Bilgewater sails out to attack the Black Mist

CupcakeTrap··36 votes·16,381 views

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-vXv-AgxdbDc/Uxnj9H_qfBI/AAAAAAAAInQ/36NPtpaShE0/s1600/Miss-Fortune-League-of-Legends-Wallpaper-full-HD-17.png Not pictured: Bilgewater's most brilliant anti-ghostfog strategist.

1 Year [Ago]. The Battle of Knife Straits. An armada from Bilgewater, led by Miss Fortune and Captain Gangplank – sailing together under an uneasy truce – meets the Black Mist head on. Heavy casualties sustained. Fleet scattered. (Source.)

Yes, attack the ghost-fog with a fleet of ships. Because if there's one thing that works great against both fog and ghosts, it's cannonballs.

A list of things that might work against fog and/or ghosts and/or ghost-fog, in descending order of likely effectiveness:


(1) Demacian clerics (2) Ionian mages (3) Very large fans (4) Holy flamethrowers (5) Zaunite hextech proton packs licensed by ThaumaKorp and its wholly owned subsidiaries (6) The Vivatronic Transamplifier device perfected by inventor-expeditioneer Edgar Fentonborough of Piltover, lately deceased under circumstances most mysterious (7) Twenty-three sugar-crazed yordles with hexplosives and a chanting Mothership Elder (8) Asking Nami to try talking to any of the ghosts who are also fish … (19) A bunch of bookish Summoners who keep saying things like "Fascinating!" and "Remarkable!" … (44) The mediation sessions with the Shadow Isles that those Summoners keep suggesting … (162) Saying how sorry you are for murdering all those people, Gangplank … (297) Lots of boats … (655) Guns, some of which may be hextech revolvers … (717) Assorted citrus fruits … (808) Rodents of unusual size … (921) Swords that aren't magical … (3,995) An uneasy truce … (8,424) Cannonballs


Seriously, was I the only one that found that part kind of odd?

65 Comments

Alljoy19 votes

They should've called the GhostBusters.

LupusNox12 votes

They crossed streams

hence the heavily cassualties

CupcakeTrap6 votes

They should've called the GhostBusters.

For example.

(5) Zaunite hextech proton packs licensed by ThaumaKorp and its wholly owned subsidiaries

I want to write something for Factions about Zaunite ghostbusters running around during the Harrowing trying to use techmaturgic energy beams to trap ghosts.

Alljoy4 votes

Sounds like it would make a wonderful read.

CupcakeTrap3 votes

Sounds like it would make a wonderful read.

Thank you! And on that note, maybe I should spend less time on the Boards and more time actually writing it. But yeah, I think Zaun has a fun, zany, exciting side that sometimes gets neglected in favor of its scary Singed war-machine aspect.

RiotWookieeCookie15 votes

The Disclaimer - Non Lore-Rioter; I'm not anymore in the loop about the story's direction then you guys are. Just here for the discussion. :P


Has it been stated specifically what the Black Mist is? From what I've gauged through the timeline that you linked and the Harrowing video that was released, the Black Mist appears during the event, but is not necessarily the principle "threat" of the Shadow Isles.

It seems to me that the Black Mist is an omen or sign. You don't have to worry about the Black Mist grabbing you and stealing your soul; no it is what's hiding within it that should frighten you.

For the shadow isles creatures within there are some immediate benefits:

  • They can keep their total #'s hidden or out of sight on the approach.
  • The fog's mere appearance can frighten/intimidate victims as it creeps up and surrounds them.
  • If fighting occurs, they can use the fog to their advantage to catch warriors by surprise.
  • If they try to kidnap someone the fog makes it easier for them to make their escape.

The Harrowing seems like it has largely been a local problem in Valoran rather than a global one. The timeline you linked goes back 30 years and it seems that it's been growing, but only slowly. From our outsider perspective it seems likely that the Harrowing would eventually expand well past Bilgewater. But it's completely possible that other Factions or City States just don't think it's a priority, or that they even believe it's anything more than the hearsay of drunken sailors. It's not like the people of Bilgewater are the most reliable bunch out there.

That could explain why it was only Miss Fortune and Gangplank who were able to muster any forces against it. Maybe now that the battle was a failure resulting in heavy casualties other regions will start to take it a bit more seriously. Or maybe, they'll be happy that there's a few less brigands and pirates they have to worry about; ignoring the fact that those brigands or pirates might come back in an undead form... but hey, that's nothing they have to worry about right now... right?

CupcakeTrap12 votes

WookieeCookie! ♥ I wuv you.

In case it wasn't clear, this post was meant mostly for comedic value, but it's true, I can't help but bring some more serious observations into it as well, and this thread has had some more serious geopolitical (and literary) debating going on, so fair enough. (There's also some bitterness on my part for the Great Retcon and Narrative's continuing reliance on shock reveals. I'm also a bit annoyed because, although I think the Black Mist is pretty cool, it's been troublesome integrating it into Factions when Narrative is so freaking coy about what it is—it's like I have to write the story with flex-room in case next week they release something that completely reframes it.)

