Jaredan provides some fascinating insights into "celestial" magic

CupcakeTrap·Mar 6, 2015·8 votes·8,422 views

I think Jaredan's response (toward the bottom of this sub-thread) is really quite intriguing, and one of the most substantive comments I've read from Narrative to date.

55 Comments

SharjoMar 6, 20156 votes

It's interesting, kinda brings to light how distinct and abstract the concept of divinity can truly be. All in all this kinda means that powers of Runeterra, at least some of them, all draw upon the same kinds of power with different effects and forms. So in a sense, Bard's probably one of the most powerful beings or perhaps knows some of the most powerful beings that have ever existed in the entire UNIVERSE. And they probably look something like Bard, but without his garments.

I'm gonna go back to this, because I can:

Xerath "I see the forces that hold the universe together."

The Shurimans didn't know just how close they were to that level of incomprehensible power. Makes me fear for Demacia and what they might end up drawing upon in their hour of need, or maybe they already have Kayle ...

XulsigaeMar 6, 20154 votes

Hrm. Makes me wonder just what Bard is doing then with all his power. At some point a being becomes so powerful or has such a big picture view that it doesn't really care what's happening to mortals and such. He's not omnipotent but still doesn't seem like he would care much about things on Runeterra like people. Just based on what I've seen him do so far, he's either rather callous or indifferent to people's sufferings.

If he's meant to be neutral or looks at the 'big picture,' there are ways to be so and not be indifferent to 'lesser' beings. I'm looking specifically at the 7 beings of Sandman. Dream and Death are both essentially immortal and immensely powerful and don't really care what people do day to day. However they are still not uncaring about people, doing their jobs with passion and not creating undue suffering by inaction, though Dream can be petulant at times. Death from Discworld does that too. He does his job to be there when things die, but he doesn't simply shove them into the afterlife. So far Bard sounds like he's supposed to be a 'nice' being, but I haven't seen it yet. Of course when the next videos come out (and they will...won't they?) and we find out more about him my view might be completely different.

Yeah I know that wasn't about Soraka, but felt it was relevant.

LANWhaleMar 7, 20151 votes

Hrm. Makes me wonder just what Bard is doing then with all his power. At some point a being becomes so powerful or has such a big picture view that it doesn't really care what's happening to mortals and such.

Who's not to say that he has already reach this level of thinking. Err, allow me to be more clear here.

This is how I picture Bard is. At first he cared about all life in Runeterra, constantly coming to the rescue to save lives and taking away anything that is misused. Over time the cycle kept repeating, Bard came in, restored peace and saved some lives. But as you said,

He's not omnipotent

He probably either snapped or got tired of the endless cycle. And now all he cares about is taking care of the problem at the source. Whether or not lives are lost or gained is no longer meaning full. *The loss of one is not enough for Bard to justify the lost of many. *

Of course this is just my speculation here.** He went from saving all life he could to only removing things that are misused or extremely dangerous.**

XulsigaeMar 7, 20152 votes

Well I can't speak to his thinking yet. Only going off of what his description is and his actions in the video so far, he seems like he's supposed to be benevolent, but then doesn't do much to save the village. I find it hard to believe so far that he didn't know a village with such a relic was under attack. I know he's not omnipotent, but he was rather close to the village and attacks like that aren't really subtle.

I wonder what sort of relics he does collect. What is the balance he tries to protect. How big a threat does something have to be before he cares. Hope we find out.

Sneak DogMar 7, 20152 votes

They are subtle. Only when they stop being subtle does Bard notice. Also, I don't think Bard is far away from anywhere.

XulsigaeMar 7, 20152 votes

In the video he was on a nearby mountain. He does move in 3 dimensions when he wants or needs to it seems.

RiotRiotJaredanMar 8, 20152 votes

Precisely.

XulsigaeMar 8, 20152 votes

So if he is sometimes bound to three dimensions, what determines when he is and isn't? Sounds akin to the Doctor having to be separated from the TARDIS so he's not OP.

RiotRiotJaredanMar 7, 20157 votes

He can get around like pretty much no one else.

Corporate BergerMar 8, 20151 votes

Can i play with a riot member? D: I heard you guys will play with people if they hit 1000 wins

RiotRiotJaredanMar 7, 20159 votes

It was the use of the weapon that was the signal for Bard to intervene. One old sage was able to level a mountain in a desperate act by momentarily tapping into an object of enormous power, which was essentially, to Bard, in the hands of children.

