strength that Noxus values so highly. Brain over brawn, as opposed to what they usually do.

Jeddy017Jan 23, 201817 votes

I can already see some of the responses to this. Old Swain fans won't like the idea that their champ was taken away from them to essentially make him more popular.

I know that wasn't the intended goal. But that's what the comment sounds like.

VardenSaladJan 23, 20183 votes

It sounds like that because it is that.

The WhamboozlerJan 23, 20188 votes

A-yep. They do that to plenty of unpopular champs. It's not worth getting invested in any character that isn't mainstream and popular, my dudes. And this is coming as someone who LIKES this new rework (visually. Not sure how I'll like him in-game yet). Unpopular champs are always at risk of being turned into something entirely alien to what they were before... and Riot doesn't give two shits about the handful of fans of said old champs as long as the champ has more mainstream appeal now.

Malicious MetalJan 23, 201811 votes

But that's what every Rework aims for.

Riot doesn't rework champions for their mains, they want to make them A) more Popular and B) fix some of their major flaws like unhealthy designs and poorly aged visuals.

VICKLIUSJan 24, 20181 votes

I'm ok w/ the visuals but they didn't even try to fix his kit to make him more popular(popular= what will win the most, this half attempted kit wont do that)

Malicious MetalJan 24, 20187 votes

Statistically untrue. Popularity isn't directly linked to power level.

Even when underpowered champions like Yasuo, Riven, Lee sin and Jhin have respectable pick rates because they feel impactful, fluid and fun to play to a large majority of the player base.

NefasJan 23, 20187 votes

I hate that argument so much. It’s an argument not for making champs the best versions of themselves but for making them into other champs. It’s a philosophy that stands on a knife’s edge. Sometimes the tidbits that are kept are just enough to tie the new rework to the old champ, sometimes they are not. But the fans of the old champ ought to have more of a say than people who don’t play the champ at all. The problems with this rework that a lot of people are articulating is that this doesn’t look or feel like Swain - it feels like a completely new separate champ. Swain’s old core being, distilled down, was his phrase “let’s morph and eat em” - tied into his full transformation ult. That is surely something you’d agree could be built into a broader, more interesting champ? But it was discarded instead and the right pieces weren’t kept, or not kept in the right way, to complete the link back to old Swain.

HigeJan 23, 20186 votes

Yeah I admit I went for his throat because the title rubbed me off the wrong way.

I can understand why people didn't feel too connected to Swain but I think that there should be a little bit more contempt (from riot) for less than ideal characters, I myself have been a defender of past reworks since I see the point of polishing them to 11 but now looking at the general picture... everyone is starting to look the same, every dude is buff and barely showing age, you seem to overlook the fact that he does look like Vlad and the overlap with fiddlesticks theme just because he now looks cooler

Again, the product is incredible and the story progression (at least from the VO) is superb but the soul of the character was swept away, Swain was flawed but that never stopped him, now he's just another powerful general who doesn't seem in need of cunning to rise up, his cunning is now an added flavor

TèrminusJan 24, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Swain was flawed but that never stopped him, now he's just another powerful general who doesn't seem in need of cunning to rise up, his cunning is now an added flavor.

Are you referring to his leg when you say "flawed"?

This iteration of Swain actually lost an arm (specifically Irelia sliced it off in a fight between them in the Ionian wars, according to Swain himself) instead of just having a damaged leg. From the looks/sounds of it, he solved this problem by subjugating a demon and forging a new arm with its power.

He's no doubt cunning in his machinations behind the scenes, but that doesn't really translate well into gameplay for this kind of game.

HigeJan 24, 20183 votes

not just his leg, he was an old man with less than ideal conditions to rule EXCEPT for his cunning, his brain was his greater weapon and I do understand that it doesn't translate to the game but that's exactly why you keep him flawed, without those he has NO NEED to be cunning and you have to rely on VO to show that he is in fact, still smart

Why would you need to strategize when you can simply force your way through with power (and astonishing looks)

I do think he somehow tricked "beatrice" into giving him power but... it affects the order of events

Old Swain: Never used force to rise, he got around and forged alliances that helped him up, his demon pet was always by his side nurturing his dormant power that he (possibly) wasn't able to use to 100% because his life would falter, age catches up to you even when you use magic so you need to be smart about it

New swain: He forced his way to the top because he tricked a demon? and then commanded the military with his experience and cunning mind into strategical movements throughout the region

which has more depth?

TèrminusJan 24, 20186 votes

{quoted}

Old Swain: Never used force to rise, he got around and forged alliances that helped him up, his demon pet was always by his side nurturing his dormant power that he (possibly) wasn't able to use to 100% because his life would falter, age catches up to you even when you use magic so you need to be smart about it

New swain: He forced his way to the top because he tricked a demon? and then commanded the military with his experience and cunning mind into strategical movements throughout the region

which has more depth?

We don't even have Swain's new lore yet, so I'd hold off on citing a lack of depth.

