Are the undead evil?

BeatinWarDrumz·Sep 26, 2015·4 votes·1,019 views

IDK - I know they are all about suffering and shit, but mostly they make others into undead and they seem to enjoy being undead... so yeah. Karthus also seems to think based on his quotes that being undead is good.

19 Comments

Overlord ForteSep 27, 20155 votes

A core tenet of the undead fantasy is that becoming undead entails a critical loss of 'humanity'. This is commonly expressed as good, ordered, and well mannered people becoming raving monsters, homicidal lunatics, or daemonic malefactors. You have edge cases in things like eternal guardians, timeless watchers, or other positions where morals are ignored in favor of a greater good.

Thresh belongs to the malevolent camp. Wicked in life, wicked in death, the totality of his purpose is torture, and the pleasure of said torture.

Kalista belongs to the neutral camp. Betrayed in life, her thirst for vengeance compelled her soul into a bargain making specter of retribution. For the price of your eternal soul, you too can have your oathbreaker hunted until the end of time.

'Good' undead are creatures who don't exact a price from the living. The best example of this is a dead spouse, one trying to protect their family or loved ones before 'their time is up'. Self-sacrifice to the extreme, one enduring even into death. These are the rarest of undead invoked, and are quite a-typical to encounter in fantasy.

The Shadow Isles is a place of undeath, where life is considered a burden, and the freedom of the dead is above everything else. This is their perspective: not all of them are honest, fair, or kind in the execution.

FasmodeySep 26, 20152 votes

They're neutral in the best scenario. Kalista doesn't look evil nor good, and Kalista is the only undead we know act like this. All of them expect Kalista want to torment livings or tend others for becoming undead.

Karthus is the kindest for undead. He cares about them. Thresh and Mordekaiser are on a different level, they love tormenting to souls and killing. They're the most evil undead as we know if you ask me. Even Hecarim looks less evil.

DariusDemiurgeSep 26, 20152 votes

Evil - Thresh Hecarim Mordekaiser

Not evil - Kalista (if seeking vengeance for major wrong doings is evil, guess I am evil) Yorick (simply wants to find his body, and have his family's name remembered since he failed to have children in life.)

Kind of neutral - Karthus (tries to talk people into undeath as opposed to killing and enslaving them)

GreenLoreSep 26, 20151 votes

I wouldn't be so sure about Karthus. Sure he tries to talk the people into embracing death,but that doesn't mean he won't kill you if you don't want to listen to him(he most likely doesn't have all this death magic just for show)

Though he probably doesn't see anything evil in his actions.

GreenLoreSep 26, 20152 votes

The shadow isles seem to be the most evil state of all. They attack the living and take their souls back to the island,probably turning them into their soliders(if the souls are getting controlled or not is unclear)

I mean Thresh is one of the most evil champions in the league(he'll kill you and then torture your soul for fun) and it is implied that he does work for the shadow isles,if the undeads became obedient on their own,then he'd be kinda obsolete,meaning it is possible that they simply torture the souls of their enemies until they become obedient.

Kalista and Yorick are more or less the nicest shadow isles champions,with kalista being pretty much neutral(she offers a fair trade to those who have been betrayed) and Yorick simply seems to do his job(though who knows how he'll be after his eventual rework)

The non-Shadow-isles undeads seem to be a bit more varied Amumu isn't evil at all,but he is dangerous Sion is "evil" currently,but his resurrection was also flawed Urgot is difficult to judge

Ironclad DragonSep 27, 20152 votes

Technically, there's nothing that makes an undead automatically evil (unless they've been animated by some malevolent force). However, a D&D Sourcebook provided some insight I'm still amazed by.

. . . undeath gradually alters these beings' perspective. Since they are no longer among the living, undead feel considerably less concern for the things and people they once cared for most. Their morals shift. They might still value friends or family members, but snuffing out the life of a random stranger ceases to be abhorrent, because they place no value on life. . .

The act of becoming undead, whether voluntary or not, separates them from the world of the living. Some hate the living and regard them as prey. Even undead that have souls and feel no need to consume the living regard breathing beings as lesser creatures whose wishes and desires are laughably shortsighted, even childlike. This separation derives from the fact that the various pleasures and discomforts that living beings experience on a constant basis do not affect the undead. They do not feel chilled on a cold winter day or comfortable before a warm fire, and they have no ability to appreciate a fine meal . . . They are outsiders to the world of living sensations. . .

Part of becoming undead involves letting go of the concerns of the living. Mortality is by its nature a hectic state in which individuals are constantly at the mercy of various physical and psychological drives . . . The remainder of the troubles and distractions that plague the living vanish, leaving intelligent undead with a calm and terrible patience.