Time to take that away.

Chromatic EagleMar 7, 20154 votes

So this is what I'm confused about. Are these artifacts his? Did he originally give them to people? Is he some type of spiritual inspector who wonders around to check the proper use of artifacts? Why didn't he take Shurima's sun-disk?

Is he able to freely return to his plane unlike Soraka? Does he literally just travel the world until needed or does he stay in his plane until called?

RiotRiotJaredanMar 8, 20153 votes

No, he doesn't distribute all artifacts of power, he's not the origin for every potentially dangerous focus of magic on Runeterra and elsewhere. He might move things off the board temporarily, that may appear later when the time, according to the way of things, is right.

In the previous example, I'm not talking about the egg in particular, I'm talking about things I'm not going to talk about.

He didn't take the sun-disk as he was dealing with something else at the time. But let's just say he got a good view of the fireworks.

Sorry to be a bugger, but I have to manifest at a moment's notice and stop myself from unleashing spoilers.

Chromatic EagleMar 8, 20151 votes

Does Bard know of the Darkin? Aatrox specifically? Is Bard aware of Ionia in general and their artifacts? Like Varus and Zed for examples.

NarasimhaMar 7, 20153 votes

If he's meant to be neutral or looks at the 'big picture,' there are ways to be so and not be indifferent to 'lesser' beings. I'm looking specifically at the 7 beings of Sandman. Dream and Death are both essentially immortal and immensely powerful and don't really care what people do day to day. However they are still not uncaring about people, doing their jobs with passion and not creating undue suffering by inaction, though Dream can be petulant at times.

Dream also 'died' because he got too involved with the world, something that Death (in the same universe), chided him for.

Death from Discworld does that too. He does his job to be there when things die, but he doesn't simply shove them into the afterlife.

I actually really like Discworld's Death. He does his job, but he actually tries to do it well and almost kindly. "What does the harvest hope for if not for the care of the Reaper Man?" Though he does also admit that his proximity to humans is what has shaped him so much.

Personally, I don't think Bard is 'nice', in much the same vein as I don't think he's 'mean'. He just acts in a scope thats beyond human comprehension.

RiotRiotJaredanMar 7, 201510 votes

Spot on, Narasimha.

Bard is in no way a villainous individual, but, as many players have rightly pointed out, if you are in the middle of a catastrophe and a being of power swoops in and takes away something that could seem utterly insignificant to those around him, he might be perceived as a bit of a bastard.

"Why didn't it save us?" could be the response, but Bard might have saved everything you could ever be, everything your progeny could become. You just didn't know it.

XulsigaeMar 7, 20151 votes

There are progeny in the village after the Noxian attack? I don't understand that statement. I see some children running towards what looks like a cliff when Bard flies over them, is that what you mean?

If Bard had intervened, he might have saved even more people. As it is, he didn't save many people at all from what I see in the video. What could ever be if there is no one left to be it? Saving people from themselves rings a bit hollow when you don't save them from others, if I'm understanding what you meant. Apologies if I'm reading it wrong.

What did the orb do then before the village was attacked? Was Bard aware of the orb in the village? If he was, why not keep a much closer eye on it? If not, why was he in the area? What is his limit of knowledge about where relics are?

RiotRiotJaredanMar 8, 20152 votes

My example is not specifically related to the teaser, I'm generally talking about how people might perceive Bard as he undertakes his task. I was trying to get to the idea that one person might see Bard as uncaring, but his goals will have much greater importance than the spectator might imagine.

To speak to Mountain in particular, Bard's actions prevented something that could have spun out into a continent-wide (or even global) calamity. Bard makes his move and intervenes when power is misused or destabilizes a large-scale situation (the balance that he is aware of). And for Bard, it's as if he's always nearby, he just doesn't operate within the limits of the same three-dimensional space that we do.

XulsigaeMar 8, 20151 votes

Ah okay. Just seems to me that if he had been more involved in the conflict, the village's destruction could have been prevented and the mountain remained unblasted. As it stands now, it appears Bards only reacts to problems when it's too late rather than preventing them. Those fires were pretty bright and I don't see how he didn't notice a fight for something was going on.