So, here's a more serious response.

tl;dr: I much prefer the video's version of the Black Mist (spookiness happens during the Harrowing) to the timeline's version (it's basically a military invasion by the Shadow Isles).

Has it been stated specifically what the Black Mist is?

I think it's quite plausible that the Black Mist does contain a bunch of skeletons, zombies, and other monsters against whom cannonballs would be pretty effective. I will say that their coyness continues to frustrate me here: the "timeline" they posted is much more vague than I'd expect. Surely someone would mention, "and oh yeah, the mist was full of zombies, that's what killed Steve; remember Steve? Poor guy. Yeah, eaten by zombies last year." But if it's an army you can fight, then why is a motley crew of pirates the best you can do, Valoran? (Maybe surprise?)

From our outsider perspective it seems likely that the Harrowing would eventually expand well past Bilgewater. But it's completely possible that other Factions or City States just don't think it's a priority, or that they even believe it's anything more than the hearsay of drunken sailors.

Surely Bilgewater's delegates to the League would say something about it to other nations. (Yes, that's me being defiant. No blog post can destroy the League of Legends.) But regardless, it's one thing to brush aside some spooky tales about "you know Roger's girlfriend, Patricia? Well, he tells me she swears on her life that her ol' aunt Sally got turned into a zombie last Harrowing when she went out sailing with her friend Ron." It's quite another to ignore the fact that suddenly thousands and thousands of people are dead and dozens of ships are destroyed, after witnesses say they saw Miss Fortune and Gangplank make a truce and sail off to destroy an undead horde.

I mean, sure, the situation might be such that nobody can spare the manpower to help Bilgewater, but that's again taking us down this path to a really bleak and isolated Valoran, a painful contrast to the vividly interactive and collaborative world of League's lore as we know it.

I really think it works better if the Black Mist is some kind of eerie, intangible force, more a force of nature than an army with smoke-screen cover. All kinds of eerie stuff happens during the Harrowing, but the battle is being fought in the spirit world, not with cannonballs and cutlasses.

If we're saying that Bilgewater gets an extra-strong dose of spookiness during the Harrowing, then I'd say that the reason Demacia isn't doing anything about it is that it really can't. (Maybe they tried valiantly and failed, years ago.) They don't have the ethereal ties to Bilgewater that would give their magic the oomph needed to drive back the Mist. (In contrast, they probably can make Demacia itself pretty safe, by channeling the strength of all those generations of honorable and pure Demacians.) That makes less sense if you assume the Black Mist is full of skeleton warriors; maybe the concern is just that they'd be fighting in a hostile environment and it would be a great way to get a lot of Demacians killed in a Teutoburg Forest-esque disaster. (Demacian courage has its limits; dying far from home in the midst of an undead assault is a pretty nightmarish prospect.)

RiotCarnival Knights15 votes

I can add a little context here.

Like everything else on the Shadow Isles, the Black Mist was at one point a lot less black (it might not have even been a mist, though no one's old enough to remember). With the corruption of the Islands it transformed into the Black Mist, which is now a kind of traversal mechanism for the growing number of ghosts/spirits/creatures that inhabit SI. They can 'hitch a ride' on the mists, as it were, and travel inside them to populated areas brimming with unharrowed souls - souls which the things that inhabit SI are preternaturally drawn to. The mist only comes off the island during The Harrowing, though no one yet knows why.

The Mists are a local problem, but they're a growing local problem - every year the mists get bigger as more and more people/things are consumed and integrated by the Isles. Like Graves said in that bookend piece, the mists are likely powerful enough to travel anywhere at this point, not just the closest most populated region (Bilgewater for you cartography fans). That means far-flung population centers like Demacia, Piltover, and even Shurima are all potentially at risk. And while concentrated drives against the things lurking around in the mists can kinda-sorta repel the stuff (thus decreasing the spread and therefore the risk), it only staves off the threat for so long.

So in conclusion, no, it's not a military invasion. It's more like an El Niño... full of skeletons.

Skel Niño.

Tortferngatr2 votes

Hmm. Has anyone attempted to capture a Harrowed soul (in order to study the Black Mist) and have any crazy Zaunite or Piltovian techmaturgists attempted to study the Mists in hope to replicate the "traveling" properties of the mists in normal beings (maybe as a public transit system?)

CupcakeTrap5 votes

Thank you! This is quite helpful. (I've been holding off on my Factions "Harrowing" update in part because I've been busy, but also in part because I felt I had to speculate a lot about how the new Harrowing works, and I might end up having to scrap whatever I wrote later when new info came out.)

I do have a couple related questions. I'll understand if you can't answer them, but it would likewise be valuable information. (And interesting!)

