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What is peoples insane obsession for morally grey characters?

Skorch··17 votes·3,038 views

I dont understand. Completely.

We are the discussion again because of Morganas small-level bio rework, for those who havent seen it: "Driven by vindictive obsession, Morgana is a potent mistress of suffering and the black arts. Once a being of grace and light, she was ripped from her kind during an ancient conflict that broke her soul, turning her into the cruel tormentor she is today. Comforted by a prophecy that claims she will strike the final blow and gain her revenge, Morgana lies in wait, her lust for power growing endlessly."

Now Im not gonna lie, IMO Morgana probably should be morally grey, mainly for her connection to Kayle and that reason only, however that isnt the WHOLE point of this post.

Why do so many people have some sort of insane fear of "Evil characters"

People wanted a grey Viktor People wanted a grey Xerath Swains rework is coming up so we dont know what to think yet.

Currently the only guaranteed villians of league are Mordekaiser and the Shadow Isle, Xerath, and the Voidlings. Everything else is some form of middle ground, or on the other side of the spectrum (I think its pretty hard to think of Lux as middleground)

But I dont know if people confuse "Fleshed out villian" with "Morally grey"

I see people saying XERATH is morally grey, no, not at all. Xerath is villian with a fleshed out backstory with why he became a villian. But people seem so afraid to call him a villian.

Viktor the man who beleives flesh is a downgrade and humanity isnt efficient enough as robots, only enhances people who want it because he had do be morally grey.

Am I the only person who DOESNT MIND playing just villians that do evil things because they are evil. Sure i like my villians to be more than "Fuk you ppl" but how come every person who CAN be written is evil shouldnt in turn of making sure that they do bad things... but dont hurt anyone doing it.

I just dont understand.

23 Comments

Cetri28 votes

I believe people are only talking about how they want characters who were morally grey in the old lore to have that status preserved in the new. I haven't seen a single solitary person complain about how Thresh or Morde or the Void champs lack a sympathetic side, probably because they never had one.

Meanwhile, characters who DO have a sympathetic side, Viktor, Xerath, and Morgana (and a few others like Zed, Syndra, and Sion), well... that sympathetic side is viewed as a key part of their characters and it's not hard to see why. There's nothing inherently evil about their motivations, and and a large part of why they could be considered villains simply comes down to public image and/or circumstance, which appeals to a lot of people. So it's only natural that if that part of the character seems to be getting axed, people would be less than happy.

There's also a lot more clear-cut villains than you realize. Singed, Urgot, Jhin, the demons, Lissandra, and probably a few more I'm forgetting off the top off my head. And people enjoy them just fine, along with the Shadow Isles and Void champs. Heck, Urgot's one of my favorite champs, and a certain prominent poster around here is well known for loving the heck out of Morde. Yet I'd say we both would still defend champs like Viktor and Morgana's motivations as at the very LEAST well-intentioned, if not outright good/noble.

Again, I'm pretty sure it all comes down to "DID this character have a sympathetic motivation, and IS it getting cut in the new lore?" which I think is a perfectly understandable reason.

Ralanr9 votes

I feel this hits the nail on the head.

People are more interested in character morality to remain the same on some level, even if the character (Viktor) is and was always portrayed as a villain, they want to keep the grey morality they feel belongs.

Viktor was a villain through and through, but he had a code and his own ethics that largely revolves around how ones own idea should never be stolen and removing human emotion from himself in order to control his own hatred. He was seen as grey because he was trying to move past revenge, but Riot kinda handled him poorly when Jayce first arrived.

Now for Morgana and Kayle, their morality was the best example of writing for Riot back then, only because of unreliable narrator. Instead of an all knowing speaker, each lore felt like it was being told from a different point of view. Morgana was painted as a rebel punished for her desire to be an individual by tyrants in her lore, while Kayle was written as someone who sees justice and order above anarchy, to the point that she had to banish her own sister on account of terrorism. The best part of Kayle’s lore is that she knows what she does isn’t nice or pretty, but believes it is right, hence why she wears the helmet because she believes justice is an ugly but necessary thing (and something I’m getting annoyed by whenever they remove her helmet in a skin).

Basically they were both written as heroes in their side of the story and villains in their siblings without us being told who was right.

AbiwonKenabi6 votes

I liked the same things about Kayle and Morg's lore. What made it even better was that it was framed as a "individual rights (Morg) vs strong government (Kayle)" which is a very real ideological clash in the real world, even today. It's something that doesn't have a clear answer, and everyone has different opinions on it, which is what made the conflict especially strong for me. Morgana and Kayle both have good points, but they are also both extremists on the opposite ends of a spectrum.

Plus, I liked that their stories happened because THEY made it happen. They believed in something and took action, Morgana didn't get corrupted or whatever. She CHOSE to rebel because of what she believed in, and Kayle CHOSE to take a strong stance against her because of what SHE believed in. While they need fleshing out, I think this is a very strong basis of character.

Nevrankroaton4 votes

I personnaly feel "Morally Grey" characters really appeal because they look/feel like outcast to society, kinda 'blamed' for their difference while not being a total 'douchebag' in how they can do some questionnable actions.

