Why Kai'sa is not insane.

The Ecdysiast··29 votes·2,712 views

Kai'sa's interactions are out, and while we wait for her story to confirm or ignore some of our Void-related questions, I wanna make a post about the Void, what we know about it, and how it pertains to her voice.

Malzahar and Kassadin offer very little to our knowledge of the Void: from Malzahar, we know that some give in to the supposed inevitability of the crossing-over and become servants-- if not slaves-- to the Void itself. Malzahar actually leads a cult of such people. From Kassadin and other unnamed "Preservers", we know that there's an opposing group which has seen these horrors and fights to prevent the downfall of the entire planet. Though it's not stated in their lore, by their own actions the Targonians are all also members of this opposing group.

Current lore actually has nothing stating that the Void drives people insane unless you consider giving in to be insanity-- which I don't. Becoming subservient to something or someone because it's more powerful than you is a part of basic human nature. The powerful lead. And to that end it's only Malzahar and Kassadin's voices that are distorted, their minds have remained largely intact.


That said, for Kai'sa it's not the Void that would drive her mad--- it's the complete lack of human interaction. We don't even have any indication that the Void has invaded her mind, considering the lack of distortion in her voice. But even a grittier-than-average person would lose their sanity with time in isolation. My theory is that the armor she's clad in is the very thing preventing her descent into madness.

Her symbiotic relationship with the creature on her body is completely obligatory-- meaning neither can live without the other. So it stands to reason that the creature would do all it can to dull her sense of fear in the face of the overwhelming danger the Void poses even to void-born creatures. It needs her sane so she can hunt and keep them both alive. But an unintended side effect of dulling her fear is that her ability to feel and express all of her emotions has been nearly erased.

This is why her lines sound.... dull. The most emotion she shows is happiness when she's eating-- eating honeyfruit to be exact. And that makes perfect sense. The sole desire of the creature on her skin is to hunt and eat in order to evolve. Even it would express delight at the extremely nutritious meal. Similarly, her anger is noticeable-- however slight-- when attacking another Voidborn. To her, they're evil. And to it, they're competition.

It's a miracle she still maintains her desire to protect humanity despite her situation doing everything it can to turn her into nothing more than a savage beast. The fact she's boring because of it is far more fascinating to me than how such a character is normally written. And there are two examples of the norm from this game: Swain overpowering the demon inside him to make use of its power while completely maintaining his sanity, the reverse of Warwick completely losing himself to his animalistic instincts-- his is even combined with the trope of keeping "just enough" humanity to only attack villains.

The third generic way to write such a character is to do exactly what some on the boards have suggested: have the character act as if torn between the two halves. Riot's actually done good ignoring this trope once already via Kayn. Whether he beats Rhaast or Rhaast beats him, the victor is still a villain. And while they're together the banter isn't torn, merely competitive.


What they've done with Kai'sa's personality is a unique and realistic approach to this particular kind of duality, and they know it. She isn't boring for the sake of being a dull character. She's overly calm for the sake of being one that stands out.


Important Edit: The first draft, I left out that I think the symbiont is specifically producing some kind of natural dampener to curb her fear. Such a thing wouldn't be strictly tied to a single emotion, so it would effect the way she feels and exhibits most emotion. Specifically when she's eating honeyfruit, the symbiont may halt production of the dampener because it is happy, allowing her to express her happiness as well. Likewise, when fighting a Voidborn competitor the symbiont may produce excessive amounts of adrenaline without halting production of the dampener, causing her to exhibit muted anger.

I know this is a little biology heavy for a game where most physical traits are explained with magic, but seeing as she's this game's take on an alien hybrid rather than a demonic, magical, or god-infused one, I believe this explanation fits best.