(1) Is it safe to say that, even where the Black Mist doesn't reach, Valoran gets generally spookier during the Harrowing? More paranormal activity? Thinner boundaries between the realms of the living and of the dead?

Here's what I put into a quickie preface to the more involved lore piece I'm writing (actually just a throwaway update to "frame" the Harrowing vid in the Factions universe), framed as a merchant drumming up business in the halls of the Institute:

The Harrowing approaches. Across Valoran, family and friends gather for feasts, riotous parties, games, and late night chats that go on until daybreak.

But you, learned Summoners, you know why this is so: why so many nations’ traditions insist that, whatever you do, the Harrowing is no time to be alone. The astrological charts and manaflow equations from your Tenth Level studies at the Institute made it plain enough: the sun is the source of all life on Runeterra, and fall the gentle old age of its seasonal cycle, which turns anxious as the deathly chill of winter creeps along the branches. At this convergence of cycle and cycle, the souls of the restless dead recall their own final fading, that moment when life’s warmth drained away for the last time.

All you Summoners and Champions who have killed, beware this gathering of spirits, for they have not forgotten you in death. All you who now pry into the ruined vaults of Nyroth, seeking the mysteries of their tortured dead, beware what you may find! Oh, you say that you have heard all this before. But is this not the first Harrowing since Discord forever tore the veil between the world of the dead and our own? Yes, you would do well to prepare yourself for what may come, whether in the sanctified halls of Demacia, or the mighty fortresses of Noxus, or within the resplendent walls of the Institute, or amidst the savage wilderness of Nyroth.

We also observe that for but a handful of inedible coppers you can treat yourself to one of these delicious cookies, including some shaped in a most whimsical caricature of High Councilor Kolminye herself! They’re baked fresh here at the Institute by authentic Bandle City confectioneers from the Happy Friends Bakery.

(Source.)

Obviously, you're not with me on the Summoners part, but does that combination of festivity and spookiness seem in keeping with the new Harrowing lore?

Other things I'm planning:

  • Zaunites with hextech "proton packs" running around trying to catch ghosts in Zaun
  • The old battlefields of Ionia filling with the spirits of slain Noxians and Ionians

I understand if you're hesitant to get Word of God here, but does that sound vaguely plausible?

(2) Why hasn't anyone come to help Bilgewater? If spooky monsters descend on Bilgewater every year, why hasn't someone sent help? Bilgewater's probably got a lot of cachet through its mercantile activities (Zaun? Pilt?), and its privateering (Noxus?), and Demacia can usually be counted on to come to the rescue when dark forces approach.

I can think of lots of reasons why they might not have, or why they might have failed when they've tried, but I'd be curious to get your thoughts, whether "Word of God" or speculative.

(3) How bad is it? A final question: I'm wondering to what extent Champions (Bilgewater and otherwise) would be focused on the Mist. If you talked to MF right now, would she be in crisis mode, or just on edge? What about (say) Lux? Or Karma? In Piltover, is this front-page news, or a sidenote?

Shíny2 votes

So the undead of the shadow isles use the mist as a travel method for visiting the living during the harrowing. When the harrowing is over the black mist is just hanging around the SI? Are the undead still able to use it for getting around the isles? is yorick still a ferryman?

Diahane4 votes

The Disclaimer - Non Lore-Rioter; I'm not anymore in the loop about the story's direction then you guys are. Just here for the discussion. :P


Has it been stated specifically what the Black Mist is? From what I've gauged through the timeline that you linked and the Harrowing video that was released, the Black Mist appears during the event, but is not necessarily the principle "threat" of the Shadow Isles.

It seems to me that the Black Mist is an omen or sign. You don't have to worry about the Black Mist grabbing you and stealing your soul; no it is what's hiding within it that should frighten you.

For the shadow isles creatures within there are some immediate benefits:

  • They can keep their total #'s hidden or out of sight on the approach.
  • The fog's mere appearance can frighten/intimidate victims as it creeps up and surrounds them.
  • If fighting occurs, they can use the fog to their advantage to catch warriors by surprise.
  • If they try to kidnap someone the fog makes it easier for them to make their escape.

The Harrowing seems like it has largely been a local problem in Valoran rather than a global one. The timeline you linked goes back 30 years and it seems that it's been growing, but only slowly. From our outsider perspective it seems likely that the Harrowing would eventually expand well past Bilgewater. But it's completely possible that other Factions or City States just don't think it's a priority, or that they even believe it's anything more than the hearsay of drunken sailors. It's not like the people of Bilgewater are the most reliable bunch out there.

That could explain why it was only Miss Fortune and Gangplank who were able to muster any forces against it. Maybe now that the battle was a failure resulting in heavy casualties other regions will start to take it a bit more seriously. Or maybe, they'll be happy that there's a few less brigands and pirates they have to worry about; ignoring the fact that those brigands or pirates might come back in an undead form... but hey, that's nothing they have to worry about right now... right?