It is the perfect type of character for identification and self appreciation, it has a mix of "Misunderstood/Rejected/Discriminated" with "I am not a stupid good guy" and "But I am not a nazi" kind of feeling, it make people identify to something they see as unique, as "Not like the norm".

Because it is the biggest part of morally grey characters, they don't go toward a norm and people love that kind of stuff because it made them feel like they are out of a box.

I feel, on a personnal level, it is very often a type of character who is more self indulging than feeling alive as a character. I feel they are VERY blank because they stand outside of lines only to still be lovable/relatable, they kinda make VERY bad actions or bad actions feel okay because "Wow that person was mean to me when I was 6yo and one day my cat died" and wow know you break someone arm because of chilhood trauma.

It is what morally grey character do with fans in general, they are insanely... yeah, boring.

There can be good one, but with league very vocal whiners, even the slight change is seen as blasphemy. Even a different point of view on their champion is "breaking them as characters and alienating their fanbase".

Like, no, Morgana ISN'T morally grey. She has some very bad sides on her story and the only thing that make her seem "grey" is that she lives in a "society" where there is one truth/one true way and therefore give her no liberty whatsoever. For us, human, it is a concept that feel incredibly oppressing and wrong, but again, we judge with our own values.

TL:DR: Morally Grey characters are very often fan favorites, blanks, lack implication and true developpment. Or they are just too showed as grey which hide the impact of their bad/good sides. A very good example is Rick from Rick and Morty. Rick is a pure total douchebag, but because he is fun and seem grey/nihilist, it is okay for people.

It is really why I feel the new lore for Garen and Lux and Demacia overall feel SO MUCH better.

OurLestrade7 votes

Grey tends to mean depth, but simply being grey doesn't automatically give depth which is the issue that a lot of people miss. It's not grey characters I personally like, but rather characters that comfortably straddle serious and light hearted themes at the same time. Taric is the perfect example after his rework since his lore is perfectly straight and serious yet he still has a light theme about him.

Jeddy0176 votes

Well, I will agree that not EVERY character needs to be morally grey.

I just think that some people think that if X character aren't morally grey, then they would lack depth. People want their favorite characters to have depth. They probably think the only way to give antagonistic characters depth is to make them morally grey. Without that depth, they feel their favorite character will just become an one-dimensional, mustache twirling villain. That's why I think people have an obsession with making characters morally grey. But for me, it's not a requirement to be morally grey to have some depth.

There's nothing wrong with some villains being complete villains who have no redeemable qualities & live on the evil they emit. On the other side of the spectrum, there's a place for completely good heroes with strong moral codes who stand on the side of good no matter what. Well, all of this is my opinion at least.

Some people probably just naturally prefer morally grey characters because that's what interests/entertains them the most. They probably find completely bad villains or completely good heroes boring/uninteresting.

GreenLore5 votes

I think part of the problem is that back in the old days Riot was actually rather bad at establishing evil villains.

I mean I am pretty sure that champs like Diana Viktor or Xerath were envisioned to be evil villains,but there were a lot of people who saw them as grey if not outright good characters,since these champs never got to do anything villainous in the old lore and we mostly got to see their sympathetic sides instead.

Anu3isII5 votes

People want to keep the great pylons of the old champions' lore intact.

And, in my opinion, it is easier to sympathize with neutral characters. Not all people want to be the extreme superhero that sacrifices his life for one random person, nor the selfish villain that cares only about himself/herself.

In Morgana's case, her grey morality made her and the "Angels" lore far more interesting. She is the nemesis of Kayle, turned against her people and was shunned by them... but what if she was doing for the right cause? Would Kayle be the villain? This plot is what personally made me more interested in their characters.

Another thing, that everyone mentions in every one post they write, the update is a cliche: the Dark girl is the villain, and the Golden Armoured girl is the hero. Oh, and something happened that we got into this situation... while in the old lore they made their own decisions and had their own character...

Overall, I prefer morally grey characters because people have different views on them, and make the character a bit more unpredictable. If we already know that a person is evil or good, we kinda will get what choices will be made in certain situations.

Retrauk4 votes

On the subject of Swain, he isn't meant to be a morally grey character. He's meant to be a despicable man willing to do anything to get power. He'll backstab anyone if they threaten his power, as illustrated in Urgot's lore. Swain is absolutely a villain, and I wouldn't have it any other way.

Digielf3 votes

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/dragonball/images/3/33/Jiren1.png

UnoGetGoldELO1 votes

fuck this alien dude , he is basically smug incarnate and the worst "enemy" of the DB universe thus far. obligatory DBS is a huge dissapointment but i still watch every new episode and the turbogod sucks cock too - by this point the entire series is a huge no fucks given parody of itself and very cringeworthy back when DB had actual fun moments DBS is now just a pure "uuugh i guess he is going to power up again episode and go beyond his limits , surpassing the gods". im not sorry to vent i was so excited for DBS until this shitty tournament popped up and frieza went gold etc. just uuuuuuuuuuuuuuugh exhales deeply.