46 Comments

The Whamboozler7 votes

If this is the case, they should have dipped into that idea HARDER. She doesn't come off as touched in the head and emotionally muted. She comes off as disinterested and boring. I'd have been fine with her being the eerily calm and soft-spoken champion that does brutal things without any hint of emotion behind her actions.... but she doesn't come off like that to me. She comes off like an actress hired to play a role that she's lousy at, who is just dead reading her lines with poor attempts at sounding like a badass but no real passion to it. Of ALL the ways they could have taken her as a character, I fail to see why they ended up with such an uninteresting one. It wouldn't take much to convey what you're suggesting either.

For instance, instead of her line about eating that you mentioned... what about the line "Oh... mmm... real food." said in muted but wistful tone when she grabs honeyfruit. Or if you want to go the "emotionally deadened" kinda way, maybe just a deadpan. "Sustenance." or "Feed. We need to be strong." said to her suit. That last one not only implies her emotional state but mentions her suit as an entity. For something so important to her character it's not brought up much. It comes off less as an important thing that affects her character and more as a handwave for her powers and why she's not dead.

I think there is a very interesting character in there... but that they did a poor job of expressing it. Or that they just didn't think into her as deeply as you did, OP.

The Ecdysiast2 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Whamboozler,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=MYm9usno,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-02-22T03:08:54.733+0000)

If this is the case, they should have dipped into that idea HARDER. She doesn't come off as touched in the head and emotionally muted. She comes off as disinterested and boring. I'd have been fine with her being the eerily calm and soft-spoken champion that does brutal things without any hint of emotion behind her actions.... but she doesn't come off like that to me. She comes off like an actress hired to play a role that she's lousy at, who is just dead reading her lines with poor attempts at sounding like a badass but no real passion to it. Of ALL the ways they could have taken her as a character, I fail to see why they ended up with such an uninteresting one. It wouldn't take much to convey what you're suggesting either.

For instance, instead of her line about eating that you mentioned... what about the line "Oh... mmm... real food." said in muted but wistful tone when she grabs honeyfruit. Or if you want to go the "emotionally deadened" kinda way, maybe just a deadpan. "Sustenance." or "Feed. We need to be strong." said to her suit. That last one not only implies her emotional state but mentions her suit as an entity. For something so important to her character it's not brought up much. It comes off less as an important thing that affects her character and more as a handwave for her powers and why she's not dead.

I think there is a very interesting character in there... but that they did a poor job of expressing it. Or that they just didn't think into her as deeply as you did, OP.

They may dip into the idea more. This is only speculation until her lore is released, if it will answer my questions at all.

How many people do you know who are emotionally muted? I'd wager they sound an awful lot like a person who's disinterested. No reason to insult the voice actress for reading the lines as they told her to. They could've used anyone else or kept more emotional takes, but this is what they were going for.

As for the honeyfruit, it's got to do with something I didn't mention in the post. What would be an explanation for her lack of emotion is some kind of dampener being pumped into her by the symbiont. When she eats the fruit, it either stops production of that or even replaces it with some kind of mood-lifter, allowing her to express her true happiness for a moment. To say that line in a wistful or deadpan tone would take away from her true self.

The Whamboozler6 votes

All I'm saying is that she isn't coming off as a very strong character here so far... and even if her lore comes out and it's magnificent, it won't make her in-game VO sound and less lackluster. There are good ideas here but not very good execution, leading to a character that seems to ironically, lack character. She has no soul, so to speak.

Anything said to justify that is just that... justifications. Excuses. Attempts to make clear the mood or idea they were trying to when they made her, because her aesthetic and VO on it's own couldn't do that... and that is both unfortunate and disappointing. I highly doubt Riot WANTED her release to be met with cries of "she sounds boring" or "what a flat VO"... As much as I talk down on them, I doubt they WANTED her release to be lackluster or disappointing... but no amount of scrubbing her with nice, well-written bit of text lore will change those in-game assets.