You make a lot of good points, but I think that the OP's one was, behind the humour, more about how if the Black Mist were to actually be just some Shadow Isles' technical device to get an edge in battles as you speculate, then it would be kind of disappointing because the whole Shadow Isles thing would go from "spooky ethereal, unnatural and unfathomable (maybe eldritch) horror" to "the spooky nation of spookyness marching into war". It's not that it's bad per se, but that would make the Shadow Isles faction a lot like the orcs of Sauron in LOTR, they would just be your typical evil and ugly guys enforcing the whole καλὸς καὶ ἀγαθός trope in and indirect manner. That would be a wasted opportunity imho, because there was a lot of potential for the Shadow Isles to be unearthly spooky, opposed to an army of undead and wretched things which can be bashed and shot.

Of course all this the Ruined King background notwithstanding, which still would remain an eventual cool plot point to explore, but the consequences of such possibly cool story would be your average evil faction and that would make it even more disappointing, given the premises.

P.S: Thank you for hopping on the Story & Art boards!

CupcakeTrap2 votes

καλὸς καὶ ἀγαθός

I have to admit, my Greek is not up to par.

<Me> "Kalos kai ayathos? Kalos kai agathos? Pretty and something?"

I had to google that. But yes. I think the "army of the dead" trope can work great, but it shouldn't be the totality of SI's theme. The Harrowing in particular has such rich cultural traditions to draw upon, and is so good as setup for subtle, nuanced, otherworldly stories, that "spooooooooky smokescreen for evil monsters" feels like a letdown.

Diahane4 votes

καλὸς καὶ ἀγαθός

I have to admit, my Greek is not up to par.

<Me> "Kalos kai ayathos? Kalos kai agathos? Pretty and something?"

I had to google that. But yes. I think the "army of the dead" trope can work great, but it shouldn't be the totality of SI's theme. The Harrowing in particular has such rich cultural traditions to draw upon, and is so good as setup for subtle, nuanced, otherworldly stories, that "spooooooooky smokescreen for evil monsters" feels like a letdown.

Actually, I don't know Greek either, I remembered this locution because it's an important concept in ancient Greek literature I studied at school back in the days. I had to check the correct spelling, otherwise I could have cited the phonetic of it only =P This apart, it stands for something along the lines of "good and handsome" and it's something we still find in more recent times. It's definitely not the standard nowadays, but in more traditional works you can usually notice it. It amounts to the good guys being the handsome ones, while, as a corollary, the bad guys are ugly. An example of this could be the usual generic fantasy setting in which the elves are beautiful, elegant and morally good, as opposed to orcs, goblins and trolls which are evil, ugly and stupid. In ancient times, beauty was sometimes viewed as a sign of virtue, while uglyness or deformities as signs of evil: thus the latin saying cave a signatis ("beware of those who are marked", meaning those who are "crippled" in a certain sense), for instance.

I may have oversimplified the whole thing of course and there could be a whole lot of lost in translations, since I'm not used to discuss this kind of things in english, but that's what I meant xP

Besides, if we went further in analysing LoL, we can see an instance of this "trope" in the design of Noxus and Demacia. The early Noxus was portrayed as a city on a promontory clearly resembling a skull and we have Sion and Urgot as Noxians, while there are no shady or outright ugly Demacian characters (Poppy is a yordle, otherwise she would qualify twice: for the base splash and the Lollipoppy one!), hinting at their moral system. Obviously, things are not that simple, there is the femme fatale trope too, which gives us gorgeous (but deadly) ladies for Noxus and of course the Noxus aesthetic evolved a whole lot from that naive start. Riven is a good example of going beyond this schemes and delivering something more refined.

Jungle Lux God9 votes

(3) Very large fans

Dang it, I knew Karma shouldn't have had a visual rework!

Her old fans were the key to stopping this Black Mist!

Hyrum Graff5 votes

I'm a very large karma fan!

Desmond Law8 votes

69 - Get Arhi to soul suck the ghosts

666 - Get Aatrox to turn the tide of battle. I mean, it is the whole point of his lore, to turn the tide of battle.

1337- Get Phreak to deal tons of damage.

9001- Giving your midlaner blue

CupcakeTrap6 votes

69 - Get Arhi to soul suck the ghosts

Rowrrr.

666 - Get Aatrox to turn the tide of battle. I mean, it is the whole point of his lore, to turn the tide of battle.

As I say in pretty much every Factions lore event when a faction's Summoners vote on whether or not to accept Aatrox's offer…what's the worst that could happen?

1337- Get Phreak to deal tons of damage.

He's just one Summoner, but this is a pretty legit option.

9001- Giving your midlaner blue

I love that meme, but giving your midlaner blue is clearly more likely to solve the problem than cannonballs.

Zulgaines7 votes

This is like the Runeterra version of sending troops to fight Ebola.