Fasmodey3 votes

I agree.

Evil characters can be interesting and successful. And a character being evil is not necessarily bad.

I would like to see Xerath's "good" side though. Not because he isn't supposed to be evil, but because it makes him kinda more clever, complex and someone depends on the sitution. Being morally grey suits on Xerath more too, IMO.

Evil Xerath is also good, but I wouldn't want him pure evil. We already have pure evil conquerer, Mordekaiser.

Xerath being useful for the people of good side, like helping them for his benefits are cool, isn't it? It is something Mordekaiser wouldn't do.

a little shadow3 votes

A ton of people have described it perfectly, I'm just here to point out there are a ton more evil characters to like if that is your thing! Aatrox Brand Chogath DrMundo Evelynn Hecarim Jhin Karthus Khazix Mordekaiser Nocturne RekSai Shaco Singed Thresh Urgot Veigar Velkoz Xerath all come to mind.

Edit because now I want to say my opinion: I think each type of character has their own place. There should be the good person driven to do bad things and there should equally be bad people who do bad things because they want too. When there is only one and not the other things can get stale but I feel like Riot has an ok mix. I think a cool type of evil character we don't really have is a dictator who knows they are a ruthless evil bastard. Fingers crossed for Swain to be a monster.

DeadUnborn1 votes

Not voidlings, go read Kog Maw's updated lore XD

Fawksea1 votes

i like how i basically said the same about aatrox's new lore and got shit for it, and nobody cared, but cus its morgana people flip out :v

Dreamspitter1 votes

Same reason antiheroes are loved.

UnoGetGoldELO1 votes

The shadow isles aren´t inherently evil whatsoever , its the powers behind it that are - #notallundeads.

FakeGravity1 votes

i Personally think that grey morale give characters a much more relatable character, like in live nothing is completely altruistic and no one is pure evil, those are charactaristics of deities and demons and other fictional characters; and while this are also fictional, we feel the need to give them a much deeper story and personality, nothing should be evil just because

grey morale is important specially in characters that mean "good" with awful methods like camille

ChompyWulf1 votes

I think Riot simply doesn't have an editor on staff that oversees lore and keeps things in a balance, so writing can go all over the place. Champs who started evil get edited in updates, stories are written for a new champ and use old champs as side characters who get a totally new treatment, etc...

Meep Man1 votes

I agree. People seem to really hate "evil" characters. Well, if no characters are evil, there is absolutely no desire for any conflict to happen! And that's a bad story as that will have a bad ending because, in the end, there is no great victory for the reader to revel in when the good guy comes out on top. We NEED villains. Sure, as they die and fade to black, it is 100% FINE to show some empathy for them, but not everyone has to be morally grey. Some people can just be 100% villain and want the world to burn or be shaped in their image in the end.

Plus, this short bio for Morg clearly hints that her "evilness" wasn't something she chose, but was forced upon her by having her soul ripped from her. This isn't a descent into evil, it is a forced corruption.

HalfTangible1 votes

Pure evil, mustache twirling villains out of saturday morning cartoons can be fun, but they're hard to take seriously. Morally gray characters are interesting because they can jump the divide between hero and villain that we tend to assume is there in fiction. Syndra is a fairly sympathetic figure since (even though she IS a cruel bitch and is the very definition of "evil empress") her trust was betrayed and her powers suppressed for years on end, whereas Thresh is an outright monster who didn't even have the excuse of undeath before he started flaying people alive.

For those you specifically mention: -When Jayce's lore was first released and it looked like Viktor was going to be a straight-up bad guy, I suggested a scene where (in brief) Viktor initially plans to take over the world for what Jayce did to him, then stops himself to think about it, realizes that that's a terrible idea and he only wants to do it because of his human emotions, and then decides to remove as much of those emotions as he could. Viktor's character was always meant to have this gray haze around him. He's one of the few examples we have of an (arguably) evil paragon figure; people rally around him from his sheer force of charisma and he genuinely believes he's doing the right thing. His STATED final goal is to help mankind through his Glorious Evolution, but can we trust him on that? Jayce clearly doesn't think so, and he would have very good reason; Viktor was kind of an asshole.

-I agree on Xerath. He IS a sympathetic character, but there's a difference between "morally gray" and "sympathetic villain."

6FlagsFunnelCake1 votes

Just as purely Good Characters such as Ashe Braum Galio and many others can be great, evIL characters should be just as successful.

Right on the top of my head the most evil character we got is Urgot recently. But I hope Riot doesn't take a gray route for Singed who I genuinely believe to be just a huge ass, aND I just love to hate him.

I also hope they don't make Leblanc morally grey. Her morals are already a mystery and I hope they make her the immortal "evil witch" or Snow white evil-queenesque character

xxxDogmanxxx1 votes

I main XinZhao . The guy not only took a poisoned shot for King J2, he also gave up his revenge against Noxus and dedicated his entire life to protecting J2 and his entire family, and all of Demacia. Lore-wise, he also has the smoothest transition into the League of Legends in the entire game. They literally just asked him to be a legend and he said okay.

Pretty sure that Xin is firmly on the side of good.

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