If tomorrow Riot writes the best, most touching, tearjerker of a story about her horrible trials in the void, how it tore her down emotionally and how she sacrificed her body and mind to survive there... it might be the best thing ever written.... but it won't be the character you're playing when you log in and pick her. That performance and emotion and charm won't come through unless you sink so far into headcanon and ignoring her in-game lines and actions in favor of the lore bit. And that's a damned shame when a little more work or a more passionate take on her VO could have conveyed everything they needed to make her an interesting, awesome character without NEEDING to toss out some lore that people will use to try and excuse why she sounds so freaking boring in-game.

They've been on the ball lately with this stuff too, so it's especially upsetting that they dropped the ball so hard here. It's just my opinion and you're more than welcome to love the new champ and all that... but I find her just so.... soulless. Wasted potential. A pale shadow of what she might have been. I don't look at her and feel much of ANYTHING. She's not even deadpan and stoic enough to come off as the "I was forced to kill my humanity and emotions" sort. She just seems so generic. So milquetoast. Like they built the bones of a character and forgot to add any heart or passion to her.

But don't say that "it would take away from her true self" crap. You are making assumptions because you want to like her... not because the VO work so far did a good job conveying any of that. I'm certain that is the canon explanation Riot will go with... but even then, they damned sure didn't do a good idea of having that come across when you play her. She just seems bland and disinterested with a few lines about enjoying fruit. The character should come across well based on playing her... not because you red her backstory and had the creator explain who and what she is to you. A joke isn't funny if you have to explain it, and a character isn't much of a character if the author has to step in and TELL you what they're like and why instead of that coming across from seeing how they act.

Ifneth3 votes

That post made me feel more than her voice lines did.

The Ecdysiast2 votes

I'll just repeat what I already said. If they wanted it to sound different, they have their pick of voice actresses and takes of each line. She's not even one of the champs with 25 minutes of interactions.

Yeah, I'm trying to explain why she sounds the way she does. But it's not because I want to like her, it's because I like her subtlety.

The Whamboozler2 votes

No, I get it. They clearly WANTED her to sound the way she does.

What I'm saying is... that was the wrong call. It is not being seen the way Riot likely wanted it to be seen. A lot of people seem to find her boring and lackluster. They might have wanted her to be the way she is... but they didn't sell it well, so a lot of people aren't getting the same impression of her that Riot was going for. This is a failure on the part of the writer. If I write a character that I think is a dark, troubled badass torn apart by inner conflicts and the people who see him portrayed think he's a bland asshole that mopes a lot and they dislike watching.... I might prefer my opinion of him, but it doesn't mean my work is a good one because my vision of that character is better than the audience's. It means I failed as a writer to bring across the character I made properly.

And that is what I feel Riot did here.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Whamboozler,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=MYm9usno,comment-id=00000000000000010000,timestamp=2018-02-23T01:35:08.914+0000)

No, I get it. They clearly WANTED her to sound the way she does.

What I'm saying is... that was the wrong call. It is not being seen the way Riot likely wanted it to be seen. A lot of people seem to find her boring and lackluster. They might have wanted her to be the way she is... but they didn't sell it well, so a lot of people aren't getting the same impression of her that Riot was going for. This is a failure on the part of the writer. If I write a character that I think is a dark, troubled badass torn apart by inner conflicts and the people who see him portrayed think he's a bland asshole that mopes a lot and they dislike watching.... I might prefer my opinion of him, but it doesn't mean my work is a good one because my vision of that character is better than the audience's. It means I failed as a writer to bring across the character I made properly.

And that is what I feel Riot did here.

I think it's just a matter of the fact people are more vocal when they dislike something than when they don't care or like it. There were a few threads that like her voice, but they didn't get as much discussion. I think it's just people aren't giving it the kind of thought I've tried to explain here.

They want the generic character that they already have with Varus, Warwick, Swain, etc.

The Whamboozler1 votes

We seem to differ greatly in what we think of as "generic". I'd say she's no more original than Varus, Warwick or Swain. They're all just basic, recognizable tropes. The brooding vengeful guy. The feral beast barely remembering it's humanity. The.... Bloddborne warlock.