Well he sure had some travel time when he went from his resting spot to getting the relic. I don't see how he moved in anything other than three dimensional space then. No teleporting or time travel in that. Maybe I missed something.

RiotRiotJaredanMar 8, 20153 votes

This is how I imagine his viewpoint, and this is just me talking so forgive me if I wax on a bit: when I was younger, oh so many years ago, I was at a 5th of November bonfire party (I'm very English).

The fire was set up in the back garden of a house and was built so ridiculously tall, and became so inordinately hot, it began to warp the glass in the windows. Around the worryingly out of control fire, I thought I could see tiny sparks from it flying in hypnotic circles until I realized they were fireflies, or bugs being caught up in the heat.

The orb was the fire. The Noxians and the Ionians were the fireflies.

Bard was only interested in the bonfire.

XulsigaeMar 8, 20153 votes

Penny for the guy?

I get that he's very focused on relics and big pictures, but at the same time he doesn't seem to consider preventing the need for him to take those relics away. Does he teach people how to use them properly? Does he take relics away before places are attacked for them? What does the 'balance' maintain other than the safety of mortals?

SydelleMar 9, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Penny for the guy?

I get that he's very focused on relics and big pictures, but at the same time he doesn't seem to consider preventing the need for him to take those relics away. Does he teach people how to use them properly? Does he take relics away before places are attacked for them? What does the 'balance' maintain other than the safety of mortals?

Xulsigae, since I do not understand why do you believe there is a contradiction, I scrolled up to a prior post you had made in an attempt to decipher what contradiction you see that I don't.

Just like players in the Rift discover exploits that were never meant to be discovered and Rioters have to go out there and fix them, so then you should be able to understand that this could happen in the real (or imaginary) world where a higher level being steps in to balance the world again.

It is quite possible that a celestial being understands that the mentality of the villagers or its enemies surrounding was not at the place it needed to be to even be explain how to use the relic. In other words, the choices that these humans made were so UNEXPECTEDLY stupid, that a little correction (similar to a patch made by Riot to bring an exploit to an end) was needed.

Like as far as whether Bard can see the future perfectly well, that's an assumption that you are making. Being able to travel to the future and back is one thing, but your ability to keep memories (a physical attribute) while you travel back and forth in time is another. Memories, in all likelihood, do not stick with an inter-dimensional being but to the body holding them.

XulsigaeMar 9, 20151 votes

I didn't mean to say there are contradictions in Bard's lore quite yet, only ones I seem to see. It's too early to speculate and say 'perhaps.' I'm waiting for the rest of the lore, but I do have questions now. I did mean that we can't just say 'Magic' to excuse issues that arise narratively. A character's motivations can't just have 'because magic' as a reason unless they agree with the character's personality and such for example.

SydelleMar 9, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I didn't mean to say there are contradictions in Bard's lore quite yet, only ones I seem to see. It's too early to speculate and say 'perhaps.' I'm waiting for the rest of the lore, but I do have questions now. I did mean that we can't just say 'Magic' to excuse issues that arise narratively. A character's motivations can't just have 'because magic' as a reason unless they agree with the character's personality and such for example.

I guess my question to you is: Where do you see 'Magic' as an excuse to issues that arise in the narrative? Your answer to that could really potentially help those that work on narrative.

You expose a character such as Bard to a community made up of hundreds of thousands, and the fact that a multitude of questions arise for which a creator may not have a ready answer is real.

My first reaction to the teaser was that it seemed awesome, but there were enough questionable wordings in the teaser as to create this feeling of foreboding that Riot could be attempting to bite more than it can chew. At the same time, I strongly wished for them to be able to pull a character of this magnitude off, or at the very least, to not LITERALLY draw themselves into the living representation of the sage in the Mountain themselves: unwrapping an orb (a spirit, a champion) that they've got zero clue how to use responsibly.

So in a way we all find ourselves being able to experience the cinematic ourselves. We are Bard, spectating a battle that we cannot possibly take part in from afar. Imagine Bard's team as the villagers and everyone else that put obstacles to his true concept as Noxus. We are Bard.

You say: "I'm waiting for the rest of the lore" and at the same time you question why Bard sits somewhere spectating instead of intervening. Isn't it the hope that things will turn out well without your intervention that makes you say: "I'm waiting for the rest of the lore"? Well, perhaps Bard was as unaware that he could intervene sooner as you are unaware that you actually CAN intervene in his narrative.