Motajo3 votes

sending troops to fight Ebola.

I can't stop thinking of a regiment of troops open-firing on a napkin some Ebola patient sneezed into.

Darth Pixy Misa7 votes

All that loss of life could have been avoided if Helmet Bro was there.

Valaran Nara6 votes

Sounds like a "last ditch" effort of some sort to keep it from hitting the mainland. That, and in all honesty, the Black Mist may also carry a bunch of spooks that needed to be eradicated. I mean, have you seen how Heca jumped out of the darkness and landed on the ship. I'm sorry, but he wasn't riding on a raft, that's for sure.

ShadowKnight12246 votes

I was extremely disappointed to read that the Black Mist was expanding and getting stronger and stronger. I really hate it when writers can't value moderation and small-scale threats. Good writers can make any type of threat interesting to read about. If you put sufficient effort and care into it, you can make something like an office worker who gets a computer crash something compelling to read.

The Black Mist didn't have to be some world-menacing catastrophe. In fact, it would have made a lot more sense to keep it located to Bilgewater and the occasional disruption to another city state's mercantile affairs. It would explain why people from Bilgewater are so disdainful of the other city states and why they are so cavalier about piracy, robbery and the like. I can buy Bilgewater being a rancorous, opportunistic faction that actively enjoys stealing from the other city states precisely because they are the ones losing good men and women every Harrowing while the rest of the world couldn't care less.

And it would be such an interesting and realistic vicious circle, where the pirates prey on the other city states because they won't help against the Harrowing and the other city states refuse to send help because "good riddance to those pirates."

catraven5 votes

(7) Twenty-three sugar-crazed yordles with hexplosives and a chanting Mothership Elder

loled.....nice op.

Xulsigae4 votes

It's the 'Fight the Intangible Force With Tangible Weapons' Trope.

Lord Dusteon3 votes

To be fair, they also had swords and guns.

CupcakeTrap3 votes

To be fair, they also had swords and guns.

List updated.

(655) Guns … (717) Assorted citrus fruits … (3,221) Swords that aren't magical

LordHippoman3 votes

Gangplank and MF beat the living crap out of ghosts, zombies, robots, monkeys, Yordles, and a belligerent drunk man pretty much everyday in the League. I wouldn't bet against them.

Although since that doesn't really count anymore it is a bit silly. But hey, the Shadow Isles seem to use mostly corporeal soldiers if Hecarim and Morde are anything to go by.

And seriously never doubt the Plank. The guy had chest hair coming up to his chin in his old splash.

CupcakeTrap4 votes

Like I said elsewhere: mostly just having fun with this post, but it's not entirely in jest. I think turning the Black Mist into a zombie invasion is much less interesting than framing it as a cosmic event that blurs the planes together for a few weeks.

JevelFaithful3 votes

I have to say : +1 for the holy flamethrower

The Soulforged2 votes

o I meant the list

CupcakeTrap3 votes

o I meant the list

Oh! Me, I guess.

Hellioning1 votes

I think that 'the black mist' isn't literally a black mist, but some kind of fleet of ghost ships. So still in the 'kind of stupid' camp of meeting it head on with fleet of non-ghost ships, but that sort of thing shows up all the time in pirate-y media. I'm not too angry about it.

CupcakeTrap7 votes

I think that 'the black mist' isn't literally a black mist, but some kind of fleet of ghost ships. So still in the 'kind of stupid' camp of meeting it head on with fleet of non-ghost ships, but that sort of thing shows up all the time in pirate-y media. I'm not too angry about it.

I'm mostly just joking around here, but I do have some more "serious" gripes about this. My principal objection is that they're implying the Black Mist as more of a zombie invasion rather than an All Hallow's Eve or O-Bon sort of event during which spirits return.

Miss Fortune and Gangplank teaming up to sail boats at the Black Mist doesn't really make a lot of sense in either case, though. I'd envisioned the Black Mist as something that happens throughout Valoran, if not all of Runeterra. I also picture it as something less obviously "aggressive" and more eerie. If you make it a localized zombie invasion, then this is just time for Bilgewater to call in favors with Noxus or Demacia and hack some zombies up.

Hellioning14 votes

I think you've put more thought into this than Riot did.

Yes, you would THINK that Blige would send for help; I'm sure Lucian wouldn't mind working with pirates if it means he gets to rekill dead things. But that wouldn't make for a good event, now would it? Who would want to read about different factions actually interacting?

CupcakeTrap12 votes

I think you've put more thought into this than Riot did.

Yes, you would THINK that Blige would send for help; I'm sure Lucian wouldn't mind working with pirates if it means he gets to rekill dead things. But that wouldn't make for a good event, now would it? Who would want to read about different factions actually interacting?