Well she's The Gyver. Nothing new under the sun, after all. And if you're saying she's a MORE interesting character because there is LESS passion and intensity to her performance, that's you're opinion man... but it's one I don't share. Tropes aren't bad and if you want to huff your own farts and act like the character is "just too subtle" and no one sees how deep she is but you... you're more than welcome to. But as a writer, that kinda shit is stuff you need to AVOID. You WANT people to understand your character and empathize with them, or at least find them interesting. I don't. I find her boring and wasted potential.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Whamboozler,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=MYm9usno,comment-id=0000000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2018-02-23T02:02:59.862+0000)

We seem to differ greatly in what we think of as "generic". I'd say she's no more original than Varus, Warwick or Swain. They're all just basic, recognizable tropes. The brooding vengeful guy. The feral beast barely remembering it's humanity. The.... Bloddborne warlock.

Well she's The Gyver. Nothing new under the sun, after all. And if you're saying she's a MORE interesting character because there is LESS passion and intensity to her performance, that's you're opinion man... but it's one I don't share. Tropes aren't bad and if you want to huff your own farts and act like the character is "just too subtle" and no one sees how deep she is but you... you're more than welcome to. But as a writer, that kinda shit is stuff you need to AVOID. You WANT people to understand your character and empathize with them, or at least find them interesting. I don't. I find her boring and wasted potential.

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/0xtmbbM1-kaisa-the-bioboosted-armor I made a post about that as soon as I saw her. More people should read/watch Guyver. But she's really not like Sho or Agito.

I'm not saying no one can see how deep she is. What I analyzed is not how the delivery of the lines reflects her personality, but how the delivery of the lines reflects her biology.

Her personality isn't what's supposed to make you feel for her. She doesn't feel sorry for herself, making it easier to feel sorry for her as a victim of circumstance. If you don't think her lore will make her a character you can like despite the fact her voice is the outcome of becoming the hardened hunter she is, then I don't really get why you care about her voice at all.

A character is not a few things they say, and if you're gonna dislike the character before her story is out and not factor that into your opinion, then that's your problem.

The Whamboozler1 votes

What I am saying is her voice work and aesthetic don't make me feel anything about her at all. She brings out no emotions in me at all, save disappointment. She's so undersold in demeanor and voice that and so normal-looking in appearance that she could be anyone from anywhere. She doesn't look or act like a girl who grew up in what is supposed to be the scariest, most alien place in the entire setting. She doesn't convey much of anything.

They needed to go bigger with her... really drive home her character. Drive home what happened to her and how it affected her, whether that be by making her a hardened badass, a grizzled hunter, a PTSD suffering wreck or a normal woman who went through hell is and just so glad to be home.

She's so underplayed that she comes off not as quiet and stoic but as boring and disinterested in her own backstory and goals. Disappointing as hell to me...

The Ecdysiast1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Whamboozler,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=MYm9usno,comment-id=000000000000000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-02-23T03:15:01.753+0000)

What I am saying is her voice work and aesthetic don't make me feel anything about her at all. She brings out no emotions in me at all, save disappointment. She's so undersold in demeanor and voice that and so normal-looking in appearance that she could be anyone from anywhere. She doesn't look or act like a girl who grew up in what is supposed to be the scariest, most alien place in the entire setting. She doesn't convey much of anything.

They needed to go bigger with her... really drive home her character. Drive home what happened to her and how it affected her, whether that be by making her a hardened badass, a grizzled hunter, a PTSD suffering wreck or a normal woman who went through hell is and just so glad to be home.

She's so underplayed that she comes off not as quiet and stoic but as boring and disinterested in her own backstory and goals. Disappointing as hell to me...

And what you're responding to is a comment where I answered already that her voice doesn't need to be what makes you like the character.

I don't see you complaining about Rammus.