HigeJan 24, 20182 votes

I have to agree with that since most of this is simply conjecture is based on his visuals, that character in game, he doesn't need to be smart about his moves, his demeanor, his body and his words all speak the dominance language which is interesting on its own but that isn't what Swain used to do

also, if I may ask, what other character in league uses their seemingly fragile figure to trick people into turning their back on him? yeah, no one

TèrminusJan 24, 20186 votes

{quoted}

also, if I may ask, what other character in league uses their seemingly fragile figure to trick people into turning their back on him? yeah, no one

This doesn't actually work, though, because he's the grand general of Noxus, making him one of the most (in)famous and notable people in Runeterra. How many credible opponents are going to not know who he is on appearance alone?

The concept of a seemingly frail individual using their state to trick enemies would be much better done on someone without Swain's sheer notoriety, I think.

GelsominoKillerJan 24, 20182 votes

Don't you think that always and inevitably going for the "badass" and "appealing" character design is a detriment to creativity and quality?

Swain does not limp because it isn't cool. Swain doesn't look old because it isn't cool. Swain must be a frontline fighter because sitting in a tent planning because it isn't cool. [Yorick is now a dark muscular hunk because "nobody wants to be a gravedigger"]

My question is.. are you building a ready-to-cook 12 yo basic animeme wet dream world or an artistic work with some dignity?

SplisionJan 24, 20182 votes

There's more to be being a badass than just being cool. By going to the frontlines to fight and kill the enemies of Noxus himself, Swain inspires admiration and respect from his warbands, and intimidation and fear from his enemies.

What's with the superiority complex? Do you somehow think that just because you like old Swain you're somehow a unique artisitic visionary who can see things that others cannot?

GelsominoKillerJan 24, 20182 votes

The problem is simple: Swain is not an ispirator. He's not sejuani. He's cold, calculator and malicious. Moreover, a frontile fighter might appeal the majority of people, but it makes 0 sense by a narrative standpoint. Noxus is a nation warring on multiple fronts. As for such, its leader (and master tactician) should be in the capital coordinating and moving his armies, not on one particular front "ripping souls out from this enemies" (wow, so coooool!).

And this has nothing to do with the consideration i have of myself, put it is purely observation:

Xerath is now a cookie cutter villain; Diana has killed "by mistake" the elders, and not intentionally in revenge; Poppy isn't ugly-faced yordle anymore; Yorick isn't an outcast creepy hunchback that failed to find a partner; Urgot lost his "fat and repulsive" archetype;

The idea those facts gave me is that Riot's narrative is pushing for pleasing the most people possible.

And to be honest reading their various statements regarding the matter, mine isn't even an "opinion". Look up at the very rioter comment i quoted in this thread:

Swain was a champion who didn't provoke a lot of strong feelings either way, as PE just articulated very clearly. Based on a LOT of player data and feedback, old Swain not particularly interesting to a lot of players. Now there are a lot MORE players who want to find out more.

The changes Swain reiceved were made to make him more generically appealing to the great public. This involves a great narrative risk: if you build your characters not by the story you want to tell, not by your own creativity, not because they fit their personality or the world they live in, but by a merely marketing practice to appeal the minimum common denominator, the quality of your work goes down. And League is going strongly in that direction. And that direction is the same that gives birth to many mediocre, stereotyped anime productions right now.

I hope this explains my words.

Electro522Jan 24, 20185 votes

Scathelock....please.....who's idea was it to add in the Crows that land on terrain around him throughout the game?

Because whoever that was.......they are a god damned genius!

You have yourself a Swain main....I am truly in love with this design.

RiotRiot ScathlockeJan 24, 20182 votes

I actually don't know - I thought it was a great touch though, and a cool nod to the old and new lore. :-)

Illâoi Evê SiônJan 25, 20182 votes

N-notice me, please, senpai

WestTigerJan 24, 20188 votes

Based on a LOT of player data and feedback, old Swain not particularly interesting to a lot of players. Now there are a lot MORE players who want to find out more.

That's because he's always had gameplay issues, well-known to be a lane bully and snowbally, or just flat-out useless after a bad laning phase.

But lore-wise, it wasn't that players were not interested, it's that the original lore was obfuscated and hidden behind other mediums like the Journal of Justice. Then because the JoJ was discontinued for over 3 years, how can you expect players to stay invested when nothing is happening?

Did you also use anecdotal evidence of a few weeks of hype to show interest? Are you serious?

Why wouldn't the existing fanbase on /r/SwainMains or other places NOT show interest with a rework? Why wouldn't they clamber to see what is going to happen for a champ that has been languishing in limbo for 3 years?

You want to congratulate yourself for having the plan to do nothing to lower interest, and then announce something new, and then triumphantly present statistics that surprise surprise, show players are interested in the new thing happening after radio silence for 3 years.

While Riot didn't know what to do with the lore for a while, or how to market it well until recently, I tried. Did you know that, Scathlocke? I made posts 5 years ago, and 3 years ago, trying to help players understand the lore around Swain, because I understood that it was too hard to follow.

I gave up because Riot did nothing all this time. Because I'm just one person, and the big fans are only a few people, with no resources, no ability to affect change, no ability to do anything.