That's the other thing. The new "universe" Narrative is constructing, off in its corner isolated from League of Legends itself, seems very fragmented and lonely. You don't get the impression that Garen has any clue who Karma is, or that he'd lift a finger to help Ionia. It's this very dour, solitary setting where everyone's just mumbling to themselves alone. There's certainly no international forum where people from all nations can meet to cooperate, communicate, scheme, backstab, argue, or plot adventures. There's no hint of the international politics which are (IMO) one of the few unique traits of League of Legends as a fantasy universe. (Sci-fi does that all the time; fantasy much less so.) Not that originality is necessary: LoL has very, very little originality, but it works fine. Still, it's good to have at least a little.

I guess they want to introduce the factions separately, before having interactions. But that just amplifies another aspect of Narrative's work that I find highly problematic: this aggressive "blank slate" approach. Not only is it weird from a "realistic" standpoint that these factions don't know each other hundreds if not thousands of years after their founding, but it's contrary to established lore, not merely its particular events but its overall feel. The League universe is an interconnected universe. This new Narrative-run Runeterra is very much not.

There are other examples. For instance, I point to Azir as an example of how the League enables and enriches plots. Without the League, I see no reason why Noxus hasn't marched into Shurima to beat Azir up for his lunch money. "Oooh, so you've uncovered all these ancient Shuriman artifacts, huh? Cool. We'll take those. Oh, you've got a problem with that? Ask Demacia for help. They'll take everything that looks 'dangerous', then enforce Demacian law on you." In contrast, a League that respects national self-determination would be the sort of supranational entity that might give a resurgent Shuriman state a shot at survival and independence. Azir would still have to fight hard to keep Noxus, a founding League member-state, at bay, but he'd have a shot.

Narasimha2 votes

I'd wager that Noxus isn't even aware of Azir at the moment. We'll have to get Cass's full lore to find out, but it seems pretty likely she wasn't around to find that the Birdman came back.

CupcakeTrap7 votes

I'd wager that Noxus isn't even aware of Azir at the moment. We'll have to get Cass's full lore to find out, but it seems pretty likely she wasn't around to find that the Birdman came back.

Sure, and this is also how we've kept the issue from rising up during the current Factions arc: we actually have it as a running joke that Azir is wandering around the desert mumbling to himself, and that while people are vaguely aware he's there, he's not taken very seriously. He's just another ascended Shuriman with delusions of grandeur. The League universe is chock full of Champions and heroes; he's impressive to us, but in the League universe everyone and their mom is an ancient emperor or whatever. He's not seriously claiming to be in the League to revive Shurima, anymore than Nasus or Renekton are. (Yet.)

But the second he starts getting serious, that's going to change. The day he kicks the Ezreal types out and declares that he's rebuilding the Shuriman Empire, it's going to get real spicy. The League provides the framework that explains how he can do that and not be instantly crushed.

Now, as you say, maybe they're going further with it and claiming that people literally don't know he exists. That's kind of eyebrow-raising. I'm not dodging that wide in Factions, because I think we should embrace the challenge of explaining why people can select him in solo queue now. Whether he's being overlooked or simply not seen at all, they'll have to move past that stage at some point.

Maybe they'll follow it up with a handwave that has an entire Shuriman Empire just appear, fully formed, overnight. But I think it's much more interesting if he really has to fight to secure Shurima's place in the new Valoran, and the League's framework provides a way to do that, by providing the international norms of self-determination that would allow a small-time civ to survive without allying itself with a great power. (This isn't a big deal for Bandle City or Piltover; they're not out to rule the world anyway, and they don't mind expressly allying themselves with Demacia. Same with Zaun and Noxus. But I feel like Azir would not be okay with that solution: he wants a truly independent Shurima, not sidekick status.)

Motajo5 votes

I think you've put more thought into this than Riot did.

I have a feeling this is a recurring theme.

Narasimha2 votes

While it would be a good idea in theory, a bit of thinking gives us some insight. So imagine Gondor Bilgewater called for aid. Who would be most likely to answer? Demacia and Noxus. Ionia is probably still dealing with the aftermath of their invasion, and the Freljord isn't quite that united yet. Piltover might lend a hand, though I don't think theres enough in it to get Zaun interested. Regardless, its Demacia and Noxus that are the major parties of interest. The main issue here is: If one side sends forces, whats to stop the other from using that to their advantage? Say Demacia sends 1/4 of its troops as aid. Noxus uses this as an opportunity to strike a deadly blow at Demacia. Remember, no more IoW to say "No. Don't do that. Play nicely." I'd actually say this is an interesting way in which the lack of the Institute does help foster a more intriguing world. As to Lucian, I suspect rather than fighting the Black Mist itself, he'd be hunting for its cause.

CupcakeTrap6 votes

If one side sends forces, whats to stop the other from using that to their advantage? Say Demacia sends 1/4 of its troops as aid. Noxus uses this as an opportunity to strike a deadly blow at Demacia.

Well, first off, I don't think they need troops; they need magical support.