The Whamboozler1 votes

I can complain about Rammus if you like... but Rammus having no lines is a JOKE. He's a flat character entirely defined by how much he is lacking in character. His sole defining trait is "the quiet, spiky thing".

I'd have assumed you wanted there to be a little more depth and soul to be put into the girl who survived the void, is related to Kassadin and who grafted a skinned/live voidling to herself to make herself a badass alien hunter.

Voice work MATTERS. Imagine Darius but with the voice of the 16 year old kid that works at your local coffee shop. Funny? HELL YES. But it ruins the character's role as the brutal, intimidating general of one of the most brutal armies in the setting.

And if you cannot understand why that is... we have nothing more to say dude... because it would be obvious from that point that you're full of shit and just being contrary because you want to be... not because you feel your opinion of position has merit and can be defended.

FCJAAAAGOOOO6 votes

That actually would make for a much more interesting character.

Since when has anything sane come from the void anyway?

Infernape4 votes

Isn't Vel'Koz pretty sane by Void standards?

FCJAAAAGOOOO1 votes

You see the fact that the Void has standards raises some flags...

50000000000000001 votes

I'd argue that Cho'Gath is also sane.

Papa Andrei5 votes

I don't think a lack of empathy and complete psychopathic personality is sane.

AlienPrimate5 votes

Do you have empathy for insects? Vel'Koz isn't human therefor it wouldn't be unnatural for him to seek out and destroy humans. If there were a form of insect that can boost your IQ by eating it, would you not seek it out?

SpecterVonBaren2 votes

Insanity is usually defined as extreme irrationality. While Vel'Koz comes across as amoral and cold, he is certainly not irrational.

xelaker3 votes

gentleman cho

The Ecdysiast5 votes

{quoted}

That actually would make for a much more interesting character.

Since when has anything sane come from the void anyway?

I see others responding to you, and I'd ask the opposite: When has anything insane come from the Void?

I'm arguing that Kai'sa's sanity is one of the features that allowed her to escape. Every single other Voidborn is also completely sane, albeit they have their own evil-from-the-enemy's-perspective agendas. Kog'maw is stupid, but not insane. As for Malzahar, whom people like to point to as the token crazy Void guy, he's not actually insane either. With the same view of what is to come that Kassadin was given which caused him to take up arms against the Void, Malzahar merely chose the other option: join it. That's not insanity, that's a rational decision when presented with a powerful enemy. It's the same reason people choose to join dictators; following the strong is survival instinct.

Papa Andrei5 votes

Malzahar barely even saw the void and his mind was basically taken over by the Void and he went complete insane and irrational. He is basically the Saruman of the League. Kassadin is sane enough, but he prepared for years and years to face the Void. Also any voidborn are excluded as if you are born into a dimension like that, the things seem pretty normal, and the regular world seems odd.

The Ecdysiast5 votes

[{quoted}](name=Papa Andrei,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=MYm9usno,comment-id=000200020000,timestamp=2018-02-22T09:42:24.013+0000)

Malzahar barely even saw the void and his mind was basically taken over by the Void and he went complete insane and irrational. He is basically the Saruman of the League. Kassadin is sane enough, but he prepared for years and years to face the Void. Also any voidborn are excluded as if you are born into a dimension like that, the things seem pretty normal, and the regular world seems odd.

There is nothing irrational about Malzahar's decision. It may have been influenced heavily by fear, but so was Kassadin's. Kassadin picked the option to fight while Malzahar chose to kneel. When faced with an extremely powerful enemy, many people will choose to be subservient.

There's nothing in Malzahar's current lore or any of his lines to imply he's not of sound mind. He may be brainwashed in a way, but only inasmuch as any religious fanatic is brainwashed.

TheMoralSupport3 votes

The powerful lead. And to that end it's only Malzahar and Kassadin's voices that are distorted, their minds have remained largely intact.