Only one thing is for sure, if Riot drops THIS proverbial ball, there will be a lot of Bards intervening, and good luck to Cinder thinking those Bards can be banished, because he'll be unable to.

Reporting live from the nearest inter-dimensional nexus, Sydelle

XulsigaeMar 9, 20152 votes

Hrm. It's not so much that magic is used yet as an excuse but that it might be. From what the video showed and what Narrative has been telling us, Bard is a very powerful and aloof being concerned with the big picture. All well and good, but he still has to have coherent motivations and actions. To me, a being like that would want to be involved in preventing the need for taking away relics by educating people more about them and such rather than simply reacting to crises when they occur. Also Jaerdan said that he isn't bound to 3 dimensions. That's fine, but what makes him move in 3 dimensions then in the video? If he can move in more than 3 dimensions, that pretty much sounds like he can time travel or teleport. So why not do that to grab all the relics at once or move back in time to prevent them from being used...and all sorts of other questions. Why is Bard limited to 3 dimensions sometimes and others not? Seems like story convenience to me. You give a being so much power that if they used it all the time there would be no conflict, so you have them not use it. Pretty much like the TARDIS in Doctor Who or how Goku in Dragon Ball Z had to be prevented from fighting immediately with sickness or space travel or being dead so he just didn't destroy whatever the foe was.

I'm waiting for the rest of the lore to find out more about his motivations and such. I'm asking questions now based on what powers he's seen to use and the descriptions of him given to us by the Narrative team.

A concern of mine is that a few of the previous champions have been hard to relate to due to them being rather one dimensional and without voices of their own to tell their own stories. Kalista had her own voice(s), but was pretty much so focused on one thing, vengeance, that I couldn't really feel anything about her. Gnar is obviously childish, but he can't say anything for me to relate to. Rek'Sai is just a beast and even harder for me to identify with.

Bard has an similar issue to me. He's so 'complex' and above mortals, and lacking a voice as well that I can't connect with him either yet. More lore might fix this and I hope it does, but in the mean time I don't really feel much for him. It's fine to innovate in champion stories and how to tell them but not all innovations are equally compelling. A godlike being with reasons beyond my understanding is...meh to me as a character. It allows any action he takes to be explained with essentially 'He works in mysterious ways.' 'Why did he not save people in the village?' 'It's beyond your scope of understanding.' If I may be permitted to make a comparison, myths with things like the Norse Gods and other pantheons are more interesting to me than stories about 'God' of the Abrahamic faiths. The reason is that the former are more relatable and lively with lots of things happening with them. They are knowable to us. The latter is rather staid and boring, lacking conflict and being too advanced for us to comprehend, so I don't even try.

Bard has a fascinating art style and skill set and music, but I don't like the lack of an understandable voice and a relatable lore so far. I hope this changes as more lore comes out. I really want to know what he thinks and why he can be concerned with saving the big picture but not help people caught up in conflicts. And of course this is all my view so take it all with a grain of salt.

ItemsGuyMar 9, 20154 votes

One of the directions I'm not too satisfied with in regards to the recent lore, is creating champions that are moreso myths and legends than characters. Bard is a cosmic entity beyond comprehension, Kalista is a force of vengeance, Rek'Sai is a feral beast with no more character than Baron Nashor, Braum is a folkstory character, Thresh is a boogeyman, Amumu is a myth, and so on and so forth.

But the thing is, you don't really see any of these characters interact with anyone else, much less any other champions, eh? It's all just old people telling stories, things that could be embellished or simply not true (but I guess we have to take their word for it 'cause it's all we've got!). The only times we actually do get to see champions interact, even if only briefly, are during the lore events we get every few years if we're lucky, or during non-canon CG promotional cinematics.

League has a roster of over 100 champions. You'd imagine we'd get to see them interact every now and then, outside of what is now allegedly Super Smash Bros.: League Edition.

XulsigaeMar 10, 20152 votes

I think Thresh and Braum are the ones most able to be related to and be characters out of the ones you listed, as Thresh has involvement with the rest of the Shadow Isles and Lucian, while Braum has so much character he just needs more stories with him interacting with other champions to flesh him out. His personality begs for interaction I think. Amumu used to be a very relatable character, but now he's gone all 'mysterious' and 'kill everything around me.' Before he was sad and such, but not unapproachable. Annie and the League provided him some care. Now I don't really see him interacting with anyone except long distance.