But let's say they did need to send troops. Noxus isn't going to attack just because some of their troops are deployed elsewhere. A war between Demacia and Noxus would be a world war very quickly. Piltover, Zaun, Bandle City, the Freljord; it'd be huge. Valoran would explode, perhaps literally.

I'm not buying that that the absence of (say) a quarter of their troops would so weaken Demacia that Noxus could steamroll them before Demacia could redeploy. If we're talking about an invasion of Demacia itself, that's a huge ordeal that would involve fighting through many layers of fortifications; it's not about +/- 25% troop strength for a few days. If we're talking about other territories, like one of Demacia's allies, then yes, Noxus could probably use this as a window of opportunity.

Why Noxus wouldn't do that:

  • Bilgewater is their ally. It would look awful bad if Noxus backstabbed Demacia, or one of its allies, while Demacia came to Bilgewater's aid.
  • Who's an even bigger ally of Noxus? Zaun. The megacorp state focused primarily on commerce and trade. They need Noxus for protection from Piltover and Demacia, and to some extent from Ionia, but they really need Bilgewater to move their merchandise. The instant this happens, a dozen Zaunite megacorp execs are going to be in front of the High Command telling them they had better do something to help Bilgewater—with "backstabbing the state that does go and help Bilgewater" as the polar opposite of what they want. They aren't going to buy a Noxian response along the lines of "aww, but we really need that little strip of farmland between us and Demacia." No, Noxus, that's not how we play this game. You are risking catastrophe to score a minor victory and satisfy your grudge.
  • If Demacia helps, and Noxus doesn't, it might well tip Bilgewater into Demacia's sphere of influence pretty powerfully. (Where were you when we needed you, Noxus? These Demacians are squares, but they came to help. We're on their side now.) If Noxus attacked Demacia in the interim, you can bet that when those Demacian troops came back to join the war, they'd be backed up with fleets of Bilgewater ships.

Remember, no more IoW to say "No. Don't do that. Play nicely." I'd actually say this is an interesting way in which the lack of the Institute does help foster a more intriguing world.

DEAD TO ME.

Kidding. But I do disagree.

The description above works about the same with or without the IoW/League. The only difference is that with the League Demacia's allies might be faster to respond, and Noxus's allies slower to respond, because Noxus would be violating a clearer set of rules, with a bureaucracy to remind everyone of those rules. The Institute itself can't stop Noxus; what would stop Noxus would be other factions going "screw you, you're trying to start another Rune War so you can snatch up some land, we're not going over the cliff with you."

All the ceremony and ritual aside, the League is basically just a representation of a greater international consensus against starting huge wars.

Narasimha1 votes

Well, first off, I don't think they need troops; they need magical support

I meant troops as in the general sending of personnel. Mages could well be included.

I'm not buying that that the absence of (say) a quarter of their troops would so weaken Demacia that Noxus could steamroll them before Demacia could redeploy. If we're talking about an invasion of Demacia itself, that's a huge ordeal that would involve fighting through many layers of fortifications; it's not about +/- 25% troop strength for a few days. If we're talking about other territories, like one of Demacia's allies, then yes, Noxus could probably use this as a window of opportunity.

Oh don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Noxus could take over everything in one fell swoop. But as it stands, it seems that Noxus and Demacia are pretty neck and neck. ANY loss of power could mean a loss of some territory to the other side.

Bilgewater is their ally. It would look awful bad if Noxus backstabbed Demacia, or one of its allies, while Demacia came to Bilgewater's aid. If Demacia helps, and Noxus doesn't, it might well tip Bilgewater into Demacia's sphere of influence pretty powerfully. (Where were you when we needed you, Noxus? These Demacians are squares, but they came to help. We're on their side now.) If Noxus attacked Demacia in the interim, you can bet that when those Demacian troops came back to join the war, they'd be backed up with fleets of Bilgewater ships.

I could go for this actually. Then again, I'm no politician, it'd really be the Noxian High Council weighing the benefits and risks. Based on previous data, would the Bilgewater fleet survive? Would it be worth sending troops at all? Is there anything we can gain from the situation? And so on and so forth.

CupcakeTrap5 votes

Oh don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Noxus could take over everything in one fell swoop. But as it stands, it seems that Noxus and Demacia are pretty neck and neck. ANY loss of power could mean a loss of some territory to the other side.

Only if they're willing to launch a serious attack, and that's a very chancy proposition. Demacia deploying some troops to Bilgewater would be a really poor choice of time for such an assault. Any halfway-neutral party would be going, "Geeze, they sent some troops to help your ally—whom you're abandoning—against an evil undead onslaught, and so you attacked them?" Surely they'd invent some sort of casus belli, but whatever rationale they could muster would be washed out by this awful context.