Basically, there's a reason why a good many intelligent undead come across as "evil". To put it bluntly, there's only one thing left in their existence, and that's the pursuit of their choosing. Since they lose everything else, they need to find something to keep themselves going. A hobby or goal, if you will. If you've ever seen the first Pirates of the Caribbean, recall Barbossa's cursed crew. They felt nothing, and it left with a terrible need. All an intelligent undead exists for is now that goal. And if you somehow stand in the way of them pursuing it, you're taking the one thing they have. And most people as far as I'm aware of wouldn't take kindly to that...

GenoXxSep 26, 20151 votes

Kalista does not enjoy being undead. Neither does Yorick.

I'm sure alot others don't either. A lot of the weak willed ones lose their minds quick turning into mindless undead. Which that;s wut the Black mist wants

PeriditionSep 27, 20151 votes

**Chaotic Evil : ** Thresh Mordekaiser Sion

They all exist to cause pain, suffering and destruction for their own pleasure.

**Neutral Evil : ** Yorick

I would argue he's still evil, although tragic. Yorick still perpetuates evil by aiding the Shadow Isles and he does so for selfish reasons so he can ascend and his family name be remembered.

Lawful Evil : Karthus Hecarim Urgot

They are evil but loyal to their cause. For Urgot this is Noxus. For Hecarim and Karthus, this is bring more dead to the Shadow Isles.

Lawful Neutral : Kalista

She is almost more like a force of nature. She has a very strict code she adheres to and is indiscriminate of who's side they're on.

**Chaotic Neutral : ** Evelynn

Assuming she's undead. She doesn't appear to serve the Shadow Isles. She simply kills to pursue her own interests.

Shadowkirby14Sep 29, 20151 votes

I wouldn't called Karthus Lawful Evil, but more Lawful Neutral. Sure he might not care for the living, but he shows a lot of care for the dead, treating the dearly departed with utmost kindness, unlike Thresh, who imprisons and tortures the poor souls out of amusement. Think of Karthus as a friendly Grim Reaper who'll greet you and lead you to a buffet. He wants to treat the Shadow Isle like an undead paradise than a land of torment. Despite being "friends" with Thresh, he doesn't like the idea of seeing souls being tortured and imprisoned for fun, he wanted them to be free. Kinda like an undead Moses. LET MY UNDEAD PEOPLE GO!

Yorick isn't evil either, but more True Neutral. He never wanted to serve the Shadow Isle, but was forced to. All he wanted was to rest in peace, but was forced to be the ferryman of the dead.

Evelynn is Neutral Evil because she seduces and murders anyone for her own pleasure.

Kalista doesn't align herself with the Shadow Isle, so she's independent.

KrinuSep 29, 20151 votes

I don't think so, especially given Irelia .

GreenLoreSep 29, 20151 votes

I wouldn't count on her actually being undead. Her body still seems to be alive just fine even if her soul isn't in the right place.

KrinuSep 29, 20151 votes

http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2040970&page=7#post23410313

GreenLoreSep 29, 20151 votes

Not being mortal doesn't mean she is undead. There is a difference between immortal and undying/soulless

Also that was in 2012,it is easily possible that they'll retcon that.

KrinuSep 29, 20151 votes

"irelia is (more or less) a lich--the weapon her father left her is her 'phylactery'--so i don't know that she'd qualify as a mortal."

Lich. Undead. As in, should have died, but was kept alive by stuffing the soul into a nearby container. Does she look like a quintessential zombie? No. But the question wasn't 'are all nasty looking zombie-like creatures from the Shadow Isles evil," it was "are all undead evil."

Irelia's undead. She is, by most accounts, not evil. Ergo...

(Also until they do retcon it, it stands.)

GreenLoreSep 29, 20151 votes

More-or-less.As in not exactly like that.

He is referring to the fact that Irelias soul is inside her blades,meaning they act like a soul jar. But does having a soulless body mean you are undead?No. Her heart is still beating and her body still seems to function correctly.

Undead refers to those whose bodies are dead,yet they still move(sometimes without a body entirely),Irelias body however is still alive,even if it is though magical means.

KrinuSep 29, 20151 votes

I don't see anything that suggests her heart is still beating. I don't see anything that suggests it isn't, either, but remember - in many stories a vampire's heart still beats, but they're definitely considered undead.

GreenLoreSep 30, 20151 votes

Well her body still has its natural skin color,which suggests that blood is still flowing through her veins,which means her heart is still beating. Overall she looks pretty normal,which suggests that her body still alive like it was before. Sure she returned from the dead,but there are also instances in real life where a person temporarily dies and they are not considered undead either.

SEKAISep 29, 20151 votes

Because being undead means you can't get rid of it, at all.

So some of them simply come in terms with their own misery one way or the other, and starting to enjoy it, but that doesn't mean they're completely evil.

DariusDemiurgeSep 30, 20151 votes

I thought Irelia was brought back via reincarnation/resurrection by the "will of Ionia" aka brought back to normal life, like being rez'd by a holy priest or healing class in an MMO/RPG. Which as we see in other fantasy based things is far different than being undead, and often not as associated with evil things.