ItemsGuyMar 10, 20152 votes

I'd disagree with you about Thresh--while he may end up interacting with more champions in the future (and he has already interacted with Lucian some), the way his character and personality have been set up, he's pretty much just a boogeyman that does evil ghost stuff for the Shadow Isles and likes causing pain; not so much a character who interacts and develops (unless it's to kick off somebody's edgy revenge plot), he's more of a ghost story than anything.

With Braum, I really want to agree with you there, but the thing here isn't just "I can see this character interacting with other characters in an interesting way somewhere down the line"--both him and Thresh have personalities, going by in-game VU, but the way they were written, they don't really seem like living/undead parts of the world and the narrative as much as they feel like stories you tell around campfires, whether in horror or reverence.

It's a stark contrast from the old lore (which was by no means perfect), where you could see unlikely friendships and rivalries be made and developed, where Blitzcrank could play matchmaker for Rammus, where Amumu could actually be in a situation where he could actually maybe make a friend instead of aimlessly wandering the desert for ever to maybe possibly be shoehorned into a future conflict.

With the removal of the Institute, there is no longer that central hub of champion interaction. Now, everything is limited to geographical proximity or two characters hating each other. You will never see how Nautilus interacts with Azir, because they have no reason to meet. You will never see someone like old Trundle make friends with Soraka, because now there's an entire ocean between them. Anyone who actively wants to destroy the world will never be a part of interesting or compelling character interaction beyond some other champions going "WE BETTER STOP THIS GUY" because the world is no longer set up to allow that to happen.

Considering this is a story about 120+ playable characters that should be capable of being attached to on some level by some portion of the playerbase, it's a bit concerning to see how much effort Narrative is going through to distance these champions from the world they inhabit and each other.

SydelleMar 10, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Hrm. It's not so much that magic is used yet as an excuse but that it might be. From what the video showed and what Narrative has been telling us, Bard is a very powerful and aloof being concerned with the big picture. All well and good, but he still has to have coherent motivations and actions. To me, a being like that would want to be involved in preventing the need for taking away relics by educating people more about them and such rather than simply reacting to crises when they occur. Also Jaerdan said that he isn't bound to 3 dimensions. That's fine, but what makes him move in 3 dimensions then in the video? If he can move in more than 3 dimensions, that pretty much sounds like he can time travel or teleport. So why not do that to grab all the relics at once or move back in time to prevent them from being used...and all sorts of other questions. Why is Bard limited to 3 dimensions sometimes and others not? Seems like story convenience to me. You give a being so much power that if they used it all the time there would be no conflict, so you have them not use it. Pretty much like the TARDIS in Doctor Who or how Goku in Dragon Ball Z had to be prevented from fighting immediately with sickness or space travel or being dead so he just didn't destroy whatever the foe was.

I'm waiting for the rest of the lore to find out more about his motivations and such. I'm asking questions now based on what powers he's seen to use and the descriptions of him given to us by the Narrative team.

A concern of mine is that a few of the previous champions have been hard to relate to due to them being rather one dimensional and without voices of their own to tell their own stories. Kalista had her own voice(s), but was pretty much so focused on one thing, vengeance, that I couldn't really feel anything about her. Gnar is obviously childish, but he can't say anything for me to relate to. Rek'Sai is just a beast and even harder for me to identify with.

Bard has an similar issue to me. He's so 'complex' and above mortals, and lacking a voice as well that I can't connect with him either yet. More lore might fix this and I hope it does, but in the mean time I don't really feel much for him. It's fine to innovate in champion stories and how to tell them but not all innovations are equally compelling. A godlike being with reasons beyond my understanding is...meh to me as a character. It allows any action he takes to be explained with essentially 'He works in mysterious ways.' 'Why did he not save people in the village?' 'It's beyond your scope of understanding.' If I may be permitted to make a comparison, myths with things like the Norse Gods and other pantheons are more interesting to me than stories about 'God' of the Abrahamic faiths. The reason is that the former are more relatable and lively with lots of things happening with them. They are knowable to us. The latter is rather staid and boring, lacking conflict and being too advanced for us to comprehend, so I don't even try.