What about the corrupted merman in the Nami comic? He barely got a glimpse of the void, yet he got totally twisted. One could argue that Kassadin had a mind strong enough to resist the temptation, in comparison to the merman at least, but I'm sure a little girl (Kai´sa) wouldn't have the same mental capability as Kassadin.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

{quoted}

What about the corrupted merman in the Nami comic? He barely got a glimpse of the void, yet he got totally twisted. One could argue that Kassadin had a mind strong enough to resist the temptation, in comparison to the merman at least, but I'm sure a little girl (Kai´sa) wouldn't have the same mental capability as Kassadin.

Do I need to quote the rest of the post or do you plan on reading it? I explained exactly why it would be that she doesn't have or need that capability because of the suit.

Lajinn52 votes

To be honest a young child would probably have better chances of not going insane than an adult. In lovecraftian fashion its how wrong compared to our world the things they see are that causes people's sanity to slip. A child would probably have far less rigid ideas about what is horrendous and what is normal, their world-view is less solid.

Melledoneus3 votes

Nice analysis!

If you'd like, I can change the title if you have regrets about it.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

{quoted}

Nice analysis!

If you'd like, I can change the title if you have regrets about it.

Thanks! And, yeah, that'd be cool. Could you make it, "Why Kai'sa is not insane."

There are even a few comments from people who read the title without reading the post and thought I wanted her to be crazy, like some of the other threads. This title was supposed to be a joke about them, but backfired. lol

Melledoneus1 votes

Gotcha covered. [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

midnight oil243 votes

This is a pretty awesome writeup. I like the suggestions you have on a lot of the things about her, and it was great to see someone else who actually looked at what's been revealed of the new Void rather than just expecting it to be unchanged visually and thematically.

Your mentioning how she isn't torn between the two sides reminds me of a theory I have: she may hate the voidborn, but still desire to live in the void itself. The important distinction is not hating the place, but hating those within it. It's entirely possible that while she's glad to be back in Runeterra now, after a period of time she'd begin to freak out because she's so used to having to be on her toes all the time in the Void and it's the only place she feels like she knows who she is. It could make for an interesting dynamic where she simultaneously wants to stop the void invasion but still wants to eventually return to the Void. She's not siding with it, it's just where she knows who she is. Maybe I'm just rambling.

The Whamboozler1 votes

Good interpretation... but the issue isn't that there couldn't be a good character here, but that Riot did a shitty job of conveying it. She's kinda bland enough at the moment that you can say almost anything about her and it won't really run counter to what they put out about her.

I'll try. Her bio suit is actually the void's version of a big, cuddly kitten... loving nothing more than hugging people and petting them and helping them survive in the void by giving them boss super powers to fend off the monsters there. There are actually hundreds of these things in the void, all waiting for the day they can join with humans and kill off all the void spawn and make a magical rainbow city in the clouds together. Absurd? Well, yeah. But it doesn't really contradict anything she says or does. She's so optimistic because she knows that the army of void kittens are going to succeed... but she's kinda mellow because she thinks the whole thing sounds a bit too touchy-feely for her. Boom. It's canon now.

At the end of the day, they just REALLY could have done a better job conveying her as a character with her VO. Better lines. Better delivery. It wouldn't have taken much. The people who want to like her will... the people who want to feel she's a well-writen character will. But I think they could have done much, much better to make her feel interesting.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

[{quoted}](name=midnight oil24,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=MYm9usno,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2018-02-22T23:05:23.124+0000)

This is a pretty awesome writeup. I like the suggestions you have on a lot of the things about her, and it was great to see someone else who actually looked at what's been revealed of the new Void rather than just expecting it to be unchanged visually and thematically.

Your mentioning how she isn't torn between the two sides reminds me of a theory I have: she may hate the voidborn, but still desire to live in the void itself. The important distinction is not hating the place, but hating those within it. It's entirely possible that while she's glad to be back in Runeterra now, after a period of time she'd begin to freak out because she's so used to having to be on her toes all the time in the Void and it's the only place she feels like she knows who she is. It could make for an interesting dynamic where she simultaneously wants to stop the void invasion but still wants to eventually return to the Void. She's not siding with it, it's just where she knows who she is. Maybe I'm just rambling.