Contrast the war in Shon-Xan from Factions. That was less about Demacia and more about Ionia, but IMO that's the sort of opportunity Noxus might look for. There, Noxus had a pretty genuine argument that Ionia was violating international law by refusing these poor refugees. (Granted, everyone knew the High Command didn't care about the refugees, except as an excuse for another war…but it muddied the waters pretty seriously. I mean, Exhibit A, starving children being turned away from Ionia's shores after being displaced by, what was that? Oh yeah, that time when Noxus took the brunt of the Void assault and saved Valoran from being eaten by Cho'gath.)

The Noxian advantage: Demacia will sometimes let its guard down for do-gooder reasons, and it can exploit that. (The Black Mist is just not a particularly good opportunity.)

The Demacian advantage: Every time Demacia risks itself to help others, it gains friends and deepens its allies' trust. People know that, even though it may mean risking its own safety, Demacia will be there when you need them. That pays dividends which can rival the value of sneak attacks.

Impetual8 votes

This makes sense...

It's almost as if Riot's Narrative isn't thinking things through before implementing changes!

Diana x Me2 votes

This makes sense...

It's almost as if Riot's Narrative isn't thinking things through before implementing changes!

As if they actually think or put thought into anything at all. Evidence suggests they do things blindly and destroy things like a bull in a China shop.

Chromatic Eagle1 votes

I think that 'the black mist' isn't literally a black mist, but some kind of fleet of ghost ships. So still in the 'kind of stupid' camp of meeting it head on with fleet of non-ghost ships, but that sort of thing shows up all the time in pirate-y media. I'm not too angry about it.

I'm mostly just joking around here, but I do have some more "serious" gripes about this. My principal objection is that they're implying the Black Mist as more of a zombie invasion rather than an All Hallow's Eve or O-Bon sort of event during which spirits return.

Miss Fortune and Gangplank teaming up to sail boats at the Black Mist doesn't really make a lot of sense in either case, though. I'd envisioned the Black Mist as something that happens throughout Valoran, if not all of Runeterra. I also picture it as something less obviously "aggressive" and more eerie. If you make it a localized zombie invasion, then this is just time for Bilgewater to call in favors with Noxus or Demacia and hack some zombies up.

I think you're trying too hard to look at it as a Day of the Dead event. Also you may be downplaying how threatening these ghosts/zombies are. As for why they don't ask for help? Do you really want to trust Noxus anywhere near your city after Ionia? Even Demacia after the Kalamanda incident. Until they retell Ionia's invasion, my headcanon is that Demacia just doesn't care about the other cities unless they get something out of protecting them.

CupcakeTrap4 votes

I think you're trying too hard to look at it as a Day of the Dead event.

Why not both? Have a spookier, subtler Harrowing—still dangerous, but not an actual invasion in most place—and then have Hecarim sending out the mist to build his army of the undead in Bilgewater. (Though even for an undead type, he's taking his damn time. What a wuss.)

Until they retell Ionia's invasion, my headcanon is that Demacia just doesn't care about the other cities unless they get something out of protecting them.

Which is part of what I was getting at in another comment: this new Runeterra that Narrative is trying to sell us feels uncharacteristically disconnected and bleak.

That's the other thing. The new "universe" Narrative is constructing, off in its corner isolated from League of Legends itself, seems very fragmented and lonely. You don't get the impression that Garen has any clue who Karma is, or that he'd lift a finger to help Ionia. It's this very dour, solitary setting where everyone's just mumbling to themselves alone. There's certainly no international forum where people from all nations can meet to cooperate, communicate, scheme, backstab, argue, or plot adventures. There's no hint of the international politics which are (IMO) one of the few unique traits of League of Legends as a fantasy universe. (Sci-fi does that all the time; fantasy much less so.) Not that originality is necessary: LoL has very, very little originality, but it works fine. Still, it's good to have at least a little.

I guess they want to introduce the factions separately, before having interactions. But that just amplifies another aspect of Narrative's work that I find highly problematic: this aggressive "blank slate" approach. Not only is it weird from a "realistic" standpoint that these factions don't know each other hundreds if not thousands of years after their founding, but it's contrary to established lore, not merely its particular events but its overall feel. The League universe is an interconnected universe. This new Narrative-run Runeterra is very much not.

Demacia holing up by itself and refusing requests for help from others? That isn't Demacia. Demacia has its faults, but cowardice isn't one of them. They're knights in shining armor; one of the few factions who will help you just because it's the right thing to do.

Valaran Nara2 votes

You also forgot the Ghostbusters. Couldn't they have helped? I mean, I'm sure Big Puff would be there. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0pnTm-KK9k

CupcakeTrap2 votes

You also forgot the Ghostbusters. Couldn't they have helped? I mean, I'm sure Big Puff would be there. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0pnTm-KK9k

Well…

(5) Zaunite hextech proton packs licensed by ThaumaKorp and its wholly owned subsidiaries

Doesn't that count?

Diana x Me1 votes

Just saying. The sun is not the source of all life. Have you ever heard of hydrothermal vent worms aka. Riftia pachyptila?

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