Bard has a fascinating art style and skill set and music, but I don't like the lack of an understandable voice and a relatable lore so far. I hope this changes as more lore comes out. I really want to know what he thinks and why he can be concerned with saving the big picture but not help people caught up in conflicts. And of course this is all my view so take it all with a grain of salt.

Well, Xulsigae, it seems pretty clear that the village suffered catastrophic losses of life without the relic being used to stop the first death. So apparently, the village sage did have some education about not using it. What a sage will do, or what any human being will do, with his/her last breath of life may be completely different than how one will behave at full health. Surely, you've seen many players in the Rift turn back and fight their enemy when death is certain anyway. So you have all the reasons in the world to believe that the sage and some of its high ranking villagers were educated on the orb, or less they would have just used it when the Noxus army first appeared.

I can't speak to Jaredan's understanding of multiple dimensions other than what I've already stated. Interdimensional beings are intuitives who rely on non-physical memory to accomplish their fates so what I'm telling you is that, in my opinion, interdimensional beings do not recall memories when they teleport. More when I'm out of game.

XulsigaeMar 10, 20151 votes

I have no idea what the orb was used for before the old man used it. I can't say they had much education before because I don't know. It appears that he used it out of desperation. Jaerdan said (I think) that they didn't know how to use it. To me if they had known about the destructive powers and how to use them without blasting mountains, there would have been no need to take it. I'd need to know more though.

Can't speculate about that, only what I see in the video and lore so far. Waiting for Jaerdan to expound (which has been quite lovely and I much appreciate the interactions).

SydelleMar 10, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I have no idea what the orb was used for before the old man used it. I can't say they had much education before because I don't know. It appears that he used it out of desperation. Jaerdan said (I think) that they didn't know how to use it. To me if they had known about the destructive powers and how to use them without blasting mountains, there would have been no need to take it. I'd need to know more though.

Can't speculate about that, only what I see in the video and lore so far. Waiting for Jaerdan to expound (which has been quite lovely and I much appreciate the interactions).

Sorry, out of game now. What I meant to say is that I have some type of understanding of how things would work with multiple dimensions but I have no idea what Jaredan's idea of multiple dimensions is. My understanding is derived from what I've learned of quantum physics.

My understanding is that physical memory, as you know it, is not retained by an entity that can ascend/descend/trascend the physical realm. There is another type of memory, more primitive, that can travel with the spirit, but it is not nearly as sharp as the physical memory.

So what this means is that the very act of traveling dimensions buffers your ability to manipulate it.

XulsigaeMar 10, 20151 votes

Well I'd wonder then how he know's he's Bard and what his job is if he loses his memories each time. Again, can't speculate. Need to hear from Jaerdan.

SydelleMar 10, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Well I'd wonder then how he know's he's Bard and what his job is if he loses his memories each time. Again, can't speculate. Need to hear from Jaerdan.

To be honest, the dude doesn't even have a proper name (nor a proper body I might add) so maybe Bard is just what he's called. And what is anyone's job on this planet other than to do what one feels calls to do at any single moment?

SydelleMar 10, 20151 votes

{quoted}

You give a being so much power that if they used it all the time there would be no conflict, so you have them not use it.

Think it was already stated that Bard has limits and rules. Then they went on to explain some of those limits and some people say that they alluded to him having his own rules (I didn't personally read this last). Now those limits and rules reflect what is in the imagination of the lead narrator which in itself is couched on the mysticism and stories that he/she has been exposed to during his/her life, and how well he/she can draw lines as our ancestors did between the stars. Funny that, as this entire process of creation occurs within our brain, bright and physical constellations do appear drawn in the dark space between the neural bodies. :)

XulsigaeMar 10, 20151 votes

I shall wait for the Narrative team to answer.

ItemsGuyMar 8, 20153 votes

If it's as he's always nearby and not operating by the laws of reality that everyone else is bound by, how come he didn't intervene during the Sun Disc Fiasco? With this other important thing he was doing at the exact same time (which is also assuming he has the same linear perception of time as us), is that something we'll ever hear about? It must've been pretty important if preventing an entire civilization from being wiped off the map wasn't number one in the queue.