I agree with you, but what's good for her is that there's constantly a war going on somewhere on Runeterra. She can always be fighting even if she has to adjust from hunting.

When the Void has been defeated, the Vastaya have been appeased, the Isles have been lifted of their curse, Ryze has recovered every rune, etc., etc.-- that is, when humanity itself is no longer at risk, she'll become the enemy. But she'd probably be long dead by then and/or the story is never going to get that far as long as the game is continuously updated.

midnight oil241 votes

I think my idea is less that she wants to fight for the Void and more that the constant need for survival would be so ingrained into her personality by this point (which it sort of is, I think) that she'd eventually feel the need to return. Maybe Runeterra itself would feel too alien for her, or maybe once the dust settles from the fight people begin treating her poorly due to her symbiote. All sorts of things could go wrong for her in Runeterra that I feel like she'd inevitably return to the only place she's really known. Again, it's all just a theory, but I feel like just a good fight isn't all she would need, I feel like if I had spent most of my life fighting for survival in an alien world and that was all I knew I'd have a much harder time adjusting to Runeterran society than I would just going back to the Void once the whole issue was over.

Basically, I think she might like the void but not so much what it wants to do to Runeterra, and eventually she might feel like it's the only place she belongs.

(Side note: my only gripe about her design is that you'd think that even if she lived in the desert for a time before being lost to the Void, living in what appears to be a clouded-over wasteland would have left her a lot paler than she is. But that's just a minor gripe, I still love her design and character).

The Ecdysiast1 votes

[{quoted}](name=midnight oil24,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=MYm9usno,comment-id=000800010000,timestamp=2018-02-23T01:53:06.789+0000)

I think my idea is less that she wants to fight for the Void and more that the constant need for survival would be so ingrained into her personality by this point (which it sort of is, I think) that she'd eventually feel the need to return. Maybe Runeterra itself would feel too alien for her, or maybe once the dust settles from the fight people begin treating her poorly due to her symbiote. All sorts of things could go wrong for her in Runeterra that I feel like she'd inevitably return to the only place she's really known. Again, it's all just a theory, but I feel like just a good fight isn't all she would need, I feel like if I had spent most of my life fighting for survival in an alien world and that was all I knew I'd have a much harder time adjusting to Runeterran society than I would just going back to the Void once the whole issue was over.

Basically, I think she might like the void but not so much what it wants to do to Runeterra, and eventually she might feel like it's the only place she belongs.

(Side note: my only gripe about her design is that you'd think that even if she lived in the desert for a time before being lost to the Void, living in what appears to be a clouded-over wasteland would have left her a lot paler than she is. But that's just a minor gripe, I still love her design and character).

I mean I think the way that'd go is that she feels the need to be fighting, and I assumed that if the Void were defeated then even the rift at Icathia would be closed off. Hence I think she would become a villain if returning to the Void isn't an option.

As for her skin, I assume she's the same race as Taliyah. They're dark-skinned, not just tan. Comparing the two, she actually is quite pale for that race.

midnight oil241 votes

You may have a point, I just assumed she wasn't from there originally because Kassadin's short bio says that he wasn't originally from Icathia, but rather settled with the nomad tribes of shurima to live in anonymity. I don't think you'd move back in with your people if you wanted to avoid publicity.

Maybe she'd go back if there was a bit of time before the rift closed, or maybe you're right. It's still just speculation at this point, but I like that we can have these discussions.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

[{quoted}](name=midnight oil24,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=MYm9usno,comment-id=00080001000000000000,timestamp=2018-02-23T02:06:59.143+0000)

You may have a point, I just assumed she wasn't from there originally because Kassadin's short bio says that he wasn't originally from Icathia, but rather settled with the nomad tribes of shurima to live in anonymity. I don't think you'd move back in with your people if you wanted to avoid publicity.