You know the funny thing? I like the rework for the most part. The voiceover is excellent, I love the direction overall, visual design is a mess because the red on black is literally a lesson the Virtual Boy taught years ago to never do and is hard to see. Also Lucius Malfoy.

But right here, it's you Scathlocke, in your capacity as the Lead Narrative Writer, that tells me all I need to know about Riot culture. It's obviously not one worth loving or putting effort into, you don't see fans as nothing more than props and numbers, to manipulate to suit your narrative (heh).

RiotRiot ScathlockeJan 24, 20185 votes

(*Editor, not writer. I don't write anything player-facing at Riot.)

I think you might be making me a focus for pain you've been experiencing for a while. I joined Riot last year, and moved to League as Lead Editor specifically around September. I'm afraid there's nothing I can do about the years where story/lore wasn't served as well as you guys would have liked - I didn't work here, I didn't make those decisions. I've asked around about whether we have a time machine somewhere in the studio, but no one replied to my email.

Instead, I'm going to choose to focus on the fact that you like the Narrative work on Swain (for the most part). I headed up the team that created the teaser video, and I definitely see Swain's new lore as representative of the level and quality of work that players can expect from here onward. That's my area. I don't get to make top-level decisions about what a champion update will include, but I can make sure the lore content around them is the best version our writers and actors can produce, and everything starts to tie together more consistently. I'm all about turning this storytelling ship around, and building the lore up to be bigger and better than it ever was in the past.

But Riot culture is written right there on the website. The manifesto is a simple one - and the players always come first. However, that doesn't mean that nothing will ever change. Nothing out there is ever "as good as it can possibly be", and Riot is in this for the long term, to iterate on a setting and characters that have GLOBAL resonance for millions of players in 20+ languages. That's an aspiration to develop something truly unique and amazing.

Personally, I don't mind Swain's new hair - but I wouldn't advise him AGAINST going to see a barber at some point... :-P

WestTigerJan 25, 20182 votes

{quoted}

(*Editor, not writer. I don't write anything player-facing at Riot.)

I think you might be making me a focus for pain you've been experiencing for a while. I joined Riot last year, and moved to League as Lead Editor specifically around September. I'm afraid there's nothing I can do about the years where story/lore wasn't served as well as you guys would have liked - I didn't work here, I didn't make those decisions. I've asked around about whether we have a time machine somewhere in the studio, but no one replied to my email.

Fair enough, I got your title wrong, my apologies.

I understand you were only employed last year, and I don't blame you specifically for the lack of lore-work that happened over the years, I understand that it's beyond your control. My main issue is with making a statement about player interest and activity with statistics as you did. Those statistics don't just start on the date of your employment.

How long and how broad are the stats you're referring to? Is it only within the last 1-3 years? I am assuming you have background material for Swain when preparing and editing for the new lore, surely you know how long Swain has actually been in the game and that if the timespan of the statistics doesn't match, then you wouldn't be able to see the full context.

Surely checking the background for the statistics you are going to use to back up a statement, would have brought something up? You don't need a 'time machine', just some logical deduction.

Instead, I'm going to choose to focus on the fact that you like the Narrative work on Swain (for the most part). I headed up the team that created the teaser video, and I definitely see Swain's new lore as representative of the level and quality of work that players can expect from here onward. That's my area. I don't get to make top-level decisions about what a champion update will include, but I can make sure the lore content around them is the best version our writers and actors can produce, and everything starts to tie together more consistently. I'm all about turning this storytelling ship around, and building the lore up to be bigger and better than it ever was in the past.

And I appreciate the work you do, don't get me wrong. Like I said, I'm fine with the rework overall, and most of my nitpick so far has been purely cosmetic. Depending on the bios when they release, I may have more misgivings but let's be optimistic till then.

But Riot culture is written right there on the website. The manifesto is a simple one - and the players always come first. However, that doesn't mean that nothing will ever change. Nothing out there is ever "as good as it can possibly be", and Riot is in this for the long term, to iterate on a setting and characters that have GLOBAL resonance for millions of players in 20+ languages. That's an aspiration to develop something truly unique and amazing.

If you mean that the champion designs should resonate with many players, then yes I agree. Yet at the same time, Riot has mentioned that they hope to diversify their roster with non-typical character designs. I am sure many had hoped that Swain remained in that camp, as he once did, being the 'creepy old raven guy'.

Because it is not hard to see current Swain as being the result of focus-testing the 'anime MMO wings' popular in the Asian/China market combined with fangirlism for Lucius Malfoy/Sephiroth.

Personally, I don't mind Swain's new hair - but I wouldn't advise him AGAINST going to see a barber at some point... :-P

I just don't buy that being an aristocrat automatically means he needs long douchebag haircut. Heck, IRL aristocrats also wore powdered wigs and styled their hair, so that's not really a good reason at all. Swain could tie that mullet into a ponytail and bam, long and short hair all at once.

Right now he looks so much like a combination Lucius Malfoy + Vlad von Carstein pre-full-vamp-face-on, that I have seriously been subconsciously referring to him as THAT 'Vlad' since the reveal.