Also, I'm having trouble thinking of how exactly Bard will fit into the overall narrative, considering he is and can do things that 98% of League's roster can't even dream of being or doing. Miss Fortune, Garen, Rumble, Graves, etc. are all crying into their drink right now. Without something like the IoW in place and the game itself being an entirely non-canon "what-if" battleground where players can see which characters they know little to nothing about can beat other characters they know little to nothing about in a setting that stresses competitive balance between the guy who stops the world from dying and a very charismatic dude covered in gems, what do you guys plan on doing to make players who have become invested in the champions whose existence don't threaten doomsday (or those who can effortlessly prevent it) not feel like their faves are complete chumps in the faces all the crazy powerful characters that have been coming into existence lately?

When will Teemo shooting dead what is essentially a god ever make sense, and with this calamity-preventing force now introduced, when will other champions get to shine without making him look incompetent or just bad at the one thing he's supposed to do?

MotajoMar 9, 20152 votes

{quoted}Also, I'm having trouble thinking of how exactly Bard will fit into the overall narrative, considering he is and can do things that 98% of League's roster can't even dream of being or doing.

Agreed. Just the ascended beings and embodiments of nature were pushing it a bit much. Especially since the game is no longer canon, how are we supposed to even think of characters like Tristana or Garen as legends when the lore of this release is essentially, "look at this 3mysterious5me cosmically OP motherfucker"?

ItemsGuyMar 9, 20152 votes

Hmm, well, if I were crazy and didn't know better, it would almost sound like not very much of this was planned in advance.

But of course, it probably all has been! After all, it would be a bit silly to retcon the foundation of the game's story without having a plan for each and every single champion. That's why within a month of the retcon's announcement, every champion received a brand spankin' new, full-sized lore that's easily accessible through the game's client and the main website, to give us context on why all of these characters matter and are all equally significant despite wildly varying power levels!

RiotRiotJaredanMar 8, 20153 votes

I forgot to mention, as Loping Cinder confirmed yesterday, the child being carried in the animated piece grows up to be the storyteller who regales his students with tales of constellations in Bard's web teaser.

Just a fun fact.

ItemsGuyMar 8, 20154 votes

Just a "fun fact," like Lissandra being blind and the tattoo on Diana's forehead being a brand?

You guys sure throw a lot of stuff details out willy-nilly without really having a place to concentrate it all! Kind of weird that I have to scrounge through a third-party wiki or not let a single Red Tracker post slip by if I want to know fairly important details (such as the relative timeframe of the events shown in Bard: Mountain, even just assuming that the constellation teaser we got before that was close to "present day"--if there's even some sort of timeline at this point) before they fall into obscurity.

Maybe have a secondary Red Tracker-esque search mode where we can see all the little lore scraps that just kinda get tossed out to the wind?

XulsigaeMar 7, 20151 votes

True, but he was still able to be mostly nonjudgmental and yet caring about things.

Indeed. How DEATH acts is a good example of what I thought Bard would also act like based on his looks, description and 'quotes.' Bard's 'voice' is relatively soothing and such, he's a caretaker protecting the balance, he doesn't look cold or eerie and all that. To me his looks and chimes and job title suggest a 'nice' character, not one to ignore mortals. Especially not ones with a relic.

MotajoMar 6, 20153 votes

Maybe you saw something I didn't, but his comment didn't seem particularly substantive. You mean this one, right?

Bard traverses all planes that can intersect with Runeterra, so he is certainly linked to that degree, but he's not restricted only to Soraka's plane of origin.

Runeterran magic has many different aspects, origins, and foci. Bard exists and journeys across many realms and planes, which is the difference in his concept of "celestial" as compared to the specific focus of each of your examples. It certainly makes sense to see things like Shurima's sun-disk as an attempt to tap into one part of a celestial power.

I guess we can speculate on the link(s) between Runeterran magics, but this reply doesn't seem all that special.

But speaking of magic speculation, the idea of an origin for the schools of magic won't leave my head. You have your holy, spooky, arcane, whatever-else-actually-applies-here-stuff being more evolved forms of magics branching from some primal ancestor, and together they form a psychedelic family tree with that unknown primordial wizard soup as the trunk.

CupcakeTrapMar 6, 20154 votes

{quoted}

Maybe you saw something I didn't, but his comment didn't seem particularly substantive. You mean this one, right?