Maybe she'd go back if there was a bit of time before the rift closed, or maybe you're right. It's still just speculation at this point, but I like that we can have these discussions.

Well, I don't think anyone is from Icathia besides Kog'maw and Rek'sai. But Kassadin and his family are definitely of the people who live in the Shuriman desert.

She may also fall in love. And tied to my biological explanation for her emotional state, it'd be driven mostly by the suit wanting to reproduce rather than her feelings.

midnight oil241 votes

I mean, Jax and Zilean are from Icathia.

Would she fall in love with a voidborn or a human? Because I get the feeling that the suit wouldn't alter her biology while still keeping lady parts. Hell, we don't even know how voidborn are made, but I have a feeling it involves either corruption or using those "mountainous flesh-forges" brought up in the universe page. Void creatures seem too uniform yet also too varied to reproduce naturally, especially given their longevity. I mean, Rek'sai has been on Runeterra for countless years, who knows how long these things live? I don't think we should apply human biology to incredibly alien creatures that don't even follow the same biological rules we do. I mean, Kha'zix can evolve without undergoing natural selection and Cho'gath is able to convert matter to an entirely different material, these things aren't even close to us or other animals in terms of how they think. We shouldn't apply our standards of reproduction to creatures that flip off the rules of nature before kicking the square cube law in the face and spitting on it. We'd need more information.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

[{quoted}](name=midnight oil24,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=MYm9usno,comment-id=0008000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-02-23T03:45:03.850+0000)

I mean, Jax and Zilean are from Icathia.

Would she fall in love with a voidborn or a human? Because I get the feeling that the suit wouldn't alter her biology while still keeping lady parts. Hell, we don't even know how voidborn are made, but I have a feeling it involves either corruption or using those "mountainous flesh-forges" brought up in the universe page. Void creatures seem too uniform yet also too varied to reproduce naturally, especially given their longevity. I mean, Rek'sai has been on Runeterra for countless years, who knows how long these things live? I don't think we should apply human biology to incredibly alien creatures that don't even follow the same biological rules we do. I mean, Kha'zix can evolve without undergoing natural selection and Cho'gath is able to convert matter to an entirely different material, these things aren't even close to us or other animals in terms of how they think. We shouldn't apply our standards of reproduction to creatures that flip off the rules of nature before kicking the square cube law in the face and spitting on it. We'd need more information.

I assumed her lady parts are the same, considering it did allow her to grow breasts. I doubt it's changing her anatomy aside from the additions made for hunting. Or who knows, maybe she can't have periods.

Queenpin2 votes

Commening because there is no follow thread option (to my knowledge).

ISOzHell1 votes

[deleted]

The Ecdysiast5 votes

{quoted}

Anyone who says cray cray is an idiot. That is all.

I was afraid some people would come and not actually read the post I worked really hard on because I decided to make the title silly. Please do read it, I'm sure you'd enjoy the content.

rtbf2256182411 votes

Wait, her suit is a creature?

To be honest, if i had to be stuck to her body, covering her, i wouldn't mind either.

ForgottenLuck

Nah, I think she is good as she is

The Ecdysiast3 votes

{quoted}

Nah, I think she is good as she is

This whole post is about why I think she's good as she is.

ForgottenLuck1 votes

Ah my apologies then for I was an idiot and didn't read it, but I have seen many posts in the internet attacking her and I was getting tired of both reading them and having to explain why I did, I was both lazy and stupid, and have now read the post and agree heartily with you.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

{quoted}

Ah my apologies then for I was an idiot and didn't read it, but I have seen many posts in the internet attacking her and I was getting tired of both reading them and having to explain why I did, I was both lazy and stupid, and have now read the post and agree heartily with you.

I'm at fault too, for the bad title. lol

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