I guess we can speculate on the link(s) between Runeterran magics, but this reply doesn't seem all that special.

But speaking of magic speculation, the idea of an origin for the schools of magic won't leave my head. You have your holy, spooky, arcane, whatever-else-actually-applies-here-stuff being more evolved forms of magics branching from some primal ancestor, and together they form a psychedelic family tree with that unknown primordial wizard soup as the trunk.

The main thing I took from his reply was that there is a celestial plane, and that Bard is "native" to it (in a sense), whereas most other magic users are at most tapping into one aspect of it. There are a few different types of Runeterran magic that seem to be "celestial" in some sense; this helped clarify the relationship there.

I suppose the principal remaining ambiguity is whether Soraka was turning into a Bard-like being, or if she was linked to a different "celestial" power. I would infer from the discussion in that thread, though, that she was ascending to the same general plane as Bard hails from.

RiotRiotJaredanMar 8, 20153 votes

Soraka and Bard are two very different beings, that's all I can really say for now.

Chromatic EagleMar 8, 20151 votes

Can you tell us when his story will be released? Will it be released on the forums, or on the website finally?

ULTRAF0RCEMar 8, 20151 votes

my guess is it will be released when Bard is

Chromatic EagleMar 8, 20151 votes

Does Bard have any connections to Jax?

SydelleMar 9, 20151 votes

It is funny to me that the conversation around why Bard is able to take certain actions and not others is the cause for so much debate.

Why are Rioters unable to discuss politics and religion in the forums? Rioters are bound by the rules of their company. Likewise, in an imaginary world, Bard would simply be bound by the rules of his celestial plane.

In our real world, believers of celestial beings know such beings are bound to respect our free will, and that means that we seek our own fate. So if we are all mortal, terrestrial beings looking at an imaginary world, it would make the most sense to look at that imaginary world through the terrestrial perspective that celestial beings are bound by rules of their own. This is why it is funny to me that there should be so much discussion as to why Bard would take an instrument that could destroy a world away from the hands of mis-users, and not save a village.

Just like Rioters are not allowed to discuss their religious and political beliefs with you, so can Bard not take certain actions towards the imaginary terrestrial plane without breaking a rule of his own plane.

Bard takes the instrument away because it makes it so that the world is unlikely to be the ground for future fateseekers and that's what the world is made for (or at least what we should understand the world is made for based on an Earthlike perspective), but he doesn't touch a single villager because they are bound to the fate determined by their actions.

On Earth, there is an action taken by our ancestors (simply depicted as eating an apple) through which we acquire free will (a free will that needs be respected by all players in the celestial realm), because we are made to understand that this is an attribute of God that allows us to become more LIKE him. A through understanding of the nature of love, however, acquired through your walk in this life, should make you understand that love binds you to a course of action in which there is no choice - only the right choice. Now many believe that God is love. If such a thing is true, then having free will does not make us more like him, because love always chooses love and has no choice but to be love-- in that case, we'd have to come to an understanding that we were deceived. Free will just gives us the choice to not be like Him.

XulsigaeMar 9, 20152 votes

Using 'He exists with his own rules' doesn't excuse story contradictions and such necessarily.

SydelleMar 10, 20151 votes

Braum is personable and knowable. My point being that some people will not see personable and knowable if it stares them in the face. People see what they want to see, and it's not mean to call them out on it when, in the grand scheme of things, you are just being helpful.

So then, hate spawns in the unlikeliest of places (Bard is a jerk!) almost like magic! Set aside that Bard is trying to help in his context, that I try to help in my context, that the jungler tries to help in his context... at the merest hint of the realization that I fail, or that someone whom I strongly relate to in the video (villagers for example) fail, let's look to blame someone else and make ourselves completely blind to any evidence that points to the contrary.

"The villagers should've been educated in the use of the orb." "Well look for yourself, all signs point to that they were." "Oh well, that's not what I was thinking."

Humans DO have an orb of incredible power, in imaginary worlds and the real world. It is right there attached to those peripherals: eyes to see, ears to balance and hear, etc. Well then, where is the step by step guide on how to use it? .............................................school? parents? church? good friends? "random" people that touch your life whom you'd happily tell to fk off?

edit: or Riot Games Narrative..... right. There's that too. -.- God bless their minds.